If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
New system build - reboot loop when attempting to boot from SATA HDD
This is a new system build that fails to boot from the SATA HDD.
Instead, it appears to power down and restart, in a loop. Mobo: ASRock Z390 Taichi (original BIOS P1.20, since updated to P1.80) *RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws F4-3200C16Q-64GVK (4x16GB) *CPU: Intel Core i7-8700 Asus optical drive scavenged from parts drawer Samsung 2TB 5400RPM SATA HDD scavenged from parts drawer PS2 keyboard USB mouse Onboard video (also tested with older PCIe video card) *The CPU and RAM are on ASRock's approved compatible list for this mobo. With all parts on hand, I built the new system on a non-conductive table, using the mobo's non-static envelope for additional protection. I like to do the initial build outside of a case to make sure everything works before I go to the trouble of physically installing everything inside the case. The CPU and stock cooler installed without issue, with the stock cooler coming from the factory with heat transfer compound already applied. I installed a single memory module in slot A1 (closest to CPU). I connected a known working PSU (Corsair vx550w), the PS2 keyboard and the USB mouse. I connected a monitor via HDMI to the onboard video and fired it up. No optical drive or HDD connected at this point. The PSU is connected by the standard 24-pin connector and the 8-pin EPS12v connector. The mobo has a separate 4-pin ATX12v connector, which remains unconnected. ASRock tech support says that's fine. With no boot devices connected, the system came up directly in the BIOS screen, where everything looked normal. The CPU and RAM were recognized; the CPU fan RPM was reported as about 1580 RPM and CPU temp at 34C (later stabilizing at about 38-45C, depending on activity). I shut it down, plugged in a USB thumb drive with Memtest+ 6.00 on it, and started back up. As the only available boot device, the system automatically booted into the Memtest program. (Fast forward here, but I tested an individual RAM stick in slot A1, then B1, then A2, and finally B2. Then I jumped ahead and installed all 4 memory modules and let Memtest run overnight. Absolutely no issues so far, but I removed all but the A1 module before proceeding to the next test.) Next, I removed the Memtest USB thumb drive and connected the optical drive via SATA. I inserted a known good Linux Mint 19 disc and started the system. The 'live' Linux environment came up without any issues. I temporarily connected the breadboard system to my LAN and browsed the net for a period of time to watch for issues, but everything was fine. Next, I shut down and connected a single Samsung 2TB 5400 SATA HDD and restarted the system. Again, I booted the Linux live environment, but this time I elected to install Linux to the HDD. That completed without issue. The next step would be to boot into that new Linux install. When I was ready, I removed the Linux disc from the optical drive and rebooted, expecting the system to boot into Linux from the HDD. I got to the expected grub menu, where I have 4 choices and the first choice is the default: Linux Mint 19. Pressing Enter or allowing the timer to expire, the next thing that happens is all of the LEDs (there are quite a few on this mobo) go out, the CPU fan stops spinning, and after 2-3 seconds, the system powers up again, repeating the behavior described. It gets to the grub menu, then whether I intervene or not, it powers down and restarts, in a loop. === Status so far: Stable in the BIOS screens with no storage devices connected. Stable in Memtest when run from USB thumb drive. Stable in the live Linux environment when run from optical disc. **Unable to boot into Linux from the SATA HDD.** === I grabbed a second Samsung 2TB SATA HDD and different SATA cable, then installed Linux to that drive. I got exactly the same behavior described above. Next, with the SATA HDD still connected, I chose the Memtest option from the grub menu. A slightly older version comes up, 5.01 rather than the 6.00 that I have on the USB thumb drive, but Memtest comes up and runs successfully. Thinking it's possibly a too-weak PSU at 550W, I swapped in the 650W PSU from another working system, a Corsair tx650w, but it made absolutely no difference, so I went back to the 550W unit. Online PSU calculators tell me that I need between 230W and 340W, depending on the calculator, so adding a bit for headroom they think I should be OK with 350W to 450W, indicating to me that 550 and 650 are well into the safe area. Thinking it's an overheated CPU, I can see in the BIOS screen and in Memtest that the CPU temp hovers at 38-45C, but usually stays right around 40-41C. The heat fins on the CPU cooler appear to be at room temperature, but then I'm only running Memtest or viewing the BIOS screens, so not any appreciable load. (Yes, it's UEFI, but I'm used to calling it BIOS.) Thinking it's RAM that's not being properly recognized, I see in the BIOS that it's recognized as exactly what G.Skill says it should be: "DDR4-3200 PC4-25600 CL 16-18-18-38 1.35v" ASRock suggested RMA'ing the mobo and Newegg agreed, so I did. When the replacement arrived the other day, I repeated all of the steps listed above and eventually arrived at exactly the same place: === Status so far: Stable in the BIOS screens with no storage devices connected. Stable in Memtest when run from USB thumb drive. Stable in the live Linux environment when run from optical disc. **Unable to boot into Linux from the SATA HDD.** === Beginning to doubt the integrity of the Linux DVD, even after its integrity check was successful and it's a disc that I've used successfully before, I downloaded and burned the latest Windows 10 ISO. Booting from the Windows 10 disc, I get to the point where it starts to copy files to the HDD, then the system powers down, LEDs and CPU fan off, then 2-3 seconds later it powers up again and starts the Windows install from scratch. Even though I was able to install Linux twice on the first HDD and once on the second HDD, I couldn't get the system to stay up long enough to get Windows installed. I also tried burning the Windows 10 ISO to a USB thumb drive, but I couldn't get the system to stay up long enough to get Windows installed that way, either. BTW, there are 8 SATA ports on the mobo, 6 on one controller and 2 on another controller. I tried SATA ports from both groups. I'm currently on page 58 of 491 pages on the ASRock forums, and so far I've seen two others with a "system powers down and restarts" issue, but no resolution provided. I've built at least several hundred PC systems for people since the early 1990's, most of which have gone smoothly, but this one currently has me stumped. This build is supposed to be for me, if I can get it working. At this point, I'm not sure where to go next. - Is it running out of power? Do I need a newer, bigger, PSU? - Is there an issue with the CPU? - Should I chalk this expensive mobo, my first ASRock, up to experience and go with something from ASUS or Gigabyte? |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
