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#11
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Moving HDD to new identical computer
On 23/01/2016 16:35, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 09:55:28 -0500, Keith Nuttle wrote: On 1/23/2016 8:23 AM, edevils wrote: On 23/01/2016 01:39, Ashton Crusher wrote: My 2 week old Dell XPS developed some intermittent malady and even with a new motherboard and power supply the Dell Tech was not able to get it running again. Background: (you can skip to Question if you want) [...snip...] Question: So Dell is supposed to send me a brand new computer. Here's my question. The first computer had a regular 2T Hard drive as a "D" drive. It had a M.2 form factor SSD as the "C" drive. Since I have already installed all my programs on the original new computers C drive, and all my data on the original new computers D drive I'm thinking I should just swap in the drives from the original new computer that broke into the new one Dell is sending. The computer is supposed to be identical. I'm not worried about the D drive but If I do that will it somehow cause a problem with the C drive since the "asset tag" numbers, which the tech said get "put into the motherboard" are going to be different? Also I presume my Win10 was validated on the original computer and now it's going to be in a different computer. I hate to reinstall all the software on the new C drive but I don't want to create some other problem either. Counter-Question: Did they say you can keep the SSD drive? Isn't it part of the "bad" computer that is going to be replaced with a brand new computer? I think I would get rid of everything from the new computer CPU, hard drive, etc. You don't know what is wrong with the new computer, therefore you do not know what caused the unit to fail. What if there is a defect in the hard drive that caused a failure in one of the other system of the new computer. If that is so and you keep the new drive, you are risking the replacement and any computer you use it in. There will be those who explain why this can not be, BUT is it worth the hassle and the future risk to your computing pleasure? That is one of my concerns but the way the computer failed doesn't seem HD related to me. For the D drive (a rotating classic drive) for example, the computer sometimes started fine and other times would not even start to start even without the D drive connected. So that would see to rule out the D drive as the reason for it not being able to fire up. For the C drive, the SSD drive, when the computer did fire up it booted perfectly. I guess the C drive could be intermittently the problem but I don't see how it being bad would literally stop the computer from even powering on. This isn't that the computer powers on and gets a BSOD,.. when it worked, it worked perfectly, when it didn't work it simply refused to "accept" the fact that it was turned on, it acted like a dead power supply. If I were you, I would check that the brand new computer is working just fine *before* doing anything like removing disks or attaching disks. Actually I would not tamper at all with hardware for a while, let's say the first week, just to be on the safe side (apart from adding your old data disk in case you need it). If the brand new computer comes with Windows 10 preinstalled, I would leave that alone too. Just my 2 cents. |
#12
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Moving HDD to new identical computer
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:23:52 +0100, edevils
wrote: On 23/01/2016 16:51, Ashton Crusher wrote: [...] My hesitation with that, or with doing an image restore of the Old C SSD drive to the NEW C ssd drive, is whether there is any reason to think there is some key info on the C drive that literally ties the whole system to the asset tag and/or the windows activivation and by swapping drives I will have confused all of Dell record keeping. So I'm wondering if anyone thinks the physical swap of drives is going to move some "key numbers" that will make the New New computer appear to Dell and MS like its the old new computer and the next time I call if something breaks they'll say, that computer was replaced, that asset tag number is no longer valid or I'll get a pop up from MS saying "Your WINDOWS is not valid. I realize this may be an unanswerable question. I'm not worried about swapping the D drive but the C drive has me wondering. From the Dell community boards I gather that the Dell Asset Tag "is a secondary tag, set by the user in BIOS, that can be used by organizations to track a system for inventory purposes." There is a Service Tag too, which "can ONLY be set using a special non-public utility from Dell. Typically if your motherboard is replaced, you can boot to the BIOS and have a single attempt to set your Service Tag to the Service Tag of the machine/chassis. If not, then the utility is needed." Also, they say, "afaik the Service Tag is set by Dell and cannot be changed. The Asset Tag is something you can set for yourself. Source: http://en.community.dell.com/support.../19536263?db=5 From what they tech said, he was planning to boot it up and set the service tag into the motherboard. Since he could not get it to boot he could not proceed with any further diagnostics. |
#13
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Moving HDD to new identical computer
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:46:47 +0100, edevils
