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idle curiosity - why internal HD rather than external HD



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 29th 18, 08:22 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Yes[_2_]
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Posts: 105
Default idle curiosity - why internal HD rather than external HD

Given some recent problems with my pc, I've started daydreaming about
moving all my HDDs (all are SATA) from inside the pc case to an
external device.

Please keep in mind that I don't have a solid handle on the right words
to use. I've seen at least two types of devices - an enclosed box to
put HDDs into and a box-like device to plug HDDs into (like the old
time VCR cartridge machines). I haven't figured out why one would
choose one over the other. The ones I've seen can accommodate from one
to four drives. I've seen ones that can handle more drives, but I'm
ignoring those - overkill for my needs.

My mobo has an eSata port connector and two USB 3 port connectors on
the back.

Questions that come to my mind a
1. Can you boot up using externally mounted HD? ISTR that the BIOS on
older pcs would not work with USB flash drives (and extrapolating the
logic therefore an external HD).

2. Assuming that the mobo/BIOS would work with an externally mounted
HD in order to boot up, is there any advantage between using a HD
mounted inside the pc case (traditional) or using a HD mounted
externally? The internal HD would use less space (because it's inside
the pc case), and plugged in to a connecton on the mobo itself so less
chance of problems. On the other hand, an external enclosed case would
still have the same heat/ventilation concerns as internal HDDs.

3. is there a reason to use the eSata connector rather than the USB
3.0? connector From what Ive read, it seems like they both offer
similar data transfer speed. I don't know if the new USB 3.1 would
alter the choice of one over the other.

3. Would shifting the HDDs to an external case that has its own power
supply reduce the PSU power requirements very much? For example, I
have a 550 Watt PSU. In a future build, all other things held
constant, would I need a PSU of the same wattage?

Thanks,

John
  #2  
Old August 29th 18, 10:19 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default idle curiosity - why internal HD rather than external HD

Yes wrote:
Given some recent problems with my pc, I've started daydreaming about
moving all my HDDs (all are SATA) from inside the pc case to an
external device.

Please keep in mind that I don't have a solid handle on the right words
to use. I've seen at least two types of devices - an enclosed box to
put HDDs into and a box-like device to plug HDDs into (like the old
time VCR cartridge machines). I haven't figured out why one would
choose one over the other. The ones I've seen can accommodate from one
to four drives. I've seen ones that can handle more drives, but I'm
ignoring those - overkill for my needs.

My mobo has an eSata port connector and two USB 3 port connectors on
the back.

Questions that come to my mind a
1. Can you boot up using externally mounted HD? ISTR that the BIOS on
older pcs would not work with USB flash drives (and extrapolating the
logic therefore an external HD).

2. Assuming that the mobo/BIOS would work with an externally mounted
HD in order to boot up, is there any advantage between using a HD
mounted inside the pc case (traditional) or using a HD mounted
externally? The internal HD would use less space (because it's inside
the pc case), and plugged in to a connecton on the mobo itself so less
chance of problems. On the other hand, an external enclosed case would
still have the same heat/ventilation concerns as internal HDDs.

3. is there a reason to use the eSata connector rather than the USB
3.0? connector From what Ive read, it seems like they both offer
similar data transfer speed. I don't know if the new USB 3.1 would
alter the choice of one over the other.

3. Would shifting the HDDs to an external case that has its own power
supply reduce the PSU power requirements very much? For example, I
have a 550 Watt PSU. In a future build, all other things held
constant, would I need a PSU of the same wattage?

Thanks,

John


If you leave the drives inside the case:

1) Sufficient power.
2) Good cooling.
3) SMART works.
4) TRIM works.

If you work with drives outside the case:

1) Drives can be moved via sneakernet,
to a second computer.
2) Drives can be easily disconnected, after
a backup image is placed on them.

If money was no object, you could connect
storage devices externally via Thunderbolt.
This would likely require a motherboard with
that integrated, for best results. (Maybe you
could boot from it, if that was the case.)

Modern motherboards can boot from USB,
especially if the USB is integrated and
on the Southbridge. The BIOS is more likely
to support booting from such a port.

The fastest USB storage is an M.2 SSD mounted
on an M.2 to USB3.1 Rev2 adapter, which will do 1GB/sec.

The same M.2 module, will do 2-2.4GB/sec when connected
to the proper motherboard connector.

SATA SSDs will do about 500MB/sec, whether in or out of the case.

