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HDD Compatibility



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 20th 05, 04:23 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
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Default HDD Compatibility

Hello,

I have Pentium II/488MHz/128MB RAM (Dell) unused comp lying around, and I was planning to use this as either a file server or a media storage comp. For this purpose, I got on this deal:
http://shop4.outpost.com/product/3983238
It is a Hitachi 250GB UATA100 8MB Buffer Hard Drive.
I was wondering what are the compatibility issues I am going to face (b/c of 250 GB, b/c of UATA etc.) and is there any way to resolve it.
Oh, forgot to mention, it has a creaking 4 GB HDD sitting inside it :-)
Thanks.
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  #2  
Old December 20th 05, 08:33 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
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Default HDD Compatibility

In article , Samik R says...
Hello,

I have Pentium II/488MHz/128MB RAM (Dell) unused comp lying around, and I was planning to use this as either a file server or a media storage comp. For this purpose, I got on this deal:
http://shop4.outpost.com/product/3983238
It is a Hitachi 250GB UATA100 8MB Buffer Hard Drive.
I was wondering what are the compatibility issues I am going to face (b/c of 250 GB, b/c of UATA etc.) and is there any way to resolve it.
Oh, forgot to mention, it has a creaking 4 GB HDD sitting inside it :-)
Thanks.

You're going to face the BIOS limitation and also the 48 bit LBA
limitation of Windows.

--
Conor

"You're not married, you haven't got a girlfriend and you've never seen
Star Trek? Good Lord!" - Patrick Stewart, Extras.
  #3  
Old December 21st 05, 01:17 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
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Default HDD Compatibility

The BIOS in the motherboard of your older computer will NOT be able to
recognize a drive as large as 250 GB. You are probably limited to a 10 GB
harddrive, unless you can find a BIOS update for your motherboard that
allows a somewhat larger than 10 GB drive.

--
DaveW

----------------
"Samik R" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have Pentium II/488MHz/128MB RAM (Dell) unused comp lying around, and I
was planning to use this as either a file server or a media storage comp.
For this purpose, I got on this deal:
http://shop4.outpost.com/product/3983238
It is a Hitachi 250GB UATA100 8MB Buffer Hard Drive.
I was wondering what are the compatibility issues I am going to face (b/c
of 250 GB, b/c of UATA etc.) and is there any way to resolve it.
Oh, forgot to mention, it has a creaking 4 GB HDD sitting inside it :-)
Thanks.
--
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  #4  
Old December 21st 05, 02:12 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
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Default HDD Compatibility

On 12/20/2005 6:17 PM, DaveW wrote:
The BIOS in the motherboard of your older computer will NOT be able to
recognize a drive as large as 250 GB. You are probably limited to a 10 GB
harddrive, unless you can find a BIOS update for your motherboard that
allows a somewhat larger than 10 GB drive.

Thanks Dave and Conor. So to take care of the BIOS problem, I have to essentially find out the brand of motherboard, go to the website and see if they have any updates which take cares of this issue. Am I right?
For 48-bit LBA, google search lead me to http://www.48bitlba.com/, which says that it depends on the OS etc. I was planning to run XP Home w/ SP2, so the problem might be taken care of.
Am I missing something?
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  #5  
Old December 21st 05, 02:20 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
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Default HDD Compatibility



"Samik R" wrote in message
...
On 12/20/2005 6:17 PM, DaveW wrote:
The BIOS in the motherboard of your older computer will NOT be able to
recognize a drive as large as 250 GB. You are probably limited to a 10
GB harddrive, unless you can find a BIOS update for your motherboard that
allows a somewhat larger than 10 GB drive.

Thanks Dave and Conor. So to take care of the BIOS problem, I have to
essentially find out the brand of motherboard, go to the website and see
if they have any updates which take cares of this issue. Am I right?


Yes


For 48-bit LBA, google search lead me to http://www.48bitlba.com/, which
says that it depends on the OS etc. I was planning to run XP Home w/ SP2,
so the problem might be taken care of.
Am I missing something?



The BIOS needs to 'see' it before the OS. If you don't update the BIOS or if
there is not any to be had, You may not be able to use the entire drive size
or it won't be seen by the OS at all.



