4.0Ghz P4 now officially cancelled

JK wrote:

[...]

The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
controllers are made by AMD though.

How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
much greater performance???????? And why is it important to upgrade
when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg.
Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????

Johannes H Andersen wrote:

JK wrote:

[...]

The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
controllers are made by AMD though.

How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
much greater performance????????

When the controller is on the cpu, it runs at the full speed of the cpu.
There isn't a much slower off chip front side bus to be a bottleneck.

And why is it important to upgrade
when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg.
Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????

There are those with 16 bit processors that still perform flawlessly,
although some people want to run the latest and highest performing
software, which in less than a year will probably be 64 bit software for
most applications.

JK wrote:


There are those with 16 bit processors that still perform flawlessly,
although some people want to run the latest and highest performing
software,



which in less than a year will probably be 64 bit software for
most applications.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Talk about Beachfront property!

How long did it take 16-bit to yield to 32-bit?....................

no, don't bother, I'll tell you, effectively TEN YEARS!!!!!!!

386-1986............................32 bit software showed up in 1996.

64-bitness will remain irrelivant WRT to the home user for another 8 yrs
or so. (using the Opteron initial release time).


and yes - I beleive this is a realistic timeframe for "Joe Ave" (i.e.
the mainstream).

Just as in the late 80's and early 90's (i.e. 16bit on a 32bit)
million of us will be using a 64-bit chip to run 32 bit software.


Now a 64-bit chip means nothing to me, and on board memory controller
which will let me run 32-bit/16-bit faster DOES MEAN SOMETHING.......in
the "here and now".

I'll buy for 64-bitness in the next decade - thanks.




--
http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml

http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm


As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged.
And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air
-- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75)

"It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who
were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out
whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president
in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
may say,"
Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense
Department Lawyer
Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo.

If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against
the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named
George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
vote for
the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the
Republican Party.
Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine

"But I believe in torture and I will torture you."
-An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
an Iraqi prisoner.

"My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
freedom of our country.
-Iraqi Mahdi fighter

"We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came.
One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried,
the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
-Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.

"the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
Zionists
and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
-Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister

"Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said."
Houston Chronicle 4/9/99

"Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to
destabilize their country."
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004

"The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major
incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized
to deal with this?'"
- Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference
on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.

"On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use
his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime
the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because
"diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor."
Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
Bergner,
Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had
Baghdad on their minds."
-philip (usenet)

"I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
-Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.

"I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up
and running
- to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
back, if I can put it that way,
or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they
are going to allow us to exercise
on their behalf and with their permission."
- Powell 4/27/04

"We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days."
On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
moments."
- Rumsfeld 4/6/04

"I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
of freedom."
~ Bush the Crusader


RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose?

BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.

RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do?

BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
do for the country.
See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
changing times
here in America, too., 2/8/04


"And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where
I'm coming from,
to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
president.
I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
war on my mind.
- pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04


"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that
based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
- Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03


"I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
Iraqis had nuclear weapons."
- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03


"I think in this case international law
stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
- Richard Perle


"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with
respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
conventional power against his neighbours."
- Colin Powell February 24 2001


"We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping
him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful."

"He threatens not the United States."

"But I also thought that we had pretty
much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."

'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying
"look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
- Colin Powell February 26 2001

"Johannes H Andersen" wrote in message
...


How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
much greater performance???????? And why is it important to upgrade
when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg.
Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????

As much as I don't like JK he does make a good point about integrated memory
controllers being a help (though not nessesarly that Intel *NEEDS* one to be
compitive). AMD's integrated memory controller has really done more to help
out the A64 than any other feature of the chip. There are many applications
in the world where the lower latency memory controller is a huge advantage,
and probably none where it is a diss-advantage.

Carlo

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:53:06 +0000, Johannes H Andersen wrote:



JK wrote:

[...]

The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
controllers are made by AMD though.

How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
much greater performance????????

Think latency. An integrated memory controller has two less I/O
crossings, *EACH WAY*. Clocks is clocks.

And why is it important to upgrade
when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
fast flawlessly since I build it in July??????

Is that a serious question? I'm not sure what this has to do with th
eprice of oats in China, but just to assue you that the world won't end
without your grace, my Opteron has been performing flawlessly since June.
;-)

Idle Temp 36 Deg. Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????

....and this has somehow *something* to do with performance? Wow, what
some people will do to convince themselves that they made the right
purchase. Good grief, don't apologize!

--
Keith

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:46:38 +0000, gaffo wrote:

JK wrote:


There are those with 16 bit processors that still perform flawlessly,
although some people want to run the latest and highest performing
software,



which in less than a year will probably be 64 bit software for
most applications.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Talk about Beachfront property!

64bit applications are *here*. Pretty much everything I run here is 64bit.

How long did it take 16-bit to yield to 32-bit?....................

Oh, you're talking about WinBlows! Oh, you'll be waiting another decade
for a usable OS. ;-)

no, don't bother, I'll tell you, effectively TEN YEARS!!!!!!!

FOr WinBlows, perhaps. The rest of the world is moving.

