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Is it me or are there many unreliable USB flash drives?



 
 
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  #81  
Old October 25th 16, 05:33 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 160
Default Is it me or are there many unreliable USB flash drives?

In article , Doc O'Leary
wrote:

it was defective. hd ipods might get warm but never blazingly hot.


It was operating fine *for how it was designed*. Which was to
*briefly* use the HD to transfer music either to sync with the
computer or into RAM to play it. It was *not* designed to be
constantly used as a Firewire drive.


actually, it was.

ipods could be put into firewire disk mode which kept the disk spinning
continuously.

spinning up the drive for a few seconds to cache music into memory was
done to extend battery life, not reduce heat.

in fact, apple had planned on ipods being used for portable home
folders in panther. however, that feature was dropped for unknown
reasons, almost certainly due to issues with syncing (which they still
can't get right), not heat.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/06/...home_on_ipod_f
eature_resurfaces_in_filing
"Ever thought you could carry your home in the palm of your hands or
in your pocket? You can. Panther's Home on iPod feature lets you
store your home directory - files, folders, apps - on your iPod (or
any FireWire hard drive) and take it with you wherever you go," Apple
had written in a blurb on its Panther preview website that was
eventually removed.

"When you find yourself near a Panther-equipped Mac, just plug in the
iPod, log in, and you're 'home,' no matter where you happen to be,"
the description continued. "And when you return to your home
computer, you can synchronize any changes you've made to your files
by using File Sync, which automatically updates offline changes to
your home directory."

Stop talking like youąre an authority on all things. You come
across like just another nameless idiot when you do that.


nothing more than insults. cite facts, if you have any.

i'm not making a blanket assumption. i'm saying that a lot of usb flash
drives run warm, sometimes even hot, without any issue. it's not
unusual and not necessarily the reason why something might fail.


You have no idea what may or may not be łunusual˛ for any particular
device when you havenąt even seen the manufacturerąs specs. Keep
quiet on such matters until you educate yourself.


neither do you.

a manufacturer is not going to intentionally release a product that
runs outside its own design specs.

a lot of products run hot without any issue, including hard drives, usb
sticks and many other things. it's almost always normal.

i have a few 7200 rpm hard drives that run so hot i can't even touch
the drive itself. the enclosure gets *very* warm.
  #82  
Old October 25th 16, 08:59 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,559
Default Is it me or are there many unreliable USB flash drives?

Computer Nerd Kev wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Computer Nerd Kev wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Computer Nerd Kev wrote
nospam wrote
Computer Nerd Kev wrote


There are USB voltage meters sold cheaply on Ebay to
show if the USB voltage from a computer is too high/low.
If the USB voltage was far too high, the extra energy
would cause excessive heating of the drive.


if the voltage was too high, not only would it not
be usb compliant, but it would likely fry anything
plugged into it, which is expecting a regulated 5v.


I don't mean by design (although anything's possible
with Chinese knock-off stuff, if that's involved), I mean
due to a failure of the computer hardware.


Now the 5V at the USB ports being high would often only make sense
if they were supplied by a separate line from the power supply.


They are in desktops. That's the whole point of the +5V standby line.


No it isn't.


Yes it is.


The 5V Standby line is to enable the motherboard hardware
to detect when the power switch is pressed, and on many
motherboards it is used to power additional functions
while the computer is off as well.


Like the USB so moving the mouse will wake
the system if you have set it up like that.


Standby 5V isn't there for when the computer is in standby,


Corse it is. You don’t need 2A to be able to
detect that the power button has been pressed.

but when it's (as far as the user is concerned) powered off
- look it up, or just plug a working power supply in to the
mains and look for the standby 5V even when there's no
motherboard attached and it's in its powered-off state -
there'll be 5V on the "standby" supply line.


Irrelevant to the fact that its there to power the USB when
the system is turned off so you can turn it on by moving
the mouse, tapping the keyboard, and with wake on lan etc.

Actually, I'm such a nice guy that I've found a link for you:
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/sup...ftPower-c.html


Irrelevant to what is being discussed, as always with your ****.

If the internal computer components and the USB ports were
both subjected to a failure of the 5V voltage regulation, it
would be very likely to destroy the computer without the
user having any time to worry about their USB accessories.


Depends on how much its out by. Certainly if its out by enough
to see what normally stays at room temp get very hot when
doing nothing with just the USB stick plugged in, doing nothing.


The maximum voltage ratings would probably only be known
by the memory stick IC manufacturers and their clients,


Wrong again, its obviously in the specs of the ics.


Which most often won't be viewable by the general public.


Irrelevant.

What's the actual model number of the flash chips in your memory sticks?


Too hard to get into them and they arent mine to **** with anyway.

But again, irrelevant, because even if that was say 7V, that
isnt going to be enough so the memory sticks that don?t even
get warm when supplied with 5V when not doing anything
get very hot when they are supplied with 7V. Basic physics.


however 5.5V is a common design maximum.


Not with the absolute maximum above which you get damage.


Why I said design maximum. Absolute maximums are not always specified.


Bull****.

7V is common with some families of 5V ICs.


