What inkjet printer prints the best text?

TJ wrote:

.... snip ...

Burt, take note - This thread is cross-posted to 3 newsgroups. Kony
could well be a regular of one other than comp.periphs.printers.

SIGH. I should learn not to post anything about Linux anywhere but a
Linux group if I don't want to start a flame war. Wasn't my intention.

Why? If a Linux installation will solve a problem, it is a
suitable answer. It is certainly cheaper and more maintainable
than anything from Microsoft.

--
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy New Year
Joyeux Noel, Bonne Annee.
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
http://cbfalconer.home.att.net



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tony wrote:

Not sure I want to continue this thread but here is a last attempt
to clarify what I said.

The original post to which I replied said that Vista was crap and
provided some links as evidence. These links are outdated and now
largely irrelevant. I said that I have many customers who are happy
with Vista so it is NOT just my personal experience, I expressed an
opinion based on real world experience (both mine and my customers).
My opinions are absolutely NOT subjective, they are based on
objective observations (there is nothing more objective than
actually running a business, which my customers all do).

For many, Vista works. I speak of many installations, well over
100, none have had to consider going back to their previous OS. I
have many customers who have no plans to migrate to Vista and that
is exactly what I would expect, why migrate until there is a reason
to do so.
....

Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
irrelevant material. See the following links:

--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/ (taming google)
http://members.fortunecity.com/nnqweb/ (newusers)



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

You should of course continue to post which ever way you prefer. I will do the
same.
I have no difficulty understanding posts that follow any of the conventions
used in Usenet, including top posting, even if they are mixed!
I agree that irrelevant material should be snipped and I have done that for
this reply.
Tony

CBFalconer wrote:

Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
irrelevant material.

You keep changing your predications. First of all I am mysteriously making a
buck out of Vista and when I explain that your assumption was wrong I
apparently have another agenda (duh).
It's a fairly good trick to keep changing the ground rules in Usenet but not at
all hard for anybody with an iota of intelligence to see through.
Your posts are full of obfuscation and no longer worth reading. Hang on to one
word - Balance - something that is lacking in your "contribution" to this
thread.
End of thread as far as I'm concerned.
Tony (not posted anonymously)

kony wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:55:58 -0600, Tony
wrote:

Not sure I want to continue this thread but here is a last attempt to clarify
what I said.
The original post to which I replied said that Vista was crap and provided
some
links as evidence. These links are outdated and now largely irrelevant.

No, they aren't largely irrelevant. You can say it 100
times and it won't be more true than the first. Did you
actually read the links? Quite a lot of the information was
not just about some minor bug that's been patched.



I said that I have many customers who are happy with Vista so it is NOT just
my
personal experience, I expressed an opinion based on real world experience
(both mine and my customers). My opinions are absolutely NOT subjective, they
are based on objective observations (there is nothing more objective than
actually running a business, which my customers all do).


The number of people discontent with Vista is staggering.
Online polls bear this out. Perhaps you live in an
alternate reality where your customers aren't normal, or
perhaps you simply don't hear about their problems. Lots of
people don't take up problems with the seller of the system,
and the truth is all the bugs you are claiming are ok and
being fixed, are indeed bugs they are subject to.

By claiming it's getting better and will be better still
after the service pack, you are simultaneously conceding it
needs work - which is not the state an OS should be in for
serious use.



For many, Vista works. I speak of many installations, well over 100, none
have
had to consider going back to their previous OS.

"Had to consider" is a very vague concept. The factors
effecting viability of the OS are numerous. It may not be
the worst OS ever written, but claiming they didn't "have"
to use something else is beside the point that they may have
been better off using something else, and may actually have
problems or did have them, and we do know that these service
packs and patches aren't on a whim - they are indeed to
correct problems.

So basically you are ignoring your customers have problems
with the OS and saying it's ok if it's problematic because
another OS was problematic - but that other OS ISN'T so
problematic now.

It is arbitrary to make an excuse that in some point in the
past of computer history, something wasn't any worse, when
the relevant comparison is what the alternatives are right
now.


I have many customers who have
no plans to migrate to Vista and that is exactly what I would expect, why
migrate until there is a reason to do so.
I don't make a buck out of Vista so none of this is self serving (a pity you
made that assumption);

Self-serving doesn't have to mean making a buck, it can be
about ego and it certainly seems it is - because you so
easily dismiss that things are supposed to get better after
a service pack. How about waiting until things are hinging
on packs to fix things you thought were significant enough
to mention a service pack? Obviously you concede there are
problems but decide that's ok for others to deal with
because the service pack will *probably* fix something or
other - but historically, certainly not all problems and
probably new problems will arise from the service pack.



in fact I do not and never have marketed or sold any
Microsoft product or service. My company is highly specialised and we stick
to
our core business, any and all questions regarding which OS or applications
or
internal hardware to use are referred to the customer's IT service provider
(we
never operate as an IT business). The only involvement we have with OS' is
providing advice as to whether a particular printer or imaging device will
work
with a particular OS and this can be Windows, Linux, MAC and in rare
circumstances some specialised industrial OS'.
I answered the original comment because it was clearly biased, accusing me of
bias because I attempted to provide some balance is laughable.
Have a safe and happy Christmas.
Tony

It's not balance to brush aside concerns and then backstep
to say upcoming patches somehow justify using a product that
doesn't yet have these patches applied. Can't have it both
ways, your own argument fouled you up.