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  #6  
Old December 21st 05, 04:29 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
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Default HDD Compatibility

fm a google search: (looks like a controller card woud be the easiest
solution) MIke
Foreword

Hard drive limitations and barriers can, sometimes, be relatively easy to
resolve, while at other times they can be extremely difficult to resolve.
The more difficult barriers, at times, require major system component
changes, such as replacing an outdated motherboard with a new one. While we
have identified most of the limitations and barriers you may face in our
segments "Hard Drive Size Limitations and Barriers - The Basics" and "Hard
Drive Size Limitations and Barriers - In Depth", you should be aware that as
hard drive technology develops, and new larger drives appear in the
marketplace, as yet undiscovered limitations and barriers will appear. As
these new barriers are identified, we will provide the details here.

The following discusses the more common methods of resolving barriers and
limitations, beginning with BIOS issues and upgrades.

BIOS Upgrades

One of the more important methods, and the one most commonly used, to get
around the 504 MB barrier is through the use of an enhanced BIOS that
supports BIOS translation. Translation allows the BIOS to break the 504 MB
barrier by translating between physical disk parameters that the disk
understands, and a separate set of parameters that the BIOS understands. The
main problem with BIOS translation is that older BIOS's do not support it.
Some motherboards support external or flash BIOS upgrades (external meaning
that they can be performed away from the manufacturers facilities, such as
in a repair shop or your home). A BIOS upgrade can sometimes enable an older
system to employ BIOS translation. Most systems that support flash BIOS
upgrades can be updated externally to provide Interrupt13 support without
even opening up the system case. Most well-known motherboard manufacturers
continually offer updated BIOS files, therefore their Web site would be the
place to start when considering a BIOS upgrade.

Many of the later size barriers and limitations that you will encounter are
due to limitations in BIOS code, therefore they can be similarly overcome by
upgrading or flashing the BIOS to a later version that can handle larger
drives. All new BIOS's today enable Interrupt13h extensions to overcome the
8 GB size barrier. An upgrade to a current BIOS date will also address other
BIOS code problems such as the one that causes the 32 GB size barrier
commonly seen in the various Windows versions.

The Best Place To Look for a BIOS Update
The first place to look for a BIOS flash upgrade would be from either the
manufacturer of the system or the motherboard manufacturer, and is generally
the best solution to a hard disk size barrier problem. Aside from the fact
that it is generally free, it has been provided by the original hardware
manufacturer. More often than not, it is the simplest and most direct
solution to the problem, and once it is done your hard drives will work
properly without any further intervention on your part. This solution is far
superior to all others that are discussed in this section, and we strongly
recommend that you look for a BIOS update before you consider other
resolution methods.

Caution: The BIOS on some motherboards cannot be easily upgraded, and is
usually do to the fact that either the motherboard has a BIOS chip that is
too old to be flash updated, or the manufacturer of the motherboard has
decided to no longer support it. While this is common in very old machines,
today we frequently find that manufacturers of low-end systems and
components (motherboards) discontinue support after as little as two years.
There are some alternatives though, when confronted with this problem. In
some cases you may be able to purchase a third-party BIOS upgrade, as BIOS
code is normally written by one of the top three code developers in the
world. This type of BIOS code is considered generic and may not solve (and
often does not solve) your problem. Although it is a viable option, it is
usually not free, at times costing upwards of $75 or more, and more
important, it may not enable all of the features of the motherboard. Another
solution, given today's component pricing, and one we fully recommend, is to
replace the entire motherboard. Motherboards today can be purchased for
little more than it would cost you to purchase a generic BIOS update, and
you are assured that the problems you are facing are resolved. You may also
want to review the "Alternative Solutions" below.

Alternative Solutions

Enhanced BIOS Expansion Cards
One possible solution to a drive size barrier or limitation that is
irresolvable due to a BIOS that cannot be externally upgraded is through the
use of an enhanced BIOS expansion card. You might think of it as a BIOS
update that comes in the form of an add-on card for your computer. This
involves the installation of the expansion card into your system in an
available expansion slot and then connecting your hard drives to it. This
expansion card replaces your motherboard's IDE/ATA controllers, and the BIOS
code on the expansion card takes the place of the hard disk controller code
on your systems motherboard. Some controllers will even permit you to
continue to use the IDE/ATA connectors on your existing motherboard rather
than having to connect them to the controller card itself.