New system build - reboot loop when attempting to boot from SATAHDD
On 12/17/2018 9:11 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
This is a new system build that fails to boot from the SATA HDD. Instead, it appears to power down and restart, in a loop. Mobo: ASRock Z390 Taichi (original BIOS P1.20, since updated to P1.80) *RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws F4-3200C16Q-64GVK (4x16GB) *CPU: Intel Core i7-8700 Asus optical drive scavenged from parts drawer Samsung 2TB 5400RPM SATA HDD scavenged from parts drawer PS2 keyboard USB mouse Onboard video (also tested with older PCIe video card) *The CPU and RAM are on ASRock's approved compatible list for this mobo. With all parts on hand, I built the new system on a non-conductive table, using the mobo's non-static envelope for additional protection. I like to do the initial build outside of a case to make sure everything works before I go to the trouble of physically installing everything inside the case. The CPU and stock cooler installed without issue, with the stock cooler coming from the factory with heat transfer compound already applied. I installed a single memory module in slot A1 (closest to CPU). I connected a known working PSU (Corsair vx550w), the PS2 keyboard and the USB mouse. I connected a monitor via HDMI to the onboard video and fired it up. No optical drive or HDD connected at this point. The PSU is connected by the standard 24-pin connector and the 8-pin EPS12v connector. The mobo has a separate 4-pin ATX12v connector, which remains unconnected. ASRock tech support says that's fine. With no boot devices connected, the system came up directly in the BIOS screen, where everything looked normal. The CPU and RAM were recognized; the CPU fan RPM was reported as about 1580 RPM and CPU temp at 34C (later stabilizing at about 38-45C, depending on activity). I shut it down, plugged in a USB thumb drive with Memtest+ 6.00 on it, and started back up. As the only available boot device, the system automatically booted into the Memtest program. (Fast forward here, but I tested an individual RAM stick in slot A1, then B1, then A2, and finally B2. Then I jumped ahead and installed all 4 memory modules and let Memtest run overnight. Absolutely no issues so far, but I removed all but the A1 module before proceeding to the next test.) Next, I removed the Memtest USB thumb drive and connected the optical drive via SATA. I inserted a known good Linux Mint 19 disc and started the system. The 'live' Linux environment came up without any issues. I temporarily connected the breadboard system to my LAN and browsed the net for a period of time to watch for issues, but everything was fine. Next, I shut down and connected a single Samsung 2TB 5400 SATA HDD and restarted the system. Again, I booted the Linux live environment, but this time I elected to install Linux to the HDD. That completed without issue. The next step would be to boot into that new Linux install. When I was ready, I removed the Linux disc from the optical drive and rebooted, expecting the system to boot into Linux from the HDD. I got to the expected grub menu, where I have 4 choices and the first choice is the default: Linux Mint 19. Pressing Enter or allowing the timer to expire, the next thing that happens is all of the LEDs (there are quite a few on this mobo) go out, the CPU fan stops spinning, and after 2-3 seconds, the system powers up again, repeating the behavior described. It gets to the grub menu, then whether I intervene or not, it powers down and restarts, in a loop. === Status so far: Stable in the BIOS screens with no storage devices connected. Stable in Memtest when run from USB thumb drive. Stable in the live Linux environment when run from optical disc. **Unable to boot into Linux from the SATA HDD.** === I grabbed a second Samsung 2TB SATA HDD and different SATA cable, then installed Linux to that drive. I got exactly the same behavior described above. Next, with the SATA HDD still connected, I chose the Memtest option from the grub menu. A slightly older version comes up, 5.01 rather than the 6.00 that I have on the USB thumb drive, but Memtest comes up and runs successfully. Thinking it's possibly a too-weak PSU at 550W, I swapped in the 650W PSU from another working system, a Corsair tx650w, but it made absolutely no difference, so I went back to the 550W unit. Online PSU calculators tell me that I need between 230W and 340W, depending on the calculator, so adding a bit for headroom they think I should be OK with 350W to 450W, indicating to me that 550 and 650 are well into the safe area. Thinking it's an overheated CPU, I can see in the BIOS screen and in Memtest that the CPU temp hovers at 38-45C, but usually stays right around 40-41C. The heat fins on the CPU cooler appear to be at room temperature, but then I'm only running Memtest or viewing the BIOS screens, so not any appreciable load. (Yes, it's UEFI, but I'm used to calling it BIOS.) Thinking it's RAM that's not being properly recognized, I see in the BIOS that it's recognized as exactly what G.Skill says it should be: "DDR4-3200 PC4-25600 CL 16-18-18-38 1.35v" ASRock suggested RMA'ing the mobo and Newegg agreed, so I did. When the replacement arrived the other day, I repeated all of the steps listed above and eventually arrived at exactly the same place: === Status so far: Stable in the BIOS screens with no storage devices connected. Stable in Memtest when run from USB thumb drive. Stable in the live Linux environment when run from optical disc. **Unable to boot into Linux from the SATA HDD.