wrote: On 23/01/2016 16:35, Ashton Crusher wrote: On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 09:55:28 -0500, Keith Nuttle wrote: On 1/23/2016 8:23 AM, edevils wrote: On 23/01/2016 01:39, Ashton Crusher wrote: My 2 week old Dell XPS developed some intermittent malady and even with a new motherboard and power supply the Dell Tech was not able to get it running again. Background: (you can skip to Question if you want) [...snip...] Question: So Dell is supposed to send me a brand new computer. Here's my question. The first computer had a regular 2T Hard drive as a "D" drive. It had a M.2 form factor SSD as the "C" drive. Since I have already installed all my programs on the original new computers C drive, and all my data on the original new computers D drive I'm thinking I should just swap in the drives from the original new computer that broke into the new one Dell is sending. The computer is supposed to be identical. I'm not worried about the D drive but If I do that will it somehow cause a problem with the C drive since the "asset tag" numbers, which the tech said get "put into the motherboard" are going to be different? Also I presume my Win10 was validated on the original computer and now it's going to be in a different computer. I hate to reinstall all the software on the new C drive but I don't want to create some other problem either. Counter-Question: Did they say you can keep the SSD drive? Isn't it part of the "bad" computer that is going to be replaced with a brand new computer? I think I would get rid of everything from the new computer CPU, hard drive, etc. You don't know what is wrong with the new computer, therefore you do not know what caused the unit to fail. What if there is a defect in the hard drive that caused a failure in one of the other system of the new computer. If that is so and you keep the new drive, you are risking the replacement and any computer you use it in. There will be those who explain why this can not be, BUT is it worth the hassle and the future risk to your computing pleasure? That is one of my concerns but the way the computer failed doesn't seem HD related to me. For the D drive (a rotating classic drive) for example, the computer sometimes started fine and other times would not even start to start even without the D drive connected. So that would see to rule out the D drive as the reason for it not being able to fire up. For the C drive, the SSD drive, when the computer did fire up it booted perfectly. I guess the C drive could be intermittently the problem but I don't see how it being bad would literally stop the computer from even powering on. This isn't that the computer powers on and gets a BSOD,.. when it worked, it worked perfectly, when it didn't work it simply refused to "accept" the fact that it was turned on, it acted like a dead power supply. If I were you, I would check that the brand new computer is working just fine *before* doing anything like removing disks or attaching disks. Actually I would not tamper at all with hardware for a while, let's say the first week, just to be on the safe side (apart from adding your old data disk in case you need it). If the brand new computer comes with Windows 10 preinstalled, I would leave that alone too. Just my 2 cents. That's pretty much what I've decided. I'll get it going and set up windows. Then I will swap just the D drives, because the old-new one has all my data already on it. I will put in my backup storage drive which I store my Acronis backups on. And then install all my programs and let it perk for awhile. |
#14
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Moving HDD to new identical computer
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 11:45:11 -0500, Paul wrote:
Ashton Crusher wrote: On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 20:50:50 -0500, Paul wrote: Ashton Crusher wrote: My 2 week old Dell XPS developed some intermittent malady and even with a new motherboard and power supply the Dell Tech was not able to get it running again. Background: (you can skip to Question if you want) It was working perfectly, I had just finished all the major updating and setting up of my programs. I had the new computer on the kitchen table where it had been running and it turned it off, turned off my old computer, and swapped the two, meaning I disconnected all the wires from each, then moved the old computer out and put the new computer in where the old one had been. Hooked up all the wires (keyboard, mouse, power, speakers, Ethernet cable) and pushed the power button. NOTHING. Computer would not power on. Pulled the power cord out and used a different cord from a different outlet. Still nothing. Disconnected everything, took the computer to the table, pulled the side panel off, poked at the wires, put the side panel back on, put it back in position, hooked all the wires back up and pushed the button. Computer came on and worked perfectly. Shut it down. Pushed the power button. NOTHING. Called Dell and set up a tech to come and fix it. He arrived, pulled the side panel, poked some wires, pushed the button and it fired up and worked. Then turned it off and tried to restart.. nothing. So he put in a new motherboard. Hooked all back up. Pushed the power button.. Nothing. He put in a new power supply. Nothing. Disconnected the HDD I had put in that was a Storage drive that had been in the old computer. Pushed the button. It started. So he says "maybe your drive is bad". He power cycles. Tries to start it and NOTHING. So he disconnects ALL the drives. Still nothing. So he gives up, too many other things and he doesn't have every possible part. Question: So Dell is supposed to send me a brand new computer. Here's my question. The first computer had a regular 2T Hard drive as a "D" drive. It had a M.2 form factor SSD as the "C" drive. Since I have already installed all my programs on the original