Expansion cards are available in many varieties ranging from very
inexpensive, in the neighborhood of $20, to as much as $150. They are
available to fit an ISA expansion slot for most older systems that have an
extra ISA slot available, as well as in PCI for later model motherboards.

Before we move on, we should add a note of clarification. There two basic
types of add-in or add-on cards. One adds only a BIOS chip with new code,
thereby permitting you to use the existing IDE/ATA connectors on your
motherboard. Another is a complete IDE/ATA controller replacement, which
adds both a controller chip as well as the IDE/ATA connectors. The BIOS chip
only type of cards, in spite their low cost, have never seemed to be quite
as popular as the add-in controller cards that include actual IDE/ATA
interface connectors. This is no doubt due to the fact that the add-in cards
rely on the existing motherboard controllers and connectors for drive
devices, and in some cases the ISA slot requirement for early versions of
this type of card. BIOS expansion cards were very popular in the mid-1990s
when the first hard disk size barriers began to appear. Now let's take a
closer look at a complete controller card.

Upgrading Using a Controller Card
As discussed briefly above, one solution to hard drive size barriers for
systems that cannot have their BIOS upgraded, is the purchase and
installation of a hard disk controller card. These types of cards completely
replace the on-board (on motherboard) IDE/ATA controller hardware of your
system, thereby eliminating any BIOS size restrictions associated with the
controller. One distinct advantage in doing this, aside from a barrier
issue, is that most older systems also have ATA33 transfer rates (the rate
at which data is transferred to and from the hard disk). By upgrading to a
controller card, you can also increase these transfer rates to ATA66 and
ATA100, presuming that your hard drive can support these speeds. You'll find
additional information about these speeds and a comparison of them here.

As you may have guessed, these cards differ from BIOS expansion cards in
that there is more than just BIOS code in that chip on the add-on card. They
are, indeed, a complete controller including the IDE/ATA port connectors. To
use them, simply install the card and then attach your hard disk cables that
were attached to your motherboards IDE/ATA ports to the new card, add the
drivers to the operating system and you're on your way.

These types of expansion cards are more expensive and a bit more complicated
than BIOS expansion cards, therefore there are issues that should be
examined when selecting one:

a.. System Bus Matching
Before making your purchase, make sure that the controller card you select
will work with the system bus type of your system. Most controller cards
available today are for PCI type motherboard slots, therefore if your
computer system uses a legacy (older) VESA local bus (VLB - a separate
controller card for hard disks) you may need to do some searching to find a
controller card that will work with this older bus type. Frankly, any system
that is using this bus type has reached the point where you need to examine
whether the end result is worth spending that much money. If your system
only supports older bus types, then you may want to consider a new system,
or at the least a new motherboard! The legacy ISA bus is extremely slow, and
systems having them have reached their end of life long ago.


b.. Controller Conflicts
If you are replacing an older existing hard disk controller card (as is
the case with most early VLB based systems) you only need to remove the old
card, replacing it with the new one, then correctly configure it. If, on the
other hand, you are installing the controller card into an ISA or PCI-based
system with the hard disk controller built into the motherboard, make sure
to disable the old (on-motherboard) controller in the motherboards BIOS
setup program to prevent a conflict between the two controllers.

Note: Before purchasing any new controller card, make certain that you
can disable the existing controller in the motherboards BIOS setup. If the
option to disable the on-board controller is not available to you, then it
would be pointless to pursue the purchase of a replacement controller.