And even that isnt going to see a USB stick that
doesn’t even get warm when doing nothing, get
very hot when supplied with 7V due to a fault.

5.25V is the maximum PSU output under the ATX specification.


Irrelevant to a potential fault situation.


Just perspective.


Irrelevant waffle, actually.

Most desktop PCs have standard power supplies that
provide the USB 5V from the same lines as everything else,


That is just plain wrong. Its usually supplied by the +5V standby
line, so you can wake the system by moving the mouse etc.


so it is unlikely that an over-voltage situation
would only affect the USB ports.


You have that completely backwards.


A laptop, however, may have a separate power supply circuit
for the USB 5V. If this failed, and supplied too high a voltage, it
may not sevierely affect the normal operation of the computer.


In fact laptops are more likely to have a
separate +5V line for the same reason.


A power-boosted USB hub with a faulty or incorrectly
specified mains adapter powering it could also be a culprit.


the amount of current sourced is limited by
what the device negotiates from the host.


Current limiting only protects against an over-voltage situation
if the device requires more than the minimum current limit (500mA)
to be damaged. If an IC in the memory stick normally draws 20mA
at 5V, it may draw 28mA at 7V (this based on rough calculations:
5V / 0.02A = 250R 7V / 250R = 0.028A, but it proves the point),
however the IC may only be rated to sustain 5.5V, so it may be
damaged while only consuming 28mA. The rest of the components
in the memory stick will also be drawing additional power, but
you see that the total power draw is not increased enough to
hit the 500mA maximum if the stick normally draws, say, 100mA?


Another possibility, if you only ever use one USB port (or a group
of similarly affected ones) for testing these memory sticks, is
that a high resistance in the computer's USB socket is causing
the _socket_ to heat up, and the heat is being transferred
to the drives themselves via the USB connector. Here, not only
the heat, but also the coresponding reduced power to the memory
stick, may induce irrecoverable write errors or other failures.


unlikely.


Such failures are known to occour due to strain on solder joints
causing them to break, or joints that weren't correctly soldered
in the first place. It is a less common failure, but it's also
uncommon to consume large quantities of memory sticks.


But doesn?t explain why all the sticks get hot.


"a high resistance in the computer's USB socket is causing
the _socket_ to heat up, and the heat is being transferred
to the drives themselves via the USB connector."


Even sillier than you usually manage. That would see the
connector much hotter than the body of the stick itself.


YES. But with it mostly inside the computer,
the user is unlikely to notice that difference.


Bull****, particularly when they use an
extension so its easier to plug the stick in.

And you only get that sort of result with high
current devices anyway. USB sticks arent.

The socket is the bit in the computer.


Duh.


If the same socket/s are used,


It isnt. He gets the same problem with more than one computer.


Yep, and that bit of information means that this isn't
the problem, so I hereby terminate this argument,


You don’t get to terminate anything, ever.

my points all adequately made


You never had a point, just flaunted your pig ignorance
and complete lack of any diagnostic skill.

  #83  
Old October 25th 16, 10:14 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Computer Nerd Kev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default Is it me or are there many unreliable USB flash drives?

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Ant wrote:
In comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage nospam wrote:
In article , Ant
wrote:



luck has nothing to do with it. don't buy crap. simple as that.

Which brands of USB flash drives aren't crap then? SanDisk? PNY?


name brands.


I used name brands like SanDisk. :P


I think he's gone into "say anything that makes him sound right"
mode.

--
__ __
#_ |\| | _#
  #84  
Old October 26th 16, 01:09 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Lewis[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Is it me or are there many unreliable USB flash drives?

In message
Doc O'Leary wrote:
For your reference, records indicate that
nospam wrote:


it was defective. hd ipods might get warm but never blazingly hot.


It was operating fine *for how it was designed*. Which was to
*briefly* use the HD to transfer music either to sync with the
computer or into RAM to play it. It was *not* designed to be
constantly used as a Firewire drive.


It was. In fact, for a good deal of time, my 1st generation ipod was my
bootable installer for OS X.

--
Eyes the shady night has shut/Cannot see the record cut And silence
sounds no worse than cheers/After earth has stopped the ears.
  #85  
Old October 26th 16, 06:34 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Doc O'Leary[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Is it me or are there many unreliable USB flash drives?

For your reference, records indicate that
nospam wrote:

In article , Doc O'Leary
wrote:

it was defective. hd ipods might get warm but never blazingly hot.


It was operating fine *for how it was designed*. Which was to
*briefly* use the HD to transfer music either to sync with the
computer or into RAM to play it. It was *not* designed to be
constantly used as a Firewire drive.


actually, it was.


You provide no evidence that backs this claim. Show me some actual
design specs or I’m done with you.

ipods could be put into firewire disk mode which kept the disk spinning
continuously.


I know. I did it. It got hot as hell.

in fact, apple had planned on ipods being used for portable home
folders in panther. however, that feature was dropped for unknown
reasons, almost certainly due to issues with syncing (which they still
can't get right), not heat.


It is a mental error to simply *assume* unknown factors support
your claim. Are you also one of those nutters who sees a light in
the sky they can’t identify and just *knows* that it must be those
aliens from Blixnor looking to get all probe-y?