** === Beginning to doubt the integrity of the Linux DVD, even after its integrity check was successful and it's a disc that I've used successfully before, I downloaded and burned the latest Windows 10 ISO. Booting from the Windows 10 disc, I get to the point where it starts to copy files to the HDD, then the system powers down, LEDs and CPU fan off, then 2-3 seconds later it powers up again and starts the Windows install from scratch. Even though I was able to install Linux twice on the first HDD and once on the second HDD, I couldn't get the system to stay up long enough to get Windows installed. I also tried burning the Windows 10 ISO to a USB thumb drive, but I couldn't get the system to stay up long enough to get Windows installed that way, either. BTW, there are 8 SATA ports on the mobo, 6 on one controller and 2 on another controller. I tried SATA ports from both groups. I'm currently on page 58 of 491 pages on the ASRock forums, and so far I've seen two others with a "system powers down and restarts" issue, but no resolution provided. I've built at least several hundred PC systems for people since the early 1990's, most of which have gone smoothly, but this one currently has me stumped. This build is supposed to be for me, if I can get it working. At this point, I'm not sure where to go next. - Is it running out of power? Do I need a newer, bigger, PSU? - Is there an issue with the CPU? - Should I chalk this expensive mobo, my first ASRock, up to experience and go with something from ASUS or Gigabyte? Standard debugging procedu Divide the system into two pieces. Test each individually. Divide busted part into two pieces. Test each individually. Divide busted part...you get the point. Does the drive boot in a different system? Does a working drive boot in this system? rinse/repeat... FWIW, there's a lot of settings in the BIOS/UEFI |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
New system build - reboot loop when attempting to boot from SATA HDD
On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:05:11 -0800, mike wrote:
Standard debugging procedu Divide the system into two pieces. Test each individually. Divide busted part into two pieces. Test each individually. Divide busted part...you get the point. Right, standard troubleshooting procedures, except in a case like this you can't very well do that, so what I've tried to do is more of a substitution approach. I've tried two different PSUs, two (identical) motherboards, varying numbers of RAM modules in varying slots, two different SATA HDDs, two different SATA cables, and two different operating systems on two different media (USB and DVD, total of 4 combos). I don't have another CPU to drop in, but I'm hesitant to think that's the issue, and I haven't tried a different optical drive, keyboard, or mouse. I did try a PCIe graphics card to make sure it wasn't somehow related to the onboard video, but that didn't help. Does the drive boot in a different system? I don't really expect it to, but I haven't tried. The only other system available at the moment is an older AMD-based PC, so that's pretty different from what I'm working on. Let me think about that. Does a working drive boot in this system? rinse/repeat... I'll give it a try, thanks. I expect it to blue screen, but that assumes that it gets farther into the boot process than what I have now, so it could indicate something. FWIW, there's a lot of settings in the BIOS/UEFI True, but so far I'm not seeing anything on the ASRock forums about the defaults being unbootable. Lots of people talking about OC, but I'm not trying to do that. Thanks for the suggestions. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
New system build - reboot loop when attempting to boot from SATAHDD
On 12/17/2018 1:07 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:05:11 -0800, mike wrote: Standard debugging procedu Divide the system into two pieces. Test each individually. Divide busted part into two pieces. Test each individually. Divide busted part...you get the point. Right, standard troubleshooting procedures, except in a case like this you can't very well do that, so what I've tried to do is more of a substitution approach. I've tried two different PSUs, two (identical) motherboards, varying numbers of RAM modules in varying slots, two different SATA HDDs, two different SATA cables, and two different operating systems on two different media (USB and DVD, total of 4 combos). I don't have another CPU to drop in, but I'm hesitant to think that's the issue, and I haven't tried a different optical drive, keyboard, or mouse. I did try a PCIe graphics card to make sure it wasn't somehow related to the onboard video, but that didn't help. Does the drive boot in a different system? I don't really expect it to, but I haven't tried. The only other system available at the moment is an older AMD-based PC, so that's pretty different from what I'm working on. Let me think about that. I've found linux to be very resilient when swapping drives between systems. Often have driver issues, but the systems almost always boot and mostly work. The other side of the coin is that I've seen several linux distros that run fine from the live DVD, but won't run when installed. I don't remember seeing a boot loop though. Maybe try another distro. I've had issues with linux mint beyond 17. Windows 10 has shown to be very flexible when swapping hard drives around, except for activation, which you don't really need anyway. Might be worth cloning a win10 system to the drive and see if it boots. Does a working drive boot in this system? rinse/repeat... I'll give it a try, thanks. I expect it to blue screen, but that assumes that it gets farther into the boot process than what I have now, so it could indicate something. Another issue I've had recently relates to partition alignment. I had old drives that were formatted with 32Kbyte partition offset. I installed a new win10 OS without letting windows reformat the drive as I'd done dozens of times in the past. Well, win10 v1809 assumed 1MB aligned partitions and refused to install. Win10 V17xx installed without complaint, but wouldn't boot. FWIW, there's a lot of settings in the BIOS/UEFI True, but so far I'm not seeing anything on the ASRock forums about the defaults being unbootable. Lots of people talking about OC, but I'm not trying to do that. Thanks for the suggestions. I've had issues when the boot order defined in the BIOS is incorrect. Some systems just skip missing drives in the boot order. Others hang waiting for the drive. Others give up and reboot without continuing down the list. I assume there's a hotkey that lets you select the boot device and you've tried that. I put PLOP boot manager on a thumb drive and use that to select the boot device when the BIOS doesn't have a boot hotkey. Another possibility. Do you have any USB devices? I've had issues where the system refuses to boot if there's a non bootable USB thumb drive plugged in. Unlikely, but if you have USB keyboard/mouse, maybe that's an issue. Worth a look when you run out of options. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
New system build - reboot loop when attempting to boot from SATA HDD
