IBM T22 CMOS Battery Connector

wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2013 10:13:47 PM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:
wrote:

I was given an IBM T22 laptop about 4-1/2 years ago and it has been

gathering dust ever since.



I took it out and powered on, but there is a password set and so I



Do you mean that the BIOS has a password or that the OperatingSystem
has a

password ?

I'm guessing the BIOS.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

So what error report do you get when you turn it on, do you perhaps get a
blank screen or a screen with a single '-' cursor flashing in the top-left,
or;
Do you get this screen;
https://www.dropbox.com/home?select=...t=DCP00610.JPG

I have just been messing with mine and the CPU-fan is now working, I am
running on AC (Mains).
I have disconnected the CMOS-battery to see if it still boots and it does
and I get the above Screen.
If I press F1 to go into the BIOS, it complains but goes into the BIOS.

Patrick wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2013 10:13:47 PM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:
wrote:

I was given an IBM T22 laptop about 4-1/2 years ago and it has been

gathering dust ever since.



I took it out and powered on, but there is a password set and so I



Do you mean that the BIOS has a password or that the OperatingSystem
has a

password ?

I'm guessing the BIOS.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

So what error report do you get when you turn it on, do you perhaps
get a blank screen or a screen with a single '-' cursor flashing in
the top-left, or;
Do you get this screen;

Sorry, I gave a wrong link, heres the right one !
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tp845a98m...DCP00610.JPG?m



I have just been messing with mine and the CPU-fan is now working, I
am running on AC (Mains).
I have disconnected the CMOS-battery to see if it still boots and it
does and I get the above Screen.
If I press F1 to go into the BIOS, it complains but goes into the
BIOS.

wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2013 9:42:46 PM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:
Patrick wrote:

wrote:

I was given an IBM T22 laptop about 4-1/2 years ago and it has been

gathering dust ever since.



I took it out and powered on, but there is a password set and so I

decided to open it up and disconnect the main and back-up batteries

following the instructions on page 60, 61, and 62 of the ThinkPad

Computer Hardware Maintenance Manual PDF.

(http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub...f/62p9631.pdf).



After wiggling and pulling for 15 minutes the black ground wire
broke

loose from the connector.

(http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...s79b3fee3.jpg).



So even though it wasn't mentioned in that battery removal section
I

guess that I should have found a way to take the laptop apart
further

beforehand.



Can anyone tell me if the battery/holder/connector is replaceable?



Thanks.



Darren Harris

Staten Island, New York.



I've got a T22 (fan not working), anyway I have replaced the CMOS

battery. The battery comes with a lead and the plug on the end.

Here are some pictures of said.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vvvyaaiqjmctvjv/SppCt61_Dq?m



I'll have a look to see if I can recall where I bought the new

battery-with-lead, think it was only a couple of ? on ebay.



Heres a link to ebay (USA) to showing the prices (in diddly-dollars)


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40

http://preview.tinyurl.com/bszv3gs

Thanks.

Now all I have to do if hope enough of the laptop comes apart so I
can get to that connector when I take out all the screws in the
bottom.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

The CMOS-battery in it's holder is supposed to just push-on, however it
actually consists of the plug just hanging out the end of the holder so it
can be quite difficult to get-in (not to mention getting it out).

So if you are wanting (or needing) to be able to see what you are doing,
then see page 88 (94/182) of 62p9631.pdf (your referenced pdf).

On Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:37:46 AM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:
Patrick wrote:

wrote:

On Monday, March 18, 2013 10:13:47 PM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:

wrote:



I was given an IBM T22 laptop about 4-1/2 years ago and it has been



gathering dust ever since.







I took it out and powered on, but there is a password set and so I







Do you mean that the BIOS has a password or that the OperatingSystem

has a



password ?



I'm guessing the BIOS.



Darren Harris

Staten Island, New York.



So what error report do you get when you turn it on, do you perhaps

get a blank screen or a screen with a single '-' cursor flashing in

the top-left, or;

Do you get this screen;



Sorry, I gave a wrong link, heres the right one !

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tp845a98m...DCP00610.JPG?m







I have just been messing with mine and the CPU-fan is now working, I

am running on AC (Mains).

I have disconnected the CMOS-battery to see if it still boots and it

does and I get the above Screen.

If I press F1 to go into the BIOS, it complains but goes into the

BIOS.

Yes. I get that screen.

I decided to pull some more and this time the connector came out with the red wire.

