Why are external drives cheaper than internal?

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:48:46 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 09/10/2015 05:15 PM, Rod Speed wrote:

How come Seagate -- to name just one manufacturer -- can sell an
external 6TB drive in a case with a USB 3.0 adapter and a cable for
less than they sell any 6TB internal drive?

Because the external drive isn't just a single 6TB drive.

Hardly any different in size from my 2TB and 5TB ones. Don't think
there's room for two drives in there.

If it was a dual drive enclosure, it would be obvious and you'd know it.
First, it's way bigger in order to hold two drives, and second, it would
cost way more than a single internal drive of the same capacity, and
therefore it wouldn't apply to the premise of this thread. You can safely
rule out a dual drive enclosure.

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

6TB external $199 ($179 with a coupon code):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178681

You can't compare models if only 1 has a discount or rebate. Just
because a store has a rebate on one model of a maker's product doesn't
mean there is a similar percentage rebate across the entire line of
products or for every product by that maker. You know how rebates work.

So, using the $199 non-rebated price ...

Seagate's cheapest 6TB internal (bare) drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178783

The desktop internal drive is $50 more. Alas, no mention of RPM for
either model. That's typical with external pre-built drives (they want
you to focus on portability and bundleware, not performance) but
internals should mention RPM.

The datasheet for the external (could only find 4 TB) at:

http://www.seagate.com/www-content/p...7-2-1306us.pdf

has NONE of the specs you find in the datasheet for the internal model,
which is at:

http://www.seagate.com/www-content/p...4-5-1506us.pdf

With the external, you don't what the phuck you're getting; however,
Seagate doesn't divulge the RPM for their internal model, either. I've
read elsewhere the internal model spins at 7200 RPM. Unless you void
the warranty by opening the external's case to see what drive model is
in there, you don't know what it is or how it compares to the internal
model. To reduce heat, power consumption, and noise, the external model
probably has a 5400 RPM disk. I suspect you would find benchmarking
shows the external is laggy compared to the internal model. Capacity is
not the only differentiator between HDDs.

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:00:03 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 09/10/2015 03:05 PM, Mark F wrote:
On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 12:09:46 -0500, Mark Perkins
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 10:46:45 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

How come Seagate -- to name just one manufacturer -- can sell an
external 6TB drive in a case with a USB 3.0 adapter and a cable for less
than they sell any 6TB internal drive?
Can you give specific examples?

6TB external $199 ($179 with a coupon code):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178681

Seagate's cheapest 6TB internal (bare) drive, which is what I am
*guessing* is in the external box (or perhaps with a smaller cache) is
$50/$70 mo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178783

1. Both have a 2 year warranty so that is not a difference

2. The Search on www.seagate can't find either, so that isn't
a difference.

3a. I found the external in the Seagate store, but all capacities
got "the model you selected is currently not available for purchase
on seagate.com.

3b. The internal also got currently not available in all
capacities.

Maybe they have stopped being made (perhaps replaced by newer models
HDD with flash.

If they are not being made any more than the prices can be anywhere,
depending on what the individual vendors feel: a. "low performance,
but captive audience, so lets raise the price or b. "low performance,
lets get rid of them fast."




I'm sure there are some examples of the same drive being cheaper
when buying in an external case, but many times:
1a. The drive is slower than you would normally buy for internal use.
1b. Since the actual drive model in the external drive isn't
specified, the model can vary depending on what is available.
2. The warranty period is shorter.
3. Two drives are in the external case, so a given capacity
can be achieved with cheaper disks.
4. If you are comparing retail packages, the retail package,
my include cables, brackets, and cloning software that
isn't in the (retail) external drive.
5. Maybe even, the external drive is being sold with a lower
margin for some business reason.


I don't know, but it's been true for quite a few years now, so I take
advantage of the situation by buying an external drive when I need an
internal drive. It usually only takes a few minutes to strip the drive out
of its case.

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

6TB external $199 ($179 with a coupon code):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178681

You can't compare models if only 1 has a discount or rebate. Just
because a store has a rebate on one model of a maker's product doesn't
mean there is a similar percentage rebate across the entire line of
products or for every product by that maker. You know how rebates work.

So, using the $199 non-rebated price ...

Seagate's cheapest 6TB internal (bare) drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178783

The desktop internal drive is $50 more. Alas, no mention of RPM for
either model. That's typical with external pre-built drives (they want
you to focus on portability and bundleware, not performance) but
internals should mention RPM.