On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 11:11:14 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote: (Yes, it's UEFI, but I'm used to calling it BIOS.) I've built at least several hundred PC systems for people since the early 1990's, most of which have gone smoothly, but this one currently has me stumped. This build is supposed to be for me, if I can get it working. - Have or can you optionally turn off UEFI for Legacy compatibility? Does the Intel CPU itself qualify for Microsoft non-support for "newer devices", for anything but the latest Windows 10 drivers? When I tried to bring up XP on an AMD octal core I had to shut down everything on the BIOS CPU page. I could only stabilize XP by allowing it adapt to paired-cores, one at a time, from a successful boot as a 2-core system (BIOS allows turning off all other cores), then 4 cores, six, then eight. Each time rebooting, upon a successful load, with an addition paired-core added. Which I also binary-imaged, the OS, to avoid possibly having to the go back a dual-core, as much procedurally, in starting over in the event of a misstep. All Legacy BIOS in these woods. And other than the cores, I haven't yet gotten back to the BIOS to begin refreshing my knowledge of the individual settings, to test virtually everything else I turned off and hobbled on the CPU page. Sounds to me like you're also into BIOS, except it's a more advanced stage, and you need to call it for what it is - UEFI. I would. I'd also consider turning it off. (All or selectively no doubt is an interesting quandary.) Nevertheless, a reasonable thing to expect to ask, even if I've never owned one, at the very least for the sake of compatibility prior to a state of UEFI. Just as it would be to assume ASRock (an ASUS subsidiary) wouldn't expect people only to run Windows 10 on your Intel chipsets, but as well provides W7 drivers. However that works in a latter case with an OS designed before UEFI. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
New system build - reboot loop when attempting to boot from SATA HDD
On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:41:44 -0800, mike wrote:
Another issue I've had recently relates to partition alignment. I had old drives that were formatted with 32Kbyte partition offset. That rang a bell with me. I had a system refuse to boot due to the allocation unit size. I'd tried using a large size for a partition I used for backup and it did the power off and try again thing even though the boot and system partitions hadn't changed. This was with Windows 10 but it wasn't getting far enough to attempt the boot if I remember correctly. -- Regards - Rodney Pont The from address exists but is mostly dumped, please send any emails to the address below e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
New system build - reboot loop when attempting to boot from SATA HDD
Char Jackson wrote:
This is a new system build that fails to boot from the SATA HDD. Instead, it appears to power down and restart, in a loop. Mobo: ASRock Z390 Taichi (original BIOS P1.20, since updated to P1.80) *RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws F4-3200C16Q-64GVK (4x16GB) *CPU: Intel Core i7-8700 Asus optical drive scavenged from parts drawer Samsung 2TB 5400RPM SATA HDD scavenged from parts drawer PS2 keyboard USB mouse Onboard video (also tested with older PCIe video card) *The CPU and RAM are on ASRock's approved compatible list for this mobo. With all parts on hand, I built the new system on a non-conductive table, using the mobo's non-static envelope for additional protection. I like to do the initial build outside of a case to make sure everything works before I go to the trouble of physically installing everything inside the case. The CPU and stock cooler installed without issue, with the stock cooler coming from the factory with heat transfer compound already applied. I installed a single memory module in slot A1 (closest to CPU). I connected a known working PSU (Corsair vx550w), the PS2 keyboard and the USB mouse. I connected a monitor via HDMI to the onboard video and fired it up. No optical drive or HDD connected at this point. The PSU is connected by the standard 24-pin connector and the 8-pin EPS12v connector. The mobo has a separate 4-pin ATX12v connector, which remains unconnected. ASRock tech support says that's fine. With no boot devices connected, the system came up directly in the BIOS screen, where everything looked normal. The CPU and RAM were recognized; the CPU fan RPM was reported as about 1580 RPM and CPU temp at 34C (later stabilizing at about 38-45C, depending on activity). I shut it down, plugged in a USB thumb drive with Memtest+ 6.00 on it, and started back up. As the only available boot device, the system automatically booted into the Memtest program. (Fast forward here, but I tested an individual RAM stick in slot A1, then B1, then A2, and finally B2. Then I jumped ahead and installed all 4 memory modules and let Memtest run overnight. Absolutely no issues so far, but I removed all but the A1 module before proceeding to the next test.) Next, I removed the Memtest USB thumb drive and connected the optical drive via SATA. I inserted a known good Linux Mint 19 disc and started the system. The 'live' Linux environment came up without any issues. I temporarily connected the breadboard system to my LAN and browsed the net for a period of time to watch for issues, but everything was fine. Next, I shut down and connected a single Samsung 2TB 5400 SATA HDD and restarted the system. Again, I booted the Linux live environment, but this time I elected to install Linux to the HDD. That completed without issue. The next step would be to boot into that new Linux install. When I was ready, I removed the Linux disc from the optical drive and rebooted, expecting the system to boot into Linux from the HDD. I got to the expected grub menu, where I have 4 choices and the first choice is the default: Linux Mint 19. Pressing Enter or allowing the timer to expire, the next thing that happens is all of the LEDs (there are quite a few on this mobo) go out, the CPU fan stops spinning, and after 2-3 seconds, the system powers up again, repeating the behavior described. It gets to the grub menu, then whether I intervene or not, it powers down and restarts, in a loop. === Status so far: Stable in the BIOS screens with no storage devices connected. Stable in Memtest when run from USB thumb drive. Stable in the live Linux environment when run from optical disc. **Unable to boot into Linux from the SATA HDD.