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USB3 PCIe card without extra power plug



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 17th 19, 11:44 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
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Posts: 220
Default USB3 PCIe card without extra power plug

I bought several of these cards, trying to find one that works with older
Centos linux. Most have a PATA Molex plug to import extra power. One has a
floppy disk power plug instead! And one has no extra power.
Now I believe PCIe x1 is good for 10 Watts. The powerless card only has 2
USB sockets, but if both were sucking in 900 mA, you would be cutting it
fine. So would you only use 1 drive on such a card?
Well, anyway the cheaper adapter cards slow down when you plug more than
one device into them. The "superspeed" cards with PCIe x4 would be ideal,
but they are more expensive to buy at random, hoping they will work.....


  #2  
Old June 17th 19, 12:31 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default USB3 PCIe card without extra power plug

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 03:44:21 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I bought several of these cards, trying to find one that works with older
Centos linux. Most have a PATA Molex plug to import extra power. One has a
floppy disk power plug instead! And one has no extra power.
Now I believe PCIe x1 is good for 10 Watts. The powerless card only has 2
USB sockets, but if both were sucking in 900 mA, you would be cutting it
fine. So would you only use 1 drive on such a card?
Well, anyway the cheaper adapter cards slow down when you plug more than
one device into them. The "superspeed" cards with PCIe x4 would be ideal,
but they are more expensive to buy at random, hoping they will work.....


Got those to work, although didn't run into and notice the PWR
condition, at least for what I was looking at;- Mine worked straight
PCI, neither smaller factored or the larger "graphics" -E slot. One
of the boards I got has four USB slots, as I recall. Didn't do or put
any extensive pwr-draw conditions, just basically verified they worked
for higher USB3 speeds on USB3 pendrives.

Set them up for Chinese written XP drivers for running USB3. Seems
maybe W7 picked them up natively;- can't really recall now, other than
it turned out more about testing than being comfortable with either
card.

That was then and now I've bought and installed newer MBs with the
typical 2 USB3 ports on the MB backplane, next to the rest of the
connections;- USB2 port headers being still standard at cheaper fare
for upto 4 USB2 front case extensions.

I've also bought some cheap 120V to USB 2Amp slot converters, although
amperage varies across makes/prices for converters. They run all
kinds of dedicated stuff, in some audio instances if just to isolate
them from a PWR source on PC USB and potential noise interference.

Typical "run with the pack" stuff when it comes to pricing. Run and
make do with acceptable budget grade gear and it's pretty decent. Want
more, then those niche items can be pretty damned pricey for all of
what some may think they are. (Might have paid $10, if that, for
either the PCI USB cards I have.)

If you can't swing it on a nickel and dime from Ebay's direct Chinese
market, then be prepared to pay on how specialized a product it is
you're asking for.

A new 7" tablet I picked up (for an EBook substitute) comes with it's
own 5A recharging circuit. I use the PC [MB's] USB2 ports, as it is
and as you say -- if 900mA, then so be it. A lithium battery actually
likes that, slow charges and minimal heat;- Unlike people, who like it
invariably hot, heavy, and now already.
  #3  
Old June 17th 19, 03:30 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default USB3 PCIe card without extra power plug

wrote:
I bought several of these cards, trying to find one that works with older
Centos linux. Most have a PATA Molex plug to import extra power. One has a
floppy disk power plug instead! And one has no extra power.
Now I believe PCIe x1 is good for 10 Watts. The powerless card only has 2
USB sockets, but if both were sucking in 900 mA, you would be cutting it
fine. So would you only use 1 drive on such a card?
Well, anyway the cheaper adapter cards slow down when you plug more than
one device into them. The "superspeed" cards with PCIe x4 would be ideal,
but they are more expensive to buy at random, hoping they will work.....



The PCI Express slot, only has 3.3V power and 12V power.

There is no 5V on the slot.

This means you'll see an inductor on the PCB, which will
be part of a power converter. It is the characteristics
of that power converter, which determine the amount of
connector power (without the AUX being connected).

Once the AUX connector is connected

Floppy connector (for +5V) 3A ? not sure
Molex connector (for +5V) 6A to 10A ? (a function of wire gauge and conn width)
SATA connector (for +5V) 3A for sure on +5V (1A on 3 pins)

then perhaps they use sensing the cable is in place,
to disable the local power converter running off
slot power.

