Opinions on Dell and Dimensions please

"SLP" wrote in message
...

"M" wrote in message
...
"JULIAN HALES" wrote in
:



on the beebs watchdog tonight dell got a slating, over 600 complaints
uptil 93, no deliveries, cash taken out and bad bad service from
Indian telehlp


i meant 2003........




Damn I missed it, and I was feeling good about buying aswell. Hopefully
there'll be a late night signed repeat.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers, Mike

I missed it too, but it's repeated on Friday morning at 03:55.

If it's any consolation, I've installed a few hundred PC's for Dell over
the
last couple of years, and in nearly every case the customer has been more
than happy with the service they've received. Plus, I've only ever had to
reject two machines in all this time - one for a noisy fan and one for a
damaged graphics card that came loose in transit.

That's why I'm now happy to recommend them to family, friends and
customers,
etc.

SLP

al wrote:

"Paul Hopwood" wrote in message
In terms of suitability, pretty much any machine made in the last
couple of years would do so the spec you've chosen will be more than
adequate.


That's very true - the only concern you should have is that you may want to
still be using this machine in 3-5 years time. If so, get a better base to
build on. If not, replace more often if you find you use the machine for
more and more as time goes by and it runs out of oomph! For this price, you
can't really go too far wrong anyway!

Yes, think what you can spend on software. I'm also at a fork junction
whether I should take the low or the high road for my next PC. My P1 233MMX
is still OK (only 15 watt & runs without fan), it's an ultra reliable and
quiet quality machine (supermicro mb). Fine for inet and as file server
(40GB) for my laptop.

"M" wrote in message
...
£353 to £329-70. Saving me nearly £25 deserves a good drink - if only
there were a way of sending beer credits online

It's called paypal ;-)

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:35:28 -0000, "al"
wrote:

"M" wrote in message
.. .
Sorry should have been a bit more specific - I'd prefer something a
little faster since Par2 files can be a little time consuming. Also tbh
i'm not confident buying off Ebay.
As for W98, I know it and how I want it customised in terms of security,
progs (IE/OE eradicated),appearance etc, whereas there would be a
learning curve with XP which I'd rather spend playing with Linux.
Considering what I've read about other manufacturers in this newsgroup
'alright' is a glowing reference


Hey Mike ... I've had a Dell for 5.5 years now and it's been a very good
buy. The CDROM drive crapped out after a couple of years, but it would be
mean to blame Dell on that. Mine was close to top of the "standard" range
at the time when I bought it, thus the longevity of it. FYI, it's a PII 400
with 448MB of RAM. All I've ever done is replace the graphics card with a
TNT2 Ultra (like having a new machine again at the time!!) and adding more
RAM. I'm a very heavy PC user - games, Photoshop, video, web authoring.
Those two upgrades are the main things that helped me along.

Heh, I found that a 1.5 Ghz XP machine with 512 Mb memory was *just*
about usuable with Photoshop. Below that memory wise its irritating as
hell with all the disk thrashing and when went from a 466 to 1.5Ghz
the speed of operations was an amazing improvement.

As for the system you're suggesting I hope I can offer some helpful advice.
For a basic machine, it's a great deal. The chipset, sound and graphics
will be adequate for your current needs. The 17" monitor I think will be
better than a 15" TFT

Not that much, you need to look at the true view area of the 17"
monitor. Of course if you are limited to 1280x1024 then its going to
be no better. From personal experience I can work on a TFT screen
longer than a CRT, but the image quality is better on a CRT.

- I just couldn't live with that small a screen (I've
got a 21" Trinitron that I picked up as a bargain - don't care about the
space it takes up, it's great!!).

I'm worried though about the RAM and the OS comments. Be sure to check what
slots it has for adding RAM in the future. I don't think anyone should buy
under 256MB on a PC now - whatever the price. 512MB would be a more
sensible option to keep it happy for a few years. However, as you say, you
can - and should upgrade it later. Dell are outrageously expensive on RAM
upgrades, so if you can't get it free, get it elsewhere.

Yep thats the bit where they make the money.

