Creating a Dell diagnostic partition on a bare hard drive

Yes, you can create a Dell diagnostic partition on a bare hard drive. Or at
least I can. Or I did, and I can do it again, sometimes.

First, I tried with a pair of Dell Latitude notebooks, a C810 and a C840. The
user's guides give a clue that it is not possible, because they tell you to run
the diagnostics from either floppy or CD-ROM. No mention at all of diagnostic
partitions. The basic problem here is that the notebooks' BIOS does not give
enough menu choices for the F12 key boot menu. The choice to boot the
diagnostics is missing on these models.

However, I did succeed with a Dell Precision 360 for which one of my clients
wanted a larger hard disk than originally installed. Here's what I did using a
Windows 98 boot disk, RANISH partition editor, a CD burner on another system, a
download of the appropriate diagnostics from the Dell web site, and my own bare
hands.

1. Create a primary DOS partition on the drive using FDISK. I picked a
partition size of 40MB, but if you want to put more stuff in this partition,
make it larger.
2. Reboot, and format the partition to boot up Windows 98 with the command
FORMAT C: /S
3. Burn a CD with the unzipped diagnostics for your model of Dell computer.
Add a reboot command plus any other software you want on the partition.
4. Copy the contents of the CD to the C: drive of your target system. You can
organize the diagnostic partition with folders (directories) if you'd like.
5. Using the Win 98 EDIT command, create an AUTOEXEC.BAT text file something
like:
echo off
delldiags
reboot
and save the file as C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT . The three commands shown here assume
that both the Dell diagnostics and the reboot command are in the root directory
of the C: drive.
6. Reboot the system and make sure this all works, because it is a pain in the
ass to go back and fix it up. But it can be done. If you don't like what you
see, fix it now and test again before changing the partition type.
7. Run the RANISH partition editor (or PTEDIT), change the partition type to
0xDE (that's hexadecimal DE), make the partition NOT bootable, and save the new
partition sector.
8. Install your favorite operating system.
9. Now when you press the F12 key to see the boot options, one of them should be
menu choice #8 to access the diagnostic partition.

A couple of comments:

The tools to do this are pretty simple, but it really does help to know DOS
commands. More important than the tools, get things done in the right order.

The Ranish partition editor is an old-style DOS menu-based editor, but it does
work well. PTEDIT has a Windows look-and-feel, but it is downright crippled if
you don't load up a DOS-based mouse driver before using it... Ben Myers

ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote:
The Ranish partition editor is an old-style DOS menu-based editor,
but it does work well. PTEDIT has a Windows look-and-feel, but it
is downright crippled if you don't load up a DOS-based mouse driver
before using it... Ben Myers

Oh, yeah--I forgot to mention that. My autoexec.bat always loads a DOS
mouse driver, so I tend to forget what it's like trying to use ptedit
without a mouse. blush

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:34:28 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

Yes, you can create a Dell diagnostic partition on a bare hard drive. Or at
least I can. Or I did, and I can do it again, sometimes.




Isn't all this about the same thing as setting up a dual boot
situation and putting into the first partition, the files you want to
run? And instead of fdisk, I think Partition Magic is preferred now
but thats assuming cost isn't an issue.

I too started in dos and agree that even nowadays it helps to remember
the old days. Frankly I'm a bit rusty in some of the old dos things I
did (low levels, high levels, batch programming, etc..) but it's good
to have started in dos and them moved into windows. I've seen people
who just started in windows and when in trouble, have no clue what to
do outside windows.

It's a little different than a straight dual boot. The partition type is not
standard. The dual boot depends on the system BIOS recognizing the non-standard
partition type. To do it absolutely right, the diagnostic partition must be
created before the operating system partition... Ben Myers

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:12:34 -0600, Patrick wrote:

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:34:28 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

Yes, you can create a Dell diagnostic partition on a bare hard drive. Or at
least I can. Or I did, and I can do it again, sometimes.




Isn't all this about the same thing as setting up a dual boot
situation and putting into the first partition, the files you want to
run? And instead of fdisk, I think Partition Magic is preferred now
but thats assuming cost isn't an issue.

I too started in dos and agree that even nowadays it helps to remember
the old days. Frankly I'm a bit rusty in some of the old dos things I
did (low levels, high levels, batch programming, etc..) but it's good
to have started in dos and them moved into windows. I've seen people
who just started in windows and when in trouble, have no clue what to
do outside windows.

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 05:10:47 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

It's a little different than a straight dual boot. The partition type is not
standard. The dual boot depends on the system BIOS recognizing the non-standard
partition type. To do it absolutely right, the diagnostic partition must be
created before the operating system partition... Ben Myers



Is this non-standard partition a hidden partition?

Ben Myers wrote:
It's a little different than a straight dual boot. The partition type is not
standard. The dual boot depends on the system BIOS recognizing the non-standard
partition type. To do it absolutely right, the diagnostic partition must be
created before the operating system partition... Ben Myers


Although it wouldn't have suited Ben's purpose (setting up the system
like it is from the factory), it's fairly simple procedure if you go the
dual boot route. Simply create a DOS partition, copy all the recovery
files there, and use a boot loader like Grub to access the partition
(instead of booting with F12). Assuming the partition is on the primary
master first partition, the grub entry is simply:

title Dell Utility
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1

Patrick wrote:
Isn't all this about the same thing as setting up a dual boot situation
....

