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What if there are thousands of buffer underrun?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 12th 04, 11:20 AM
Chan WK
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Posts: n/a
Default What if there are thousands of buffer underrun?

If a burner has buffer underrun (BU) protection (Justlink, etc), does
it mean I don't have to worry about BU at all under ALL circumstances?

I have a DVD burner connected to a slow PC (P3-800MHz). I need to
backup more than 35,000 files totalling about 1.7GB to a 2.4X DVD+RW.
The source files are located on an old 8GB 5400rpm HD (everything
about this PC is old apart from the DVD burner).

I can foresee that the PC will have hard time keeping up with the
burner (Nero doesn't allow me to select any speed other than 2.4X).

Question : is there any harm if the BU kicks in many many times?
Theoretically it should work, but does BU cause any reliability issue?
  #3  
Old January 12th 04, 02:28 PM
Graham Mayor
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If DMA is set for the drives, I doubt the buffer protection will activate. A
hard drive - even an old one - should be able to keep up with a writer.

--

Graham Mayor



Chan WK wrote:
If a burner has buffer underrun (BU) protection (Justlink, etc), does
it mean I don't have to worry about BU at all under ALL circumstances?

I have a DVD burner connected to a slow PC (P3-800MHz). I need to
backup more than 35,000 files totalling about 1.7GB to a 2.4X DVD+RW.
The source files are located on an old 8GB 5400rpm HD (everything
about this PC is old apart from the DVD burner).

I can foresee that the PC will have hard time keeping up with the
burner (Nero doesn't allow me to select any speed other than 2.4X).

Question : is there any harm if the BU kicks in many many times?
Theoretically it should work, but does BU cause any reliability issue?



  #4  
Old January 12th 04, 05:49 PM
Dave Cohen
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Posts: n/a
Default

I believe, but stand ready to be corrected, that if buffer underrun
protection does kick in, it will slow down the process. I think all that
happens is burning stops before buffer is empty, then resumes, hence the
slowdown, but resumption may be delayed until the cd spins to the right spot
under the laser.
Dave Cohen
"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
If DMA is set for the drives, I doubt the buffer protection will activate.

A
hard drive - even an old one - should be able to keep up with a writer.

--

Graham Mayor



Chan WK wrote:
If a burner has buffer underrun (BU) protection (Justlink, etc), does
it mean I don't have to worry about BU at all under ALL circumstances?

I have a DVD burner connected to a slow PC (P3-800MHz). I need to
backup more than 35,000 files totalling about 1.7GB to a 2.4X DVD+RW.
The source files are located on an old 8GB 5400rpm HD (everything
about this PC is old apart from the DVD burner).

I can foresee that the PC will have hard time keeping up with the
burner (Nero doesn't allow me to select any speed other than 2.4X).

Question : is there any harm if the BU kicks in many many times?
Theoretically it should work, but does BU cause any reliability issue?





  #5  
Old January 12th 04, 08:51 PM
Mike Richter
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Posts: n/a
Default

Dave Cohen wrote:
I believe, but stand ready to be corrected, that if buffer underrun
protection does kick in, it will slow down the process. I think all that
happens is burning stops before buffer is empty, then resumes, hence the
slowdown, but resumption may be delayed until the cd spins to the right spot
under the laser.
Dave Cohen
"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...

If DMA is set for the drives, I doubt the buffer protection will activate.


A

hard drive - even an old one - should be able to keep up with a writer.

--

Graham Mayor



Chan WK wrote:

If a burner has buffer underrun (BU) protection (Justlink, etc), does
it mean I don't have to worry about BU at all under ALL circumstances?

I have a DVD burner connected to a slow PC (P3-800MHz). I need to
backup more than 35,000 files totalling about 1.7GB to a 2.4X DVD+RW.
The source files are located on an old 8GB 5400rpm HD (everything
about this PC is old apart from the DVD burner).

I can foresee that the PC will have hard time keeping up with the
burner (Nero doesn't allow me to select any speed other than 2.4X).

Question : is there any harm if the BU kicks in many many times?
Theoretically it should work, but does BU cause any reliability issue?


You are correct - protection entails stopping, seeking and restarting.
Once a buffer underrun occurs, it is very likely to recur on each buffer
load.

The OP is burning a large number of (presumably) small files. Please see
the page on Arithmetic 101 in the primer at my WWW site for insight. The
critical speed for such a burn is not the transfer rate of the source
but its seek time, since most of the time is spent going from file to
file. The best bet is to burn from an image (even for HD-to-HD) to
eliminate the seeks.

Finally, there is no significant penalty other than burn speed and wear
on the drives for multiple invocations of buffer underrun protection.

Mike
--

http://www.mrichter.com/

  #6  
Old January 12th 04, 09:36 PM
smh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

.. --------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------
(Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...mindspring.com
(Messages 10, 12 -- 34, 54 -- 69)

( No pipsqueaks have been able to prove ANY of the above is a libel )
( -- despite Mikey's supposed to have proof of misquotes! )


Mike Richter (Friggin' Scum) wrote:

The OP is burning a large number of (presumably) small files.
...The
critical speed for such a burn is not the transfer rate of the source
but its seek time, since most of the time is spent going from file to
file. The best bet is to burn from an image (even for HD-to-HD) to
eliminate the seeks.


No friggin' ****, Mikey!

