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MSI B450-A PRO doesn't recognize external HDD via esata-sata



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 19th 19, 12:55 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
MaxTheFast
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Posts: 22
Default MSI B450-A PRO doesn't recognize external HDD via esata-sata

I've got a HDD fantec external enclosure with esata II port and its own power supply. I've bought an esata-sata cable to connect this enclosure to one of my mobo's 6 sata III ports.
Firstly I connected the fantec power supply, then its esata-sata cable and then I've started an ubuntu live session. After that I switched on the enclosure but nothing happened: the enclosure's led remained switched off and no external device icon appeared on ubuntu desktop. I switched off the enclosure, removed the esata-sata cable and connected the enclosure via an usb cable, then switched the enclosure on and it worked: its led switched on and the device icon appeared on the desktop.

I supposed the brand new esata-sata cable failed but I checked it by a tester (@ ohm scale) and verified there was a link between some pins of the esata and sata plugs. So I supposed the enclosure's esata port didn't work properly and I tested it and verified there was a link between some esata's pins and the pins connected to the HDD. I'm not skilled but I guess both the cable and the enclosure work fine.

That said, can you tell me why my mobo is not able to load an external device, like my enclosure, via its sata ports?
Moreover I saw that nothing was listed in sata port list within bios environment when I started the bios with the enclosure connected via esata-sata cable. Should I modify something in bios to make it "see" a esata-sata cable as a common sata-sata inner cable?
  #2  
Old June 19th 19, 03:08 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default MSI B450-A PRO doesn't recognize external HDD via esata-sata

MaxTheFast wrote:
I've got a HDD fantec external enclosure with esata II port and its own power supply. I've bought an esata-sata cable to connect this enclosure to one of my mobo's 6 sata III ports.
Firstly I connected the fantec power supply, then its esata-sata cable and then I've started an ubuntu live session. After that I switched on the enclosure but nothing happened: the enclosure's led remained switched off and no external device icon appeared on ubuntu desktop. I switched off the enclosure, removed the esata-sata cable and connected the enclosure via an usb cable, then switched the enclosure on and it worked: its led switched on and the device icon appeared on the desktop.

I supposed the brand new esata-sata cable failed but I checked it by a tester (@ ohm scale) and verified there was a link between some pins of the esata and sata plugs. So I supposed the enclosure's esata port didn't work properly and I tested it and verified there was a link between some esata's pins and the pins connected to the HDD. I'm not skilled but I guess both the cable and the enclosure work fine.

That said, can you tell me why my mobo is not able to load an external device, like my enclosure, via its sata ports?
Moreover I saw that nothing was listed in sata port list within bios environment when I started the bios with the enclosure connected via esata-sata cable. Should I modify something in bios to make it "see" a esata-sata cable as a common sata-sata inner cable?


ESATA has a bus power option. Two pins off to the side of
the connector ("ears") are placed on motherboards that
provide power. Then a cable with bus-power pins on it,
would pass bus power to a drive.

You would want to use a "plain" ESATA cable with no ears
on it, if the enclosure has its own AC power.

It's not clear whether sataio.org ever standardized
this connector, and the options it has. There is
even a motherboard connector, with ESATA and USB pins
on the same connector, as a variant. The intention being,
that a USB cable can go into that particular flavor of
ESATA connector. Making it a "combo port", serving ESATA
or USB function, depending on cable used.

Paul
  #3  
Old June 19th 19, 05:31 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
MaxTheFast
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Posts: 22
Default MSI B450-A PRO doesn't recognize external HDD via esata-sata

I just purchased a "generic" female esata - female sata cable, I didn't know anything about "plain" or not cables, honestly I saw only "eared" esata plugs on the web until now. Can you please show me which esata form cable should I get? An amazon or aliexpress link would be ok so I won't be wrong.

