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#361
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Why Pentium?
This troll apparently really does not know the difference between a
sleeve bearing and a fluid dynamic bearing. Path: newssvr13.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm04.news.prodigy. com!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!newscon 06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!border1.nntp.dca.g iganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local02.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.insightbb.com!news.insightbb.com.PO STED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:06:54 -0500 From: kony spam spam.com Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt. comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.computer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.ch ips Subject: Why Pentium? Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:08:42 -0400 Reply-To: spam spam.com Message-ID: 9ri2c29kns2rvi4ocrulmli1s5hdq1rkoe 4ax.com References: 4hb9hrF1qpn08U1 individual.net a361b21d9h02olr8bbispuosrh9jodrfim 4ax.com 4hbl1aF1qlql5U1 individual.net icq9b2ldci81q6es9jupvemokrrhprshee 4ax.com 4hkr8hF2bseU1 individual.net kHNvg.4362$oj5.1511399 news.siol.net Xns9806854A4F3580123456789 207.115.17.102 2jSvg.4371$oj5.1512740 news.siol.net Xns9806ABC3D3F3B0123456789 207.115.17.102 qod0c29i4eqs0t0gtffi4kei8orb2rvqma 4ax.com ME6wg.4402$oj5.1521099 news.siol.net Xns980799067A16D0123456789 207.115.17.102 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 92 NNTP-Posting-Host: 74.129.166.247 X-Trace: sv3-DOrT5fLIMg8VhVX/5z48WlVluskWMmFBnuGdH7+MP0bDpjUgdtm1oMeLXomCMG6pkH 0/uD2t3GcFAQ8!r38tJJtrTbKuBJZaQQt8IAuQvBByjuXI1KbQMU xOK56f8BXz1wAEQM2SZCsO8ttHs4bake4eTTJ1!Bi5fnB7VyT7 8Sg== X-Complaints-To: abuse insightbb.com X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse insightbb.com X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.32 Xref: prodigy.net alt.comp.hardwa314738 alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt:223712 alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:471606 alt.computer:270406 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips:460768 On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 20:02:34 GMT, John Doe jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote: Jure Sah admin thought-beacon.net wrote: kony pravi: On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:53:06 GMT, John Doe jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote: My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap fan, or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems started, or maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED. Whatever. Fluid bearing fans are usually very low quality junk. I second that. That makes two trolls with no citations. We aren't burdened with countering anyone's ignorance, it would never end. This is another example of common knowledge, that which any competent engineer or system integrator has know since the beginning and believe me, they'd love to shave some $ off the costs if there weren't the detractions, especially when sleeve bearing fans have significantly lower high pitched noise. So you can't be bothered to find any information yourself, only a product listing? Do you believe all product listings? How about a $15 600W PSU with one of those fluid dynamic blahblahblah in it, are those good too because they wrote some lofty specs? Sorry, there comes a point where you have to have some experience instead of just repeating marketing by gypsy companies selling PC parts they dont' even make. What might we Google for a citation? How about; http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...leeve+bearings VERY FIRST GOOGLE HIT, http://www.currentsolutions.com/know...sleevefans.htm excerpt: "The chart indicates that when temperatures ranged from 25 to 60 degrees C, ball-bearing fans on average outlasted sleeve-bearing fans by 50 percent. When temperatures exceeded 700 degrees C, ball-bearing fans ran for 45,000 hours, while sleeve-bearing fans became inoperable. Yet, when the ambient temperatures were relatively low, sleeve-bearing fans lasted as long as ball-bearing fans." Since any normal system will be in that 25-60C range, we can conclude this is one citation. SECOND HIT, http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=193 excerpts; "Ball bearings... most important for our situation - long life" "With proper lubrication sleeve bearings will provide performance and service on par with that of their ball bearing counterparts. If left alone for a long time, and run at higher temperatures they will fail before the ball bearings will." ------------------ So far we have the first two hits Google found. The trend continues with practically EVERY link that discusses both types. So it seems it is [entire world] vs [you] So tell us, is it you [the one who doesn't make fans, hasn't actually tested the fans you linked for they haven't even existed as long as their spec'd lifespan, and doesn't even use proper terms for sleeve bearing fans] that knows about fans, or it is major website reviewers, fan manufacturers themselves, engineers, and just about every possible 3rd party? Sorry but you are a lone advocate of them for lifespan improvement and have no evidence besides a line of text versus 'site after 'site after 'site. |
#362
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Why Pentium?