The datasheet for the external (could only find 4 TB) at:

http://www.seagate.com/www-content/p...7-2-1306us.pdf

has NONE of the specs you find in the datasheet for the internal model,
which is at:

http://www.seagate.com/www-content/p...4-5-1506us.pdf

With the external, you don't what the phuck you're getting; however,
Seagate doesn't divulge the RPM for their internal model, either. I've
read elsewhere the internal model spins at 7200 RPM. Unless you void
the warranty by opening the external's case to see what drive model is
in there,

You don't void the warranty by checking what drive is in there
and you don't have to open the case to work that out either.

you don't know what it is or how it compares to the internal model.
To reduce heat, power consumption, and noise, the external model
probably has a 5400 RPM disk. I suspect you would find benchmarking
shows the external is laggy compared to the internal model. Capacity is
not the only differentiator between HDDs.

Rod Speed wrote:

VanguardLH wrote

Unless you void the warranty by opening the external's case to see
what drive model is in there,

You don't void the warranty by checking what drive is in there

Opening the enclosure for a pre-built external drive does not void the
warranty?

Some cases are designed to snap together. Prying the half shells apart
often breaks off a tang or lip which is a telltale sign of opening the
case. Some put stickers on. If the seal is broke, removed, defaced,
altered, tampered, or rendered unintelligble then warranty is voided.
Some put a seal on the inside. Some require screws be removed and they
are below the label so you have to puncture the label to get at the
screws.

If they didn't care about boobs getting inside their cases, why put
seals on the case, put screws under labels, or use snap-together cases
that get damaged when forcibly unsnapped?

and you don't have to open the case to work that out either.

How is that performed (to get at the firmware string from the HDD
through the USB-to-SATA converter PCB)?

After I plug in a USB HDD, all I see is it enumerated as a USB device of
type "USB Mass Storage Device". When I go in the registry under:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\U SBSTOR

I see nothing that identifies brand and model of the HDD inside the
external USB case. The subkey under there is named:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\U SBSTOR\Disk&Ven____Mass&Prod_Storage_Device&Rev_

So there is not VID (Vendor ID) or PID (Product ID) in the naming of the
enumeration key by which I could identify the HDD on the other side of
the USB-to-SATA converter inside the USB enclosure. The "Mfg" data
item's value points to disk.inf with a pointer of genmanufacturer so
that doesn't tell which brand or model, either.

Device Management (devmgmt.msc) and its console-mode kin devcon.exe is
not going to show me more than the enumerated info in the registry.

When I use USB Viewer, all it says for the USB device is:

---===Device Information===---
English product name: "USB Mass Storage Device"

ConnectionStatus:
Current Config Value: 0x01 - Device Bus Speed: High
Device Address: 0x02
Open Pipes: 2

===Endpoint Descriptor===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x81 - Direction: IN - EndpointID: 1
bmAttributes: 0x02 - Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00

===Endpoint Descriptor===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x02 - Direction: OUT - EndpointID: 2
bmAttributes: 0x02 - Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00

===Device Descriptor===
bLength: 0x12
bDescriptorType: 0x01
bcdUSB: 0x0200
bDeviceClass: 0x00 - This is an Interface Class Defined Device
bDeviceSubClass: 0x00
bDeviceProtocol: 0x00
bMaxPacketSize0: 0x40 = (64) Bytes
idVendor: 0x14CD = MOAI ELECTRONICS CORPORATION
idProduct: 0x6116
bcdDevice: 0x0220
iManufacturer: 0x01
English (United States) "Generic "
iProduct: 0x03
English (United States) "USB Mass Storage Device"
iSerialNumber: 0x02
English (United States) "116AC2101219"
bNumConfigurations: 0x01

===Configuration Descriptor===
bLength: 0x09
bDescriptorType: 0x02
wTotalLength: 0x0020 - Validated
bNumInterfaces: 0x01
bConfigurationValue: 0x01
iConfiguration: 0x00
bmAttributes: 0xC0 - Bus Powered
MaxPower: 0x01 = 2 mA

===Interface Descriptor===
bLength: 0x09
bDescriptorType: 0x04
bInterfaceNumber: 0x00
bAlternateSetting: 0x00
bNumEndpoints: 0x02
bInterfaceClass: 0x08 - This is a Mass Storage USB Device Interface Class
bInterfaceSubClass: 0x06
bInterfaceProtocol: 0x50
iInterface: 0x00

===Endpoint Descriptor===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x81 - Direction: IN - EndpointID: 1
bmAttributes: 0x02 - Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00

===Endpoint Descriptor===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x02 - Direction: OUT - EndpointID: 2
bmAttributes: 0x02 - Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00

So I can get USB info (presentation data) up to the USB interface inside
the USB enclosure (the USB side of the USB-to-SATA converter PCB) but
nothing about what HDD is on the SATA side of the USB-to-SATA converter.

