Why is this folder so slow?

On 12/05/2020 6:25 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
No, the option is off by default.

It's off in one section of the options, but it's on in another section.

--
Sent from Giganews on Thunderbird on my Toshiba laptop

On 12/05/2020 7:41 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=552769

I see someone requested all those .wdseml files (under the .mozmsgs
folders) get deleted if the "Allow Windows Search" option gets disabled.
Opened on 10 YEARS AGO! Status is still New. Geezus.

Good find! And I see that there were discussions just 18 days ago on
this bug, and they were basically saying that considering how old this
request was made, that should he assume that this will never get
implemented?

Then at:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=553048

users try to disable the option but it immediately reenables itself.
Rude! Provide the option but do not honor the user's choice. Yousuf
needs to check if the option: (1) remains disabled across multiple
restarts of Thunderbird; and, (2) if the option remains enabled if the
.wdseml files that he deleted are not replace with newly generated
.wdseml files.

Yes, this option appears in two separate sections, and I think as long
as it's off in both places, then it stays off. I just implemented this
on my laptop, after doing the same on my desktop. It's stayed off in
both places in both computers. It appears under Options - Advanced -
General = System Integration - Allow Windows Search to search
messages. And secondly, it also appears right above that option under
"Always check to see if Thunderbird is the default mail client on
startup", and there is a "Check Now" button; when you press the Check
Now, then a dialog box appears with this option enabled by default,
which you can uncheck.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/mozill...en-to-firefox/

"pull the plug with six months' notice if the Thunderbird project does
not make "meaningful progress in short order" in creating technical
infrastructure that's independent of Mozilla Corporation's."

That article is dated back in 2017. So, what magical evolution in
development resources has occurred for Thunderbird in the meantime?

"Mozilla stopped throwing resources at the project in 2012"

Somewhat explains why a vast number of big tickets have never been
addressed, but there are tickets still listed as New dating back to
2004. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozill...erbird#History,
lots of wavering on what to do with this lead balloon.

I think both email and newsgroups are now considered "old school"
Internet, few of the kids want to use either one of these anymore. When
they do use email, they usually use it through a web interface, rather
than through a locally stored interface.

--
Sent from Giganews on Thunderbird on my Toshiba laptop

VanguardLH wrote:

The more I have dig into Thunderbird and its bugs whether reported or
not, the more I get the feeling that the "developers" are CSCI
undergraduates, and over the years the turn over of volunteers resulted
in no old farts left that are intimate with the entire product.

I expect the team is smaller than the one in the photo here.

https://blog.thunderbird.net/2014/11...oronto-summit/

Paul

VanguardLH wrote:
[...]

The more I have dig into Thunderbird and its bugs whether reported or
not, the more I get the feeling that the "developers" are CSCI
undergraduates, and over the years the turn over of volunteers resulted
in no old farts left that are intimate with the entire product.

Thunderbird is an unbelievable mess and they keep on messing with it
('enhancements' :-(), instead of - as you pointed out. fixing bugs.

One of my many pet peeves: Thunderbird has 35+ - yes *thirty five
plus* - update-related settings (app.update.*) and *still* you can't
tell it to only notify you of updates *once* and then shut up (and not
install said updates).

I've set my old (60.9.0) Thunderbird to 'Never check for updates' and
managed to get rid of an already downloaded (but not installed) update,
so that it does no longer bug me about that.

But on SWMBO's system updates sneaked in and the 'Never check for
updates' option is no longer there! :-( So it's "We'll keep bugging you
till you give in or click the 'wrong' button and rinse-and repeat ever
after!". :-(

I've renamed Thunderbird's update.exe on her system, and managed to
get rid of the 'pop-down' (I think Mozilla calls it a 'doorhanger') she
gets at startup, nagging her to download a new version of Thunderbird,
because hers (68.5.0) can not be updated.

On this is just *one* area, where Thunderbird is completely broken.
Sigh!

When
Mozilla declared it was considering dumping Thunderbird onto other
open-source organizations (like how OpenOffice got dumped at the Apache
Software Foundation) was when I decided to terminate my trial of
Thunderbird. Well, that and my exasperation with Thunderbird that
pushed me to also dump it after a 6-month trial.

Why did it take you *that* long! :-)

Out of interest: What are you using now (for e-mail)?

[...]

Paul wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

The more I have dig into Thunderbird and its bugs whether reported or
not, the more I get the feeling that the "developers" are CSCI
undergraduates, and over the years the turn over of volunteers resulted
in no old farts left that are intimate with the entire product.

I expect the team is smaller than the one in the photo here.

https://blog.thunderbird.net/2014/11...oronto-summit/

21 people are shown in the photo, yet the article states:

"group of seven individuals were elected to comprise a Thunderbird
Council with the authority to make decisions affecting Thunderbird."

That article is dated back in 2014. Wonder what the attrition has been
since then.

"Thunderbird needs to have one or more full-time, paid staff to support
shipping a stable, reliable product, and allow progress to be made on
frequently-requested features. To this end, we plan to appeal directly
to our users for donations."

I doubt they've gotten enough donations sufficient for someone to accept
as variable minimum wage to be full-time paid staff. "Contributors"
sounds better than "volunteers".

On 5/12/2020 9:30 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Nope, it's off there [1] as well.