Hard drives will do 200MB/sec whether in or out of the case.
The best HDD is a 15K enterprise drive, with 300MB/sec SATAIII.

USB3 comes in several classes. A port on a Southbridge is
best, because the DMI isn't a bottleneck for it. Add-on
USB3 chips are usually "lane-starved". Expect, worse case, around
200MB/sec over USB3 "if you are unlucky".

With the drives inside the case, you have fewer wall
adapters cluttering up the power strip.

Paul
  #3  
Old August 29th 18, 11:25 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default idle curiosity - why internal HD rather than external HD

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 19:22:50 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

Given some recent problems with my pc, I've started daydreaming about
moving all my HDDs (all are SATA) from inside the pc case to an
external device.

Please keep in mind that I don't have a solid handle on the right words
to use. I've seen at least two types of devices - an enclosed box to
put HDDs into and a box-like device to plug HDDs into (like the old
time VCR cartridge machines). I haven't figured out why one would
choose one over the other. The ones I've seen can accommodate from one
to four drives. I've seen ones that can handle more drives, but I'm
ignoring those - overkill for my needs.

My mobo has an eSata port connector and two USB 3 port connectors on
the back.

Questions that come to my mind a


If the MB has no provision for a bootable USB device selection,
booting from a HDD docking bay is then negated.

A docking HDD bay for plugging a HDD into, an enclosed HDD sold
variously for an external storage device, are of course different. At
minimum is the USB interface, both share, to access storage.

The Docking Station is superior, although would require some
proficiency to use it correctly;- such devices are also common and
hardly a consideration of cost.

The external storage device occurs under the brandname. It is a
marketing device, within and containing a storage medium, the customer
is not expected to see. It may look like, be named so, for the
marketing allure. Heat, in the case of a mechanical drive, may be a
consideration among many.

All of that need not apply to the plug-in Docking Station, as you are
responsible for selecting a reliable Docking Station, a reliable
HDD(s) to mount into it, as well the interface if in instance of a
eSata port, and cable, you mention. eSata will be significantly faster
transfers than USB2, less so with USB3;- a storage device containing a
SSD will be at a optimal possible among storage devices.

Advantage comes from conversancy, how storage is employed, means
achieved by both internal and external allowances;- with and through
greater conversancy greater applicability is eminent.

The complexity of all possible occupancies must be understood and
reducible, at a technical hands-on level, to institute the best
possible solution for the greatest value on a realistic appraisal, and
solution, for what precisely you expect to achieve.

But, it is not rocket science. You may proceed with further study on
all those "right words", and then some, under the auspices that many
others have similarly done so, thus to get your "handle", without per
se a formal degree in physics, electronics, or mathematics. Logic
among sets and rules logic most often occur may advance you to the
head of the class. Logic, once a strong requisite earlier along with
computers, with different set of tools and underlying processes, but
most same principles wouldn't gone anywhere and still remain for the
building blocks upon advancements since. It's all Greek to me,
indubitably, can only mean that what remains, here and now, was first
borrowed from Semitic Phoenicians.

1. Can you boot up using externally mounted HD? ISTR that the BIOS on
older pcs would not work with USB flash drives (and extrapolating the
logic therefore an external HD).

2. Assuming that the mobo/BIOS would work with an externally mounted
HD in order to boot up, is there any advantage between using a HD
mounted inside the pc case (traditional) or using a HD mounted
externally? The internal HD would use less space (because it's inside
the pc case), and plugged in to a connecton on the mobo itself so less
chance of problems. On the other hand, an external enclosed case would
still have the same heat/ventilation concerns as internal HDDs.

3. is there a reason to use the eSata connector rather than the USB
3.0? connector From what Ive read, it seems like they both offer
similar data transfer speed. I don't know if the new USB 3.1 would
alter the choice of one over the other.

3. Would shifting the HDDs to an external case that has its own power
supply reduce the PSU power requirements very much? For example, I
have a 550 Watt PSU. In a future build, all other things held
constant, would I need a PSU of the same wattage?

Thanks,

John

  #4  
Old August 30th 18, 12:34 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default idle curiosity - why internal HD rather than external HD

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:25:03 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

....The Docking Station is superior

-
I forgot and should mention, I indeed have run into those whom do
recommend the branded and enclosed HDD as perfectly acceptable.
Obviously, the enclosed HDD product brand is simplistic, most of all,
after and upon first taking possession of unformatted media
(formatting it to your particular OS file system being the only
imposition to a packaged service).

