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A dying very old HDD confirmed?



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 20th 14, 11:28 AM posted to comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.periphs.hdd
Pascal Hambourg
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Posts: 20
Default A dying very old HDD confirmed?

Richard Kettlewell a écrit :
Pascal Hambourg writes:
Rod Speed a écrit :
Yeah, a few reallocated sectors are no big deal on a drive
that old.

However having Current_Pending_Sector or Offline_Uncorrectable = 1 is a
bit more annoying. It means that the data inside a sector is currently
unreadable and the embedded disk controller was unable to reallocate the
failing sector. In short, it means : data has been lost. Not too good
for a backup drive.


AIUI Current_Pending_Sector means the controller hasn't had the
opportunity to reallocate yet, not that it's tried and failed. But yes,
any reads from affected sectors can be expected to fail.


AFAIK the opportunity to reallocate a bad sector can come in two ways :
- the host writes new data into the sector, so the old unreadable data
become irrelevant ;
- the sector is read successfully and its data can be moved to another
location. Obviously, this did not happen.

Oh, another thing:

Not too bad if they don't keep increasing.


Normalized SMART values decrease towards failure.


I guess that Rod Speed meant the raw values, much more meaningful for
humans.
  #12  
Old April 20th 14, 01:19 PM posted to comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.periphs.hdd
Robert Nichols[_2_]
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Posts: 63
Default A dying very old HDD confirmed?

On 04/20/2014 01:16 AM, Ant wrote:
How come it can't complete the long tests though?


That is what concerns me. If it can't finish it, then something is going bad?


That test stops on the first error and will continue to fail until that
pending sector is reallocated, and that is not going to happen until
there is a WRITE operation to that sector. The steps for finding a bad
sector and writing to it are at

http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/badblockhowto.html

That is a fairly lengthy HOWTO, but it deals with several different
scenarios, and you will be concerned with only a small part of it.

--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"
  #13  
Old April 20th 14, 05:54 PM posted to comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.periphs.hdd
Ant[_3_]
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Posts: 756
Default A dying very old HDD confirmed?

On 4/20/2014 5:19 AM PT, Robert Nichols typed:

How come it can't complete the long tests though?


That is what concerns me. If it can't finish it, then something is
going bad?


That test stops on the first error and will continue to fail until that
pending sector is reallocated, and that is not going to happen until
there is a WRITE operation to that sector. The steps for finding a bad
sector and writing to it are at

http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/badblockhowto.html

That is a fairly lengthy HOWTO, but it deals with several different
scenarios, and you will be concerned with only a small part of it.


Thanks. FYI, I haven't gotten any new e-mail notifications about this
drive a day later. That's good so far!
--
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  #14  
Old April 20th 14, 05:57 PM posted to comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.periphs.hdd
Ant[_3_]
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Posts: 756
Default A dying very old HDD confirmed?

On 4/20/2014 5:19 AM PT, Robert Nichols typed:

How come it can't complete the long tests though?


That is what concerns me. If it can't finish it, then something is
going bad?


That test stops on the first error and will continue to fail until that
pending sector is reallocated, and that is not going to happen until
there is a WRITE operation to that sector. The steps for finding a bad
sector and writing to it are at

http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/badblockhowto.html

That is a fairly lengthy HOWTO, but it deals with several different
scenarios, and you will be concerned with only a small part of it.


I noticed this doesn't mention EXT4, but then the document hasn't been
updated since 1/23/2007. Are these instructions still valid and safe for
EXT4?
--
"Jesus lives!"
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  #15  
Old April 20th 14, 08:50 PM posted to comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.periphs.hdd
Rod Speed
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Posts: 8,559
Default A dying very old HDD confirmed?

Pascal Hambourg wrote
Rod Speed wrote


Yeah, a few reallocated sectors are no big deal on a drive that old.


However having Current_Pending_Sector or Offline_Uncorrectable = 1
is a bit more annoying.


Sure, but only a little.

It means that the data inside a sector is currently
unreadable and the embedded disk controller
was unable to reallocate the failing sector.


Only with the offline uncorrectable sector.

In short, it means : data has been lost.


That assumes that the data in it is of any value.

Not too good for a backup drive.


Its just a complete yawn for me, I never have just one
backup and hardly ever actually need to use a backup
anyway, and its very unlikely that I will need the data
in that particular sector even if I do use the backup
and since its not the only backup, its no more than
a very minor nuisance.
  #16  
Old April 20th 14, 08:52 PM posted to comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.periphs.hdd
Rod Speed
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Posts: 8,559
Default A dying very old HDD confirmed?