Let me understand better why mine doesn't work, especially why the fantec box's led remains switched off. As far as you said my cable (with "ears") takes energy from the mobo so I guess the reason is there's "something" within the fantec that avoid it to get power from its power supply while connected via this "eared" cable, isn't it? Moreover I guess if I didn't connect its power supply it'd not work anyway because the energy taken from the "ears" would be not enough, right?
Just a "punk" solution: can't I just isolate or cut/interrupt these 2 wires? I bought this cable only for this goal but it's useless as it is.
Consider that I've already tried to connect it with both cables at the same time (usb 3 and esata-sata II). The fantec's led switched on and it was recognized connected via usb therefore it was as there were no sata cable. Can this be useful to get informations about how this "thing" works?

Finally a last note about these attempts, maybe this'll be useful maybe not.. Every time after I use this new esata-sata cable and replace the hdd inside the PC case or I use the usb cable to connect the fantec box, after rebooting the PC the CPU mobo led switches on and the booting freezes. This doesn't happen if I use only the usb cable. When this happens maybe I can restart just pushing the PC case reset button maybe it doesn't work and I've to switch off the PC. This [switching on - cpu led - switching off] can go on for 2-3-4 times without a rule (I guess). Most of times I solve just switching off once and waiting 10 minutes, then the PC boots properly.
Can this behavior be useful to understand better the relationship between my mobo and this esata cable?
  #4  
Old June 19th 19, 07:28 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default MSI B450-A PRO doesn't recognize external HDD via esata-sata

MaxTheFast wrote:
I just purchased a "generic" female esata - female sata cable, I didn't know anything about "plain" or not cables, honestly I saw only "eared" esata plugs on the web until now. Can you please show me which esata form cable should I get? An amazon or aliexpress link would be ok so I won't be wrong.

Let me understand better why mine doesn't work, especially why the fantec box's led remains switched off. As far as you said my cable (with "ears") takes energy from the mobo so I guess the reason is there's "something" within the fantec that avoid it to get power from its power supply while connected via this "eared" cable, isn't it? Moreover I guess if I didn't connect its power supply it'd not work anyway because the energy taken from the "ears" would be not enough, right?
Just a "punk" solution: can't I just isolate or cut/interrupt these 2 wires? I bought this cable only for this goal but it's useless as it is.
Consider that I've already tried to connect it with both cables at the same time (usb 3 and esata-sata II). The fantec's led switched on and it was recognized connected via usb therefore it was as there were no sata cable. Can this be useful to get informations about how this "thing" works?

Finally a last note about these attempts, maybe this'll be useful maybe not. Every time after I use this new esata-sata cable and replace the hdd inside the PC case or I use the usb cable to connect the fantec box, after rebooting the PC the CPU mobo led switches on and the booting freezes. This doesn't happen if I use only the usb cable. When this happens maybe I can restart just pushing the PC case reset button maybe it doesn't work and I've to switch off the PC. This [switching on - cpu led - switching off] can go on for 2-3-4 times without a rule (I guess). Most of times I solve just switching off once and waiting 10 minutes, then the PC boots properly.
Can this behavior be useful to understand better the relationship between my mobo and this esata cable?


I can't tell what's wrong from this distance.

I'm only examining possibilities, and I don't
like the fact that the ESATA people added those
power contacts like they did. It didn't seem to be
backed up with any standards body. I can't tell
you what their intentions were on bus power.

ESATA would be a lot easier to understand if
the ESATA was just "data" and no "power", as a
data cable doesn't have nearly as many failure modes.

A drive which freezes, could be a drive with flaky power,
a data cable with incorrect signal amplitude. I think
ESATA could support 1 meter and 2 meter cables, but
the 1 meter cables means it's more likely to work if
the motherboard side isn't programmed properly.

A drive can "freeze" if it goes crazy, and this
can be a sign of a power problem. You might hear
noises of "spin up" and "spin down" if there
is a power problem, like the voltage to the
drive isn't sufficient.

But that's all that comes to mind.

Paul
  #5  
Old June 21st 19, 07:21 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
~misfit~[_16_]
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Posts: 158
Default MSI B450-A PRO doesn't recognize external HDD via esata-sata

On 20/06/2019 4:31 AM, MaxTheFast wrote:
I just purchased a "generic" female esata - female sata cable, I didn't know anything about "plain" or not cables, honestly I saw only "eared" esata plugs on the web until now. Can you please show me which esata form cable should I get? An amazon or aliexpress link would be ok so I won't be wrong.