I put the main battery back in and powered up. But for some reason I still need a password regardless of whether I wait, press F1 or F12.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps9303f75f.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psd628a163.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psd152c60c.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psdeb9a7f6.jpg

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

wrote:
On Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:37:46 AM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:
Patrick wrote:

wrote:

On Monday, March 18, 2013 10:13:47 PM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:

wrote:



I was given an IBM T22 laptop about 4-1/2 years ago and it has
been



gathering dust ever since.







I took it out and powered on, but there is a password set and so
I







Do you mean that the BIOS has a password or that the
OperatingSystem

has a



password ?



I'm guessing the BIOS.



Darren Harris

Staten Island, New York.



So what error report do you get when you turn it on, do you perhaps

get a blank screen or a screen with a single '-' cursor flashing in

the top-left, or;

Do you get this screen;



Sorry, I gave a wrong link, heres the right one !

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tp845a98m...DCP00610.JPG?m







I have just been messing with mine and the CPU-fan is now working, I

am running on AC (Mains).

I have disconnected the CMOS-battery to see if it still boots and it

does and I get the above Screen.

If I press F1 to go into the BIOS, it complains but goes into the

BIOS.

Yes. I get that screen.

I decided to pull some more and this time the connector came out with
the red wire.

I put the main battery back in and powered up. But for some reason I
still need a password regardless of whether I wait, press F1 or F12.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps9303f75f.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psd628a163.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psd152c60c.jpg

Looks bad, apparently if it's a 'Supervisor Password' the only option is the
right PW or a new Mobo.
Heres a link to a 'Lenova' T2X forum anyway;
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=28

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psdeb9a7f6.jpg

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

The connector is kind of a standard Molex for use on batteries for some
mobile phones. A phone store could probably match up a battery with the
same connector and pigtail.

I've put shrink tube over a battery then forced bare wire under it. That
is enough contact to feed the clock. Just made sure that nothing would
short.

Patrick wrote:
wrote:
On Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:37:46 AM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:
Patrick wrote:

wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2013 10:13:47 PM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:
wrote:
I was given an IBM T22 laptop about 4-1/2 years ago and it has
been
gathering dust ever since.
I took it out and powered on, but there is a password set and so
I
Do you mean that the BIOS has a password or that the
OperatingSystem
has a
password ?
I'm guessing the BIOS.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
So what error report do you get when you turn it on, do you perhaps
get a blank screen or a screen with a single '-' cursor flashing in
the top-left, or;
Do you get this screen;


Sorry, I gave a wrong link, heres the right one !

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tp845a98m...DCP00610.JPG?m





I have just been messing with mine and the CPU-fan is now working, I
am running on AC (Mains).
I have disconnected the CMOS-battery to see if it still boots and it
does and I get the above Screen.
If I press F1 to go into the BIOS, it complains but goes into the
BIOS.
Yes. I get that screen.

I decided to pull some more and this time the connector came out with
the red wire.

I put the main battery back in and powered up. But for some reason I
still need a password regardless of whether I wait, press F1 or F12.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps9303f75f.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psd628a163.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psd152c60c.jpg

Looks bad, apparently if it's a 'Supervisor Password' the only option is the
right PW or a new Mobo.
Heres a link to a 'Lenova' T2X forum anyway;
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=28

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psdeb9a7f6.jpg
Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

There are two kinds of hardware implementations.

1) Trivial kind. Both passwords are stored in CMOS RAM. Pull
the battery, and "poof!", no more password. Low security
computers use this method. I like this implementation,
because the user is not lulled into a false sense of security.

2) Business people expect high security ( :-) ) computers.
For this purpose, some of the business laptops, use a
separate 2K EEPROM to hold the password. You can pull
the CMOS battery all you want, and you aren't going to
erase that one. For the wily hacker, this is no problem at all.
For the end user, it's a disaster.

So that's the challenge you could be facing, depending
on the situation. The password can be hiding in an EEPROM.

And when hacking computers like that, remember that some
of them are wired to self-destruct. For example, some
computer hard drives, the contents are encrypted, and
are *relying* on TPM information to work properly.
If, in your ultimate cleverness, you decide to reset the TPM,
you could forever lose access to the encrypted information.
So some of the implementations in modern computers, if you
"reset them", it could lead to data loss. (The owner of the
computer, was probably too stupid to make the "key disk" to
recover the data in an emergency. Usually situations like that,
the manufacturer provides a second method so there won't be
data loss. You have to prepare the recovery floppy or USB
key in advance.)

There are even a few computers, where you can't add hard drives
to the computer, without the drive being "branded". So something
is written to the disk, to make it "acceptable" to the computer.
If the end-user goes to Walmart and buys a hard drive, they
discover it just won't work.