Make and model are not identified in the enumeration of the USB drive.
So what program could I use to get past the USB-to-SATA converter PCB to
get the HDD's firmware string used to identify it?

VanguardLH wrote
Rod Speed wrote
VanguardLH wrote

Unless you void the warranty by opening the
external's case to see what drive model is in there,

You don't void the warranty by checking what drive is in there

Opening the enclosure for a pre-built external
drive does not void the warranty?

Nope.

Some cases are designed to snap together. Prying
the half shells apart often breaks off a tang or lip

Not if you do it correctly it doesn't.

which is a telltale sign of opening the case.

Anyone with even half a clue checks
which drive is in the case electronically.

Some put stickers on. If the seal is broke, removed, defaced, altered,
tampered, or rendered unintelligble then warranty is voided.

Wrong. Those claims are pure bluff.

Some put a seal on the inside.

Not even possible because there is no way to check
if the seal has been breached without opening it.

Some require screws be removed and they are below the
label so you have to puncture the label to get at the screws.

Just because some fool claims something...

If they didn't care about boobs getting inside their cases,
why put seals on the case, put screws under labels,

Pure bluff.

or use snap-together cases that get
damaged when forcibly unsnapped?

They don't when they are opened properly.

and you don't have to open the case to work that out either.

How is that performed (to get at the firmware string
from the HDD through the USB-to-SATA converter PCB)?

It shows up on the SMART report etc.

After I plug in a USB HDD, all I see is it enumerated as a USB device of
type "USB Mass Storage Device". When I go in the registry under:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\U SBSTOR

I see nothing that identifies brand and model of the HDD inside the
external USB case. The subkey under there is named:


HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\U SBSTOR\Disk&Ven____Mass&Prod_Storage_Device&Rev_

So there is not VID (Vendor ID) or PID (Product ID) in the naming of the
enumeration key by which I could identify the HDD on the other side of
the USB-to-SATA converter inside the USB enclosure. The "Mfg" data
item's value points to disk.inf with a pointer of genmanufacturer so
that doesn't tell which brand or model, either.

Device Management (devmgmt.msc) and its console-mode kin devcon.exe is
not going to show me more than the enumerated info in the registry.

When I use USB Viewer, all it says for the USB device is:

---===Device Information===---
English product name: "USB Mass Storage Device"

ConnectionStatus:
Current Config Value: 0x01 - Device Bus Speed: High
Device Address: 0x02
Open Pipes: 2

===Endpoint Descriptor===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x81 - Direction: IN - EndpointID: 1
bmAttributes: 0x02 - Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00

===Endpoint Descriptor===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x02 - Direction: OUT - EndpointID:
2
bmAttributes: 0x02 - Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00

===Device Descriptor===
bLength: 0x12
bDescriptorType: 0x01
bcdUSB: 0x0200
bDeviceClass: 0x00 - This is an Interface Class
Defined Device
bDeviceSubClass: 0x00
bDeviceProtocol: 0x00
bMaxPacketSize0: 0x40 = (64) Bytes
idVendor: 0x14CD = MOAI ELECTRONICS CORPORATION
idProduct: 0x6116
bcdDevice: 0x0220
iManufacturer: 0x01
English (United States) "Generic "
iProduct: 0x03
English (United States) "USB Mass Storage Device"
iSerialNumber: 0x02
English (United States) "116AC2101219"
bNumConfigurations: 0x01

===Configuration Descriptor===
bLength: 0x09
bDescriptorType: 0x02
wTotalLength: 0x0020 - Validated
bNumInterfaces: 0x01
bConfigurationValue: 0x01
iConfiguration: 0x00
bmAttributes: 0xC0 - Bus Powered
MaxPower: 0x01 = 2 mA

===Interface Descriptor===
bLength: 0x09
bDescriptorType: 0x04
bInterfaceNumber: 0x00
bAlternateSetting: 0x00
bNumEndpoints: 0x02
bInterfaceClass: 0x08 - This is a Mass Storage USB
Device Interface Class
bInterfaceSubClass: 0x06
bInterfaceProtocol: 0x50
iInterface: 0x00

===Endpoint Descriptor===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x81 - Direction: IN - EndpointID: 1
bmAttributes: 0x02 - Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00

===Endpoint Descriptor===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x02 - Direction: OUT - EndpointID:
2
bmAttributes: 0x02 - Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00

So I can get USB info (presentation data) up to the USB interface inside
the USB enclosure (the USB side of the USB-to-SATA converter PCB) but
nothing about what HDD is on the SATA side of the USB-to-SATA converter.