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:55:58 -0600, Tony
wrote:

Not sure I want to continue this thread but here is a last attempt to
clarify
what I said.
The original post to which I replied said that Vista was crap and provided
some
links as evidence. These links are outdated and now largely irrelevant.

No, they aren't largely irrelevant. You can say it 100
times and it won't be more true than the first. Did you
actually read the links? Quite a lot of the information was
not just about some minor bug that's been patched.



I said that I have many customers who are happy with Vista so it is NOT
just my
personal experience, I expressed an opinion based on real world experience
(both mine and my customers). My opinions are absolutely NOT subjective,
they
are based on objective observations (there is nothing more objective than
actually running a business, which my customers all do).


The number of people discontent with Vista is staggering.
Online polls bear this out. Perhaps you live in an
alternate reality where your customers aren't normal, or
perhaps you simply don't hear about their problems. Lots of
people don't take up problems with the seller of the system,
and the truth is all the bugs you are claiming are ok and
being fixed, are indeed bugs they are subject to.

By claiming it's getting better and will be better still
after the service pack, you are simultaneously conceding it
needs work - which is not the state an OS should be in for
serious use.



For many, Vista works. I speak of many installations, well over 100, none
have
had to consider going back to their previous OS.

"Had to consider" is a very vague concept. The factors
effecting viability of the OS are numerous. It may not be
the worst OS ever written, but claiming they didn't "have"
to use something else is beside the point that they may have
been better off using something else, and may actually have
problems or did have them, and we do know that these service
packs and patches aren't on a whim - they are indeed to
correct problems.

So basically you are ignoring your customers have problems
with the OS and saying it's ok if it's problematic because
another OS was problematic - but that other OS ISN'T so
problematic now.

It is arbitrary to make an excuse that in some point in the
past of computer history, something wasn't any worse, when
the relevant comparison is what the alternatives are right
now.


I have many customers who have
no plans to migrate to Vista and that is exactly what I would expect, why
migrate until there is a reason to do so.
I don't make a buck out of Vista so none of this is self serving (a pity
you
made that assumption);

Self-serving doesn't have to mean making a buck, it can be
about ego and it certainly seems it is - because you so
easily dismiss that things are supposed to get better after
a service pack. How about waiting until things are hinging
on packs to fix things you thought were significant enough
to mention a service pack? Obviously you concede there are
problems but decide that's ok for others to deal with
because the service pack will *probably* fix something or
other - but historically, certainly not all problems and
probably new problems will arise from the service pack.



in fact I do not and never have marketed or sold any
Microsoft product or service. My company is highly specialised and we
stick to
our core business, any and all questions regarding which OS or
applications or
internal hardware to use are referred to the customer's IT service
provider (we
never operate as an IT business). The only involvement we have with OS' is
providing advice as to whether a particular printer or imaging device will
work
with a particular OS and this can be Windows, Linux, MAC and in rare
circumstances some specialised industrial OS'.
I answered the original comment because it was clearly biased, accusing me
of
bias because I attempted to provide some balance is laughable.
Have a safe and happy Christmas.
Tony

It's not balance to brush aside concerns and then backstep
to say upcoming patches somehow justify using a product that
doesn't yet have these patches applied. Can't have it both
ways, your own argument fouled you up.

Ahhhh...the attack dog strikes again. Pay attention, Measekite - you can
learn from this guy. Better sentence structure and vocabulary, but a
similar snarl.

CBF - on the other hand, I was admonished for bottom posting a question on
the Excel NG. Can't win with some people!

"CBFalconer" wrote in message
...
Tony wrote:

Not sure I want to continue this thread but here is a last attempt
to clarify what I said.

The original post to which I replied said that Vista was crap and
provided some links as evidence. These links are outdated and now
largely irrelevant. I said that I have many customers who are happy
with Vista so it is NOT just my personal experience, I expressed an
opinion based on real world experience (both mine and my customers).
My opinions are absolutely NOT subjective, they are based on
objective observations (there is nothing more objective than
actually running a business, which my customers all do).