The Win98 thing .... really ... I don't want to be rude, but please don't
even think about it! I'm a security professional so I'm not just talking
from a home user's perspective here. Go with WinXP. It's rock solid, it's
*infinitely* more secure than Win9x code (including that rubbish WinME thing
they put out!) and it's very very easy to use. There is no learning curve -
this is where MS win business. You say you're interested in Linux - I can't
believe the same person would say what you have about Win98!

XP still does have a bit of a learning curve. Mostly just to turn off
all the hand holding to make it feel like win 9x and put the control
pannel back to how it should be :-)

WinXP is much more stable than 98, I've only had it blue screen 4 or 5
times in the last year (and can reproduce it so I know how not to
now). In 98 & ME are fairly easy to lock up which is a good reason to
avoid them.

I personally would go to Win XP simply becuase its more stable.


If you use Win98 and are on the internet - you will be very lucky not to get
compromised. You will have crap, out of date drivers (probably won't even
be able to get drivers for some things, like the onboard sound/video if it's
a new chipset), programs will run poorly and crash on it, critical bug fixes
will not be fixed as quickly, if at all, on it. If you post to a Linux
group and tell them you're using Win98, you'll probably become someone's
bitch very quickly

In terms of support for 98, its still in support for a few months (its
been extended) more and I expect there will still be drivers for a
good 6 months to a year comming out. I would be supprised if you can't
get win98 drivers for current home Dell kit, although not necessarily
from Dell.


If you choose to ignore that advice - at least do what you can to protect
yourself. Do NOT build the system while on the internet, it will be
compromised immediately. Install PFW software such as ZoneAlarm, Tiny,
Symantec suite, etc. Install anti-virus. Preferably get a spyware/addware
scanner such as Lavasoft's Addaware and a good Trojan scanner like Moosoft's
The Cleaner. Install all security updates for Windows and Office
immediately and setup the automatic update feature. Check manually at least
once a week for both products (only windows uses auto-update). Lock down
whatever browser you use - turn off things you don't need .. consider at
least Java and ActiveX. If you do that, you'll have raised the bar
significantly enough to avoid the script kiddies. Realistically though, you
just are not safe on Win98 on the internet.

To tell you the truth I've never had the security of Win 98
compomised. Now Win 2K & XP, they *will* get compomised within minutes
if you go on line without it being patched or at least Zone Alarm
installed (I don't use XPs firewall as it ignores outbound data).

All I have now is ZoneAlarm installed on my machine behind a NAT
router. Occasionally I run a spyware scanner and its fine.

Of course as he says the first thing he is going to do is install
something instead of IE and OE. This will get rid of 99% of problems.
But as you say, given the option XP is the way to go, spesh as it
comes on a Dell machine as standard.

"al" wrote in
:




As for the system you're suggesting I hope I can offer some helpful
advice.

I'm worried though about the RAM and the OS comments. Be sure to
check what slots it has for adding RAM in the future. I don't think
anyone should buy under 256MB on a PC now - whatever the price. 512MB
would be a more sensible option to keep it happy for a few years.
However, as you say, you can - and should upgrade it later. Dell are
outrageously expensive on RAM upgrades, so if you can't get it free,
get it elsewhere.


Thanks for the comments Al. I don't think the RAM is a problem since the
upgrade page allow up to 1024MB to be specified although as you rightly
say they aint cheap. I've heard good things about Crucial so the first
thing would be to inrease it to 512MB.

The Win98 thing .... really ... I don't want to be rude, but please
don't even think about it! I'm a security professional so I'm not
just talking from a home user's perspective here. Go with WinXP.
It's rock solid, it's *infinitely* more secure than Win9x code
(including that rubbish WinME thing they put out!) and it's very very
easy to use. There is no learning curve - this is where MS win
business. You say you're interested in Linux - I can't believe the
same person would say what you have about Win98!


Sorry I haven't been clear. I meant to say I knew more about securing 98
than XP and the learning curve might come when when I get rid of IE/OE
and have to look at what other things might be customised either for
greater security or which I don't want eg Media Player, Messenger etc.
Rightly or wrongly I've got the impression it's more difficult to do such
things in XP.
Also tbh I didn't like it very much when I tried it.