Let me understand better why mine doesn't work, especially why the fantec box's led remains switched off. As far as you said my cable (with "ears") takes energy from the mobo so I guess the reason is there's "something" within the fantec that avoid it to get power from its power supply while connected via this "eared" cable, isn't it? Moreover I guess if I didn't connect its power supply it'd not work anyway because the energy taken from the "ears" would be not enough, right?
Just a "punk" solution: can't I just isolate or cut/interrupt these 2 wires? I bought this cable only for this goal but it's useless as it is.
Consider that I've already tried to connect it with both cables at the same time (usb 3 and esata-sata II). The fantec's led switched on and it was recognized connected via usb therefore it was as there were no sata cable. Can this be useful to get informations about how this "thing" works?

Finally a last note about these attempts, maybe this'll be useful maybe not. Every time after I use this new esata-sata cable and replace the hdd inside the PC case or I use the usb cable to connect the fantec box, after rebooting the PC the CPU mobo led switches on and the booting freezes. This doesn't happen if I use only the usb cable. When this happens maybe I can restart just pushing the PC case reset button maybe it doesn't work and I've to switch off the PC. This [switching on - cpu led - switching off] can go on for 2-3-4 times without a rule (I guess). Most of times I solve just switching off once and waiting 10 minutes, then the PC boots properly.
Can this behavior be useful to understand better the relationship between my mobo and this esata cable?


Simples. Your enclosure expects to see the power / signal on the eSATA cable 'ears' and doesn't so
doesn't turn on. When I used eSATA if the mobo didn't have eSATA ports then I used a PCI-e / eSATA
expansion card (and an eSATA to eSATA cable). This provides the power on the 'ears' which tells the
enclosure there's an eSATA cable plugged in and to run in eSATA mode. Without that signal the
enclosure 'thinks' there's not a cable plugged in so doesn't turn on.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
  #6  
Old June 21st 19, 02:26 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default MSI B450-A PRO doesn't recognize external HDD via esata-sata

~misfit~ wrote:
On 20/06/2019 4:31 AM, MaxTheFast wrote:
I just purchased a "generic" female esata - female sata cable, I
didn't know anything about "plain" or not cables, honestly I saw only
"eared" esata plugs on the web until now. Can you please show me which
esata form cable should I get? An amazon or aliexpress link would be
ok so I won't be wrong.

Let me understand better why mine doesn't work, especially why the
fantec box's led remains switched off. As far as you said my cable
(with "ears") takes energy from the mobo so I guess the reason is
there's "something" within the fantec that avoid it to get power from
its power supply while connected via this "eared" cable, isn't it?
Moreover I guess if I didn't connect its power supply it'd not work
anyway because the energy taken from the "ears" would be not enough,
right?
Just a "punk" solution: can't I just isolate or cut/interrupt these 2
wires? I bought this cable only for this goal but it's useless as it is.
Consider that I've already tried to connect it with both cables at the
same time (usb 3 and esata-sata II). The fantec's led switched on and
it was recognized connected via usb therefore it was as there were no
sata cable. Can this be useful to get informations about how this
"thing" works?

Finally a last note about these attempts, maybe this'll be useful
maybe not. Every time after I use this new esata-sata cable and
replace the hdd inside the PC case or I use the usb cable to connect
the fantec box, after rebooting the PC the CPU mobo led switches on
and the booting freezes. This doesn't happen if I use only the usb
cable. When this happens maybe I can restart just pushing the PC case
reset button maybe it doesn't work and I've to switch off the PC. This
[switching on - cpu led - switching off] can go on for 2-3-4 times
without a rule (I guess). Most of times I solve just switching off
once and waiting 10 minutes, then the PC boots properly.
Can this behavior be useful to understand better the relationship
between my mobo and this esata cable?


Simples. Your enclosure expects to see the power / signal on the eSATA
cable 'ears' and doesn't so doesn't turn on. When I used eSATA if the
mobo didn't have eSATA ports then I used a PCI-e / eSATA expansion card
(and an eSATA to eSATA cable). This provides the power on the 'ears'
which tells the enclosure there's an eSATA cable plugged in and to run
in eSATA mode. Without that signal the enclosure 'thinks' there's not a
cable plugged in so doesn't turn on.


