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#21
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
Art
You are and always will be intriguing. No way to hide from that ;-) Tony Arthur Entlich wrote: Hi Richard, It is just easier to provide US law for a number of reasons. 1) Easier to find them on line. 2) much of Canadian case law is based upon US laws that have become a standard within industrialized countries. For instance, most of our copyright and patent law has been adopted under conventions with the major industrialized countries and most of that was written under US law first. Being major trading partners, and having an elephant in our bed means we often have to accommodate US regulation, so Canada has adopted much of their law when it comes to trade and international issues. 3) Litigation is a US past time, and there is 10 times the population there as in Canada, so there is bound to be much more documentation available from the US on these issues, and many more test cases. 4) I suspect that more people on this newsgroup are living in the US than probably the total of all other countries combined, and if not, they still represent the majority here, especially as an english language group. I am not suggesting anyone ignore all the other people from other locations, and that is why I made the comments that people from other areas should also make their voices heard in their locales. I hope I'm less intriguing now ;-) Art Richard Steinfeld wrote: Arthur, you have intrigued me. There you are in Canada, but you're talking about American laws, providing links to them, etc. ???????? Richard |
#22
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
On 09/03/2007 09:30 AM, Gary Tait wrote:
Arthur Entlich wrote in news:aJOCi.120973 $rX4.16160@pd7urf2no: Perhaps the answer is for someone to come up with a competitive model and try to educate people to pay more for the printers so that the ink doesn't end up the only profit engine. I don't know how profitable it would be (I personally think that the purchasing public are fine buying underpriced hardware and paying ongoing costs to use it), but I though of setting up a company whose purpose is to badge-order devices such as printers and sell them at actual fair market value for the hardware, and selling the consumables for what they are really worth, and not preventing 3rd party consumables. A smarter option would be to set up a company that produces printers that don't require bundled inks. BTW, what do you mean by "badge-order"? |
#23
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
Kodak is now making, or having made, their own printer designs with
their own ink formulations. They use pigment inks, and they claim to have lowered the prices of image printing with their business model. They claim cost per 4x6" at about 10 cents inclusive of paper. What does concern me is they are using the one black cartridge and one 5 color cartridge, and I have yet to get a straight answer on how they portion the different ink colors or how the drivers are set up in terms of the ink use. The problem with a 5 color cartridge is that if one color runs out that's the end of that cartridge, and with light cyan and light magenta, those often run out much sooner than the higher color load colors. There has been some discussion in this newsgroup about clogs, but the number of people currently owning these units seems to be small. Also, the only models out so far are all-in-one devices. The black cartridges list for $10 US, color for $15 US. If they continue in this market, it will be very interesting to see what comes of it. I agree about Eastman Kodak's tape (Video). Their broadcast videotape was one of the best I used. I believe it was made for them by TDK. I was saddened when it went off the market. Art Richard Steinfeld wrote: Arthur Entlich wrote: Although not yet available in Canada, and without comment about reliability or quality or other issues, Kodak is trying to break the business model currently in use, by charging more for the hardware and lowering prices on the consumables considerably. So far they haven't seems to make the splash I was hoping for (I don't know how they feel about it). I'm curious about this Kodak situation. Maybe they're moving into the market carefully and slowly. I'm not familiar with their inkjet printers at all. I can't think of any time that anyone here has discussed them! I can't recall ever seeing a Kodak inkjet for sale. I understand that they've been just rebadged machines from established manufacturers with incompatible cartridges. Anyone know? What kind of marketing has Kodak used already? Who sells their printers? But in this case, these are Kodak's own machines (or made for them) that are designed for their own ink formula. I wonder if Kodak has been experiencing resistance from the retailers, or de-facto threats of retaliation by the big boys in the field -- the type of thing that has happened in the supermarket business, where manufacturers actually have to pay the store for shelf space (!!!!), and Ben and Jerry's was locked out by other ice cream companies, causing a lawsuit that they won. I know of one example, far in the past, in which Kodak was defeated because they didn't have the right distribution chain. The product was recording tape -- the best that I have ever used. But camera stores aren't exactly the best place for people to buy recording tape, and that's where it was offered. How are they getting their printers on the shelf now? Richard |
#24
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
On Sep 3, 11:49 pm, measekite wrote:
There is no substantial competition making a quality product. They are protecting themselves from spending money on warranty service that is not justified and having a fly by night damaging their reputatuon. 1) There are quality after market products available, made by major ink manufacturers 2) Their reputation is not damaged at all, they can not by law require their consumable as a condition of the warranty, and even so products are locked out after the warranty period has expired. 3) How many years does a product by a given company until such time as they are no longer considered "fly by night" |
#25
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
On Sep 4, 1:22 am, "Mumia W." paduille.4061.mumia.w
wrote: I don't know how profitable it would be (I personally think that the purchasing public are fine buying underpriced hardware and paying ongoing costs to use it), but I though of setting up a company whose purpose is to badge-order devices such as printers and sell them at actual fair market value for the hardware, and selling the consumables for what they are really worth, and not preventing 3rd party consumables. A smarter option would be to set up a company that produces printers that don't require bundled inks. BTW, what do you mean by "badge-order"? I believe the parent is talking about... for example Dell sells printers, Lexmark is the OEM. Dell asks Lexmark to "badge" their printers and ink "Dell" so Dell can sell them on their own. Often Dell offers a free printer with computer, but that printer can only accept "Dell" ink, it won't accept Lexmark ink due to physical differences in the cartridges possible electronic keying. |
#26
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
Richard Steinfeld wrote in
: I'm curious about this Kodak situation. Maybe they're moving into the market carefully and slowly. I'm not familiar with their inkjet printers at all. I can't think of any time that anyone here has discussed them! I can't recall ever seeing a Kodak inkjet for sale. I understand that they've been just rebadged machines from established manufacturers with incompatible cartridges. Anyone know? I don't know about the current run. I know back in the past, they sold a line of printers based on the the HP Thinkjet technology. Near as I can tell, these new ones use a separate head, but a tri-color cartridge a black text cartridge, and will be chipped. If they use a removable head, and when they release separate colors, I'll consider it. |
#27
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
"Mumia W." wrote in
: BTW, what do you mean by "badge-order"? Kinda what Sears does to order Kenmore appliances. They order so many units manufactured with their "badge" applied to it, and will assume all support for it, either directly, or with some agreement with the manufacturer. |
#28
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
Barry Watzman wrote in news:46dc3c94$0$15413
: Somewhere in the middle there should be an acceptable medium, but at this point I don't think it's been found. The "point" to be quite literal would be where the consumable unit would mate with the non-comsumable device. While the printer manufacturer could patent ink storage and feed technology in the cartridge, they however could not prevnt 3rd party cartridge manufacturers from supplying non patent infringing containers and chips. |
#29
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
Gary Tait wrote: Barry Watzman wrote in news:46dc3c94$0$15413 : Somewhere in the middle there should be an acceptable medium, but at this point I don't think it's been found. The "point" to be quite literal would be where the consumable unit would mate with the non-comsumable device. While the printer manufacturer could patent ink storage and feed technology in the cartridge, they however could not prevnt 3rd party cartridge manufacturers from supplying non patent infringing containers and chips. This is America not dumbsville |
#30
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
Barry Watzman wrote:
"If we want our rights as consumers to be protected ...." The manufacturers do have some rights also. I understand not liking it, it makes things more expensive for us as consumers. But the manufacturers did put in huge up-front engineering effort to invent these things, and the did get patents on their products. Can't see the problem. Price all the products honestly. -- Jerry1111 |
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