Creative Audigy 2 ZS, a Digital Home Theater, Surround Sound, DISAPPOINTMENT!

Ok,

I have a great home theater and just built a "home theater PC" (HTPC).
I purchased the Creative Audigy 2 ZS for the HTPC, on the hopes that
the card would communicate 5.1 surround sound information to my home
theater, for DVD playback and enriching MP3 playback.

One of the value-adds, in my opinion, of Creative cards is their CMSS
technology that can upconvert stereo-based (i.e. 2-channel) content of
MP3's into 5.1 or 7.1 (6 or 8 channel) content.

However, I cannot connect this card into my home theater in any
meaningful way to enable surround sound. Let me describe the problem,
to serve as a warning for anyone who is in the same situation, and
perhaps someone out there has some information that will help me.

There are TWO ways to connect the Audigy 2 ZS to a speaker system:
Digital and Analog.

DIGITAL

Industry standard for digital (AC3) connections involves a single data
stream that contains "compressed audio information." In other words,
the separate channels (i.e. of 5.1 or 7.1 audio channels – called
"multichannel") are mixed together using Dolby Digital or DTS
specifications of ENCODING, sent over the coax or fiber connection,
and DECODED by a receiver (in most home theater systems).

Cable requirements: A 2-pole (i.e. mono) minijack to RCA-male
connector. The 2-pole minijack connects into the digital SPDIF
connector on the Audigy 2 ZS card (top most port) and a coax
connection on your A/V receiver. You can get this cable at Radio
Shack, although be prepared to have it ordered and wait a week.
Higher quality is better.

Sound Output: Surround sound is ONLY available when playing DVD
games, or DVD movies, or standalone AC3 files on the Audigy 2 ZS; for
everything else, just stereo (i.e. right and left speakers only) is
available. In other words, you only get surround sound when what
you're playing already has multichannel sound encoded in the data
stream. I'm guessing there are plenty of DVD games that do not
possess pre-encoded digital audio, and rely on the software drivers of
an audio card, like the Audigy 2 ZS (although I haven't confirmed
this). You CANNOT take advantage of the CMSS technology or other
audio processing functions of the card for surround sound on a home
theater system utilizing the digital out of the Audigy 2 ZS.

To be fair, this is only for home theater systems, or other systems
that do their own digital decoding. Powered speakers, such as
Creative "digital" speakers, are designed to take the non-standard
cabling of the Audigy 2 ZS card, and use the separate digital streams
to play surround sound content. In other words, the Audigy 2 ZS card
decodes content from DVD's, or simply sends multichannel content
(generated by CMSS) over separate channels using the 4-pole minijack
cable.

PROBLEM: Although the Audigy 2 ZS has a Dolby Digital decoder, it
doesn't possess a Dolby Digital encoder. So, CMSS can turn stereo
content into surround content, and send that content out either analog
(as separate sound channels), or send the content out vis-à-vis their
proprietary 4-pole minijack cables.

Again, to be fair, I haven't found any sound cards that appear to
support this, although I have seen some motherboards supporting this
functionality (see ASUS A7N266-E).

ANALOG

Cable requirements: Line-Out 1 for Front-Right (FR) and Front-Left
(FL) speakers, uses a 3-pole (i.e. common stereo) minijack to 2-male
RCA connectors. Line-Out 2 for Rear-Right (RR), Rear-Left (RL) and
Side-Right (SR) speakers, uses a very non-standard 4-pole minijack to
3-male RCA connectors. Line-Out 3 for Center (C), Subwoofer (SW) and
Side-Left (SL) speakers, uses the same non-standard 4-pole minijack.
The cable for Line-Out 1 is commonly available anywhere. The cable
for Line-Outs 2 and 3 (i.e. the 4-pole minijack) isn't available
anywhere, as far as I can tell – and it's not available from Creative.

Sound Output: This is why a Dolby Digital DECODER (as opposed to an
encoder) is important. DVD games, or DVD movies, or standalone AC3
files, as well as CMSS content (i.e. stereo content that is remixed
for surround sound), outputs to the separate analog channels. This is
what Creative CLAIMS is available for individuals desiring to use the
Audigy 2 ZS audio cards for their home theater systems.

PROBLEM: Creative doesn't provide specifications, references or other
assistance to obtaining the proper 4-pole minijack cables necessary
for use on home theater systems. Creative doesn't appear to sell
these cables. My research on the Internet has shown that there are
lots of people – perhaps thousands – who have mixed results trying a
slew of different options (by trial and error) trying to get surround
content on their home entertainment systems.