386-1986............................32 bit software showed up in 1996.

You're on drugs. OS/2 was 32 bit *long* before '96 and Linux is 64bit
*now*.

64-bitness will remain irrelivant WRT to the home user for another 8 yrs
or so. (using the Opteron initial release time).

What *are* you smoking? *another* 8 years? It'll be relevant in less
than two. ...not to mention that AMD64 does a rather nice 32bit, at a
small cost.

and yes - I beleive this is a realistic timeframe for "Joe Ave" (i.e.
the mainstream).

Ok, Joe Average will be happy with a P5 to download his spam. So? That's
not the mainstream either. Withing two years, I think gamers are going to
be 64b and mainstream (as in new) systems will be over 1GB (where 64bit
processors are really needed - assuming you believe in virtual memory)

Just as in the late 80's and early 90's (i.e. 16bit on a 32bit) million
of us will be using a 64-bit chip to run 32 bit software.

Some are running 64bit software now. Get with it man! ;-)

Now a 64-bit chip means nothing to me, and on board memory controller
which will let me run 32-bit/16-bit faster DOES MEAN SOMETHING.......in
the "here and now".

I'll buy for 64-bitness in the next decade - thanks.

If you are a serious user (note that I didn't see any reason to upgrade a
K6-III *until* AMD64 was reasonable), you'll be buying sooner than
that, IMO. The memory barrier is a serious one and the cost[*] of 64bit
is trivial.
[*] even if the price is a tad high right now.

--
Keith

"Yousuf Khan" wrote in message ...
AJ wrote:
Personally, if Northwoods go away and Prescott is the only Intel
choice, I'm gonna buy AMD. Secondly, if motherboards from Intel
become $120, I'll go third party there too. Enough of the gouging
already. "Innovation" where it is not necessary is not appreciated.

Not even sure why you would need to announce this, AMD and/or third-party motherboards should've always been on your radar,
even before now.

Historically, good integrated motherboards for AMD haven't been there.

AJ

"Johannes H Andersen" wrote in message ...


JK wrote:

[...]

The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
controllers are made by AMD though.

How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
much greater performance???????? And why is it important to upgrade
when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg.
Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????

On these cool fall days, (though I have the heat on in my home), my 2.4
Northwood idles at under 30 C. As I type this, it's at 28. I have a Zalman
7000 AlCu instead of the stock HSF though. Your 36 C idle temp sounds
high to me, but maybe your ambient is higher too.

AJ

"Ghostrider" wrote in message ...

AJ wrote:

It's sad how corps can get so caught up in their own BS that
they have no concept of what's important (incapable of any kind
of out-of-the-box thinking). Hopefully they'll be able to realize
their mistakes and produce consumer-driven products and maybe
even anticipate what is wanted before they get so far away from
the mark in the future.

Personally, if Northwoods go away and Prescott is the only Intel
choice, I'm gonna buy AMD. Secondly, if motherboards from Intel
become $120, I'll go third party there too. Enough of the gouging
already. "Innovation" where it is not necessary is not appreciated.

AJ

The consumer market has been slowing down in any event
and throwing more capital into the Pentium-4 makes little
or no sense at all. Of course, we all know that Intel has
its own version of the "skunk works" (or certainly can
afford to have one) and it would be interesting to see
what mature product might emerge from Intel's R&D after
2 or 3 years. With future business prospects being what
they currently are, the ability to continuously upgrade
has come to a screeching halt, anyway. "Innovate" may mean
changing directions or going down a different path.

I'm all set for the next few years with my Intel 865 MB and Northwood
combo. I like it. By the time I'm ready again for a new machine,
maybe they will have gone through all the interim models of boards
and processors and have something I'll want again.

AJ

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:53:06 GMT, Johannes H Andersen
wrote:
JK wrote:

[...]

The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
controllers are made by AMD though.

How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
much greater performance????????

The integrated memory controller reduces memory latency by roughly
20-30%. This is HUGE. Consider that processor speeds have increased
by two orders of magnitude since the 386 days, while memory bandwidth
has increased by well over one order of magnitude, but memory latency
has only dropped by about 50%. Even with the VERY large caches that
are becoming common on today's chips, memory latency is still a rather
important part of the equation.

This alone probably results in about a 10-15% improvement in system
performance over a (theoretical) otherwise identical processor with an
off-chip memory controller. I'm really not sure how much longer Intel
can go with an off-chip memory controller, they are pretty much the
ONLY company left that hasn't moved this on-chip (not counting the
grandfathered designs like SGI MIPS chips and HP PA-RISC).

And why is it important to upgrade
when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg.
Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????

Obviously there's absolutely no reason at all for you to upgrade a
system that you built 4 months ago. However, for someone like me who
built most of their system in early 2002, it's starting to get a bit
long in the tooth (woohoo for me though, I just ordered a newer
processor today!). Many others are running systems that are even
older and may be looking into upgrading. Despite popular belief, a
1.0GHz PIII does tend to feel a little bit sluggish these days once
you're used to much faster processors.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla underscore 20 at yahoo dot ca