Many of today's newer systems supporting PnP (Plug 'n' Play) technology
will allow you to install an add-in controller card that will work with an
existing on-motherboard controller. You should still proceed with caution as
there may be other issues. Any additional cards that you add to your system,
including disk controllers, will require system resources, such as an IRQ,
in order to install the new card. Even though your system may be compatible,
you may not be able to add a replacement (or additional) disk controller if
sufficient system resources are not available. Check everything carefully
before making your purchase. Remember, the supplier isn't responsible for
your not doing your homework!


c.. Compatibility Issues
We cannot overemphasize the need to research carefully your existing
system as well as the selected add-in card to insure that they are
compatible. Although compatibility issues are not as common as they once
were in older systems, and for the most part rare in PCI based systems, they
still exist. If you are purchasing your add-in card from us, we will gladly
walk you through the compatibility process.


d.. Cost versus Performance
The second most important issue, other than compatibility, is cost versus
performance. As an example, if you have a system that relies upon an older
VLB bus and you are replacing the controller card with one that you have
purchased for $20 or less, and doing so will make the system usable, and/or
allow it to be used for training purposes or so that it can be used by
someone that doesn't have a computer, then it may be a viable solution. If,
on the other hand, the system you are working with is between 4 to 7 years
old, it doesn't make too much sense to add a fast controller card that may
cost between $75 and $150 when you can replace the entire motherboard for
the same money. Obviously, replacing the motherboard will probably provide
you with all of the features you could want beyond a mere disk controller.
Choose carefully and wisely, even if your budget requires that you wait a
few months longer.
Software Translation (Dynamic Drive Overlays)

Before we delve too deeply into Software Translation, otherwise known as
"Dynamic Drive Overlays", you should be aware of the fact that we are not a
proponent of their use unless there are no alternatives and the need to
deploy the large hard drive is immediate. At times, software translation can
cause problems for the operating system, data restoration and/or recovery in
the vent of a drive crash.

As we have explained earlier, first attempt to overcome the problem by
updating the BIOS on the motherboard, and if that isn't an option,
regardless of the reason, give adequate consideration to a motherboard or
system replacement. No doubt the first thought that will enter your mind is
that we are trying to sell motherboards as a solution. True, we sell
motherboards, but we also make every attempt to prevent problems that we
have seen through our years of experience. The issue comes down to choosing
between the alternatives, spending money on a hardware solution, or going
with a free software solution. Just keep in mind that free is not always
what it implies if doing so wastes considerable amounts of your time and
endangers your data. For those of you who can afford to do so, we strongly
recommend a hardware solution, such as an expansion BIOS card, add-in disk
controller card, third-party BIOS upgrade (for a fee) or a new motherboard.

If a hardware solution is simply not in your future, and you must get your
system up and running, then your only alternative in order to access the
full hard disk capacity is to use a software translation driver, also
referred to as a dynamic drive overlay or DDO. In the past when drive size
issues were more prevalent, these drivers were typically named something
akin to Disk Manager, EZ-Drive and MaxBlast etcetera. Essentially they,
through the use of software, override some of the older BIOS code in the
BIOS chip on your motherboard or hard disk controller, thereby allowing
access to the full size of your new hard disk. The software loads
immediately during the machines boot up (startup) process and must be active
before any other software, such as your operating system, tries to access
the disk. To accomplish this, when the DDO is installed the first time, it
modifies the master boot record of the boot disk, installing the driver at
the very beginning of the disk.

Usually when a new hard disk is purchased at full boxed retail, the drive
manufacturer often includes a copy of their driver program, drive overlay
and utilities free with the drive. You can also download these drivers and
other free disk utilities from the drive manufacturers web site. While there
are several of these overlay utilities available, we have seen the least
problems with those provided by Maxtor and Western Digital. Both have made
an exceptional effort to write premium software and both fully support what
they have written.

Maxtor has had one software solution in place since 1993, with its MaxBlast®
software. Software translation is an effective, but non-conventional, means
of translating sector addresses of large capacity hard disk drives. Instead
of loading a driver in the start-up files, MaxBlast® loads drivers before
the operating system is loaded. The latest version of MaxBlast® can be
obtained directly from Maxtor's Internet Web site. As in the case with
Maxtor, Western Digital also has drive translation software to enable the
use of large hard drives in systems with an outdated or legacy BIOS,
motherboard, and in some cases the operating system itself. Western
Digital's version of this software was known as EZ-Drive®, which is now
referred to as Western Digital's Data Lifeguard Tools®.

