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  #21  
Old January 31st 05, 02:27 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Tom Scales wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Noel Paton wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
The pc is a Compaq Deskpro EP/SB Series, 350Mhz Pentium 2.

I do have a copy of Windows98(SE), but it is an OEM from a Dell
machine. So that would make it even more difficult to put on the
Compaq.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Not only more difficult - but also illegal!


If the computer is mine, and the software(OS) is mine, then it is

*not*
illegal.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


Uh, yes it is. Read your license agreement. The Dell OEM OS stays

with the
Dell machine and is not transferable


I don't have to. I know enough to know what is enforceable and what
isn't as far as the law is concerned.

Just because Dell's license agreement says something, doesn't make it
illegal.

If you were to buy a new car, and wanted the wheels from your first put
on your new one, would it be illegal just because the old car's
paperwork said the wheels are not to be used on any other vehicle?

It may invalidate the warrantee, but that is a different issue.

***Dell's goal obviously is to inconvenience the consumer who buys
another brand of pc. That is the reason for difficulty in installing
the Dell version of Windows on a Gateway, Compaq, ect. But I've never
had a problem putting the same OS on another one of my Dell PCs.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

  #22  
Old January 31st 05, 03:10 AM
Nicholas D Richards
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article om,
writes

Tom Scales wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Noel Paton wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
The pc is a Compaq Deskpro EP/SB Series, 350Mhz Pentium 2.

I do have a copy of Windows98(SE), but it is an OEM from a Dell
machine. So that would make it even more difficult to put on the
Compaq.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Not only more difficult - but also illegal!

If the computer is mine, and the software(OS) is mine, then it is

*not*
illegal.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


Uh, yes it is. Read your license agreement. The Dell OEM OS stays

with the
Dell machine and is not transferable


I don't have to. I know enough to know what is enforceable and what
isn't as far as the law is concerned.

Just because Dell's license agreement says something, doesn't make it
illegal.

If you were to buy a new car, and wanted the wheels from your first put
on your new one, would it be illegal just because the old car's
paperwork said the wheels are not to be used on any other vehicle?

It may invalidate the warrantee, but that is a different issue.

***Dell's goal obviously is to inconvenience the consumer who buys
another brand of pc. That is the reason for difficulty in installing
the Dell version of Windows on a Gateway, Compaq, ect. But I've never
had a problem putting the same OS on another one of my Dell PCs.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.



I hesitate to join in this slanging match. However.

You have bought a licence, which has certain conditions attached to it.
Those conditions are enforceable at law under most jurisdictions.

If you buy the freehold on a house, you are almost certain to buy it
with covenants attached. These may say, for arguments sake, that you
cannot erect an advertising hoarding on the land. The covenant will
certainly say that as a condition of sale that these restrictions will
apply to all heirs, successors and other purchasers. If you then build a
hoarding and one of the heirs or successors of the person or company who
originally sold the house and land and imposed the covenant cares to go
to law they will win, unless the covenant can be shown to be grossly
unreasonable.

In the same way Microsoft will have imposed certain conditions on Dell,
over and above those conditions in a retail licence, in granting them a
licence to sell PC's with Windows installed. In exchange the licence
would have been considerably cheaper than the cost of a retail licence,
and Dell will have passed some of that saving onto yourself when you
bought the Dell machine. The licence will require Dell to impose the
conditions on the purchaser of the PC. At law these conditions are
enforceable.

Whether Microsoft or Dell would actually come after you is another
matter, it would depend upon them finding out and whether you were worth
suing. So it might be better to keep schtoom as to what you do in the
privacy of your own home. If I were you and I was in business, then I
would look over my shoulder, from time to time.
--
Nicholas David Richards -

"Oł sont les neiges d'antan?"
  #23  
Old January 31st 05, 03:40 AM
Tom Scales
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
ps.com...

Tom Scales wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Noel Paton wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
The pc is a Compaq Deskpro EP/SB Series, 350Mhz Pentium 2.