** === I grabbed a second Samsung 2TB SATA HDD and different SATA cable, then installed Linux to that drive. I got exactly the same behavior described above. Next, with the SATA HDD still connected, I chose the Memtest option from the grub menu. A slightly older version comes up, 5.01 rather than the 6.00 that I have on the USB thumb drive, but Memtest comes up and runs successfully. Thinking it's possibly a too-weak PSU at 550W, I swapped in the 650W PSU from another working system, a Corsair tx650w, but it made absolutely no difference, so I went back to the 550W unit. Online PSU calculators tell me that I need between 230W and 340W, depending on the calculator, so adding a bit for headroom they think I should be OK with 350W to 450W, indicating to me that 550 and 650 are well into the safe area. Thinking it's an overheated CPU, I can see in the BIOS screen and in Memtest that the CPU temp hovers at 38-45C, but usually stays right around 40-41C. The heat fins on the CPU cooler appear to be at room temperature, but then I'm only running Memtest or viewing the BIOS screens, so not any appreciable load. (Yes, it's UEFI, but I'm used to calling it BIOS.) Thinking it's RAM that's not being properly recognized, I see in the BIOS that it's recognized as exactly what G.Skill says it should be: "DDR4-3200 PC4-25600 CL 16-18-18-38 1.35v" ASRock suggested RMA'ing the mobo and Newegg agreed, so I did. When the replacement arrived the other day, I repeated all of the steps listed above and eventually arrived at exactly the same place: === Status so far: Stable in the BIOS screens with no storage devices connected. Stable in Memtest when run from USB thumb drive. Stable in the live Linux environment when run from optical disc. **Unable to boot into Linux from the SATA HDD.** === Beginning to doubt the integrity of the Linux DVD, even after its integrity check was successful and it's a disc that I've used successfully before, I downloaded and burned the latest Windows 10 ISO. Booting from the Windows 10 disc, I get to the point where it starts to copy files to the HDD, then the system powers down, LEDs and CPU fan off, then 2-3 seconds later it powers up again and starts the Windows install from scratch. Even though I was able to install Linux twice on the first HDD and once on the second HDD, I couldn't get the system to stay up long enough to get Windows installed. I also tried burning the Windows 10 ISO to a USB thumb drive, but I couldn't get the system to stay up long enough to get Windows installed that way, either. BTW, there are 8 SATA ports on the mobo, 6 on one controller and 2 on another controller. I tried SATA ports from both groups. I'm currently on page 58 of 491 pages on the ASRock forums, and so far I've seen two others with a "system powers down and restarts" issue, but no resolution provided. I've built at least several hundred PC systems for people since the early 1990's, most of which have gone smoothly, but this one currently has me stumped. This build is supposed to be for me, if I can get it working. At this point, I'm not sure where to go next. - Is it running out of power? Do I need a newer, bigger, PSU? - Is there an issue with the CPU? - Should I chalk this expensive mobo, my first ASRock, up to experience and go with something from ASUS or Gigabyte? With no drives drives connected, just 1 memory module, and using onboard video (BIOS configured to use the i7 CPU's graphics), the 550W PSU would be more than sufficient to provide power to that minimal non-bootable setup. You can load GRUB which is in the bootstrap code of the MBR, so the HDD is getting enough power for its surge current to start spinning. There's enough power for that but as soon as you try to run an OS from the HDD then you get the power loss. Mint runs from a USB boot drive. Presuming that loads the CPU the same as for Mint on an HDD, the CPU is ruled out, like the paste being absent or badly applied, no contact with the heatsink, or its fan not spinning. CPU temperature is okay. CPU fan RPM seems low but if the temps are okay then hopefully the BIOS' range on CPU RPM goes lower than 1500 RPM before it does a safety shutdown. I'd still look at the thermal settings in BIOS to be sure they were okay with the hardware setup. The Corsair vx550w has only one +12V rail. No having to balance loads across rails. I was thinking you could try using one of the Molex power connectors with an adapter to a SATA power connector to put the HDD on a different rail, but there isn't another rail. This isn't a modular PSU, so a big mess of cabling coming out of it. Have you tried a different SATA power connector from the PSU? The VX is their value series, so not top of the line models. That PSU is probably way outside its 5-year warranty (looks like it showed up around 2007). Many PSUs lose about 5% of their rated capacity per year (assuming they ever could sustain the rated capacity in the first place). By now, it might be down to 56% of its rated capacity. I'd check the mobo's specs, for 1 memory module, and the i7 CPU to see if their total power draw was under 312 watts. Unless I paid $200 for a high-quality PSU, I'd probably replace the PSU along with the CMOS battery after 6-8 years (users have been holding onto the PCs for longer, and the same with their cars, so before it wasn't an issue regarding gradual capacity loss since most PCs got replaced before 6 years old). Remember that Corsair does not manufacturer anything. They spec out what they want from the factory and sell on their brand name. No idea who actually made that Corsair PSU. Maybe looking inside might reveal the maker from from stickers inside. A lot of PSUs are made by CWT (Channel Well Tech, http://www.cwt.com.tw/), like for Thermaltake (poor but depends on who is the OEM for a model) and Corsair (fair to good). Quite often the same OEM produces varying quality produces which is dependent on the requirements specified by the designer/customer (whomever is stamping their brand on the PSU). I don't know they have changed their style from the past when you could tell CWT was the OEM because of all the green tape inside the PSU for many of their models (their brand or rebranded), for example: http://s3.amazonaws.com/hs-wordpress...38/370_071.jpg You might also look at the label on the transformer to see "CWT" there. You might discove the OEM by looking inside. If it is an 80-plus certificed PSU, there should be a report, and that will identify who is the real manufacturer. I like to stay with PSUs whose brand is the same as the manufacture or they actually design the PSU and require the plant they hire to build to specs (e.g., FSP who underrate their PSUs, Enermax). https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...er,2913-4.html Note: The charts may be too small to read, even when clicked to enlarge. Click on an image, right-click on it, open in new window, and then magnify. Yellow = OEMs - who actually manufacturers the PSU (and may sell under their own name while also doling out for rebranding). Orange = Design/spec the PSU but have someone else make it. Gray = No tech involvement, just reselling something usually unknown or low end (value models). Notice FSP is a design & manufacture brand. Corsair is a design & someone-else-manufacture brand (CWT, Seasonic, Chicony, Flextronics). The landscape may have changed since that article was published. I don't refer such charts (but found one this time). Instead I just remember a few OEMs that also sell under their own brand, like FSP, Enermax, HEC, Seasonic. Not every model they've ever made is perfect but generally they produce good to excellent PSUs. That also doesn't mean Corsair isn't good, just that they don't produce but just spec out what they want produced, or they select existing products that meet their specs. They rebrand. The same for OCZ products that a lot of users like to buy. Oh, you aren't overclocking the CPU in the BIOS settings, are you? Just start out with the default settings and use SPD for memory timings. From all our testing, my guess it you need to test with a newer and perhaps better PSU. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