For many, Vista works. I speak of many installations, well over
100, none have had to consider going back to their previous OS. I
have many customers who have no plans to migrate to Vista and that
is exactly what I would expect, why migrate until there is a reason
to do so.
...

Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
irrelevant material. See the following links:

--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/ (taming google)
http://members.fortunecity.com/nnqweb/ (newusers)



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Burt wrote:

TJ - I also had to dump a Visioneer scanner when I updated to a new
Windows version. Visioneer didn't update their drivers. The scanner
wasn't very old. Last Visioneer scanner to grace my desk. In fairness,
technology and associated software for scanners had advanced to the
point where it was actually a blessing after the fact.

Which model? I have 5, maybe 7-8 year old lower-end
Visioneers that still worked on XP. I'd have replaced them
long ago but they keep running so... one of them will be
replaced if I ever need to use it to scan more than text as
it's CCFL is starting to dim some so it is mostly suited for
text scanning now.
In my case, the Visioneer in question is the OneTouch 7600 USB. I bought
it from Office Max something like 7 years ago for $20 after rebate. The
oddball chipset it uses(What WAS that chipset called? E3? Something like
that.) was also used by at least two other scanner brand names, though I
expect they were probably all made by the same manufacturer. I've never
used Windows XP, so I don't know if they issued a driver for it or not. I
used it with Windows 98SE. It worked great then and still works now, those
infrequent times when I fire up Windows and use it.

Mine was the first "one-touch" model. It used a parallel cable that also
connected a printer. All pre-USB stuff.

Ohmygod! I've been ripped off! I paid $39.95 at McFrugals.

My Visioneer scanner is a "Colorado Primascan 2400P." It's got a regular
Visioneer name, too, and probably other "brands." I put "brands" in
quotes because it's been a great long time since Memorex was a real
company. They buy stuff and sell stuff. Sometimes, like AT&T, GE
(Thomson), Timex, IBM, etc., they license other companies to use their
name. IBM chewing gum? You heard about it here, first, folks.
When you see products from these companies in unexpected places, read
the fine print on the box. Aha!

My scanner connects to the computer via a printer cable. At the same
time, virtually identical models were being sold with USB interfaces,
which I should have bought -- but didn't know.

No matter, Visioneer simply claims that the thing is, OS-specific,
therefore obsolete, and so they no longer have to support it with
updated drivers: which is arrogant Visioneer bull****.

Visioneer is one of those maddening companies who put a telephone moat
around their business to ensure that customers don't disturb them.

You can imagine my surprise when I just connected the scanner to my new
PC, running XP-Pro SP2, and it worked just fine. My only problem is that
something inside has been outgassing, and there's a resulting coating on
the inside of the glass. This has reduced the contrast. When I get
brave, it'll go onto my workbench and perhaps I'll be able to clean the
glass. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire thing
were held together with glue. A landfill princess.

Bubba
If you're in the West and you need a Bubba, here I am.

Tony wrote:
I have many customers who have
no plans to migrate to Vista and that is exactly what I would expect, why
migrate until there is a reason to do so.

I don't make a buck out of Vista so none of this is self serving (a pity you
made that assumption); in fact I do not and never have marketed or sold any
Microsoft product or service.

I think that Kony is a victim of his own tunnel vision. Well, I've had
my moments, too. No way, though, will I buy Vista right now. I'm a home
user, which is an important fact to bear in mind. I don't think that
Vista is ready for me. Yet.

Damned if I have any interest in bailing from XP; after all, it's not
been so long since MS worked out the significant bugs. Why jump into
buggy frying pan now?

My work demands that I maintain OS and software compatibility with my
clients. As they move to Vista, which they certainly will, I will have
to move with them. Regardless of whether I hate Microsoft or not (I do),
this will be my reality as it has been a few times earlier. Taking an
ostrich stance is not wise, in my case.

A friend does computer support for a major California city government.
Are they using Vista? No way. Are they studying Vista? You bet!
Quite intensely, in fact. It's simple: sooner or later, they're going to
change to Vista; they'll be forced to as their software providers
abandon XP into the back room of its "legacy" status. We've been there,
haven't we. Nobody in their data processing wants to have to face the
situation when, suddenly, all the firefighters' paychecks won't print!

Do I like the way Microsoft does business? What do you think? The only
way that they can maintain profitability is to force all their customers
to "upgrade." Killing competition helps them, too, and paying off
politicians to turn a blind eye toward restraint-of-trade and monopoly
behavior -- well, that's a reality, too.

We don't have much choice in this: it is. Will our hardware be
compatible? Don't count on it. That's life, too.

Me? As soon as I can do it without pain in my life, I'm going to convert
to an open-source, no bull**** OS. But that's not in my cards for the
present.