I do have a copy of Windows98(SE), but it is an OEM from a Dell
machine. So that would make it even more difficult to put on the
Compaq.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Not only more difficult - but also illegal!

If the computer is mine, and the software(OS) is mine, then it is

*not*
illegal.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


Uh, yes it is. Read your license agreement. The Dell OEM OS stays

with the
Dell machine and is not transferable


I don't have to. I know enough to know what is enforceable and what
isn't as far as the law is concerned.

Just because Dell's license agreement says something, doesn't make it
illegal.

If you were to buy a new car, and wanted the wheels from your first put
on your new one, would it be illegal just because the old car's
paperwork said the wheels are not to be used on any other vehicle?

It may invalidate the warrantee, but that is a different issue.

***Dell's goal obviously is to inconvenience the consumer who buys
another brand of pc. That is the reason for difficulty in installing
the Dell version of Windows on a Gateway, Compaq, ect. But I've never
had a problem putting the same OS on another one of my Dell PCs.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


Are you an attorney? I think not.

The license is absolutely enforceable. It's not even particularly unusual.

Tom


  #24  
Old January 31st 05, 05:46 AM
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I hesitate to join in this slanging match. However.

You have bought a licence, which has certain conditions attached to

it.
Those conditions are enforceable at law under most jurisdictions.


That depends on the license.

If you buy the freehold on a house, you are almost certain to buy it
with covenants attached. These may say, for arguments sake, that you
cannot erect an advertising hoarding on the land. The covenant will
certainly say that as a condition of sale that these restrictions

will
apply to all heirs, successors and other purchasers. If you then

build a
hoarding and one of the heirs or successors of the person or company

who
originally sold the house and land and imposed the covenant cares to

go
to law they will win, unless the covenant can be shown to be grossly
unreasonable.


very bad example. You cannot draw a parallel here, since this is so
completely different than what we are talking about here.

In the same way Microsoft will have imposed certain conditions on

Dell,
over and above those conditions in a retail licence, in granting them

a
licence to sell PC's with Windows installed. In exchange the licence
would have been considerably cheaper than the cost of a retail

licence,
and Dell will have passed some of that saving onto yourself when you
bought the Dell machine. The licence will require Dell to impose the
conditions on the purchaser of the PC. At law these conditions are
enforceable.


This is not about Microsoft imposing restrictions on Dell. What is not
enforceable is Dell imposing the restriction mentioned on the user.

Whether Microsoft or Dell would actually come after you is another
matter, it would depend upon them finding out and whether you were

worth
suing. So it might be better to keep schtoom as to what you do in

the
privacy of your own home. If I were you and I was in business, then

I
would look over my shoulder, from time to time.


Well, I'm not in business, and you are paranoid.

To expand on the car example. If your old car is totalled, and all you
have left are the tires, you can still use them again. And no
restrictions by Firestone imposed on Ford will give them the ability to
enforce a rule that says you cannot use those tires anymore.

The original Dell was crap, and the OS is all I have left of it. And
since the pc I put it on also belongs to me, I intend to get the most
out of it.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

  #25  
Old January 31st 05, 05:49 AM
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Tom Scales wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

Tom Scales wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Noel Paton wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
The pc is a Compaq Deskpro EP/SB Series, 350Mhz Pentium 2.

I do have a copy of Windows98(SE), but it is an OEM from a

Dell
machine. So that would make it even more difficult to put on

the
Compaq.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Not only more difficult - but also illegal!

If the computer is mine, and the software(OS) is mine, then it

is
*not*
illegal.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


Uh, yes it is. Read your license agreement. The Dell OEM OS stays

with the
Dell machine and is not transferable


I don't have to. I know enough to know what is enforceable and what
isn't as far as the law is concerned.

Just because Dell's license agreement says something, doesn't make

it
illegal.

If you were to buy a new car, and wanted the wheels from your first

put
on your new one, would it be illegal just because the old car's
paperwork said the wheels are not to be used on any other vehicle?

It may invalidate the warrantee, but that is a different issue.