If you use Win98 and are on the internet - you will be very lucky not
to get compromised. You will have crap, out of date drivers (probably
won't even be able to get drivers for some things, like the onboard
sound/video if it's a new chipset), programs will run poorly and crash
on it, critical bug fixes will not be fixed as quickly, if at all, on
it. If you post to a Linux group and tell them you're using Win98,
you'll probably become someone's bitch very quickly



Good point about the drivers - hopefully Bagpuss is right that they
should be obtainable somewhere.


If you choose to ignore that advice - at least do what you can to
protect yourself. Do NOT build the system while on the internet, it
will be compromised immediately. Install PFW software such as
ZoneAlarm, Tiny, Symantec suite, etc. Install anti-virus. Preferably
get a spyware/addware scanner such as Lavasoft's Addaware and a good
Trojan scanner like Moosoft's The Cleaner. Install all security
updates for Windows and Office immediately and setup the automatic
update feature. Check manually at least once a week for both products
(only windows uses auto-update). Lock down whatever browser you use -
turn off things you don't need .. consider at least Java and ActiveX.
If you do that, you'll have raised the bar significantly enough to
avoid the script kiddies. Realistically though, you just are not safe
on Win98 on the internet.


I have taken such measures using Firebird, kerio, adaware, Spybot,
DNSKong, java and active X disabled, and lists blocking sites. The
Cleaner is new to me and I'll check it out.

Considering what yourself (and Bagpuss) have said I'll have to think more
seriously about at least giving XP a fair go.

Thanks to both for your comments

Cheers Mike

"Bagpuss" wrote in message
Heh, I found that a 1.5 Ghz XP machine with 512 Mb memory was *just*
about usuable with Photoshop. Below that memory wise its irritating as
hell with all the disk thrashing and when went from a 466 to 1.5Ghz
the speed of operations was an amazing improvement.

Opening pictures to work on needs RAM, not processor. Appling filters, etc.
needs processor, not RAM. As long as you're not doing *loads* of fancy
effects on huge files, the far bigger benifit will come from the RAM. With
448MB on WinXP on my lowly PII 400MHz, it is pretty ok for most work.

XP still does have a bit of a learning curve. Mostly just to turn off
all the hand holding to make it feel like win 9x and put the control
pannel back to how it should be :-)

With you there - can't deal with the new start menu or control panel!!

WinXP is much more stable than 98, I've only had it blue screen 4 or 5
times in the last year (and can reproduce it so I know how not to
now). In 98 & ME are fairly easy to lock up which is a good reason to
avoid them.

Blue screens are often because it's an old system that's been upgraded to XP
and it's not 100% happy with the hardware. Made for XP machines should
normally virtually never blue screen. Device drivers from crappy components
will raise the possibility though (can anyone say cheap scanners!) ...

I personally would go to Win XP simply becuase its more stable.

Quite, and it's just nicer to use. Come out of the dark ages

To tell you the truth I've never had the security of Win 98
compomised. Now Win 2K & XP, they *will* get compomised within minutes
if you go on line without it being patched or at least Zone Alarm
installed (I don't use XPs firewall as it ignores outbound data).

I still think Win98 is easier to compromise out of the box. The stuff you
could do with bad packets back then was horrendous! Does depend on your ISP
too mind you - less attacks if you're in an unusual IP range. If you're an
AOL member, expect it straight away (and deservadly so!! ).

Of course as he says the first thing he is going to do is install
something instead of IE and OE. This will get rid of 99% of problems.
But as you say, given the option XP is the way to go, spesh as it
comes on a Dell machine as standard.


Don't agree to that extent. IE is only "insecure" because it's so widely
used and they keep adding more and more features to it. Opera, Mozilla and
the like will have just as many bugs - they just haven't been exploited as
much yet! Don't underestimate the power of worms in the future - these are
OS level attacks, not application level. You MUST patch your system and
hide your ports from the internet.


a

"M" wrote in message
Considering what yourself (and Bagpuss) have said I'll have to think more
seriously about at least giving XP a fair go.

Thanks to both for your comments

Cheers Mike

No worries - best of luck!

