Where do I stand - faulty screen from Novatech

Hello

I hope you all had a good Xmas - I didn't

We bought a Dell 1800FP screen from Novatech towards the end of
November. It worked for about ten days days before the DVI input
failed. Contacted Novatech and was told to call Dell, who offer a
next day swap out.

"Good!" I thought

Called Dell who insisted my graphics card must be faulty. I tried the
monitor on another system and my laptop. Still nothing through the
DVI input. Borrowed another screen with DVI connector and it worked
first time..

Called Dell back and eventually, and I mean eventually, convinced them
to swap out the screen.

They promised a courier would arrive on the 17th December with a
replacement. You can guess what happened... I took the day off,
waited at home all day and he didn't show.

I rang the next day and they couldn't find any details about my
problem, despite a call reference number etc. Rang again on the 19th
and finally spoke to someone who found the details. They arranged to
deliver another screen on the 23rd December. This time my wife took
the day off work.

They delivered a dirty old monitor which does not sit straight on its
stand and only works intermittently. I tried new cables etc. and
eventually borrowed another screen which works fine.

I called Dell who suggested I should do a factory reset on the
monitor, we followed Dell's suggestion and now have a screen that
works only in safe mode via DSUB, and is permanently locked in DVI
sleep mode. Finally a Dell technician told me they had problems with
the DVI input on that screen.

So, Xmas eve I call Novatech to ask for a refund, thinking I can at
least look round in the sales for a replacement.

Novatech won't give me a refund because I have already accepted a
replacement screen from Dell.

I dispute that I have 'accepted' the replacement, but Novatech insist
I can only deal with Dell.

At this point in time I do not want another Dell monitor, I just want
a refund. Ironically, if Novatech had refunded me I would almost
certainly have bought the replacement form them anyway.

The really annoying thing is that we have recommended Novatech to many
of our customers over the years, becuase in the past the service has
been excellent. Now it seems they have turned into box shifters who
don't give a damn.

Watch out.

Paul Johnson

IT Training Ltd
software training and network support

In message , Shimon Cohen
writes
Hello

snip tale of woe

So, Xmas eve I call Novatech to ask for a refund, thinking I can at
least look round in the sales for a replacement.

Novatech won't give me a refund because I have already accepted a
replacement screen from Dell.

I dispute that I have 'accepted' the replacement, but Novatech insist
I can only deal with Dell.

I'm not sure about the full legal position here, but this is what can
happen if you don't deal with the company that actually supplied the
goods to you, and is therefore responsible for sorting out your
problems.
Novatech do read this newsgroup, and will hopefully help you out, as by
telling you to contact Dell direct have misdirected you into waiving
some of your consumer rights.

David Atherton at Dabs is very keen for people to do this!
--
Kevin Seal (at home)
Y2K Fazer
Remove lion to reply

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:15:57 +0000, Kevin Seal
wrote:


I'm not sure about the full legal position here, but this is what can
happen if you don't deal with the company that actually supplied the
goods to you, and is therefore responsible for sorting out your
problems.
Novatech do read this newsgroup, and will hopefully help you out, as by
telling you to contact Dell direct have misdirected you into waiving
some of your consumer rights.

David Atherton at Dabs is very keen for people to do this!


Hi

I've just spoken to my solicitor who has recommended Trading Standards
and then a County Court Summons in that order. As I said in my
original post I did contact Novatech first, and they referred me to
Dell.

My contract is with Novatech - not Dell...

In message , Shimon Cohen
writes
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:15:57 +0000, Kevin Seal
wrote:


I'm not sure about the full legal position here, but this is what can
happen if you don't deal with the company that actually supplied the
goods to you, and is therefore responsible for sorting out your
problems.
Novatech do read this newsgroup, and will hopefully help you out, as by
telling you to contact Dell direct have misdirected you into waiving
some of your consumer rights.

David Atherton at Dabs is very keen for people to do this!


Hi

I've just spoken to my solicitor who has recommended Trading Standards
and then a County Court Summons in that order.

I shouldn't think it will come to that, Novatech are one of the better
online suppliers.

As I said in my
original post I did contact Novatech first, and they referred me to
Dell.

In most circumstances, this is usually the quickest and easiest option.
But it can limit your options later.