As mentioned at the beginning of this topic, we are not a proponent of using
drive overlays. While drive manufacturers often tout that using their
software translation drivers is equal to updating the BIOS, simply put, it
isn't! There are numerous problems associated with using software
translation for large disk support, which supports our position of not
recommending them when other alternatives are available. Here are just a few
of the more prominent issues:

a.. Operating System Installation and Compatibility Issues: These drivers
modify the master boot record and are installed at the very beginning of the
data area on the drive, essentially setting up their own logical disk volume
using a non-standard disk format. As such, your disks are not being setup in
the manner intended by the system manufacturer, drive manufacturer,
motherboard manufacturer or the developer of the operating system. The
overlay drivers can cause problems when using alternative operating systems,
or should you attempt to set up a multiple boot system.

b.. Driver Problems including Removal: The majority of these overlay
drivers can be very difficult to remove from the disk, requiring you to rely
upon uninstall utilities that come with the driver itself. Should you need
to remove the driver as the result of an upgrade, such as a new motherboard
that supports larger drives, you will need to either leave the overlay
driver in place or repartition the hard disk and format it. Aside from the
inherent danger to your data, just the inconvenience of having to reformat
just when your operating system is running perfectly would be enough to
cause second thoughts.


c.. Reduced Drive Interoperability: Most of the overlay drivers that come
with the various manufacturers' drives are customized for the drives they
manufacture and their specific technology. Hence, if you were put a Western
Digital hard drive in your PC and later want to add a Maxtor drive, you may
have a bit of a problem. At this point you may have to purchase an advanced
version of a disk manager, and given the added cost, it may be prudent to
purchase an add-in hard disk controller or replace the motherboard.


d.. Floppy Disk Booting Complications: As noted earlier in this
discussion, since the driver is located on the hard drive, you must boot
from the hard drive in order to load it. If you boot from a floppy, your
hard drive may seem to "disappear" because the overlay hasn't been loaded.
These overlay drivers will allow you to boot from a floppy, however you must
first boot the hard drive, wait for the overlay to load and then a message
to be displayed that permits you to boot from a floppy disk.

If you're not doing anything unusual with your computer system such as
either multi or dual booting various operating systems, programming, web
design or data intensive work, and the potential for data loss is not a
concern to you, these overlay drivers will work. Overlay drivers are an
acceptable alternative when you need to get your system up and running now
and cannot wait for a better solution. If you're concerned about potential
data loss, and/or your system has a substantial amount of software to be
loaded, we recommend that you seek other alternatives as we have mentioned
above.

Reduction Jumpers
Drive size reduction jumpers were, at one time, included on most, if not
all, hard drives being manufactured. Today, these jumpers are characterized
as a legacy issue and are quickly disappearing. Using the disk size
reduction jumpers on some hard drives is a subject rarely touched upon by
most technically oriented web sites. While these jumpers are not available
on all hard drives, and their use is far from an optimal solution, they are
an alternative solution when you need to get yourself out of a problem
quickly. Many of the hard disk size barriers we've discussed throughout this
particular topic area can cause a system to not identify or even see the
hard drive. If the reduction jumpers are on the drive, you can set one or
more of them, which then tells the disk to change the drive parameters it
presents to the operating system. Since this reduces the size of the drive,
the system sees the drive as being small enough to avoid the size barrier,
and thus the barrier is avoided. Obviously you lose the capacity of the
larger hard drive, but again it is an alternative that you can use to get
out of a pressing problem.

Reduction jumpers were originally developed as a method by which system
builders could retrofit newer drives into older systems that had a BIOS
unable to access the entire drive size. Later, they would be frequently used
as a method by which to work around the 4,096 cylinder barrier when it first
surfaced. As an example, if you were to install one of the newer hard drives
back then, let's say 1.2GB, the BIOS would cause the disk to be seen as an
approximate 400 MB. In turn, data would wrap rather than remain contiguous.
The reduction jumpers would enable you have the drive report to the
operating system that it had less than 4,096 cylinders. Over the last few
years, drives that did have these size reduction or capacity limiting
jumpers enabled users to work around the 32 GB size barrier by forcing the
drive to present a capacity small enough to avoid triggering that capacity
barrier.