Have you heard of caching by burn software, Mikey?
  #7  
Old January 12th 04, 10:39 PM
smh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

.. --------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------
(Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...mindspring.com
(Messages 10, 12 -- 34, 54 -- 69)


Mike Richter (Friggin' Scum) wrote:

The OP is burning a large number of (presumably) small files.
...The
critical speed for such a burn is not the transfer rate of the source
but its seek time, since most of the time is spent going from file to
file. The best bet is to burn from an image (even for HD-to-HD) to
eliminate the seeks.


No friggin' ****, Mikey!

Have you heard of "idiotic" caching/buffering of Easy Coaster Creator,
Mikey?

---------------------------------------------
FAQs, Fixes, and Known Issues in Version 4.01

Unnecessary caching at 6x or faster write speeds:

No matter what the system tests show for your system's abilities to keep
up with these write speeds, if you attempt to record at 6x or higher
speed, Easy CD Creator will first create an image on hard disk of the
entire CD layout, then will record from that image to CD - which makes
the recording process twice as long.

This will be fixed in a future version.
---------------------------------------------

======================
From: Mike Richter (Friggin' Scum)
Subject: "Burn Proof" - good or bad?
Date: 3/13/01

I just installed a new Plextor 12/10/32 "burn-proof" CDR with EZCD 5. I see
that the "burn-proof" feature is now an option in EZCD 5 - you can enable or
disable it.


The only other advantage of burn-proof is that selecting the option
.... means that ECDC 5's idiotic buffering is defeated.

======================
From: Mike Richter (Friggin' ****)
Subject: What is EZCD5 doing? It wants 700 meg of temp space!
Date: 3/16/01

I've just gotten ezcd5, and recording is a pain.
It's literally copying all the files to the temp directory
before burning!


Join the crowd - the beta testers had months of screaming before it got
to the real world and that didn't help either.

There's a page on ECDC 5 buffering and a file that may help at my WWW
site. Sorry, that's the best I can offer until Roxio fixes the bug.
======================

-------------------------------
Mikey, you are a Friggin' Scum!
-------------------------------
  #8  
Old January 13th 04, 06:30 AM
Chan WK
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Posts: n/a
Default

With Nero 5.5, what exactly does caching do? Does it merely copy the
source file to the caching drive or does it create an image of the
final burn? What happen if one is continuing a multi-session disc?

In my case, burning to an image first is not an option since I will be
doing incremental update of the files using multi-session. I may
finalize the disc at the end of each month and then archive it to
DVDR.

I tried it last night and the burn/verification was successful. I
suspect the underrun protection was activated many times because
Nero's "buffer level" indicator went from xx% to 0%, then up again,
then down to 0% again. The LED on the burner also went from ON to OFF
to ON to OFF to ON....
  #9  
Old January 13th 04, 06:20 PM
smh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Chan WK wrote:

With Nero 5.5, what exactly does caching do? Does it merely copy the
source file to the caching drive or does it create an image of the
final burn? What happen if one is continuing a multi-session disc?

In my case, burning to an image first is not an option since I will be
doing incremental update of the files using multi-session. I may
finalize the disc at the end of each month and then archive it to
DVDR.

I tried it last night and the burn/verification was successful. I
suspect the underrun protection was activated many times because
Nero's "buffer level" indicator went from xx% to 0%, then up again,
then down to 0% again. The LED on the burner also went from ON to OFF
to ON to OFF to ON....


Cache buffer is used to reduce the time to open/read/close many small
files, not to create an image.

Check the drive's DMA setting, clean up \windows\temp folder, and defrag
the hard disk.

To allay your fears about underrun protection kicking in and
reliability, see this thread:
ram.net
  #10  
Old January 13th 04, 10:31 PM
Anonymous Joe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Chan WK" wrote in message
...
If a burner has buffer underrun (BU) protection (Justlink, etc), does
it mean I don't have to worry about BU at all under ALL circumstances?

I have a DVD burner connected to a slow PC (P3-800MHz). I need to
backup more than 35,000 files totalling about 1.7GB to a 2.4X DVD+RW.
The source files are located on an old 8GB 5400rpm HD (everything
about this PC is old apart from the DVD burner).

I can foresee that the PC will have hard time keeping up with the
burner (Nero doesn't allow me to select any speed other than 2.4X).

Question : is there any harm if the BU kicks in many many times?
Theoretically it should work, but does BU cause any reliability issue?


DVD+RW is only 2.4x. Some newer ones allow 4x, but nothing slower. 2.4x is
like 3240KB/s. Thats about 3 megabytes/sec. A modern ATA/100 (well, thats
not really all that new....but common) will allow 40MB/sec to be read
easily. That 2.4x DVD speed is equal to 9x that in CD speed, so thats 22x
CD-R. If you can burn at 24x CD-RW or higher, then you shouldn't have any
problems doing that 1.7GB burn @ 2.4x.

But, yes, the buffer underrun is designed so that the disc stops writing and
can resume writing once it gets the next bit of data, even if it is isnt
coming in at 2.4x, it will wait for the buffer to fill up.

Ive had this happen when I burn some 52x CDs when doing some intensive other
stuff. The Nero buffer is 80MB, so it burns 80MB at a time, so I end up
with 4 or 5 buffer underrun saves [usually doesnt happen until 300-400MB
into the disc].

Once you burn, use a program like DVDInfoPro to run a read error check on
the disc. If the drive can read back all the sectors then the disc is 100%
okay.


 




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