My contract is with Novatech - not Dell...

Agreed.
--
Kevin Seal (at home)
Y2K Fazer
Remove lion to reply

"Shimon Cohen" wrote in message
...
Hello

I hope you all had a good Xmas - I didn't

We bought a Dell 1800FP screen from Novatech towards the end of
November. It worked for about ten days days before the DVI input
failed. Contacted Novatech and was told to call Dell, who offer a
next day swap out.

"Good!" I thought

Called Dell who insisted my graphics card must be faulty. I tried the
monitor on another system and my laptop. Still nothing through the
DVI input. Borrowed another screen with DVI connector and it worked
first time..

Called Dell back and eventually, and I mean eventually, convinced them
to swap out the screen.

They promised a courier would arrive on the 17th December with a
replacement. You can guess what happened... I took the day off,
waited at home all day and he didn't show.

I rang the next day and they couldn't find any details about my
problem, despite a call reference number etc. Rang again on the 19th
and finally spoke to someone who found the details. They arranged to
deliver another screen on the 23rd December. This time my wife took
the day off work.

They delivered a dirty old monitor which does not sit straight on its
stand and only works intermittently. I tried new cables etc. and
eventually borrowed another screen which works fine.

I called Dell who suggested I should do a factory reset on the
monitor, we followed Dell's suggestion and now have a screen that
works only in safe mode via DSUB, and is permanently locked in DVI
sleep mode. Finally a Dell technician told me they had problems with
the DVI input on that screen.

So, Xmas eve I call Novatech to ask for a refund, thinking I can at
least look round in the sales for a replacement.

Novatech won't give me a refund because I have already accepted a
replacement screen from Dell.

I dispute that I have 'accepted' the replacement, but Novatech insist
I can only deal with Dell.

At this point in time I do not want another Dell monitor, I just want
a refund. Ironically, if Novatech had refunded me I would almost
certainly have bought the replacement form them anyway.

The really annoying thing is that we have recommended Novatech to many
of our customers over the years, becuase in the past the service has
been excellent. Now it seems they have turned into box shifters who
don't give a damn.

Watch out.

Did you pay by credit card ? If so speak to your card issuer about a
chargeback.

I'd recommend DigiUK for TFT monitors - good prices, excellent service.

"Shimon Cohen" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:15:57 +0000, Kevin Seal
wrote:


I'm not sure about the full legal position here, but this is what can
happen if you don't deal with the company that actually supplied the
goods to you, and is therefore responsible for sorting out your
problems.
Novatech do read this newsgroup, and will hopefully help you out, as by
telling you to contact Dell direct have misdirected you into waiving
some of your consumer rights.

David Atherton at Dabs is very keen for people to do this!


Hi

I've just spoken to my solicitor who has recommended Trading Standards
and then a County Court Summons in that order. As I said in my
original post I did contact Novatech first, and they referred me to
Dell.

My contract is with Novatech - not Dell...

If you paid for the item by Credit Card, get on to them. They seem to have
more leverage that the threat of Trading Standards as i've found in the
past, where I did not receive all of the items I ordered from a company, I
threatened them with Trading Standards and they just laughed at me, but as
soon as I mentioned that I would be contacting my Credit Card provider, they
could not do enough for me

Dave...

Shimon Cohen wrote:

We bought a Dell 1800FP screen from Novatech towards the end of
November. It worked for about ten days days before the DVI input
failed. Contacted Novatech and was told to call Dell, who offer a
next day swap out.
snip

I rang the next day and they couldn't find any details about my
problem, despite a call reference number etc. Rang again on the 19th
and finally spoke to someone who found the details. They arranged to
deliver another screen on the 23rd December. This time my wife took
the day off work.

So, Xmas eve I call Novatech to ask for a refund, thinking I can at
least look round in the sales for a replacement.

Novatech won't give me a refund because I have already accepted a
replacement screen from Dell.

Disregarding Dell's involvement for a moment, Novatech would not be
obliged to give a refund after this period of time as you have had it
for sufficient time when you reported the problem to be considered to
have accepted the goods under the Sale Of Goods Act. Novatech would
be obliged to offer, at their discretion, repair of the existing unit
or a suitable replacement. Having been given this opportunity, should
their resolution be unsatisfactory, you would then be entitled to
compensation.