New system build - reboot loop when attempting to boot from SATAHDD
Char Jackson wrote:
This is a new system build that fails to boot from the SATA HDD. Instead, it appears to power down and restart, in a loop. Mobo: ASRock Z390 Taichi (original BIOS P1.20, since updated to P1.80) *RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws F4-3200C16Q-64GVK (4x16GB) *CPU: Intel Core i7-8700 Asus optical drive scavenged from parts drawer Samsung 2TB 5400RPM SATA HDD scavenged from parts drawer PS2 keyboard USB mouse Onboard video (also tested with older PCIe video card) *The CPU and RAM are on ASRock's approved compatible list for this mobo. With all parts on hand, I built the new system on a non-conductive table, using the mobo's non-static envelope for additional protection. I like to do the initial build outside of a case to make sure everything works before I go to the trouble of physically installing everything inside the case. The CPU and stock cooler installed without issue, with the stock cooler coming from the factory with heat transfer compound already applied. I installed a single memory module in slot A1 (closest to CPU). I connected a known working PSU (Corsair vx550w), the PS2 keyboard and the USB mouse. I connected a monitor via HDMI to the onboard video and fired it up. No optical drive or HDD connected at this point. The PSU is connected by the standard 24-pin connector and the 8-pin EPS12v connector. The mobo has a separate 4-pin ATX12v connector, which remains unconnected. ASRock tech support says that's fine. With no boot devices connected, the system came up directly in the BIOS screen, where everything looked normal. The CPU and RAM were recognized; the CPU fan RPM was reported as about 1580 RPM and CPU temp at 34C (later stabilizing at about 38-45C, depending on activity). I shut it down, plugged in a USB thumb drive with Memtest+ 6.00 on it, and started back up. As the only available boot device, the system automatically booted into the Memtest program. (Fast forward here, but I tested an individual RAM stick in slot A1, then B1, then A2, and finally B2. Then I jumped ahead and installed all 4 memory modules and let Memtest run overnight. Absolutely no issues so far, but I removed all but the A1 module before proceeding to the next test.) Next, I removed the Memtest USB thumb drive and connected the optical drive via SATA. I inserted a known good Linux Mint 19 disc and started the system. The 'live' Linux environment came up without any issues. I temporarily connected the breadboard system to my LAN and browsed the net for a period of time to watch for issues, but everything was fine. Next, I shut down and connected a single Samsung 2TB 5400 SATA HDD and restarted the system. Again, I booted the Linux live environment, but this time I elected to install Linux to the HDD. That completed without issue. The next step would be to boot into that new Linux install. When I was ready, I removed the Linux disc from the optical drive and rebooted, expecting the system to boot into Linux from the HDD. I got to the expected grub menu, where I have 4 choices and the first choice is the default: Linux Mint 19. Pressing Enter or allowing the timer to expire, the next thing that happens is all of the LEDs (there are quite a few on this mobo) go out, the CPU fan stops spinning, and after 2-3 seconds, the system powers up again, repeating the behavior described. It gets to the grub menu, then whether I intervene or not, it powers down and restarts, in a loop. === Status so far: Stable in the BIOS screens with no storage devices connected. Stable in Memtest when run from USB thumb drive. Stable in the live Linux environment when run from optical disc. **Unable to boot into Linux from the SATA HDD.** === I grabbed a second Samsung 2TB SATA HDD and different SATA cable, then installed Linux to that drive. I got exactly the same behavior described above. Next, with the SATA HDD still connected, I chose the Memtest option from the grub menu. A slightly older version comes up, 5.01 rather than the 6.00 that I have on the USB thumb drive, but Memtest comes up and runs successfully. Thinking it's possibly a too-weak PSU at 550W, I swapped in the 650W PSU from another working system, a Corsair tx650w, but it made absolutely no difference, so I went back to the 550W unit. Online PSU calculators tell me that I need between 230W and 340W, depending on the calculator, so adding a bit for headroom they think I should be OK with 350W to 450W, indicating to me that 550 and 650 are well into the safe area. Thinking it's an overheated CPU, I can see in the BIOS screen and in Memtest that the CPU temp hovers at 38-45C, but usually stays right around 40-41C. The heat fins on the CPU cooler appear to be at room temperature, but then I'm only running Memtest or viewing the BIOS screens, so not any appreciable load. (Yes, it's UEFI, but I'm used to calling it BIOS.) Thinking it's RAM that's not being properly recognized, I see in the BIOS that it's recognized as exactly what G.Skill says it should be: "DDR4-3200 PC4-25600 CL 16-18-18-38 1.35v" ASRock suggested RMA'ing the mobo and Newegg agreed, so I did. When the replacement arrived the other day, I repeated all of the steps listed above and eventually arrived at exactly the same place: === Status so far: Stable in the BIOS screens with no storage devices connected. Stable in Memtest when run from USB thumb drive. Stable in the live Linux environment when run from optical disc. **Unable to boot into Linux from the SATA HDD.