***Dell's goal obviously is to inconvenience the consumer who buys
another brand of pc. That is the reason for difficulty in

installing
the Dell version of Windows on a Gateway, Compaq, ect. But I've

never
had a problem putting the same OS on another one of my Dell PCs.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


Are you an attorney? I think not.

The license is absolutely enforceable. It's not even particularly

unusual.

And I'm sure you aren't an attorney either, because you are still
wrong.

But none of this has anything to do with the original post anyway. So
let's just continue to disagree.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

  #26  
Old January 31st 05, 08:19 AM
Noel Paton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



wrote in message
oups.com...
I hesitate to join in this slanging match. However.

You have bought a licence, which has certain conditions attached to

it.
Those conditions are enforceable at law under most jurisdictions.


That depends on the license.



The License terms have been tested in the US and the UK courts - and stand.


If you buy the freehold on a house, you are almost certain to buy it
with covenants attached. These may say, for arguments sake, that you
cannot erect an advertising hoarding on the land. The covenant will
certainly say that as a condition of sale that these restrictions

will
apply to all heirs, successors and other purchasers. If you then

build a
hoarding and one of the heirs or successors of the person or company

who
originally sold the house and land and imposed the covenant cares to

go
to law they will win, unless the covenant can be shown to be grossly
unreasonable.


very bad example. You cannot draw a parallel here, since this is so
completely different than what we are talking about here.


Not at all - Microsoft own the software - you only own a license!


In the same way Microsoft will have imposed certain conditions on

Dell,
over and above those conditions in a retail licence, in granting them

a
licence to sell PC's with Windows installed. In exchange the licence
would have been considerably cheaper than the cost of a retail

licence,
and Dell will have passed some of that saving onto yourself when you
bought the Dell machine. The licence will require Dell to impose the
conditions on the purchaser of the PC. At law these conditions are
enforceable.


This is not about Microsoft imposing restrictions on Dell. What is not
enforceable is Dell imposing the restriction mentioned on the user.


IT IS about Microsoft's terms and conditions - Dell merely act as a Vendor
in law


Whether Microsoft or Dell would actually come after you is another
matter, it would depend upon them finding out and whether you were

worth
suing. So it might be better to keep schtoom as to what you do in

the
privacy of your own home. If I were you and I was in business, then

I
would look over my shoulder, from time to time.


Well, I'm not in business, and you are paranoid.


Neither of which would prevent you being prosecuted, should MS take such a
step.


To expand on the car example. If your old car is totalled, and all you
have left are the tires, you can still use them again. And no
restrictions by Firestone imposed on Ford will give them the ability to
enforce a rule that says you cannot use those tires anymore.

The original Dell was crap, and the OS is all I have left of it. And
since the pc I put it on also belongs to me, I intend to get the most
out of it.


Experiences count for nothing in law - and the CD is legally worthless, and
any install from it legally a no-no.
The ONLY machine that CD was legally allowed to run on was the machine it
came with.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.



--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's



  #27  
Old January 31st 05, 09:37 PM
Tom Scales
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
ups.com...

Tom Scales wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...


Are you an attorney? I think not.

The license is absolutely enforceable. It's not even particularly

unusual.

And I'm sure you aren't an attorney either, because you are still
wrong.

But none of this has anything to do with the original post anyway. So
let's just continue to disagree.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


No, I'm not an attorney. I have, however, written over 200 software
contracts, all in excess of $5m. You clearly don't understand software
contract law.

If you're going to steal it, then I'd stop posting my full name and city.
MS might want to have some fun.

And they WOULD win.


  #28  
Old February 1st 05, 12:46 AM
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No, I'm not an attorney. I have, however, written over 200 software
contracts, all in excess of $5m. You clearly don't understand

software
contract law.


I don't have to.

If you're going to steal it, then I'd stop posting my full name and

city.
MS might want to have some fun.

And they WOULD win.


No they wouldn't.

I have no idea why you keep turning this thread into something it is
not.

I have stolen nothing, and have already stated that the copy of the
(unregistered)window 98(SE) software we are talking about belongs to
me.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

 




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