Any claims to my superiority are as much a premise upon lack of like
regard for enclosed-brand drive solutions, and most certainly to
qualify without any direct personal experience from working with the
self-enclosed storage product.

And although I then may claim particular superiority for a HDD, being
one I select to mount within my select Docking Stations, it is a claim
largely without objective merit that conversely makes the position one
of a defensible either-or scenario.

HDD quality is paradoxically never an exact science.

A HDD either can be a hand grenade or a horse shoe, e.g. either (1)
the lucky specimen, the residual and "ringer", should you endure a HDD
failure, beyond by provision from the working back-up, or, (2) in the
broader eventuality of catastrophic implications, no doubt, as might
rats be expected to react to a sinking ship, when scurrying into
handheld territory for the nearest cloud subscription service.

And, yes . . . I've experienced both full-fault failures in both
Docking Stations and magnetic-media, hard disc drives.
  #5  
Old August 30th 18, 05:52 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Charlie Hoffpauir
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default idle curiosity - why internal HD rather than external HD

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 19:22:50 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

Given some recent problems with my pc, I've started daydreaming about
moving all my HDDs (all are SATA) from inside the pc case to an
external device.

Please keep in mind that I don't have a solid handle on the right words
to use. I've seen at least two types of devices - an enclosed box to
put HDDs into and a box-like device to plug HDDs into (like the old
time VCR cartridge machines). I haven't figured out why one would
choose one over the other. The ones I've seen can accommodate from one
to four drives. I've seen ones that can handle more drives, but I'm
ignoring those - overkill for my needs.

My mobo has an eSata port connector and two USB 3 port connectors on
the back.

Questions that come to my mind a
1. Can you boot up using externally mounted HD? ISTR that the BIOS on
older pcs would not work with USB flash drives (and extrapolating the
logic therefore an external HD).

2. Assuming that the mobo/BIOS would work with an externally mounted
HD in order to boot up, is there any advantage between using a HD
mounted inside the pc case (traditional) or using a HD mounted
externally? The internal HD would use less space (because it's inside
the pc case), and plugged in to a connecton on the mobo itself so less
chance of problems. On the other hand, an external enclosed case would
still have the same heat/ventilation concerns as internal HDDs.

3. is there a reason to use the eSata connector rather than the USB
3.0? connector From what Ive read, it seems like they both offer
similar data transfer speed. I don't know if the new USB 3.1 would
alter the choice of one over the other.

3. Would shifting the HDDs to an external case that has its own power
supply reduce the PSU power requirements very much? For example, I
have a 550 Watt PSU. In a future build, all other things held
constant, would I need a PSU of the same wattage?

Thanks,

John

Paul has answered most of your concerns.
I'd add that SATA and eSATA are really the same, only the connector(s)
are different. In fact, you can buy a cable that has a connector on
one end that fits your motherboard connector, and on the other end a
connector that fits an external eSATA drive. So performance of SATA
and eSATA will be identical, for identical drives. However,
prepackaged external drives are usually somewhat slower, even if both
are SATA connected. As mentioned already, USB will generally be slower
still.
I personally abhor external drives... but I do have lots of them. I
use bare drives in an IcyDock slot for backup purposes. This
essentially makes them easily removable/replacable internal SATA
connected drives.
I also use external drives (USB connected) with my DVR because the DVR
supports that for additional storage space. They are a PITA to use
this way because I have to remove them from their case to make a clone
copy at a decent speed.... USB connected copying of a 1 TB drive is an
overnight job requiring the use of a computer as well, whereas I can
dupe a bare 1 TB drive in my standalone copying device (Ineo) in about
5 hours.
  #6  
Old August 30th 18, 06:31 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John Doe[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 410
Default idle curiosity - why internal HD rather than external HD

"Yes" wrote:

Given some recent problems with my pc, I've started daydreaming
about moving all my HDDs (all are SATA) from inside the pc case to
an external device.


Given the advent of mass nonvolatile storage (NVMe), there is less
need for internal conventional hard drives. I have a small 1 TB
conventional drive inside the case, it takes little power, but won't
be long until it can be replaced with nonvolatile memory.