Make and model are not identified in the enumeration of the USB drive.
So what program could I use to get past the USB-to-SATA converter PCB to
get the HDD's firmware string used to identify it?

The SMART report.

Rod Speed wrote:

VanguardLH wrote

Some cases are designed to snap together. Prying the half shells
apart often breaks off a tang or lip

Not if you do it correctly it doesn't.

That requires pre-knowledge so you have already opened the same shells
before. There are lots of things you can do if you knew how to do them
correctly, even heart surgery.

which is a telltale sign of opening the case.

Anyone with even half a clue checks which drive is in the case
electronically.

Thanks for the highly informative response.

Some put stickers on. If the seal is broke, removed, defaced, altered,
tampered, or rendered unintelligble then warranty is voided.

Wrong. Those claims are pure bluff.

Uh huh, and so are stop signs.

Some put a seal on the inside.

Not even possible because there is no way to check if the seal has
been breached without opening it.

Frangible seal. Put on the inside. Open shell from the opposite side
(which you must know) and do not open very much to check integrity
before fully opening; else, the seal delaminates, and you cannot reach
there to put another seal in its place (well, maybe you can using an
elongated forceps and you somehow happened to have another same seal).

Some require screws be removed and they are below the label so you
have to puncture the label to get at the screws.

Just because some fool claims something...

Even fools can see puncture holes in labels.

If they didn't care about boobs getting inside their cases, why put
seals on the case, put screws under labels,

Pure bluff.

Ever try to return an HDD under warranty but with the seal missing? I
have. It came back rejected (warranty voided). Yeah, a bluff, uh huh.

or use snap-together cases that get damaged when forcibly unsnapped?

They don't when they are opened properly.

Oh, I see, if I "properly" break into someone's house and sneak back out
(no damage, no trace, nothing taken) then the break-in is okay. It's
"If you don't get caught then it's legal".

How is that performed [not opening the case] (to get at the firmware
string from the HDD through the USB-to-SATA converter PCB)?

It shows up on the SMART report etc.

Sorry, don't know the etc program. ;-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.

Which of the SMART attributes give the maker and model? None.

It's the hardware ID (firmware string) that identifies the device. Yes,
you can use the drive maker's own utility to get that info since they
know how to retrieve the firmware string. I was hoping there were 3rd
party utilities that would extract the hardware ID from the device's
firmware. Actually I was disappointed that none of the USB enumeration
data would identify the HDD in the external USB enclosure.

Couldn't find anything that said getting S.M.A.R.T. data would divulge
the hardware ID (which contains maker and model) and burned into the
drive's IDE chip (and why I often refer to it as the firmware string).
HD Sentinel seems capable of pulling the hardware ID from the drive but
they present that separately of the S.M.A.R.T. data. Then I found:

http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/...ID-MainBoard-I
http://www.soft.tahionic.com/downloa...code/idex.html

So, yep, you have to query the devices to get their hardware ID string
and other device attributes. Not all utilities to retrieve the firmware
string parse out all values. Piriform's Speccy will give me the serial
number and firmware version but not the hardware ID (maker+model) and
only a couple S.M.A.R.T. attribute values. HD Sentinel gives me most
S.M.A.R.T. data and also parses more out of the firmware string: VID,
PID, hard disk model ID (maker+model), firmware version, and serial
number.

S.M.A.R.T. and USB enumeration doesn't provide any of the ID info. I
had forgotten that I installed HD Sentinel. I have found other tools,
like those above, that will poll the devices to query for their firmware
string(s) to parse out values, like hardware ID.

Rod is a troll. Just filter him out. I'd say.

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Thanks, robots.

VanguardLH wrote
Rod Speed wrote
VanguardLH wrote

Some cases are designed to snap together. Prying
the half shells apart often breaks off a tang or lip

Not if you do it correctly it doesn't.

That requires pre-knowledge so you have
already opened the same shells before.

No, just someone else having done it and
showing the open one on youtube etc.