new computers C drive, and all my data on the original new computers D drive I'm thinking I should just swap in the drives from the original new computer that broke into the new one Dell is sending. The computer is supposed to be identical. I'm not worried about the D drive but If I do that will it somehow cause a problem with the C drive since the "asset tag" numbers, which the tech said get "put into the motherboard" are going to be different? Also I presume my Win10 was validated on the original computer and now it's going to be in a different computer. I hate to reinstall all the software on the new C drive but I don't want to create some other problem either. Well, that's a bit of a mess. The M.2 as C: should make this interesting. Normally my answer would be: "No problem. Image both drives using Macrium Reflect Free, to an external hard drive. Then restore as desired." So what's our first problem ? Your broken machine has the M.2, and you don't have another machine to install the M.2 . OK, you could shop for one of these. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA39V2UW6255 Fully compliant with PCI Express M.2 Specification Version 1.0 PWM Power IC / 1.4MHz 5.5V synchronous buck converter M.2 SSD input voltage: 3.3V ±5%, input max. current: 3A Translating from Chinese to English, that means it uses 5.0V from two USB connectors, to make 3.3V at 3A to power the solid state drive. Implying the M.2 runs off 3.3V. That's a total of ten watts. When the USB3 connector might handle 5V @ 0.9A each. 5V @ 1.8A total. Or around nine watts. So it's in the right ballpark. The 3A current flow, only flows if the device needs it, and a low-powered M.2 might not be all that stressful. You'd probably want to know a little bit about the M.2, look it up, it probably doesn't draw 10W or anything close to that. It would depend on the controller. If it had a controller designed by staff from SandForce, it might draw 7 watts, or if designed by other companies, perhaps half that power. So the purpose of owning an adapter cable like that, is so you can do maintenance on your spiffy new (fast) storage device. It gives you a Plan B, in case the Macrium emergency (WinPE based) boot CD doesn't have a driver for M.2 . ******* You could certainly move the storage devices to the new machine, image them using Reflect, then put the new drives back in, and restore to the new drives. Then put the old hardware (serial numbers and all) back into the old machine. So all the internal hardware matches the original manifest and you don't invoke the ire of the staff at Dell. The other tricky bit, would be whether the Macrium Reflect Free emergency boot CD, has a driver for an M.2 storage device. I don't have the details as to what the driver stack looks like for M.2 . You'd probably want the latest WinPE kit for Macrium Reflect Free, to try to get support. There are four different versions of WinPE or so, that you can select during download. I think I could pull this off, but it would probably involved a couple days cursing and swearing. Now, which is easier. Installing all the programs again, or imaging ? I have the spare drives here, to do something like that. What I don't have, is an M.2 to USB3 for emergencies. You can still move the assets around, between machines, but take note of the serial numbers before doing that. Yes, the staff at Dell are going to run a scanning wand over the internals, so they will check. I'm sure an infinite number of customers have tried to cheat them out of a nickel or two, by swapping in non-Dell hardware in the returned item. 1) New machine. Install Macrium Reflect Free. Create Macrium Reflect emergency boot disk. You need this to restore external_hard_drive MRIMG to internal M.2 drive. If you happen to own a USB3 to M.2 adapter, you may be able to arrange restoration on your technician machine. Even one with USB2 ports would do - as long as the M.2 doesn't draw too much power... 2) Now, with emergency boot CD in hand, install old_drive and old_M.2 into new computer. Image both storage devices to your external_drive. Optionally, you might want to consider doing a "factory restore" when the old_drive and old_M.2 are still in the computer. In the hope this will wipe C: of any personal items. You can augment this with a zero-fill of white space (using dd on Linux or Windows to get the job done). 3) Install new_drive and new_M.2 into the new computer. Boot with the macrium emergency CD. Restore both storage devices, using the MRIMG files created on the external_drive in step (2). There are many more details, such as trimming down what you backup and restore. You want C: certainly. It has your programs. The contents of the data drive D:, you could almost handle those with a simple copy from D: to external_drive, so really nothing fancy is needed there. So my idea is to preserve serial numbers, keep the contents of each box as Dell shipped it. And move the fiddly bits from one machine to the other with Macrium. The "mystery item" is whether there is anything special about accessing an M.2 from Macrium. If there were, a USB3 to M.2 adapter may give you another mechanism for dealing with it. You could even own two USB3 to M.2 adapters, but if the M.2 adapters were pigs, you might end up overloading the 5VSB rail of the power supply. Modern USB power comes from 5VSB - a typical supply might have 2.5A. So running a USB3 to M.2, assumes the M.2 is relatively low power. If the thing is a vicious pig, running two of them would be too much load for the 5VSB rail. This wasn't always an issue - on older motherboards, there used to be jumper blocks so the user could move some USB interfaces to run off the regular 5V