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:57:07 -0400, George Macdonald
wrote: On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:11:22 -0400, kony wrote: Hey Kony, since you seem to know so much about fans... what the hell is the deal with those chipset coolers that have flakey fans? Some of them spin at 7Krpm and last 6 months max. Is it even possible to make such small fans move enough air and still last? They're off-brand/low-quality, small diameter, thin, higher RPM... essentially all the things that make for shorter lifespan. It's possible to make higher quality small fans but it'd cost more. Even better would be reduction in necessary flow by having a better hunk of metal under the fan, combined with a 15-20mm thick fan of at least 50mm diameter. Manufacturers aren't interested in lifespan beyond the warranty period in most cases though, so the best course is to replace whole 'sink-fan assembly or relube the fan (if a sleeve bearing type) before it begins making noise so the bearingway isn't chewed up and enlarged (so then whatever lube is added, is even less likely to stay where it should. Also once a fan has worn some a thicker lube will help keep it in the bearing. They're usually "buried frame" type and easily replaced but impossible to find, even from distributors. I've been able to find a 45mm diameter "bury-frame" fan for my GPU cooler at Directron but the 30mm versions usually used on chipset coolers are just not available anywhere. Do you know why? Nope, beyond that the manufacturers of these low-end products don't want to offer only a fan, instead a more costly alternative. Any ideas on where I might find a "quality" version?... or do the mfrs prefer to sell with a hunk of metal for the extra $$? I'd just replace the whole 'sink, or in some cases you can put a normal full-framed fan on if you use longer screws. It's a bit more difficult if the video card doesnt' have clearance under it, but I always advise to leave an empty slot under the video card anyway so there's less heat buildup and/or better air intake-exhaust in cases where the card exhausts out the rear through the mounting slot bracket. Ultimately the best solution depends on available space and amount of heat that needs removed. I'd not try to use another recessed fan if there wasn't a space constraint requiring it. |
#363
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Why Pentium?
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:01:29 -0400, "hdrdtd"
wrote: A little over 17 years? that should be long enough.. It's not reliable. All of the known premiere fan manufacturers are more conservative with their ratings. So we'd be contrasting multi billion dollar fan manufacturers putting fans in mission critical systems from computers to airplanes to hospital equipment), and on the other hand a small PC manufacturer that doesn't make fans at all, merely gets them from a third party. Further, on the product page we see the following: "MTBF: 150,000 hours * 150,000 hours of MTBF is measured under the 25C (77F) ambient temperature. * MTBF of normal ball bearing Fan: 50,000 hours * MTBF of normal sleeve bearing Fan: 20,000 hours " These are clearly deceptive. 1) The MTBF is only at 25C and goes down quickly at higher temp. It's not hard at all to have a higher temp, 25C is about average room temp, not heated chassis air temp. 2) MTBF of a normal dual ball bearing fan is between 50-100K hours, so IF only one number is given it would be 75K. They fail to mention that as temp goes up and sleeve bearing (including S-FDB type) MTBF goes down quickly, ball bearing MTBF does not. In short, they're playing with the numbers to suggest the product is better than it is. Beware of companies that do this instead of providing ALL of the information. 3) Their picture of the bearing is quite telling. There's nothing special about it, it's merely a semi-sealed (until it starts wearing) bearing with a larger oil reservoir than some (again until it starts wearing, then there will be oil loss as with any other). Finally, a spec for MTBF for a bearing is only as good as the load on it! If you take a *good* bearing and put a poorly balanced fan assembly around it, or subject the force in another uneven fashion, that MTBF rating is shot_to_hell. |
#364
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Why Pentium?
A babbling troll who says that fluid dynamic bearings are the same
as sleeve bearings. Apparently the troll doesn't even know that modern high-performance hard drives are made with fluid dynamic bearings. Apparently this troll is just clueless. Path: newssvr12.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy. com!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!newscon 06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!border1.nntp.dca.g iganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local02.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.insightbb.com!news.insightbb.com.PO STED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:32:37 -0500 From: kony spam spam.com Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt. comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.computer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.ch ips Subject: Why Pentium? Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:33:31 -0400 Reply-To: spam spam.com Message-ID: t5o2c2hon06p7c4kkj8fsmqm0ov9neos3i 4ax.com References: 4hkr8hF2bseU1 individual.net kHNvg.4362$oj5.1511399 news.siol.net Xns9806854A4F3580123456789 207.115.17.102 2jSvg.4371$oj5.1512740 news.siol.net Xns9806ABC3D3F3B0123456789 207.115.17.102 qod0c29i4eqs0t0gtffi4kei8orb2rvqma 4ax.com Xns98073F2E715D30123456789 207.115.17.102 75k1c2d3k9r0k5g9hakhcgv4tn84udi8v3 4ax.com Xns980796E51DC2B0123456789 207.115.17.102 Xns9807A1DFF9CD10123456789 207.115.17.102 TMydnWvfHp6e3FzZnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d giganews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 49 NNTP-Posting-Host: 74.129.166.247 X-Trace: sv3-ITukhXd6bE60Un3fa/ZaT2qwBcN1FZfLdF9dN5WknLjqqOYAadDMAeLut8FzrXjSjNSc HfIY2LXPTV/!NGv8aHfQemL0mdLju7QNi+67nqXLR90ElyNJ6XojQjqvvVHK8 jHdmwjcp59KU2iKlaPU0gaMONZF!XV+U4RPWqlqtDw== X-Complaints-To: abuse insightbb.com X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse insightbb.com X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.32 Xref: prodigy.net alt.comp.hardwa314747 alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt:223716 alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:471613 alt.computer:270411 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips:460774 On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:01:29 -0400, "hdrdtd" hdrdtd comcast.net wrote: A little over 17 years? that should be long enough.. It's not reliable. All of the known premiere fan manufacturers are more conservative with their ratings. So we'd be contrasting multi billion dollar fan manufacturers putting fans in mission critical systems from computers to airplanes to hospital equipment), and on the other hand a small PC manufacturer that doesn't make fans at all, merely gets them from a third party. Further, on the product page we see the following: "MTBF: 150,000 hours * 150,000 hours of MTBF is measured under the 25C (77F) ambient temperature. * MTBF of normal ball bearing Fan: 50,000 hours * MTBF of normal sleeve bearing Fan: 20,000 hours " These are clearly deceptive. 1) The MTBF is only at 25C and goes down quickly at higher temp. It's not hard at all to have a higher temp, 25C is about average room temp, not heated chassis air temp. 2) MTBF of a normal dual ball bearing fan is between 50-100K hours, so IF only one number is given it would be 75K. They fail to mention that as temp goes up and sleeve bearing (including S-FDB type) MTBF goes down quickly, ball bearing MTBF does not. In short, they're playing with the numbers to suggest the product is better than it is. Beware of companies that do this instead of providing ALL of the information. 3) Their picture of the bearing is quite telling. There's nothing special about it, it's merely a semi-sealed (until it starts wearing) bearing with a larger oil reservoir than some (again until it starts wearing, then there will be oil loss as with any other). Finally, a spec for MTBF for a bearing is only as good as the load on it! If you take a *good* bearing and put a poorly balanced fan assembly around it, or subject the force in another uneven fashion, that MTBF rating is shot_to_hell. |
#365
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Why Pentium?
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:40:37 GMT, John Doe
wrote: A babbling troll who says that fluid dynamic bearings are the same as sleeve bearings. Apparently the troll doesn't even know that modern high-performance hard drives are made with fluid dynamic bearings. Apparently this troll is just clueless. Clueless one, if I didn't know that I wouldn't have ALREADY MENTIONED IT IN THIS THREAD. I'll be content letting you pay a premium for crap generic fans though, whatever makes you happy. |
#366
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Why Pentium?
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 22:45:50 GMT, John Doe
wrote: This troll apparently really does not know the difference between a sleeve bearing and a fluid dynamic bearing. The difference is a marketing department. |
#367
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Why Pentium?
On 2006-07-21, kony wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:38:15 +0200, Jure Sah wrote: You might want to read up on the fact that 9600 baud on computers is no longer 9600 baud and not only in multitasking systems. It has to do with the point that all modern OS's CPU time scheduling mechanisms are incompetent. It's not like 9600 baud is something the hardware could not manage, it's the point that the software's triggers and events misfire by design. It seems you're suggesting computers don't work at all, since they can and do processes 9600 baud signals as well as a myrid # of others, given I/O peripherals. Correct. Anyone suggesting otherwise lacks experience in these things. Cast your mind back 10-15 years where it was relatively common to hook up a single machine to several dumb terminals for UNIX use. The machines at the time could easily support 30-40+ users on serial lines, often at higher baud rates than 9600. Bear in mind we're talking about 386 or 486 processors with 8450 or possibly 16450 UARTs if you weren't lucky enough to have an intelligent serial card. -- Andrew Smallshaw |
#368
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Why Pentium?
"John Doe" wrote in message ... I guess this troll also considers "sleeve bearing" to be a marketing term. i no longer care why every single post you write starts out with, 'this troll' but you just are a nuisance so into the kill file you go. |
#369
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Why Pentium?
"Jure Sah" wrote in message news John Doe pravi: I knew this troll was going to have a tough time with my simple correction. What exactly makes me a troll here? If you say anything he doesn't agree with then you get labelled a troll by him. Just killfile him and be done with it. |
#370
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Why Pentium?
Intel had bigger production of processors. In that time they made
contracts with big pc-produce companies. Now You can read abot ome companies offering AMD based computers, because of AMD's FAB36 - they increased production so they can satify the price and quantity demands. There is always posibility to bild you own pc with processor of Your choise. PS Sorry for mispelling. English is not my primar language |
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