There are lots of things you can do if you knew
how to do them correctly, even heart surgery.

And now its trivially easy to see if someone has
done it before you and has taken some photos.

which is a telltale sign of opening the case.

Anyone with even half a clue checks
which drive is in the case electronically.

Thanks for the highly informative response.

Says he carefully deleting from the quoting where
I told him how to get the drive manufacturer and
model number without opening the case.

Some put stickers on. If the seal is broke, removed, defaced, altered,
tampered, or rendered unintelligble then warranty is voided.

Wrong. Those claims are pure bluff.

Uh huh, and so are stop signs.

Nope. Those have cops that will book you when you ignore them.

Any jurisdiction with even half a clue forces the manufacturer
to honor the warranty even when the sticker has been removed.

Some put a seal on the inside.

Not even possible because there is no way to check
if the seal has been breached without opening it.

Frangible seal. Put on the inside. Open shell
from the opposite side (which you must know)

And that can be trivially seen in the report of
someone else who has opened it before you.

and do not open very much to check integrity before fully opening;
else, the seal delaminates, and you cannot reach there to put another
seal in its place (well, maybe you can using an elongated forceps
and you somehow happened to have another same seal).

**** all have anything like that with the commodity drives being discussed.

Some require screws be removed and they are below the
label so you have to puncture the label to get at the screws.

Just because some fool claims something...

Even fools can see puncture holes in labels.

Pity that has no legal value as far as the warranty is concerned.

If they didn't care about boobs getting inside their cases,
why put seals on the case, put screws under labels,

Pure bluff.

Ever try to return an HDD under warranty but with the seal missing?

We aren't discussing HDD seals, we are discussing CASE seals.

And yes, I have made a warranty claim with systems that have
had the CASE seal that some fool has put on the CASE seam
and tried to claim that breaching that voids the warranty and
have had the warranty honored because they know that that
is pure bluff and that I would have ****ed them over using the
legal system if they had tried to avoid honoring the warranty.

I have. It came back rejected (warranty voided). Yeah, a bluff, uh huh.

Not with the CASE being discussed.

or use snap-together cases that get damaged when forcibly unsnapped?

They don't when they are opened properly.

Oh, I see,

Like hell you do.

if I "properly" break into someone's house and sneak back out
(no damage, no trace, nothing taken) then the break-in is okay.

No one ever said anything even remotely like that.

It's YOUR property, you are legally free to open the
case without damaging it if you want to do that.

It's "If you don't get caught then it's legal".

Wrong again.

How is that performed [not opening the case] (to get at the firmware
string from the HDD through the USB-to-SATA converter PCB)?

It shows up on the SMART report etc.

Sorry, don't know the etc program. ;-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.

Which of the SMART attributes give the maker and model? None.

Pity about the make and model that shows up
with almost all drives on the SMART report.

It's the hardware ID (firmware string) that identifies the device.

I said SMART REPORT for a reason.

Yes, you can use the drive maker's own utility to get that
info since they know how to retrieve the firmware string.

And any even halfway decent SMART report includes it too.

I was hoping there were 3rd party utilities that would
extract the hardware ID from the device's firmware.

There are, they are called SMART utes.

Actually I was disappointed that none of the USB enumeration
data would identify the HDD in the external USB enclosure.

Sure, that would certainly be a good approach.

Couldn't find anything that said getting S.M.A.R.T. data would
divulge the hardware ID (which contains maker and model)

You could have got real radical and had a look at the
SMART reports that are all over the web and seen the drive
manufacturer and model listed on almost all of those.

and burned into the drive's IDE chip

It isn't necessarily burned, some manufacturers have
it stored on the platter so its easy for them to have
different models which use drives which have one
platter surface which isn't viable to use etc.

(and why I often refer to it as the firmware string).
HD Sentinel seems capable of pulling the hardware ID from
the drive but they present that separately of the S.M.A.R.T. data.

Most SMART utes show it at the top of the SMART report.

Then I found:

http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/...ID-MainBoard-I
http://www.soft.tahionic.com/downloa...code/idex.html

So, yep, you have to query the devices to get their hardware ID string
and other device attributes. Not all utilities to retrieve the firmware
string parse out all values.

I can't think of a SMART ute that doesn't include the drive's manufacturer
and drive model number at the top of the SMART report.

Piriform's Speccy will give me the serial number and
firmware version but not the hardware ID (maker+model)
and only a couple S.M.A.R.T. attribute values.

So use a decent SMART ute that does and
give you the full SMART report as well.