A card with four USB3 ports, would legally be able
to provide 4*0.9A = 3.6A, so we have to figure out
where the card gets 1.8A (two ports) or 3.6A (four ports).
You would not expect the onboard power converter
to be a monster.

The onboard power converter should not be "working in parallel"
with the AUX connector. While you might be able to make
a "current sharing" design of some sort, you'd need sense
resistors for that, and those would stick out like
a sore thumb (you would not be allowed a lot of
drop in the circuit, no budget for voltage drop
typically in USB).

I don't think the power pins change when the connector size
changes, but Wikipedia claims different power limits for
x1, x4, x16 cards. The following limits would be related
to the number of pins and the current carrying capacity
of each contact on the edge card.

3.3V @ 3A
12.0V @ 5.5A

or roughly 75W. The design looks like it's based on 1A
per pin or so.

If the cards were actually designed to limit 12V to 2.1A,
that gives 25W, or 5V @ 5A from the converter max. Which
would be enough to run four ports at 3.6A total, with some
left over. But you'd expect the magnetics to be bigger if
that was the case. 25W would be a toroid the size
of what was on a Pentium III board, whereas the
magnetics on mine is a lot smaller.

12V @ 2.1A ------- Onboard switcher ---- 5V @ 5A max (to keep
within card profile max)

It wouldn't make sense to use the 3.3V, except if the
USB3 chip needed some core power perhaps. Many modern
chips run on two voltages, a lower voltage for "core",
a higher voltage for "I/O".

If you could find a reference board design for a
USB3 host chip, more of these design details would be
apparent.

Just a guess,
Paul
  #4  
Old June 23rd 19, 01:58 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
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Posts: 220
Default USB3 PCIe card without extra power plug

On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 7:31:51 PM UTC+8, Flasherly wrote:

Got those to work, although didn't run into and notice the PWR
condition, at least for what I was looking at;- Mine worked straight
PCI, neither smaller factored or the larger "graphics" -E slot. One
of the boards I got has four USB slots, as I recall. Didn't do or put
any extensive pwr-draw conditions, just basically verified they worked
for higher USB3 speeds on USB3 pendrives.

Set them up for Chinese written XP drivers for running USB3. Seems
maybe W7 picked them up natively;- can't really recall now, other than
it turned out more about testing than being comfortable with either
card.


One of them has the old VIA VL800 chipset. I thought an older model might
be supported. It wouldn't even work in Windoze 7.
I eventually found it works in opensuse Leap 15, so at least it didn't go
to waste.
  #5  
Old June 23rd 19, 07:35 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default USB3 PCIe card without extra power plug

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 17:58:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

One of them has the old VIA VL800 chipset. I thought an older model might
be supported. It wouldn't even work in Windoze 7.
I eventually found it works in opensuse Leap 15, so at least it didn't go
to waste.


I suppose some things are like that in an aftermarket -- they need
some consideration. SATA controllers is another. Higher stakes
potentially when there's a costly storage drive hooked up, notably if
there be any question of operational questions subsequent.

The differences I'm seeing in plattered drive performances is
significant from distant and older controllers I had been running, not
just MB chipsets but including PCI controllers to augment MBs with
limited and inadequate SATA slots.

These newer MB chipsets, however, though they directly write/copy
fine, all my defragmenters now and I've several run like total crap,
comparatively to 'smooth as silk prior' and on those older controllers
(one or two from the older stuff had their own instances and problem
issues, to be fair, but I eventually updated/repurchased to smooth
things out). The actual drives are the same, nothing bigger than 2T.

One of these days, the 1T class SSD is going to intersect for the
value as a 2T HDD. Possibly approaching $60 for a decent warranty,
TBW count, and DRAM controller caching. Then again, there's no
messing with SSD and older controllers unless asking. I've two
Samsung old units -- a 128 and 64G that run off old controllers;- at
256G class SSD, a couple years after those two Samsungs, things began
to change and just any grab-bag controller won't cut it anymore.

As for USB -- it's plain nuts these days. Wouldn't surprise me in the
least if someone isn't marketing a USB hair-dryer for matching up
those looking for better hair-do computer day. But at least it's
relatively straight-forward and still does what it does without too
total or any such radical redesigns. There's 1 of 2, these USB before
and then there's USB after "W7" [USB3].

I'm up to USB "On The Go" -- or have one such converter coming for
testing if I can't break something between some relatively faster
SanDisk SD memory cards erstwhile among older USB connections options
I have.
 




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