Meanwhile, Kony, please get off your granite plinth and get a life:
Tony's been a fine, selfless contributor to this NG; one of the few who
have considerable experience wherein of what he speaks. I'm glad to have
his input and guidance.

Richard
I couldn't agree with you more. If there is no reason to upgrade to Vista then
why do so? That however doesn't mean that Vista is bad, merely a fledgling.
I wasn't suggesting that people upgrade without good reason, only trying to
bring a bit of balance to a completely unbalanced thread. Not sure I should
have bothered however, it seems to me that once some people have established a
view they are completely immovable; hardly a path to enlightenment!
Tony

Richard Steinfeld wrote:
Tony wrote:
I have many customers who have
no plans to migrate to Vista and that is exactly what I would expect, why
migrate until there is a reason to do so.

I don't make a buck out of Vista so none of this is self serving (a pity you
made that assumption); in fact I do not and never have marketed or sold any
Microsoft product or service.

I think that Kony is a victim of his own tunnel vision. Well, I've had
my moments, too. No way, though, will I buy Vista right now. I'm a home
user, which is an important fact to bear in mind. I don't think that
Vista is ready for me. Yet.

Damned if I have any interest in bailing from XP; after all, it's not
been so long since MS worked out the significant bugs. Why jump into
buggy frying pan now?

My work demands that I maintain OS and software compatibility with my
clients. As they move to Vista, which they certainly will, I will have
to move with them. Regardless of whether I hate Microsoft or not (I do),
this will be my reality as it has been a few times earlier. Taking an
ostrich stance is not wise, in my case.

A friend does computer support for a major California city government.
Are they using Vista? No way. Are they studying Vista? You bet!
Quite intensely, in fact. It's simple: sooner or later, they're going to
change to Vista; they'll be forced to as their software providers
abandon XP into the back room of its "legacy" status. We've been there,
haven't we. Nobody in their data processing wants to have to face the
situation when, suddenly, all the firefighters' paychecks won't print!

Do I like the way Microsoft does business? What do you think? The only
way that they can maintain profitability is to force all their customers
to "upgrade." Killing competition helps them, too, and paying off
politicians to turn a blind eye toward restraint-of-trade and monopoly
behavior -- well, that's a reality, too.

We don't have much choice in this: it is. Will our hardware be
compatible? Don't count on it. That's life, too.

Me? As soon as I can do it without pain in my life, I'm going to convert
to an open-source, no bull**** OS. But that's not in my cards for the
present.

Meanwhile, Kony, please get off your granite plinth and get a life:
Tony's been a fine, selfless contributor to this NG; one of the few who
have considerable experience wherein of what he speaks. I'm glad to have
his input and guidance.

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:56:06 -0800, Richard Steinfeld
wrote:

Tony wrote:
I have many customers who have
no plans to migrate to Vista and that is exactly what I would expect, why
migrate until there is a reason to do so.

I don't make a buck out of Vista so none of this is self serving (a pity you
made that assumption); in fact I do not and never have marketed or sold any
Microsoft product or service.

I think that Kony is a victim of his own tunnel vision.

Am I?

There wasn't such a bachlash from consumers that OEMs
continued to offer Win9x when XP was released.

There weren't multiple websites claiming (the OS du jour)
had won worst product of the year when XP, ME, 98, 95, 3.1,
DOS, (take your pick), came out.

The truth is , never in the history of mankind have so many
people (revolted, I suppose a MS zealot would use this
term?) chose to avoid the next version of the software/OS
they were running.

Well, I've had
my moments, too. No way, though, will I buy Vista right now. I'm a home
user, which is an important fact to bear in mind. I don't think that
Vista is ready for me. Yet.

I don't think home user is relevant, at least not as you
imply, in a context. Businesses are rather bullish about OS
upgrade, it is startling how many still run Win98 or 2K. It
would not surprise me at all if more businesses still run
Win2k and '98, than Vista.



Damned if I have any interest in bailing from XP; after all, it's not
been so long since MS worked out the significant bugs. Why jump into
buggy frying pan now?

There is a good logic in this, let others be the beta
testers, but even moreso, the EULA and potential to lose
useability of the system keeps escalating.

My work demands that I maintain OS and software compatibility with my
clients. As they move to Vista, which they certainly will, I will have
to move with them. Regardless of whether I hate Microsoft or not (I do),
this will be my reality as it has been a few times earlier. Taking an
ostrich stance is not wise, in my case.

Agreed, an ostrich stance is not of benefit. At the same
time, benefit vs detriment must be weighed. If someone
expresses a clear need for Vista features, that being more
important to them subjectively, it is the better OS for
their use. That is unfortunately not what we're discussing
here, rather blanket statements about needs not mattering,
we should instead just wait for our needs to be met because
someday the sky will be rosey and all will be OK. That idea
is counter to productivity, using what already works without
making concessions.