Perhaps they dropped it because the *did* try to do a redesign that
caused it to generate less heat, but failed. Perhaps they gave up
for the same reason they stopped allowing iDevices to be seen as
drives at all.

Stop talking like youÂąre an authority on all things. You come
across like just another nameless idiot when you do that.


nothing more than insults. cite facts, if you have any.


Fact: you use no identifiable name that can linked to anyone with
expertise on these matters. Fact: you have no internal or external
documents from Apple or any of the USB manufacturers discussed here
regarding their energy usage or heat dissipation. Fact: it’s not
an insult to call you out on your BS.

a manufacturer is not going to intentionally release a product that
runs outside its own design specs.


More know-nothing BS talk from you. Companies like Volkswagen
will even lie to government regulators about their product’s
specifications!

a lot of products run hot without any issue, including hard drives, usb
sticks and many other things. it's almost always normal.


Except when it isn’t. You’ve provided no evidence here that it
*is* normal, or that it won’t affect the lifespan of any of the
devices in question. Until you do, you need to speak less if you
don’t want to look more foolish.

i have a few 7200 rpm hard drives that run so hot i can't even touch
the drive itself. the enclosure gets *very* warm.


Where is your evidence that they’re operating in their acceptable
temperature range? And, again, it isn’t just about whether or not
they *exceed* that temperature, but what effect operating at higher
temperatures can have in general. Things tend to break more when
they experience a lot of thermal stress. To claim otherwise makes
you seem out of touch with reality.

--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly


  #86  
Old October 26th 16, 07:59 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Happy.Hobo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Is it me or are there many unreliable USB flash drives?

On 10-26-2016 12:34, Doc O'Leary wrote:
caused it to generate less heat, but failed. Perhaps they gave up
for the same reason they stopped allowing iDevices to be seen as
drives at all.


That can still be done. And although it's not as simple as one would
like, it's not terribly difficult.
  #87  
Old October 27th 16, 01:13 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Lewis[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Is it me or are there many unreliable USB flash drives?

In message
Doc O'Leary wrote:
For your reference, records indicate that
nospam wrote:


In article , Doc O'Leary
wrote:

it was defective. hd ipods might get warm but never blazingly hot.

It was operating fine *for how it was designed*. Which was to
*briefly* use the HD to transfer music either to sync with the
computer or into RAM to play it. It was *not* designed to be
constantly used as a Firewire drive.


actually, it was.


You provide no evidence that backs this claim. Show me some actual
design specs or I’m done with you.


Your poor memory doesn't change the fact that the original Firewire iPod
was specifically marketed as being able to boot your Mac, install OS X,
and operate as an external hard drive. I did it quite a lot, the iPod
was fine for about a decade until I traded it in for a credit on a new
iPod Touch.

--
Clicked "Debug" button. Program still has bugs. Wtf? - Rich Seigel
  #88  
Old October 27th 16, 04:19 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 160
Default Is it me or are there many unreliable USB flash drives?

In article , Doc O'Leary
wrote:

it was defective. hd ipods might get warm but never blazingly hot.

It was operating fine *for how it was designed*. Which was to
*briefly* use the HD to transfer music either to sync with the
computer or into RAM to play it. It was *not* designed to be
constantly used as a Firewire drive.


actually, it was.


You provide no evidence that backs this claim.


you didn't read very far. the evidence was in the post.

Show me some actual
design specs or Iąm done with you.


no loss.

ipods could be put into firewire disk mode which kept the disk spinning
continuously.


I know. I did it.


so did i.

It got hot as hell.


no it didn't.

it got warm (as expected for any hard drive), but it did not get hot as
hell unless something was *wrong*.

in fact, apple had planned on ipods being used for portable home
folders in panther. however, that feature was dropped for unknown
reasons, almost certainly due to issues with syncing (which they still
can't get right), not heat.


It is a mental error to simply *assume* unknown factors support
your claim. Are you also one of those nutters who sees a light in
the sky they canąt identify and just *knows* that it must be those
aliens from Blixnor looking to get all probe-y?

Perhaps they dropped it because the *did* try to do a redesign that
caused it to generate less heat, but failed. Perhaps they gave up
for the same reason they stopped allowing iDevices to be seen as
drives at all.


as i said, the *likely* reason they dropped it was because syncing was
problematic, something they still can't get right to this day and with
data that's easier to sync than a user's entire home folder.





i have a few 7200 rpm hard drives that run so hot i can't even touch
the drive itself. the enclosure gets *very* warm.


Where is your evidence that theyąre operating in their acceptable
temperature range? And, again, it isnąt just about whether or not
they *exceed* that temperature, but what effect operating at higher
temperatures can have in general. Things tend to break more when
they experience a lot of thermal stress. To claim otherwise makes
you seem out of touch with reality.


the only one who is out of touch is you. google, in their drive
testing, found that heat was not a major source of drive failure.

in fact, there was a much higher failure rate at *cooler* temperatures,
with a small increase at very hot temps.

https://tastyresearch.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/drives3.png
 




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