The data portion of the interface, works off impedance sensing.

\ -- cable loss -- \
TX \-------------------+----------------------\ RX
\ | \ 50mV sensitivity
\ R=100ohm \ A little hysteresis
/ | (flyby termination) /
/ | /
/o------------------+---------------------o/
/ /
\---------------------------------------------/
Say, 1V launch Receiver IC is this portion, the 100 ohm
amplitude being either inside the chip or right after
the diff pair passes underneath the chip.

Before the cable is plugged in, it looks like this,
and the RX sees the same voltage on both inputs


\ -- cable loss -- \
TX \---------------X X-+----------------------\ RX
\ | \ 50mV sensitivity
\ R=100ohm \ A little hysteresis
/ | (flyby termination) /
/ | / + - Out
/o--------------X X-+---------------------o/ 0 1 0
/ / 1 0 1
0 0 disconnect
1 1 disconnect

There are a couple ways to detect a disconnect. Add
some sensing in parallel with the diff receiver. Or,
note a lack of delimiters in the decoded data stream,
via the (unlocked) free running receive clock. But the
logic table of the receiver can also be considered to
offer information, and there have been some receiver
chips (Motorola Autobahn) which could tell you something
is disconnected. The receiver can even have a "bias" on
the inputs that helps it detect the disconnect case.

The capacitors that may be in the high speed diff
path, have been removed for clarity. With capacitors
in the path, that helps reduce the opportunity for
a DC bias problem traveling from end to end (TX DC levels
upset RX DC levels or bias).

*******

The power detection (if there is to be an issue), is
independent of link state. An enclosure with its own
power supply, doesn't even need "ears" on its interface
as it can completely ignore the ears if it wants
(and likely, should). While you could likely do
an either/or power implementation, you can't add
too much drop to VBUS if doing some fancy selector
circuit.

I have not drawn the reverse direction of the cable.
SATA has 7 pins GND TX+ TX- GND RX+ RX- GND and
there are two pairs of wires involved. One goes
east-west, the other goes west-east. The link
"trains up" on a symbol stream, until both ends
of the link operate at a common clock, and things
like JK symbols (or equivalent) can be seen. As
the rates on SATA/ESATA go up, the link encoding
method may differ, but it's all a lot of low
amplitude physical layers. USB3/PCIe/SATA all
use ~1V level diff signalling. And they're
also likely to use flyby terminators in the
100-110 ohm range, as that is typical for
the cheap cabling or FR4 they're designed for.

Paul
  #7  
Old June 21st 19, 05:26 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
MaxTheFast
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default MSI B450-A PRO doesn't recognize external HDD via esata-sata

Thanks for your explanations. Now I've no time to read Paul's last reply and I'll do it later because I want to learn something on that.
~misfit~ solved that with a PCIe so for now I just want to ask you if this https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B007FVQIVW/ can be good for my scenario. Data transfer is only 3gbps, so it's esata II like my fantec enclosure, but it costs only 5 euros (a bit less than 5 usd) shipped.
  #8  
Old June 22nd 19, 02:37 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
~misfit~[_16_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 158
Default MSI B450-A PRO doesn't recognize external HDD via esata-sata

On 22/06/2019 1:26 AM, Paul wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:
On 20/06/2019 4:31 AM, MaxTheFast wrote:
I just purchased a "generic" female esata - female sata cable, I didn't know anything about
"plain" or not cables, honestly I saw only "eared" esata plugs on the web until now. Can you
please show me which esata form cable should I get? An amazon or aliexpress link would be ok so
I won't be wrong.

Let me understand better why mine doesn't work, especially why the fantec box's led remains
switched off. As far as you said my cable (with "ears") takes energy from the mobo so I guess
the reason is there's "something" within the fantec that avoid it to get power from its power
supply while connected via this "eared" cable, isn't it? Moreover I guess if I didn't connect
its power supply it'd not work anyway because the energy taken from the "ears" would be not
enough, right?
Just a "punk" solution: can't I just isolate or cut/interrupt these 2 wires? I bought this cable
only for this goal but it's useless as it is.
Consider that I've already tried to connect it with both cables at the same time (usb 3 and
esata-sata II). The fantec's led switched on and it was recognized connected via usb therefore
it was as there were no sata cable. Can this be useful to get informations about how this
"thing" works?