It's a little different than a straight dual boot. The partition type
is not standard. The dual boot depends on the system BIOS
recognizing the non-standard partition type.

Is this non-standard partition a hidden partition?

Essentially, yeah, it's a kind of dualboot (though not that dopey scheme
Microsoft calls a dualboot). But instead of using an external boot manager,
the boot menu is built into the bios, and unlike an external boot manager
the user has no control over the bios boot menu. The built-in menu is
already there in the bios, intended for Dell's special purpose. Ben is just
trying to restore Dell's special purpose so the menu option isn't orphaned.
(I'm the one who is co-opting it for additional purposes.)

Note it's the partition table indicator that's non-standard, not the actual
partition itself (which is a standard FAT16 partition). The non-standard
partition-type indicator in the partition table has the effect of making the
partition "hidden" to normal operating systems in other partitions. That's
no different than how standard boot managers or partition managers (like
PartitionMagic) hide a partition--they just change the partition-type
indicator in the partition table to a non-standard value (though by now
they've standardized what non-standard values they use g). The partition
itself is never altered, only the partition table. Any non-standard value
will effectively hide a partition, but Dell has chosen to use 0xDE because
nobody else uses it, and thus they can customize their bios to look for it.
Dell does this deliberately so it doesn't interfere with the main OS when
Windows boots normally.

Note that "hidden" has always been something of a misnomer--a better term is
"disguised". Even when standard boot managers or partition managers (like
PartitionMagic) "hide" a partition, that doesn't make it invisible to
Windows--Windows knows it's there, but the non-standard partition-type
indicator fools Windows into not trying to read or use it. Look at a hidden
partition in XP's Disk Management snap-in and it will be there, but it will
be listed as "(Unknown Partition)" and won't have a drive letter.

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:53:44 GMT, "dg1261"
wrote:


Patrick wrote:
Isn't all this about the same thing as setting up a dual boot situation
...

It's a little different than a straight dual boot. The partition type
is not standard. The dual boot depends on the system BIOS
recognizing the non-standard partition type.

Is this non-standard partition a hidden partition?

Essentially, yeah, it's a kind of dualboot (though not that dopey scheme
Microsoft calls a dualboot). But instead of using an external boot manager,
the boot menu is built into the bios, and unlike an external boot manager
the user has no control over the bios boot menu. The built-in menu is
already there in the bios, intended for Dell's special purpose. Ben is just
trying to restore Dell's special purpose so the menu option isn't orphaned.
(I'm the one who is co-opting it for additional purposes.)

Note it's the partition table indicator that's non-standard, not the actual
partition itself (which is a standard FAT16 partition). The non-standard
partition-type indicator in the partition table has the effect of making the
partition "hidden" to normal operating systems in other partitions. That's
no different than how standard boot managers or partition managers (like
PartitionMagic) hide a partition--they just change the partition-type
indicator in the partition table to a non-standard value (though by now
they've standardized what non-standard values they use g). The partition
itself is never altered, only the partition table. Any non-standard value
will effectively hide a partition, but Dell has chosen to use 0xDE because
nobody else uses it, and thus they can customize their bios to look for it.
Dell does this deliberately so it doesn't interfere with the main OS when
Windows boots normally.

Note that "hidden" has always been something of a misnomer--a better term is
"disguised". Even when standard boot managers or partition managers (like
PartitionMagic) "hide" a partition, that doesn't make it invisible to
Windows--Windows knows it's there, but the non-standard partition-type
indicator fools Windows into not trying to read or use it. Look at a hidden
partition in XP's Disk Management snap-in and it will be there, but it will
be listed as "(Unknown Partition)" and won't have a drive letter.




The only reason I brought up the dual boot question was because a long
time ago, I had set up some pc's that way (not currently tho) but I
never had a need for hidden partitions. Maybe it's not a bad idea to
do it again with a hidden partition with certain handy utils built in
to a menu. Others would rather just carry these handy utils on a cd
instead. But Ben had a good question or idea to consider even if we
don't do it Dell's way.

BTW, I haven't seen such a nice well written description / explanation
like this in a long time. Even tho I knew most (not all) of what
you're saying, I couldn't have explained it as well as you. Are you a
writer by chance?? Thanks for taking the time to explain it so well.

The partition is hidden only in the sense that it has a partition type which is
not recognized by Micro$oft operating systems. So it does not get assigned a
drive letter. Not sure how Linux would treat it... Ben Myers

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:09:12 -0600, Patrick wrote:

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 05:10:47 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

It's a little different than a straight dual boot. The partition type is not
standard. The dual boot depends on the system BIOS recognizing the non-standard
partition type. To do it absolutely right, the diagnostic partition must be
created before the operating system partition... Ben Myers



Is this non-standard partition a hidden partition?

Patrick wrote:

ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote:

Yes, you can create a Dell diagnostic partition on a bare hard drive. Or at
least I can. Or I did, and I can do it again, sometimes.

[Snip dual-boot stuff]

I too started in dos and agree that even nowadays it helps to remember
the old days. Frankly I'm a bit rusty in some of the old dos things I
did (low levels, high levels, batch programming, etc..) but it's good
to have started in dos and them moved into windows. I've seen people
who just started in windows and when in trouble, have no clue what to
do outside windows.

I have loved this delightful jaunt down memory lane to the BADD,
even if I did get a tad crabby with Brad Licastese [sorry, Brad].
Thanks, Ben, for starting us off on the journey.
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]