Obviously the foregoing "solution" is really not a solution at all, but
rather a method by which to avoid the consequences of the problem at hand.
While it is better than having your system hang when you try to boot, it is
still a very poor solution. The reduction jumpers should only be used in
conjunction with drive overlay software, and only as a last resort.

Manually Entering Drive Geometry Parameters
Some drive size barrier problems that are associated with older drives, as
well as drives that are small by today's standards, can be avoided by simply
abandoning the use of the BIOS hard disk auto-detection features and
entering the specific drive parameters manually. While we constantly remind
users and technicians to use their computers auto-detection features, it
should be understood that we are referring to today's technology, not
yesterdays. Indeed, auto-detection is the best method to set up hard drives,
but this presumes that the BIOS is recent and supports the drives you intend
to use.

In some cases, for example, where the data wraps around on the disk when the
disk is too large, you can work around the problem by manually entering the
maximum parameters that your BIOS can support. Let's suppose for the moment
that you had a 540 MB hard disk and that old 486 system of yours is choking
on it. The drive has 1048 (logical) cylinders, 16 heads and 63 sectors per
track. If you manually set the disk up in your BIOS as having 1023
cylinders, 16 heads and 63 sectors per track, it will probably work fine,
but only as a 528 MB disk. This will still provide you with 95-97% of the
disk. Unfortunately this work around will be of no help for today's systems
with large drives. It will do nothing to get around larger size barriers,
such as the 8 GB barrier.

Int 13h Extensions
At the time the 8GB barrier surfaced, the only possible solution was to
eliminate the use of the standard Int13h disk access routines. However, in
order to accomplish this you had to change or update the BIOS to one that
supported what are referred to as Int 13h Extensions. We discuss these
extensions here in more detail.

We quickly learned though that merely changing to the Int13h Extensions was
not enough, as we had to make changes to everything associated with disk
access; the hard disk, the BIOS, and the operating system. Today's operating
systems support this transition to how hard disks are addressed. This
includes all versions of Windows, beginning with Windows 95 through to
Windows XP. It is also important to note that all of today's hard drives
support this method of disk addressing. This has allowed us to work around
each of the hardware related hard disk barriers, leaving only those caused
by the operating system itself. Most of the drive manufacturers mentioned
earlier make drive utilities available that you can use to test your system,
including its BIOS, and determine if it will natively support Int13h
extensions.

With the advent of moving away from the old Int13h and into the Int13h
Extensions, we have finally been able to lay to rest the old geometry method
of specifying hard disk sizes. In fact, now with the multiple levels of
translation available within both the BIOS and the hard disk, logical
geometry parameters of IDE/ATA hard disks no longer have any relationship to
actual drive characteristics. Even if the setting of geometry parameters
were still available, today's newer hard drives, (those at or above 8.4 GB
in size), could not be expressed using traditional geometry terms. Today,
unlike our recent past, the total number of sectors on the drive is now the
key parameter, as is drive access using logical block addressing. To give
you an example of what all of this means, a 45 GB drive would, if expressed
in conventional geometry, be stated as having 89,355 cylinders, 16 heads and
63 sectors. Today, it is merely referred to as having 90,069,840 data
sectors. As an aside, all drives 8.4 GB and over have logical geometry
parameters of 16,383 cylinders, 16 heads and 63 sectors, which is why these
drives show up as being about 8.4 GB in size if Int13h Extensions have not
been implemented.

"JAD" wrote in message
...


"Samik R" wrote in message
...
On 12/20/2005 6:17 PM, DaveW wrote:
The BIOS in the motherboard of your older computer will NOT be able to
recognize a drive as large as 250 GB. You are probably limited to a
10
GB harddrive, unless you can find a BIOS update for your motherboard
that
allows a somewhat larger than 10 GB drive.

Thanks Dave and Conor. So to take care of the BIOS problem, I have to
essentially find out the brand of motherboard, go to the website and see
if they have any updates which take cares of this issue. Am I right?


Yes


For 48-bit LBA, google search lead me to http://www.48bitlba.com/, which
says that it depends on the OS etc. I was planning to run XP Home w/ SP2,
so the problem might be taken care of.
Am I missing something?