While for the most part, modern computers are "open" systems,
you will occasionally run into surprises. And the "I can't
erase the password" problem, is one of the more common
surprises. And a business-class laptop, is more likely
to use the EEPROM method. All my computers I have here,
are the low security kind - pulling the battery, is the
only procedure I need.

Paul

On Friday, March 22, 2013 3:24:33 AM UTC-4, Paul wrote:
Patrick wrote:

wrote:

On Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:37:46 AM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:

Patrick wrote:



wrote:

On Monday, March 18, 2013 10:13:47 PM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:

wrote:

I was given an IBM T22 laptop about 4-1/2 years ago and it has

been

gathering dust ever since.

I took it out and powered on, but there is a password set and so

I

Do you mean that the BIOS has a password or that the

OperatingSystem

has a

password ?

I'm guessing the BIOS.

Darren Harris

Staten Island, New York.

So what error report do you get when you turn it on, do you perhaps

get a blank screen or a screen with a single '-' cursor flashing in

the top-left, or;

Do you get this screen;





Sorry, I gave a wrong link, heres the right one !



https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tp845a98m...DCP00610.JPG?m











I have just been messing with mine and the CPU-fan is now working, I

am running on AC (Mains).

I have disconnected the CMOS-battery to see if it still boots and it

does and I get the above Screen.

If I press F1 to go into the BIOS, it complains but goes into the

BIOS.

Yes. I get that screen.



I decided to pull some more and this time the connector came out with

the red wire.



I put the main battery back in and powered up. But for some reason I

still need a password regardless of whether I wait, press F1 or F12.



http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps9303f75f.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psd628a163.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psd152c60c.jpg



Looks bad, apparently if it's a 'Supervisor Password' the only option is the

right PW or a new Mobo.

Heres a link to a 'Lenova' T2X forum anyway;

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=28



http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psdeb9a7f6.jpg

Thanks.



Darren Harris

Staten Island, New York.



There are two kinds of hardware implementations.



1) Trivial kind. Both passwords are stored in CMOS RAM. Pull

the battery, and "poof!", no more password. Low security

computers use this method. I like this implementation,

because the user is not lulled into a false sense of security.



2) Business people expect high security ( :-) ) computers.

For this purpose, some of the business laptops, use a

separate 2K EEPROM to hold the password. You can pull

the CMOS battery all you want, and you aren't going to

erase that one. For the wily hacker, this is no problem at all.

For the end user, it's a disaster.



So that's the challenge you could be facing, depending

on the situation. The password can be hiding in an EEPROM.



And when hacking computers like that, remember that some

of them are wired to self-destruct. For example, some

computer hard drives, the contents are encrypted, and

are *relying* on TPM information to work properly.

If, in your ultimate cleverness, you decide to reset the TPM,

you could forever lose access to the encrypted information.

So some of the implementations in modern computers, if you

"reset them", it could lead to data loss. (The owner of the

computer, was probably too stupid to make the "key disk" to

recover the data in an emergency. Usually situations like that,

the manufacturer provides a second method so there won't be

data loss. You have to prepare the recovery floppy or USB

key in advance.)



There are even a few computers, where you can't add hard drives

to the computer, without the drive being "branded". So something

is written to the disk, to make it "acceptable" to the computer.

If the end-user goes to Walmart and buys a hard drive, they

discover it just won't work.



While for the most part, modern computers are "open" systems,

you will occasionally run into surprises. And the "I can't

erase the password" problem, is one of the more common

surprises. And a business-class laptop, is more likely

to use the EEPROM method. All my computers I have here,

are the low security kind - pulling the battery, is the

only procedure I need.



Paul

Can EPROMS be de-soldered form the PCB? Or the data intentionally overwritten? (Provided that is my problem). I'd of course have to locate the chip.

And while we're on the subject of Lenovo PCs, I'll check out that forum Patrick mentioned.

BTW. I have some disks. Does anyone know what PC uses these?:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps1c781109.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psdcfac635.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps2d00385b.jpg