For people who archive multimedia, things might be different.
  #7  
Old August 31st 18, 12:53 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default idle curiosity - why internal HD rather than external HD

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:52:04 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir
wrote:

I personally abhor external drives... but I do have lots of them. I
use bare drives in an IcyDock slot for backup purposes. This
essentially makes them easily removable/replacable internal SATA
connected drives.
I also use external drives (USB connected) with my DVR because the DVR
supports that for additional storage space. They are a PITA to use
this way because I have to remove them from their case to make a clone
copy at a decent speed.... USB connected copying of a 1 TB drive is an
overnight job requiring the use of a computer as well, whereas I can
dupe a bare 1 TB drive in my standalone copying device (Ineo) in about
5 hours.


Me, too. Near a dozen mechanical drives, variously, either added-up
from bygone (200G Seagate PATA drives, apparently, supernaturally
engineered, still work), or a part of a extant age of 2T file/UEFI
limits with a healthy enough market, still, at and below.

Docking stations are good "interim devices" - offhand organization
verification and adjustments and minor transpositions.

Brunt and hardcore storage considerations, major file operations --
best to go with the best you have: deduced to SATA for the most. The
more often done, at some point, the docking station is going to seen
and jerked for an added impediment it is.

USB3 may be fine, as well, for the up-&-coming fewer among USB3
docking stations, although I'll hazard they're still a bit cutty-edgy
tech if not in implementation, for acceptance ratings at viable cost
factoring for availability.

I can get away it. I don't personally care, and I'll be the first to
move and stand nose-to-nose between someone drinking a coke-a-cola
over one of my builds. None have case sides remaining, as I prefer
that now for both enlarged cooling and HDDs that need occasionally be
pulled from a backup drive repository and integrated, precariously
balanced and stacked together, for data [re]structuring.

Last, but not least to mention, a palm-sized WallyMart, 115V personal
fan;- juxtaposed, just so, for added cooling over drives potentially
isolated from normal placement (adjacent the front case fan);- during
those long, sometimes 5-hour stints, of course. I've seen drives,
docked or "dangling" from the sides of a computer become, for me,
alarming hot to touch (roundabouts 130F);-- which is just about how
it's going to work with branded external drives, enclosed in plastic
thermal packaging, likely, without any stated specification for
cooking considerations, past a breakthrough profit margin over, if
any, warranty assurances or intent.

Oh, yeah. And I took tinsnips to cut out the standard case tin slots,
inside a HDD cage, the physical slots dividing HDD arrays from
physical contact with one another.

I've got some extra rubber horse-stall matting, or somesuchthing to
cut up for a rainy day, to wedge variously between the drives;- screws
for securing HDDs are becoming, to me, another gratuitous aspect of
case siding or spot-welded, HDD-caged tin slots.
  #8  
Old August 31st 18, 01:04 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default idle curiosity - why internal HD rather than external HD

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:31:20 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

For people who archive multimedia, things might be different.


Praise be, On High, $50 and Joe Dough's 2T 5400RPM Western Digital.

Looked, noticed Samsung's M.2 2T SSD module on sale the other day: for
$1000. Nothing less than Pro everything about it, but of course.
....Or, maybe, I misplaced a multiple and it was actually $2000/US.
  #9  
Old August 31st 18, 05:57 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John Doe[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 410
Default idle curiosity - why internal HD rather than external HD

Few people need a 2 TB hard drive.
Like I said... Mostly only those who archive multimedia.

Another interesting innovation is goggles for display.
Goggles that can replace a huge monitor are in the foreseeable
future.







Flasherly wrote:

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:31:20 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

For people who archive multimedia, things might be different.


Praise be, On High, $50 and Joe Dough's 2T 5400RPM Western Digital.

Looked, noticed Samsung's M.2 2T SSD module on sale the other day: for
$1000. Nothing less than Pro everything about it, but of course.
...Or, maybe, I misplaced a multiple and it was actually $2000/US.


  #10  
Old August 31st 18, 08:14 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default idle curiosity - why internal HD rather than external HD

On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 04:57:41 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Another interesting innovation is goggles for display.
Goggles that can replace a huge monitor are in the foreseeable
future.


Looks to be ready enough for the qualified platform applications.

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Contr...rsion-Warranty
/dp/B074GB37V8/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=15356954 15&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=vr+glasses&psc=1

I'd like a VR display, a reference headset for setting up a
reference-grade LED monitor: A-B'ing to know where to maximize to the
best limits of the digital palette of CYMK realism. I'm constantly
fiddle-farting with color and contrast discrepancies with just about
video stream I play.
 




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