rail. And that rail has at least 20 amps on it, so there would not be any anxiety regarding powering stuff like that. But they removed that header scheme at least five years ago. And decided it would be "more fun" to run it off the relatively weak 5VSB. That USB3 to M.2, could really use its own external adapter... There are other ways to get an M.2 into your technician computer. For backup and restore. I don't know enough about the various flavors of M.2 , to tell you what to watch out for. Knowing the model number of the M.2 (which is likely to use a popular brand), would probably help in your search for potential (Plan B) tools to use with it. I like to have Plan B materials on hand, before getting "wedged between a rock and a hard place". http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapte...er-card~PEX2M2 See, isn't technology fun ? Why do you think Paul doesn't own an M.2 ? :-) I certainly would not object to a standard 2.5" SSD drive, because with those, just about every modern computer I have here, could be used as the technician computer to handle that. I've owned a 2.5" SSD here, for a grand total of one day, before returning it because it was crap (a problem with slow sequential access). I tried to use it first, and ignored the temptation to benchmark it. But immediately discovered it wasn't very good at all, and I had to benchmark it anyway. Grrr. So of the many options available, to some extent the procedure you use, may be gated by the time available to do the transfer. Does Dell like to have two boxen on customer premises for long periods of time, or do you immediately have to ship back the defective one ? That's what I'd need to understand. Some companies handle things like this, with a CC charge for the second machine, placed against your card. Paul Paul, I may not have understood your reply but I'm not sure you quite got the picture of what I'm asking. I will have the OLD "new" machine. Then I will get the NEW machine. I'll have them both at the same time. They are supposed to literally be identical, clones, all the same parts. So I will have the disc drives from the OLD machine, (Seagate 2T D drive and a 256G SSD M.2 C drive) and at the same time I will also have the disc drives in the NEW machine. So my question isn't can I save the data on the current C and D drives, I've already got it all backed up with Acronis and I could do a restore. But why not just use the drives from the failed computer (I'm presuming the drives aren't what caused the failure) and simply swap the failed computers drives with the new replacements drives. My hesitation with that, or with doing an image restore of the Old C SSD drive to the NEW C ssd drive, is whether there is any reason to think there is some key info on the C drive that literally ties the whole system to the asset tag and/or the windows activivation and by swapping drives I will have confused all of Dell record keeping. So I'm wondering if anyone thinks the physical swap of drives is going to move some "key numbers" that will make the New New computer appear to Dell and MS like its the old new computer and the next time I call if something breaks they'll say, that computer was replaced, that asset tag number is no longer valid or I'll get a pop up from MS saying "Your WINDOWS is not valid. I realize this may be an unanswerable question. I'm not worried about swapping the D drive but the C drive has me wondering. The license key is in the BIOS, so the materials are at hand to fix any problem. I don't know if you're going to have to "click something" or not. Commands for dealing with licensing issues are "slui" and "slmgr" or "slmgr.vbs". I don't know of anything specifically tailored to your situation, so would assume this is "all automated" in your case. It should "just work". If not, maybe you could try "slui 6" from an administrator command prompt window (accessible by right-click of Start button) and do it from there. http://windowsitpro.com/systems-mana...e-command-line On a fresh install of Win10, the newly booted OS would fetch the key from the BIOS automatically. What I can't predict, is if a token is already sitting on the C: drive, and doesn't match, is the logic in Win10 smart enough to pull the key from the BIOS again, and reactivate it without you knowing/seeing/caring. I don't know the answer to that. I presume "slui 6" would give some sort of appropriate option, if the process wasn't automated. In the past this was certainly automated with SLIC activation. But I don't know if the new licensing method (MSDM table instead of SLIC table) works the same way or not. You will face that issue, whether doing the right thing with the hardware components or not. If you put the OLD components in the NEW machine, and put the NEW components into the OLD machine before shipping it back, then the "stock keeping" will be screwed up. I'll leave it to you and Dell, to work out whether this is a problem or not. Dell should certainly be able to use the serial numbers on the storage components, and figure out you've done the swap in question. Paul I decided to just start over except I"m going to switch the D drives between the old-new machine and the new-new machine since I've got all my data on it. While this has been going on I put the old-new D drive in an external USB enclosure hooked to the old computer so it's got all the up to date data on it. Although I am toying with the notion of using Actonis to clone the old-new to the new-new. Seems like more trouble then it's worth though since I have to pull the new-new D out to get my backup drive mounted next to it inside the new-new computer. |
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