** === Beginning to doubt the integrity of the Linux DVD, even after its integrity check was successful and it's a disc that I've used successfully before, I downloaded and burned the latest Windows 10 ISO. Booting from the Windows 10 disc, I get to the point where it starts to copy files to the HDD, then the system powers down, LEDs and CPU fan off, then 2-3 seconds later it powers up again and starts the Windows install from scratch. Even though I was able to install Linux twice on the first HDD and once on the second HDD, I couldn't get the system to stay up long enough to get Windows installed. I also tried burning the Windows 10 ISO to a USB thumb drive, but I couldn't get the system to stay up long enough to get Windows installed that way, either. BTW, there are 8 SATA ports on the mobo, 6 on one controller and 2 on another controller. I tried SATA ports from both groups. I'm currently on page 58 of 491 pages on the ASRock forums, and so far I've seen two others with a "system powers down and restarts" issue, but no resolution provided. I've built at least several hundred PC systems for people since the early 1990's, most of which have gone smoothly, but this one currently has me stumped. This build is supposed to be for me, if I can get it working. At this point, I'm not sure where to go next. - Is it running out of power? Do I need a newer, bigger, PSU? - Is there an issue with the CPU? - Should I chalk this expensive mobo, my first ASRock, up to experience and go with something from ASUS or Gigabyte? Do you have a Kill-O-Watt meter ? My Test System right now, varies from 100W to 350W (furmark). Booting draws as much as 170W, which suggests the CPU is railed on one core during parts of POST. I don't think I have any PSUs in the house, that could not power the system in that state. Only Furmark would be in danger of tipping over the most gutless supply. I was rather surprised what it takes to wake my new video card up. Even playing BF2 it was only drawing 130W or so. During installation, install media needs to be decompressed. On Linux, it's a squashfs perhaps. On Windows, it's their "fancy compressor which compresses as good as 7ZIP or RAR". These need to be decompressed during installation phase. Windows in the past, has elected to use more than one core during decompression. This implies (perhaps) that each file could be compressed individually. So more than one file could be processed at a time, depending on source media read rate. if you expect to do a good job of maximizing power consumption, you'll need Furmark (good) or Prime95 (less). If the Linux LiveCD will boot, you can go to mersenne.org/downloads and get the static linked Linux Prime95 and run the torture test. That will heat up the CPU nicely. Using lmsensors or equivalent, should allow monitoring CPU temps. ******* Got a $20 SSD handy ? Install onto that ? ******* Install Linux from a USB key... to a USB key ? The intention in this case, is to avoid SATA entirely. You would be creating a slash ("/") and swap on the USB key and installing file by file as normal. This isn't particularly good for the USB key of course, but it's just for a test, not for long-term running. ******* Seatools has a USB bootable option. AFAIK the Samsung division was bought by Seagate ? Maybe (by now) Samsung branded drives are included ? https://www.seagate.com/ca/en/support/downloads/ Running a HDD test, would prove whether it's "just" HDD access that tips it over. ******* I would take one last thorough pass through the BIOS settings, to see if there are any power limiters or something. There's got to be a hint in there somewhere. ******* In the past, some BIOS did a poor job of resource planning. Most OS installed involve "PNP OS: No", which means that the BIOS plans the memory and address map. In one case, writes to RAM were actually writing to a USB overcurrent register, and causing an overcurrent message to appear on the screen. And this is a side effect of the BIOS not being able to plan a memory map properly. This typically happened on older systems with 8GB limits, where the user installed 4GB of RAM, and then... the BIOS would lose its mind. ******* Well, really, I'm stumped. Sounds like a design flaw. But I wouldn't let that stop me from having a little fun and running the more obscure test cases. Before trying a Gigabyte board. Dumping the Samsung HDD and testing something else would be relatively high up my list. Just in case. ******* The best part about some of the stuff I've run, is not remembering the results at all :-) https://www.easyuefi.com/wintousb/ "Hasleo software" "best free Windows To Go Creator" I think there is supposed to be a free version, maybe that's it. A USB-to-go would allow running Windows without an install step. I think I might have also booted an Enterprise Windows VM and tried to make an OTG stick from there too, in VirtualBox, with USB passthru. Hasleo might be an attempt to do that with non-Enterprise windows. Paul |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
New system build - reboot loop when attempting to boot from SATA HDD
On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:41:44 -0800, mike wrote:
On 12/17/2018 1:07 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:05:11 -0800, mike wrote: Standard debugging procedu Divide the system into two pieces. Test each individually. Divide busted part into two pieces. Test each individually. Divide busted part...you get the point. Right, standard troubleshooting procedures, except in a case like this you can't very well do that, so what I've tried to do is more of a substitution approach. I've tried two different PSUs, two (identical) motherboards, varying numbers of RAM modules in varying slots, two different SATA HDDs, two different SATA cables, and two different operating systems on two different media (USB and DVD, total of 4 combos). I don't have another CPU to drop in, but I'm hesitant to think that's the issue, and I haven't tried a different optical drive, keyboard, or mouse. I did try a PCIe graphics card to make sure it wasn't somehow related to the onboard video, but that didn't help. Does the drive boot in a different system? I don't really expect it to, but I haven't tried. The only other system available at the moment is an older AMD-based PC, so that's pretty different from what I'm working on. Let me think about that. I've found linux to be very resilient when swapping drives between systems. Often have driver issues, but the systems almost always boot and mostly work. This afternoon I took a recent Win10 ISO image and burned it to an m.2 NVMe drive. I disconnected the optical drive and the SATA HDD, then installed the m.2 drive. Twice, out of about 20 boot attempts, I saw a flash of the initial login screen from Win10, but in every case the system would power down, pause, and restart. So it's not a Samsung 2TB SATA HDD issue. Next, I booted my Linux Mint 19 disc on