I've been using Thunderbird for 10 years and there are no .wdseml
files, no .mozmsgs folders and the 'Allow Windows Search to search
messages' option is unticked in both [2] places.

[1] Where 'there' is as you mentioned:

Tools - Options - 'Advanced' major tab - 'General' sub-tab - System
Integration - Always check to see if Thunderbird is the default mail
client on startup - Check Now.... - In the 'System Integration' popup,
the 'Allow Windows Search to search messages' option is*not* ticked.

[2] It's of course [3] one option, which you can set or unset in these
two places.

[3] OTOH, considering this 'Mozilla' crap, 'of course' is a rather
tricky notion!:-(

I found that it was unchecked in base directory, but it was checked in
the pop-up dialog box. It's now unchecked in both places, and it's
stayed that way so far after a few restarts. I'll check again ... yup,
still unticked.

Yousuf Khan

Frank Slootweg wrote:

Why did it take you *that* long [to abandon the trial of Tbird]! :-)

I had trialed Tbird several times, like perhaps once per year for
several years. I would also trial other e-mail clients (I did not need
nor want a combo email+newsgroups client). Often those lasted less than
a month for when I got ****ed with Tbird enough to look elsewhere. For
the last trial, I was determined to use it long enough to get more
educated on how to use and configure it. After 6 months, I couldn't
stand it anymore.

Out of interest: What are you using now (for e-mail)?

I've used Outlook for a couple decades. I went to Office 365 for 3
years, but decided to quit the subscriptionware. Money was tighter back
then when I had to decide to renew or not. Although I switched to
LibreOffice, it has no e-mail program. I trialed a few candidates, but
eventually settled on eM Client. It has lots of bugs most of which are
with its GUI, so nothing critical if not essential you tweak its GUI to
your likes.

I use the free version which limits me to only 2 accounts; however, it
will let you define more than 2 accounts, and then later you run into
problems polling those accounts, like ActiveSync stops working with
Hotmail forcing you to delete and recreate the account. The free
version does not restrict you from defining more than 2 accounts, but it
won't support it, and not only doesn't it support more than 2 accounts
but lets you define more and then ****s them up, even for IMAP accounts.
I got around the 2-account limitation in the free version by having one
of the monitored accounts poll other accounts, like configuring the
server-side options in Gmail and Hotmail to poll other accounts, so I
merged some accounts. If I needed more than 2 accounts in eM Client,
I'd buy it. I've found their developers/support do NOT visit their
forums, and peer support there pretty much devolves to just 1 attendant
there (who has no ability to escalate reported bugs to Dev). The author
refuses to communicate with freeloaders on reporting bugs. You have to
buy to get any real support.

For a short time (a couple months), I trialed EssentialPIM. It also has
a 2-account limit for its free version, but I could work around that.
As I recall, back then they would watermark any printouts, but I think
they stopped that. However, to get ActiveSync (Exchange) support or
even CalDAV or other cloud-sync features meant having to buy it ($40 for
1-year support, $80 for lifetime license w/support). It's not
subscriptionware, but what you pay dictates for how long you get
support. I do remember getting support from them despite I was using
their free version. https://www.essentialpim.com/pc-version/pro-vs-free
shows the differences. I remember I was close to buying ePIM, but don't
recall why I chose not. I do remember liking their Notes features in
the Pro version which made it similar to Microsoft's OneNote; however,
later Microsoft made OneNote free to everyone (and what I use), so that
lure fizzled.

At this point, and after using eM Client for just under 5 months (in
this latest trial since I trialed it a few times before), I might bite
the bullet and go back to the Office 365 subscriptionware to get Outlook
(plus LibreOffice Writer and Calc have been a little disappointing).
Rather than pay Microsoft's high subscription price of $99/year, I only
paid $33/year when I last used Office 365. So, I got 3 years for the
price of 1, and registering each subscription added it to the total
subscription period, so I had 3 years of subscription before deciding
not to continue.

So, I'm on the fence right now. Do I continue using eM Client for free
with its buggy GUI with the 2-account limitation (which isn't enforced
but causes problems if you create more than 2 accounts)? Do I pay for
eM Client ($50 for a lifetime license, not subscriptionware), so I can
report the bugs to Dev (and not futilely in their forums) and hope they
get addressed? Do I get EssentialPIM Pro for $80 lifetime? Or do I buy
1-year licenses for Microsoft Office 365 (and cheaper from a reseller
instead of direct from Microsoft)?

I know some folks that just use the webmail client from the e-mail
provider (hotmail.com/outlook.com, gmail.com, comcast.net, etc). If you
want a local e-mail alert tool, there are lots of those (using POP or
IMAP). However, I do like the e-mail + calendar + contact integration
of eM Client, ePIM, and Outlook to allow the same local UI access to all
of those components across multiple hosts. You can get Google Chrome to
alert you to, of course, only Gmail new mails, but I don't leave the web
browsers loaded all the time (I use them, and then exit them), plus
Chrome is my backup web browser while Firefox is my primary web browser.

I even tried the Mail, Calendar, and People apps from Microsoft that
comes bundled in Windows 10. To save my keyboard from repeated fist
banging, I quit using those.

I'm still old school in using local clients mostly because the web
clients are so dismally anemic. I want more than the majority of boobs,
er, users that are satisfied with less ... much less.