Finally a last note about these attempts, maybe this'll be useful maybe not. Every time after I
use this new esata-sata cable and replace the hdd inside the PC case or I use the usb cable to
connect the fantec box, after rebooting the PC the CPU mobo led switches on and the booting
freezes. This doesn't happen if I use only the usb cable. When this happens maybe I can restart
just pushing the PC case reset button maybe it doesn't work and I've to switch off the PC. This
[switching on - cpu led - switching off] can go on for 2-3-4 times without a rule (I guess).
Most of times I solve just switching off once and waiting 10 minutes, then the PC boots properly.
Can this behavior be useful to understand better the relationship between my mobo and this esata
cable?


Simples. Your enclosure expects to see the power / signal on the eSATA cable 'ears' and doesn't
so doesn't turn on. When I used eSATA if the mobo didn't have eSATA ports then I used a PCI-e /
eSATA expansion card (and an eSATA to eSATA cable). This provides the power on the 'ears' which
tells the enclosure there's an eSATA cable plugged in and to run in eSATA mode. Without that
signal the enclosure 'thinks' there's not a cable plugged in so doesn't turn on.


The data portion of the interface, works off impedance sensing.

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â* -- cable loss --Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \
Â*Â*Â*Â* TXÂ* \-------------------+----------------------\ RX
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â* 50mV sensitivity
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* R=100ohmÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â* A little hysteresis
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* /Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* | (flyby termination)Â*Â*Â* /
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* /Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* /
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* /o------------------+---------------------o/
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* /Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* /
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â* \---------------------------------------------/
Â*Â*Â* Say, 1V launchÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Receiver IC is this portion, the 100 ohm
Â*Â*Â* amplitudeÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* being either inside the chip or right after
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* the diff pair passes underneath the chip.

Before the cable is plugged in, it looks like this,
and the RX sees the same voltage on both inputs


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â* -- cable loss --Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \
Â*Â*Â*Â* TXÂ* \---------------X X-+----------------------\ RX
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â* 50mV sensitivity
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* R=100ohmÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â* A little hysteresis
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* /Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* | (flyby termination)Â*Â*Â* /
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* /Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* /Â*Â*Â* +Â* -Â* Out
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* /o--------------X X-+---------------------o/Â*Â*Â*Â* 0Â* 1Â*Â* 0
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* /Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* /Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 1Â* 0Â*Â* 1
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 0Â* 0Â*Â* disconnect
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 1Â* 1Â*Â* disconnect

There are a couple ways to detect a disconnect. Add
some sensing in parallel with the diff receiver. Or,
note a lack of delimiters in the decoded data stream,
via the (unlocked) free running receive clock. But the
logic table of the receiver can also be considered to
offer information, and there have been some receiver
chips (Motorola Autobahn) which could tell you something
is disconnected. The receiver can even have a "bias" on
the inputs that helps it detect the disconnect case.

The capacitors that may be in the high speed diff
path, have been removed for clarity. With capacitors
in the path, that helps reduce the opportunity for
a DC bias problem traveling from end to end (TX DC levels
upset RX DC levels or bias).

*******

The power detection (if there is to be an issue), is
independent of link state. An enclosure with its own
power supply, doesn't even need "ears" on its interface
as it can completely ignore the ears if it wants
(and likely, should). While you could likely do
an either/or power implementation, you can't add
too much drop to VBUS if doing some fancy selector
circuit.

I have not drawn the reverse direction of the cable.
SATA has 7 pinsÂ* GND TX+ TX- GND RX+ RX- GND and
there are two pairs of wires involved. One goes
east-west, the other goes west-east. The link
"trains up" on a symbol stream, until both ends
of the link operate at a common clock, and things
like JK symbols (or equivalent) can be seen. As
the rates on SATA/ESATA go up, the link encoding
method may differ, but it's all a lot of low
amplitude physical layers. USB3/PCIe/SATA all
use ~1V level diff signalling. And they're
also likely to use flyby terminators in the
100-110 ohm range, as that is typical for
the cheap cabling or FR4 they're designed for.