The BIOS needs to 'see' it before the OS. If you don't update the BIOS or
if
there is not any to be had, You may not be able to use the entire drive
size
or it won't be seen by the OS at all.



--
Please reply to the newsgroup.
To mail me directly, replace 'K' with 'e'.







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  #7  
Old December 21st 05, 03:50 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default HDD Compatibility

Howdy!

"Mike Hollywood" wrote in message
. ..
i found a controller card for $50 but it only goes up to 128 megs. I
couldn't find one for 250 megs, but Promise makes a lot of cards and may
have one that supports that capaicty.


Their current production (Promise's) does. And even the Ultra 66
has a firmware update to support LBA48 (i.e., 128G) HDs.

RwP


  #8  
Old December 21st 05, 05:59 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
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Default HDD Compatibility

Samik R wrote:
On 12/20/2005 6:17 PM, DaveW wrote:

The BIOS in the motherboard of your older computer will NOT be able to
recognize a drive as large as 250 GB. You are probably limited to a
10 GB harddrive, unless you can find a BIOS update for your
motherboard that allows a somewhat larger than 10 GB drive.

Thanks Dave and Conor. So to take care of the BIOS problem, I have to
essentially find out the brand of motherboard, go to the website and see
if they have any updates which take cares of this issue. Am I right?


Correct, and that would be the ideal solution but with a motherboard that
old the odds are not promising they upgraded it so recently.

For 48-bit LBA, google search lead me to http://www.48bitlba.com/, which
says that it depends on the OS etc. I was planning to run XP Home w/
SP2, so the problem might be taken care of.


XP SP2 will not do anything to help the motherboard understand a large
drive. It's just that they both need to understand it and SP2 takes care of
the XP end, only.

Am I missing something?


There are two other choices. One is to buy an add-on IDE controller that
supports 48 bit LBA.

The last 'free' choice is to use the hard drive loader that usually comes
with large hard drives, or can be downloaded from their site, that writes a
48 bit LBA IDE BIOS handler onto the boot track so that it loads when the
drive boots, rendering the BIOS (in memory) 48 bit aware without an actual
flash BIOS update. The down side to this, since it's not actually in the
BIOS flash chip but on the hard drive boot track, is that if you boot from
anything else, such as a virus scanner or repair disk of some sort, the
hard drive will not operate properly unless you load the BIOS patch first,
either from the hard drive or a floppy utility disk, because the IDE patch
isn't there. The provided boot loader usually pauses right at boot to give
you the chance to ask for a floppy or CD boot, slowing things down a bit,
so you can still use those things but if you change the BIOS boot sequence
to check those devices first and boot from them you'll have bypassed the
IDE patch load with the potential consequences already mentioned.


  #9  
Old February 1st 06, 01:10 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default HDD Compatibility

On 12/21/2005 10:59 AM, David Maynard wrote:
Samik R wrote:
On 12/20/2005 6:17 PM, DaveW wrote:

The BIOS in the motherboard of your older computer will NOT be able
to recognize a drive as large as 250 GB. You are probably limited
to a 10 GB harddrive, unless you can find a BIOS update for your
motherboard that allows a somewhat larger than 10 GB drive.

Thanks Dave and Conor. So to take care of the BIOS problem, I have to
essentially find out the brand of motherboard, go to the website and
see if they have any updates which take cares of this issue. Am I right?


Correct, and that would be the ideal solution but with a motherboard
that old the odds are not promising they upgraded it so recently.

For 48-bit LBA, google search lead me to http://www.48bitlba.com/,
which says that it depends on the OS etc. I was planning to run XP
Home w/ SP2, so the problem might be taken care of.


XP SP2 will not do anything to help the motherboard understand a large
drive. It's just that they both need to understand it and SP2 takes care
of the XP end, only.

Am I missing something?


There are two other choices. One is to buy an add-on IDE controller that
supports 48 bit LBA.