P.S. When you install XP, make sure you do it custom install - get rid of
most of the stuff you don't need there. If you're paranoid about registry
settings, etc. get one of the NSA or CIS .inf files to apply to your local
security policy - they will lock down tonnes of stuff! Oh .... and turn off
the Messenger service (not MSN Messenger, the other one!). Have a look at
Steve Gibson's site to scan your machine and see how locked down it is from
the internet. Lots of good tools there.



a

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 19:34:45 -0000, "al"
wrote:

"Bagpuss" wrote in message
Heh, I found that a 1.5 Ghz XP machine with 512 Mb memory was *just*
about usuable with Photoshop. Below that memory wise its irritating as
hell with all the disk thrashing and when went from a 466 to 1.5Ghz
the speed of operations was an amazing improvement.

Opening pictures to work on needs RAM, not processor. Appling filters, etc.
needs processor, not RAM. As long as you're not doing *loads* of fancy
effects on huge files, the far bigger benifit will come from the RAM. With
448MB on WinXP on my lowly PII 400MHz, it is pretty ok for most work.

Yes, thats the problem, I work with large files and apply effects to
them. Though I only consider myself a moderate user compared to even
what SWMBO does with image editing.


XP still does have a bit of a learning curve. Mostly just to turn off
all the hand holding to make it feel like win 9x and put the control
pannel back to how it should be :-)

With you there - can't deal with the new start menu or control panel!!

Heh, Its a mess, too much hand holding if you are already used to
windows.


WinXP is much more stable than 98, I've only had it blue screen 4 or 5
times in the last year (and can reproduce it so I know how not to
now). In 98 & ME are fairly easy to lock up which is a good reason to
avoid them.

Blue screens are often because it's an old system that's been upgraded to XP
and it's not 100% happy with the hardware. Made for XP machines should
normally virtually never blue screen. Device drivers from crappy components
will raise the possibility though (can anyone say cheap scanners!) ...

This is with a toshiba laptop, pre installed with XP :-(


I personally would go to Win XP simply becuase its more stable.

Quite, and it's just nicer to use. Come out of the dark ages

To tell you the truth I've never had the security of Win 98
compomised. Now Win 2K & XP, they *will* get compomised within minutes
if you go on line without it being patched or at least Zone Alarm
installed (I don't use XPs firewall as it ignores outbound data).

I still think Win98 is easier to compromise out of the box. The stuff you
could do with bad packets back then was horrendous! Does depend on your ISP
too mind you - less attacks if you're in an unusual IP range. If you're an
AOL member, expect it straight away (and deservadly so!! ).

Of course as he says the first thing he is going to do is install
something instead of IE and OE. This will get rid of 99% of problems.
But as you say, given the option XP is the way to go, spesh as it
comes on a Dell machine as standard.


Don't agree to that extent. IE is only "insecure" because it's so widely
used and they keep adding more and more features to it. Opera, Mozilla and
the like will have just as many bugs - they just haven't been exploited as
much yet!

They also have the advantage of patches comming out quicker generalyl
for Opera and Mozilla in the past.

Don't underestimate the power of worms in the future - these are
OS level attacks, not application level. You MUST patch your system and
hide your ports from the internet.

Yes such as that nice worm that fubars Win2K based kernels within
minutes of going on the binternet using a vanilla W2K or XP
installation without any firewall. There will be many more in the
future. I expect the real chanllenge will be for someone to find an
exploit in the MS firewall.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 19:38:22 -0000, "al"
wrote:

"M" wrote in message
Considering what yourself (and Bagpuss) have said I'll have to think more
seriously about at least giving XP a fair go.

Thanks to both for your comments

Cheers Mike

No worries - best of luck!

P.S. When you install XP, make sure you do it custom install - get rid of
most of the stuff you don't need there. If you're paranoid about registry
settings, etc. get one of the NSA or CIS .inf files to apply to your local
security policy - they will lock down tonnes of stuff! Oh .... and turn off
the Messenger service (not MSN Messenger, the other one!). Have a look at
Steve Gibson's site to scan your machine and see how locked down it is from
the internet. Lots of good tools there.

Yes, I'd go thought all the serices and shut down what you don't need
too. I was quite supprised how much memory & cpu power was being
sucked up by services that I didn't use. Disk caching went down after
this quite a bit.