Â*Â* Paul


I'd never disagree with you Paul, you've likely forgotten more than I'll ever know. My reasoning
was because the OP said that the enclosure is both eSATA and USB so I assumed that it used the
power on the 'ears' to tell it if an eSATA cable was connected (and likely does the same with the
USB connection).

That said I've been wrong before....
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

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  #9  
Old June 22nd 19, 02:44 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
~misfit~[_16_]
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Posts: 158
Default MSI B450-A PRO doesn't recognize external HDD via esata-sata

On 22/06/2019 4:26 AM, MaxTheFast wrote:
Thanks for your explanations. Now I've no time to read Paul's last reply and I'll do it later because I want to learn something on that.
~misfit~ solved that with a PCIe so for now I just want to ask you if this https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B007FVQIVW/ can be good for my scenario. Data transfer is only 3gbps, so it's esata II like my fantec enclosure, but it costs only 5 euros (a bit less than 5 usd) shipped.


If I were you I'd be ordering that (and an eSATA to eSATA cable) and trying it. I don't know for
sure but I think your enclosure uses the 'power in' on eSATA and USB to tell it what mode to run
in. No power in signal on either means it won't power up.

It's not a lot of money to spend to find out for sure. Please let us know how it goes. I always
read all of Paul's posts as he is the most knowledgeable hardware guy I know of. Sometimes though
the answer is simple and if you get too deep into the minutiae of the situation you can lose sight
of that.

Good luck!
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
  #10  
Old June 22nd 19, 02:57 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default MSI B450-A PRO doesn't recognize external HDD via esata-sata

~misfit~ wrote:
On 22/06/2019 4:26 AM, MaxTheFast wrote:
Thanks for your explanations. Now I've no time to read Paul's last
reply and I'll do it later because I want to learn something on that.
~misfit~ solved that with a PCIe so for now I just want to ask you if
this https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B007FVQIVW/ can be good for my
scenario. Data transfer is only 3gbps, so it's esata II like my fantec
enclosure, but it costs only 5 euros (a bit less than 5 usd) shipped.


If I were you I'd be ordering that (and an eSATA to eSATA cable) and
trying it. I don't know for sure but I think your enclosure uses the
'power in' on eSATA and USB to tell it what mode to run in. No power in
signal on either means it won't power up.

It's not a lot of money to spend to find out for sure. Please let us
know how it goes. I always read all of Paul's posts as he is the most
knowledgeable hardware guy I know of. Sometimes though the answer is
simple and if you get too deep into the minutiae of the situation you
can lose sight of that.

Good luck!


I look at the power issue this way. Fantec put their
enclosure into a different pricing class, when making
the decision to include an AC power adapter. That means
they're "pretty well committed" to their own power
source (they don't need VBUS, they don't need
to sniff VBUS). If they add (VBUS OR Adapter) operation, that's
an additional cost adder (more components on PCB).

*******

When an enclosure like that has two data cables, you're
only supposed to use one of the cables at any one time,
and unplug the other.

*******

Pretty well all computer cables have some sort of sensing incorporated,
even if it isn't all that clever. For example, on audio, the
standard calls for "side-contacts" to detect a plug is
present. One of the companies has an electronic way to
do sensing, but I expect they (Analog Devices) have a
patent and would love to earn royalties by licensing it.
The audio jacks in that case, have a 25KHz AC signal placed
on them, any time the chip wants to check the port. Must
scare the crap out of your dog or cat :-/ I've actually
verified that signal is present, by using the audio chip
on one computer, to record the test signal coming out
of the Analog Devices.

So detecting the USB3 or the ESATA data signals are
connected, should not be a problem. The evidence the ESATA
has sensing on the computer end, is the "Hot Plug" detection.

If you don't have "Hot Plug" detection enabled in the BIOS,
um, guess what happens... :-) Enclosure only detected at
OS boot time.

Paul
 




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