However, since Dell have been involved, it is doubtful that Novatech
have *any* legal obligation *whatsoever*. Your contract was initially
with Novatech. Dell, despite being the manufacturer, are a
third-party and by involving them you have effectively had the unit
replaced by someone other than Novatech, thus Novatech are no longer
bound by the initial contract of sale.

While it's common practice amongst vendors and many people in here
seem to consider it a form of entertainment to lambast those who
insist of a resolution from the vendor, rather than accepting a
manufacturer repair/replacement, this is one pitfall of going along
that route. If you agree to contact a manufacturer directly it is
wise to ensure the supplier agrees that you do so "without prejudice"
and get written confirmation that it is their wish that you do so.

Were it to go to court and you could demonstrate that Novatech had
advised you to contact Dell as their appointed repair agent they would
almost certainly still be bound by contract. However, this may depend
on you producing evidence to prove Novatech insisted on this course of
action or they to admit it is their policy to do so.

Therefore, under the circumstances, they are probably correct and it
is now up to you to negotiate with Dell. However, given their size
and reputation I'd be surprised if Novatech did not agree to something
more satisfactory as a goodwill gesture, especially as they will be
aware (whether they admit it or not) that it was they who insisted you
arrange the swap-out with Dell in the first place.

Failing that, if you paid by credit card, contact your credit card
company as they remain jointly liable under the Consumer Credit Act,
assuming it was a personal purchase.

--
iv Paul iv

[ Mail: ]
[ WWW: http://www.hopwood.org.uk/ ]

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:05:49 +0000, Paul Hopwood
wrote:

Hi Paul

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

Disregarding Dell's involvement for a moment, Novatech would not be
obliged to give a refund after this period of time as you have had it
for sufficient time when you reported the problem to be considered to
have accepted the goods under the Sale Of Goods Act.

My solicitor insists that two weeks is not sufficient time...

Were it to go to court and you could demonstrate that Novatech had
advised you to contact Dell as their appointed repair agent they would
almost certainly still be bound by contract. However, this may depend
on you producing evidence to prove Novatech insisted on this course of
action or they to admit it is their policy to do so.

Novatech admit freely it is policy to advise customers to contact the
manufacturer direct.

Therefore, under the circumstances, they are probably correct and it
is now up to you to negotiate with Dell. However, given their size
and reputation I'd be surprised if Novatech did not agree to something
more satisfactory as a goodwill gesture, especially as they will be
aware (whether they admit it or not) that it was they who insisted you
arrange the swap-out with Dell in the first place.

Novatech have absolutely refused to give me a refund (this morning-
29th December)

Failing that, if you paid by credit card, contact your credit card
company as they remain jointly liable under the Consumer Credit Act,
assuming it was a personal purchase.

Yes, I will probably get in touch with RBS tomorrow - at the moment it
looks like the path of least resistance!

Paul

"Shimon Cohen" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:05:49 +0000, Paul Hopwood
wrote:

Therefore, under the circumstances, they are probably correct and it
is now up to you to negotiate with Dell. However, given their size
and reputation I'd be surprised if Novatech did not agree to something
more satisfactory as a goodwill gesture, especially as they will be
aware (whether they admit it or not) that it was they who insisted you
arrange the swap-out with Dell in the first place.

Novatech have absolutely refused to give me a refund (this morning-
29th December)

Why should they, it's got nothing to do with them anymore?

As far as I know.....

Your contract is with Novatech, and the manufacturer provides a warranty
swapout service that is in addition to your statutory rights, and according
to my knowledge of the Sales of goods act, grounds for a refund include 'not
of satisfactory quality'. As the original monitor failed within 10 days of
purchase, and the replacement offered was second hand and still exhibits the
same fault, you could argue that the monitor isn;t of satisfactory quaility,
and neither is the swapout service. I think the fact that a replacement has
been issued is irrelevant, because the replacement is also faulty.

I'd write to Novatech, put the story in full, stating that you are rejecting
the monitor, based on it not being of satsfactory quality, and request a
refund . CC a copy to trading standards and your credit card company, and if
all else fails, county court.