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

wrote:
On Friday, March 22, 2013 3:24:33 AM UTC-4, Paul wrote:
Patrick wrote:

wrote:
On Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:37:46 AM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:
Patrick wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2013 10:13:47 PM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:
wrote:
I was given an IBM T22 laptop about 4-1/2 years ago and it has
been
gathering dust ever since.
I took it out and powered on, but there is a password set and so
I
Do you mean that the BIOS has a password or that the
OperatingSystem
has a
password ?
I'm guessing the BIOS.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
So what error report do you get when you turn it on, do you perhaps
get a blank screen or a screen with a single '-' cursor flashing in
the top-left, or;
Do you get this screen;
Sorry, I gave a wrong link, heres the right one !
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tp845a98m...DCP00610.JPG?m
I have just been messing with mine and the CPU-fan is now working, I
am running on AC (Mains).
I have disconnected the CMOS-battery to see if it still boots and it
does and I get the above Screen.
If I press F1 to go into the BIOS, it complains but goes into the
BIOS.
Yes. I get that screen.
I decided to pull some more and this time the connector came out with
the red wire.
I put the main battery back in and powered up. But for some reason I
still need a password regardless of whether I wait, press F1 or F12.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps9303f75f.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psd628a163.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psd152c60c.jpg
Looks bad, apparently if it's a 'Supervisor Password' the only option is the
right PW or a new Mobo.
Heres a link to a 'Lenova' T2X forum anyway;
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=28
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psdeb9a7f6.jpg
Thanks.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


There are two kinds of hardware implementations.



1) Trivial kind. Both passwords are stored in CMOS RAM. Pull

the battery, and "poof!", no more password. Low security

computers use this method. I like this implementation,

because the user is not lulled into a false sense of security.



2) Business people expect high security ( :-) ) computers.

For this purpose, some of the business laptops, use a

separate 2K EEPROM to hold the password. You can pull

the CMOS battery all you want, and you aren't going to

erase that one. For the wily hacker, this is no problem at all.

For the end user, it's a disaster.



So that's the challenge you could be facing, depending

on the situation. The password can be hiding in an EEPROM.



And when hacking computers like that, remember that some

of them are wired to self-destruct. For example, some

computer hard drives, the contents are encrypted, and

are *relying* on TPM information to work properly.

If, in your ultimate cleverness, you decide to reset the TPM,

you could forever lose access to the encrypted information.

So some of the implementations in modern computers, if you

"reset them", it could lead to data loss. (The owner of the

computer, was probably too stupid to make the "key disk" to

recover the data in an emergency. Usually situations like that,

the manufacturer provides a second method so there won't be

data loss. You have to prepare the recovery floppy or USB

key in advance.)



There are even a few computers, where you can't add hard drives

to the computer, without the drive being "branded". So something

is written to the disk, to make it "acceptable" to the computer.

If the end-user goes to Walmart and buys a hard drive, they

discover it just won't work.



While for the most part, modern computers are "open" systems,

you will occasionally run into surprises. And the "I can't

erase the password" problem, is one of the more common

surprises. And a business-class laptop, is more likely

to use the EEPROM method. All my computers I have here,

are the low security kind - pulling the battery, is the

only procedure I need.



Paul

Can EPROMS be de-soldered form the PCB? Or the data intentionally overwritten? (Provided that is my problem). I'd of course have to locate the chip.

And while we're on the subject of Lenovo PCs, I'll check out that forum Patrick mentioned.

BTW. I have some disks. Does anyone know what PC uses these?:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps1c781109.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psdcfac635.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps2d00385b.jpg

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Discs like that, could be used on more than one model of computer.

The software is activated by the presence of "SLIC" info in the
Lenovo BIOS. The idea is, if I try to install that disc on my
Asus motherboard, then the OS shouldn't activate. Whereas, if
a Lenovo BIOS is present on the motherboard, the OS should be
activated immediately.

Whether that disc works on everything, may depend on drivers.
If the BIOS, IDE interfaces are set to Compatible or Enhanced,
then the default disk drivers may work immediately. And perhaps
you'd need to add video drivers, to make the installation complete
(if the computer is different than the one it was intended for).

If you were using a newer computer, with the interface jammed
into AHCI mode, then maybe it wouldn't boot after installation.

I've even heard of a few discs, older ones, where they work with
any motherboard (when really, they shouldn't).

Undoubtedly, someone out there knows all the ins and outs of those
things, where they'll work and won't work. If they're Lenovo
branded, then try them on a Lenovo computer.

See the "SLIC" section here for more details.
SLIC is for "branded OEM" discs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS#SLIC

Paul

wrote:
On Friday, March 22, 2013 3:24:33 AM UTC-4, Paul wrote:
Patrick wrote:

wrote:

On Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:37:46 AM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:

Patrick wrote:



wrote:

On Monday, March 18, 2013 10:13:47 PM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:

wrote:

-
And while we're on the subject of Lenovo PCs, I'll check out that
forum Patrick mentioned.

BTW. I have some disks. Does anyone know what PC uses these?:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps1c781109.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psdcfac635.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps2d00385b.jpg


T22 page, worth a look !
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/guid...DocID=UM000457

A 'PDF' from above page;
http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub...df/01r8023.pdf