Richard Kettlewell wrote
Pascal Hambourg wrote
Rod Speed wrote


Yeah, a few reallocated sectors are no big deal on a drive that old.


However having Current_Pending_Sector or Offline_Uncorrectable = 1
is a bit more annoying. It means that the data inside a sector is
currently
unreadable and the embedded disk controller was unable to reallocate
the failing sector. In short, it means : data has been lost. Not too good
for a backup drive.


AIUI Current_Pending_Sector means the controller hasn’t had the
opportunity to reallocate yet, not that it’s tried and failed. But yes,
any reads from affected sectors can be expected to fail.


Oh, another thing:


Not too bad if they don't keep increasing.


Normalized SMART values decrease towards failure.


I wasn’t talking about the normalised SMART values,
I was talking about the actual raw sector counts with
those bad sectors.

  #17  
Old April 21st 14, 01:35 AM posted to comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.periphs.hdd
cjt
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Posts: 23
Default A dying very old HDD confirmed?

On 04/20/2014 02:50 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
Pascal Hambourg wrote
Rod Speed wrote


Yeah, a few reallocated sectors are no big deal on a drive that old.


However having Current_Pending_Sector or Offline_Uncorrectable = 1 is
a bit more annoying.


Sure, but only a little.
It means that the data inside a sector is currently unreadable and the
embedded disk controller was unable to reallocate the failing sector.


Only with the offline uncorrectable sector.
In short, it means : data has been lost.


That assumes that the data in it is of any value.
Not too good for a backup drive.


Its just a complete yawn for me, I never have just one backup and hardly
ever actually need to use a backup
anyway, and its very unlikely that I will need the data
in that particular sector even if I do use the backup and since its not
the only backup, its no more than
a very minor nuisance.


Many decent size systems suffer from silent data loss, anyway, and
hardly anybody seems to notice.
  #18  
Old April 21st 14, 01:56 PM posted to comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.periphs.hdd
Robert Nichols[_2_]
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Posts: 63
Default A dying very old HDD confirmed?

On 04/20/2014 11:57 AM, Ant wrote:
On 4/20/2014 5:19 AM PT, Robert Nichols typed:

How come it can't complete the long tests though?

That is what concerns me. If it can't finish it, then something is
going bad?


That test stops on the first error and will continue to fail until that
pending sector is reallocated, and that is not going to happen until
there is a WRITE operation to that sector. The steps for finding a bad
sector and writing to it are at

http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/badblockhowto.html

That is a fairly lengthy HOWTO, but it deals with several different
scenarios, and you will be concerned with only a small part of it.


I noticed this doesn't mention EXT4, but then the document hasn't been updated
since 1/23/2007. Are these instructions still valid and safe for EXT4?


All it depends on is a version of debugfs that is compatible with the
filesystem, and that's just to identify the file (if any) that is
currently using the bad sector. Note that the "LBA_of_first_error"
reported by the offline test may not be precise. It could be just
the start of a block that contained the bad sector. You can use
"hdparm --read-sector ..." to try to pin that down.

--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"
  #19  
Old April 22nd 14, 12:31 AM posted to comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.periphs.hdd
Pascal Hambourg
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Posts: 20
Default A dying very old HDD confirmed?

Ant a écrit :

Although, I noticed smartctl's Reallocated_Sector_Ct went from 6 to 7
when I checked the old HDD's SMART datas. Is that going up too fast
within two/2 days, Rod? See below for the latest smartctl results:

[...]
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail
Always - 7
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age
Offline - 0


Apparently it is only the previously pending unreadable sector which
eventually got reallocated, so no new error.
  #20  
Old April 22nd 14, 03:02 AM posted to comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.periphs.hdd
Ant[_3_]
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Posts: 756
Default A dying very old HDD confirmed?

On 4/21/2014 4:31 PM PT, Pascal Hambourg typed:

Although, I noticed smartctl's Reallocated_Sector_Ct went from 6 to 7
when I checked the old HDD's SMART datas. Is that going up too fast
within two/2 days, Rod? See below for the latest smartctl results:

[...]
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail
Always - 7
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age
Offline - 0


Apparently it is only the previously pending unreadable sector which
eventually got reallocated, so no new error.


Oh. So, how should I be reading its results to see if it is getting
worse quickly or not? I am confused.
--
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( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
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