Why Pentium?

This troll apparently really does not know the difference between a
sleeve bearing and a fluid dynamic bearing.


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Subject: Why Pentium?
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:08:42 -0400
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 20:02:34 GMT, John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:

Jure Sah admin thought-beacon.net wrote:

kony pravi:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:53:06 GMT, John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:


My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap fan,
or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems started, or
maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED.

Whatever.

Fluid bearing fans are usually very low quality junk.

I second that.

That makes two trolls with no citations.



We aren't burdened with countering anyone's ignorance, it
would never end. This is another example of common
knowledge, that which any competent engineer or system
integrator has know since the beginning and believe me,
they'd love to shave some $ off the costs if there weren't
the detractions, especially when sleeve bearing fans have
significantly lower high pitched noise.

So you can't be bothered to find any information yourself,
only a product listing? Do you believe all product
listings? How about a $15 600W PSU with one of those fluid
dynamic blahblahblah in it, are those good too because they
wrote some lofty specs?

Sorry, there comes a point where you have to have some
experience instead of just repeating marketing by gypsy
companies selling PC parts they dont' even make.

What might we Google for a citation? How about;

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...leeve+bearings

VERY FIRST GOOGLE HIT,
http://www.currentsolutions.com/know...sleevefans.htm
excerpt:

"The chart indicates that when temperatures ranged from 25
to 60 degrees C, ball-bearing fans on average outlasted
sleeve-bearing fans by 50 percent. When temperatures
exceeded 700 degrees C, ball-bearing fans ran for 45,000
hours, while sleeve-bearing fans became inoperable. Yet,
when the ambient temperatures were relatively low,
sleeve-bearing fans lasted as long as ball-bearing fans."

Since any normal system will be in that 25-60C range, we can
conclude this is one citation.

SECOND HIT,
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=193
excerpts;

"Ball bearings... most important for our situation - long
life" "With proper lubrication sleeve bearings will provide
performance and service on par with that of their ball
bearing counterparts. If left alone for a long time, and run
at higher temperatures they will fail before the ball
bearings will."


------------------

So far we have the first two hits Google found. The trend
continues with practically EVERY link that discusses both
types. So it seems it is [entire world] vs [you]

So tell us, is it you [the one who doesn't make fans, hasn't
actually tested the fans you linked for they haven't even
existed as long as their spec'd lifespan, and doesn't even
use proper terms for sleeve bearing fans] that knows about
fans, or it is major website reviewers, fan manufacturers
themselves, engineers, and just about every possible 3rd
party?

Sorry but you are a lone advocate of them for lifespan
improvement and have no evidence besides a line of text
versus 'site after 'site after 'site.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:57:07 -0400, George Macdonald
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:11:22 -0400, kony wrote:

Hey Kony, since you seem to know so much about fans... what the hell is the
deal with those chipset coolers that have flakey fans? Some of them spin
at 7Krpm and last 6 months max. Is it even possible to make such small
fans move enough air and still last?


They're off-brand/low-quality, small diameter, thin, higher
RPM... essentially all the things that make for shorter
lifespan.

It's possible to make higher quality small fans but it'd
cost more. Even better would be reduction in necessary flow
by having a better hunk of metal under the fan, combined
with a 15-20mm thick fan of at least 50mm diameter.

Manufacturers aren't interested in lifespan beyond the
warranty period in most cases though, so the best course is
to replace whole 'sink-fan assembly or relube the fan (if a
sleeve bearing type) before it begins making noise so the
bearingway isn't chewed up and enlarged (so then whatever
lube is added, is even less likely to stay where it should.
Also once a fan has worn some a thicker lube will help keep
it in the bearing.




They're usually "buried frame" type and easily replaced but impossible to
find, even from distributors. I've been able to find a 45mm diameter
"bury-frame" fan for my GPU cooler at Directron but the 30mm versions
usually used on chipset coolers are just not available anywhere. Do you
know why?

Nope, beyond that the manufacturers of these low-end
products don't want to offer only a fan, instead a more
costly alternative.

Any ideas on where I might find a "quality" version?... or do
the mfrs prefer to sell with a hunk of metal for the extra $$?

I'd just replace the whole 'sink, or in some cases you can
put a normal full-framed fan on if you use longer screws.
It's a bit more difficult if the video card doesnt' have
clearance under it, but I always advise to leave an empty
slot under the video card anyway so there's less heat
buildup and/or better air intake-exhaust in cases where the
card exhausts out the rear through the mounting slot
bracket.

Ultimately the best solution depends on available space and
amount of heat that needs removed. I'd not try to use
another recessed fan if there wasn't a space constraint
requiring it.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:01:29 -0400, "hdrdtd"
wrote:

A little over 17 years? that should be long enough..




It's not reliable. All of the known premiere fan
manufacturers are more conservative with their ratings. So
we'd be contrasting multi billion dollar fan manufacturers
putting fans in mission critical systems from computers to
airplanes to hospital equipment), and on the other hand a
small PC manufacturer that doesn't make fans at all, merely
gets them from a third party.

Further, on the product page we see the following:

"MTBF: 150,000 hours
* 150,000 hours of MTBF is measured under the 25C (77F)
ambient temperature.
* MTBF of normal ball bearing Fan: 50,000 hours
* MTBF of normal sleeve bearing Fan: 20,000 hours "

These are clearly deceptive.