The last 'free' choice is to use the hard drive loader that usually
comes with large hard drives, or can be downloaded from their site, that
writes a 48 bit LBA IDE BIOS handler onto the boot track so that it
loads when the drive boots, rendering the BIOS (in memory) 48 bit aware
without an actual flash BIOS update. The down side to this, since it's
not actually in the BIOS flash chip but on the hard drive boot track, is
that if you boot from anything else, such as a virus scanner or repair
disk of some sort, the hard drive will not operate properly unless you
load the BIOS patch first, either from the hard drive or a floppy
utility disk, because the IDE patch isn't there. The provided boot
loader usually pauses right at boot to give you the chance to ask for a
floppy or CD boot, slowing things down a bit, so you can still use those
things but if you change the BIOS boot sequence to check those devices
first and boot from them you'll have bypassed the IDE patch load with
the potential consequences already mentioned.


Finally got time to work on this.
Of course, I want to try the second option mentioned by David first. On this end, I found out the utility which I think I should use:
At: http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm
Program: Feature Tool (v2.00)
Manual: http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/suppor..._guide_199.pdf

It says that, this tool allows you to "Change the predefined capacity of the drive. This option can be used in situations where there is a BIOS limitation and the drive is not recognized." This is the same as what David was mention, right?

--
Please reply to the newsgroup.
To mail me directly, replace 'K' with 'e'.
  #10  
Old February 1st 06, 03:07 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default HDD Compatibility

Samik R wrote:
On 12/21/2005 10:59 AM, David Maynard wrote:

Samik R wrote:

On 12/20/2005 6:17 PM, DaveW wrote:

The BIOS in the motherboard of your older computer will NOT be able
to recognize a drive as large as 250 GB. You are probably limited
to a 10 GB harddrive, unless you can find a BIOS update for your
motherboard that allows a somewhat larger than 10 GB drive.

Thanks Dave and Conor. So to take care of the BIOS problem, I have to
essentially find out the brand of motherboard, go to the website and
see if they have any updates which take cares of this issue. Am I right?



Correct, and that would be the ideal solution but with a motherboard
that old the odds are not promising they upgraded it so recently.

For 48-bit LBA, google search lead me to http://www.48bitlba.com/,
which says that it depends on the OS etc. I was planning to run XP
Home w/ SP2, so the problem might be taken care of.



XP SP2 will not do anything to help the motherboard understand a large
drive. It's just that they both need to understand it and SP2 takes
care of the XP end, only.

Am I missing something?



There are two other choices. One is to buy an add-on IDE controller
that supports 48 bit LBA.

The last 'free' choice is to use the hard drive loader that usually
comes with large hard drives, or can be downloaded from their site,
that writes a 48 bit LBA IDE BIOS handler onto the boot track so that
it loads when the drive boots, rendering the BIOS (in memory) 48 bit
aware without an actual flash BIOS update. The down side to this,
since it's not actually in the BIOS flash chip but on the hard drive
boot track, is that if you boot from anything else, such as a virus
scanner or repair disk of some sort, the hard drive will not operate
properly unless you load the BIOS patch first, either from the hard
drive or a floppy utility disk, because the IDE patch isn't there. The
provided boot loader usually pauses right at boot to give you the
chance to ask for a floppy or CD boot, slowing things down a bit, so
you can still use those things but if you change the BIOS boot
sequence to check those devices first and boot from them you'll have
bypassed the IDE patch load with the potential consequences already
mentioned.


Finally got time to work on this.
Of course, I want to try the second option mentioned by David first. On
this end, I found out the utility which I think I should use:
At: http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm
Program: Feature Tool (v2.00)
Manual: http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/suppor..._guide_199.pdf

It says that, this tool allows you to "Change the predefined capacity of
the drive. This option can be used in situations where there is a BIOS
limitation and the drive is not recognized." This is the same as what
David was mention, right?


No, what I mentioned is a disk manager program that installs a boot loader
on the drive that replaces the limited BIOS IDE handler so the full
capacity of the drive is available, not something that limits the drive.

Something like this one:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Hard...ive/utilities/

but I don't know if their version will allow usage with other
manufacturer's drives and I note that on the page link you posted they've
removed Disk Manager because "systems with Windows XP and 2000 don't
require it." Not exactly precise because W2k/XP won't 'fix' an old
motherboard BIOS but I guess they just don't support older systems.

Of course, if you don't mind losing drive capacity then the drive limiter
would work.

 




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