the other PC, after connecting a 17th SATA HDD, (that PC is my 16-drive, 40TB, server), then I installed Mint 19 to drive 17. I brought that drive over to the new system but it behaved exactly like everything before it: I get to the grub menu, but about a second after I hit Enter to launch Mint, the system powers down, pauses, then restarts. The other side of the coin is that I've seen several linux distros that run fine from the live DVD, but won't run when installed. I don't remember seeing a boot loop though. Maybe try another distro. I've had issues with linux mint beyond 17. I've used this exact Mint 19 disc several times already, so I trust it, although this is my first Z390 board so something could be different or incompatible by default. Windows 10 has shown to be very flexible when swapping hard drives around, except for activation, which you don't really need anyway. Might be worth cloning a win10 system to the drive and see if it boots. Done, see above. No joy, but everything I rule out gets me one step closer. Does a working drive boot in this system? rinse/repeat... I'll give it a try, thanks. I expect it to blue screen, but that assumes that it gets farther into the boot process than what I have now, so it could indicate something. Another issue I've had recently relates to partition alignment. I had old drives that were formatted with 32Kbyte partition offset. I installed a new win10 OS without letting windows reformat the drive as I'd done dozens of times in the past. Well, win10 v1809 assumed 1MB aligned partitions and refused to install. Win10 V17xx installed without complaint, but wouldn't boot. MiniTool Partition Wizard says no alignment is necessary. The actual message is, "The specified partition does not need to change partitions alignment. It is already aligned." FWIW, there's a lot of settings in the BIOS/UEFI True, but so far I'm not seeing anything on the ASRock forums about the defaults being unbootable. Lots of people talking about OC, but I'm not trying to do that. Thanks for the suggestions. I've had issues when the boot order defined in the BIOS is incorrect. Some systems just skip missing drives in the boot order. Others hang waiting for the drive. Others give up and reboot without continuing down the list. I assume there's a hotkey that lets you select the boot device and you've tried that. Yes, F11 is the key for the popup boot manager. That part has been fine. I can set a default boot order, or I can make a one-time change, and my choice has always been respected. I put PLOP boot manager on a thumb drive and use that to select the boot device when the BIOS doesn't have a boot hotkey. Another possibility. Do you have any USB devices? I've had issues where the system refuses to boot if there's a non bootable USB thumb drive plugged in. Unlikely, but if you have USB keyboard/mouse, maybe that's an issue. Worth a look when you run out of options. The mouse is USB, but I sincerely hope that a USB mouse can't take down a system like this. Surely, if it were a widespread issue, people would be complaining and it wouldn't be allowed to continue. I haven't seen a peep in the ASRock forums. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
New system build - reboot loop when attempting to boot from SATA HDD
On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 22:20:21 +0000 (GMT), "rp"
wrote: That rang a bell with me. I had a system refuse to boot due to the allocation unit size. I'd tried using a large size for a partition I used for backup and it did the power off and try again thing even though the boot and system partitions hadn't changed. This was with Windows 10 but it wasn't getting far enough to attempt the boot if I remember correctly. I only had one, but that's an much older MB than an old, then new, $120/US Crucial 250G I put into it much later, years after buying the MB. And then I couldn't get past a basic Windows 98 DOS command-line, perfunctory-utility partition. I'd gotten so far to boot to the command prompt, on that SSD, but couldn't lay in, subsequently, a *NIXDOS emulation, boot arbitrator for the other primary partitions, I'd already prepared for activation. I wouldn't neither have had a W7 setup available at that time. Half-a-dozen, more partitioning methods and programs, I'd hit that Crucial SSD with, but nothing worked or made a dent. (Whereas an earlier Samsung 128G SSD took them in perfect working order, without issue.) I then tried a couple versions of Partition Magic, lacking anything else left;- they were the oldest programs of anything else I had. Whereupon a token PartMagic repartition of the W98 DOS, subsequently test good for whether a boot arbitrator would hold to surface for arbitration to boot into the DOS partition. As well, apparently, to have "realigned" the Crucial SSD geometry to match the BIOS. A miraculous event had occurred. A witch's-brew, SSD sector translation geometry should not be ruled out of older builds, along with suspect software associations, needlessly to say I'm by far more comfortable with newer MB chipset's SSD boot integrity. Although I still prefer to keep a variety of alignment and formatting utilities for as much chance, diversity, or the scatter-gun effect. I may upon special occasions bounce back and forth between an installation test, across both a mechanical and SS drive, to verify other than translational geometry is the result of a fault. But I think the days of chipset-controller blues generally are now negated with a couple new Legacy MB purchases this past year. I've just one original SSD binary OS image left, which has, more of recent, come to a state, that the software that I used to create it, now reports sector-partition inconsistencies upon initiation of the indicated receptor device for a rewrite operation. A Samsung 64G "receptor" SSD, when a SSD was once 64G, so a time discrepancy is one, probably, for putting the 64G into a W7 box, reformatting and refreshing repopulated data partitions, with a fresh OS install to reduplicate. Or not, depending where kludge and laziness are easier to deal with it. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
EP45-DS3L: Reboot Loop? | (PeteCresswell) | Gigabyte Motherboards | 1 | November 7th 08 10:22 AM |
when installing XP pro, after first reboot, system corrected (destroy) files on attached SATA drive | [email protected] | Asus Motherboards | 4 | September 2nd 06 04:07 PM |
a7v600-x stuck in reboot loop? | Son Of LaL | Asus Motherboards | 10 | November 29th 05 09:13 PM |
Reboot loop woes... | Ignacio Dinchong | Asus Motherboards | 3 | July 3rd 05 11:54 PM |
How to stop system attempting to boot from external hard drive? | Miss Perspicacia Tick | General | 2 | January 15th 05 03:46 AM |