HD Sentinel gives me most S.M.A.R.T. data and also parses
more out of the firmware string: VID, PID, hard disk model
ID (maker+model), firmware version, and serial number.

So as I said, there is no need to open the case to work out
what drive is being used in a particular external hard drive.

S.M.A.R.T. and USB enumeration doesn't provide any of the ID info.

But almost all SMART reports do in fact have the drive manufacturer
and model listed at the top of the SMART report, presumably
because it can be handy to see which drive the report is about.

I had forgotten that I installed HD Sentinel. I have found other
tools, like those above, that will poll the devices to query for
their firmware string(s) to parse out values, like hardware ID.

So, like I said, there is no need to open the case to see
what drive is used in a particular external hard drive.

Rod Speed wrote:

VanguardLH wrote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.
Which of the SMART attributes give the maker and model? None.

Pity about the make and model that shows up
with almost all drives on the SMART report.

Evading the question again.

It's the hardware ID (firmware string) that identifies the device.

I said SMART REPORT for a reason.

Yeah, that's obvious why you are trying to obfuscate your response.
That does not actually specify what utility you were thinking about but
failed to mention, a utility - as it turns out - is not only reporting
S.M.A.R.T. attributes but performing *other* tasks, like retrieving and
parsing the firmware string.

Since you chose to be obtuse, "REPORT" adds no further clarification to
"SMART". You didn't determine how to retrieve the firmware string. I
did that despite your vague response.

Yes, you can use the drive maker's own utility to get that
info since they know how to retrieve the firmware string.

And any even halfway decent SMART report includes it too.

Not if it only retrieve the S.M.A.R.T. data. The device's firmware
screen is not part of the S.M.A.R.T. specifiction. The firmware string
was retrievable on devices that provided it before S.M.A.R.T. even
showed up.

I was hoping there were 3rd party utilities that would
extract the hardware ID from the device's firmware.

There are, they are called SMART utes.

Doesn't require a utility to read S.M.A.R.T. data (which does not
identify the device). Does require a utility that reads the firmware
string whether it also includes S.M.A.R.T. data or not.

You got caught claiming S.M.A.R.T. provides device identification and
now you're trying to cover your for your mistake.

Couldn't find anything that said getting S.M.A.R.T. data would
divulge the hardware ID (which contains maker and model)

You could have got real radical and had a look at the
SMART reports that are all over the web and seen the drive
manufacturer and model listed on almost all of those.

S.M.A.R.T. has no attributes to report the device identification. Any
of those so-called reports are the utilities retrieving MORE than just
the S.M.A.R.T. attributes.

Then I found:
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/...ID-MainBoard-I
http://www.soft.tahionic.com/downloa...code/idex.html

So, yep, you have to query the devices to get their hardware ID string
and other device attributes. Not all utilities to retrieve the firmware
string parse out all values.

I can't think of a SMART ute that doesn't include the drive's manufacturer
and drive model number at the top of the SMART report.

Ah, so now you're finally admitting that S.M.A.R.T. does not provide
device identification and these utilities have to retrieve MORE than
just the S.M.A.R.T. attributes.

It also means you've admitted it is not required and ineffective to
retrieve S.M.A.R.T. attributes when the intent is to identify the
device.

HD Sentinel gives me most S.M.A.R.T. data and also parses
more out of the firmware string: VID, PID, hard disk model
ID (maker+model), firmware version, and serial number.

So as I said, there is no need to open the case to work out
what drive is being used in a particular external hard drive.

Yes, you explained that so well in your prior responses that no further
research was required to figure out what the **** you meant. Plus you
were wrong since S.M.A.R.T. does not identify the device.

S.M.A.R.T. and USB enumeration doesn't provide any of the ID info.

But almost all SMART reports do in fact have the drive manufacturer
and model listed at the top of the SMART report, presumably
because it can be handy to see which drive the report is about.

So unlike your original claim that S.M.A.R.T. identifies the device, I
have to instead use a program that retrieves the firmware string. That
utility may include S.M.A.R.T. data but it is not required nor relevant
to identifying the device. Lots of utilities do more than one thing.
Some only do one thing: what you want them to do and only that.

I had forgotten that I installed HD Sentinel. I have found other
tools, like those above, that will poll the devices to query for
their firmware string(s) to parse out values, like hardware ID.

So, like I said, there is no need to open the case to see
what drive is used in a particular external hard drive.

And, so, unlike you said, S.M.A.R.T. does not identify the device.