1) The MTBF is only at 25C and goes down quickly at higher
temp. It's not hard at all to have a higher temp, 25C is
about average room temp, not heated chassis air temp.

2) MTBF of a normal dual ball bearing fan is between
50-100K hours, so IF only one number is given it would be
75K. They fail to mention that as temp goes up and sleeve
bearing (including S-FDB type) MTBF goes down quickly, ball
bearing MTBF does not. In short, they're playing with the
numbers to suggest the product is better than it is. Beware
of companies that do this instead of providing ALL of the
information.

3) Their picture of the bearing is quite telling. There's
nothing special about it, it's merely a semi-sealed (until
it starts wearing) bearing with a larger oil reservoir than
some (again until it starts wearing, then there will be oil
loss as with any other).

Finally, a spec for MTBF for a bearing is only as good as
the load on it! If you take a *good* bearing and put a
poorly balanced fan assembly around it, or subject the force
in another uneven fashion, that MTBF rating is shot_to_hell.

A babbling troll who says that fluid dynamic bearings are the same
as sleeve bearings. Apparently the troll doesn't even know that
modern high-performance hard drives are made with fluid dynamic
bearings. Apparently this troll is just clueless.


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From: kony spam spam.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt. comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.computer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.ch ips
Subject: Why Pentium?
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:33:31 -0400
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:01:29 -0400, "hdrdtd"
hdrdtd comcast.net wrote:

A little over 17 years? that should be long enough..




It's not reliable. All of the known premiere fan
manufacturers are more conservative with their ratings. So
we'd be contrasting multi billion dollar fan manufacturers
putting fans in mission critical systems from computers to
airplanes to hospital equipment), and on the other hand a
small PC manufacturer that doesn't make fans at all, merely
gets them from a third party.

Further, on the product page we see the following:

"MTBF: 150,000 hours
* 150,000 hours of MTBF is measured under the 25C (77F)
ambient temperature.
* MTBF of normal ball bearing Fan: 50,000 hours
* MTBF of normal sleeve bearing Fan: 20,000 hours "

These are clearly deceptive.

1) The MTBF is only at 25C and goes down quickly at higher
temp. It's not hard at all to have a higher temp, 25C is
about average room temp, not heated chassis air temp.

2) MTBF of a normal dual ball bearing fan is between
50-100K hours, so IF only one number is given it would be
75K. They fail to mention that as temp goes up and sleeve
bearing (including S-FDB type) MTBF goes down quickly, ball
bearing MTBF does not. In short, they're playing with the
numbers to suggest the product is better than it is. Beware
of companies that do this instead of providing ALL of the
information.

3) Their picture of the bearing is quite telling. There's
nothing special about it, it's merely a semi-sealed (until
it starts wearing) bearing with a larger oil reservoir than
some (again until it starts wearing, then there will be oil
loss as with any other).

Finally, a spec for MTBF for a bearing is only as good as
the load on it! If you take a *good* bearing and put a
poorly balanced fan assembly around it, or subject the force
in another uneven fashion, that MTBF rating is shot_to_hell.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:40:37 GMT, John Doe
wrote:

A babbling troll who says that fluid dynamic bearings are the same
as sleeve bearings. Apparently the troll doesn't even know that
modern high-performance hard drives are made with fluid dynamic
bearings. Apparently this troll is just clueless.


Clueless one, if I didn't know that I wouldn't have ALREADY
MENTIONED IT IN THIS THREAD.

I'll be content letting you pay a premium for crap generic
fans though, whatever makes you happy.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 22:45:50 GMT, John Doe
wrote:

This troll apparently really does not know the difference between a
sleeve bearing and a fluid dynamic bearing.



The difference is a marketing department.

On 2006-07-21, kony wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:38:15 +0200, Jure Sah
wrote:

You might want to read up on the fact that 9600 baud on computers is no
longer 9600 baud and not only in multitasking systems. It has to do with
the point that all modern OS's CPU time scheduling mechanisms are
incompetent. It's not like 9600 baud is something the hardware could not
manage, it's the point that the software's triggers and events misfire
by design.

It seems you're suggesting computers don't work at all,
since they can and do processes 9600 baud signals as well as
a myrid # of others, given I/O peripherals.

Correct. Anyone suggesting otherwise lacks experience in these things.
Cast your mind back 10-15 years where it was relatively common to hook
up a single machine to several dumb terminals for UNIX use. The machines
at the time could easily support 30-40+ users on serial lines, often at
higher baud rates than 9600. Bear in mind we're talking about 386 or
486 processors with 8450 or possibly 16450 UARTs if you weren't lucky
enough to have an intelligent serial card.

--
Andrew Smallshaw

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
I guess this troll also considers "sleeve bearing" to be
a marketing term.

i no longer care why every single post you write starts out with, 'this
troll' but you just are a nuisance so into the kill file you go.

"Jure Sah" wrote in message
news
John Doe pravi:
I knew this troll was going to have a tough time with my simple
correction.

What exactly makes me a troll here?

If you say anything he doesn't agree with then you get labelled a troll by
him.

Just killfile him and be done with it.

Intel had bigger production of processors. In that time they made
contracts with big pc-produce companies. Now You can read abot ome
companies offering AMD based computers, because of AMD's FAB36 - they
increased production so they can satify the price and quantity demands.
There is always posibility to bild you own pc with processor of Your
choise.

PS
Sorry for mispelling. English is not my primar language