Currently, I have tried 2-pole (i.e. mono), 3-pole (i.e. stereo) and
4-pole (from my Sony video camera), all without success on the Audigy
2 ZS for playing surround sound.

Questions:
(1) Do I have this right?
(2) Does anyone have any recommendation on getting surround sound
content, generated by CMSS, to a home theater? What cables do you
use? Where can you buy them?
(3) Better yet, does anyone have a better Sound Card recommendation?
Ideally something that can conduct real-time Dolby Digital (and DTS)
encoding, as well as some form of competition to CMSS (i.e.
upconverting stereo content to surround-sound content)?

Thank you! Larry.

One of the value-adds, in my opinion, of Creative cards is their CMSS
technology that can upconvert stereo-based (i.e. 2-channel) content of
MP3's into 5.1 or 7.1 (6 or 8 channel) content.

It's basically just fake, at best, it's technology similar to Dolby
Pro-Logic (II), using pre-existing phase-shifting to assign certain
frequencies to a particular speaker, but more likely it probably just
duplicates sound, since DPL tech is patented by Dolby Labs. This is because
you can't really create that which is not already there. Unless the source
audio has at least DPL encoding (which supports center channel and mono rear
channel, or better yet, DPL2, which has stereo surround channel support),
there is no way to know which sound is intended to come from what speaker.

Industry standard for digital (AC3) connections

Actually, the connection is called SPDIF (Sony-Philips Digital InterFace, I
believe); AC-3 is just another (older) name for Dolby Digital.

Cable requirements: A 2-pole (i.e. mono) minijack to RCA-male
connector.

Hm, I was pretty sure the Audigy2 ZS uses a coax-to-coax connection, as
there seems to be a RCA jack on the backplate (lowest connector). You sure
it's a minijack? If so, what the hell's the RCA plug for then?

You can get this cable at Radio
Shack, although be prepared to have it ordered and wait a week.

Ahem, one should be able to get this in just about any well-stocked hifi
store. And don't worry about quality too much as long as the cable isn't
excessively long. Digital signals are considerably more robust than analog.

Sound Output: Surround sound is ONLY available when playing DVD
games, or DVD movies, or standalone AC3 files on the Audigy 2 ZS; for
everything else, just stereo (i.e. right and left speakers only) is
available.

That's because the SPDIF connection doesn't have the bandwidth required for
more than two channels of uncompressed audio, and the on-board DSP isn't
designed to compress Dolby Digital or DTS in real-time. So far, only Nvidia
NForce PC chipset and Microsoft XBox can do Dolby Digital real-time. Sony
Playstation 2 is able to do DTS realtime, if the game software is designed
for it. Not that this helps you in any way though!

To get multichannel sound from a realtime source with the Audigy, you need
to use the analog outputs (like with every other add-in PC board, so that's
nothing new).

To be fair, this is only for home theater systems, or other systems
that do their own digital decoding. Powered speakers, such as
Creative "digital" speakers, are designed to take the non-standard
cabling of the Audigy 2 ZS card

Actually, they're standardized in the PC world; even the color coding for
the various outputs are standardized.

You can use a software DVD player like PowerDVD for example to decode
multichannel audio on your system's CPU and output the channels through the
card's analog outputs, you won't need an external decoder as long as your
amplifier/speaker system supports the multiple analog connections the Audigy
provides.

PROBLEM: Although the Audigy 2 ZS has a Dolby Digital decoder

Actually, I don't think it has... That's most likely a CPU-driven function
through the soundcard drivers, just like the de-clicking feature, etc.

PROBLEM: Creative doesn't provide specifications, references or other
assistance to obtaining the proper 4-pole minijack cables necessary
for use on home theater systems.

I believe they expect you to buy their own multichannel speaker systems (or
a compatible speaker system from another vendor, such as Videologic, etc.
Logitech also has a veeeery nice 5.1 system with digital DD/DTS and analog
DPL2 decoders which is suited for Audigy2 use in 5.1 speaker output mode).

(3) Better yet, does anyone have a better Sound Card recommendation?
Ideally something that can conduct real-time Dolby Digital (and DTS)
encoding

Nothing in the PC world or remotely connected, can do DTS encoding. Only
NForce motherboards can do DD encoding, and unless you have an AMD Athlon
system, you're screwed there or else have to buy new CPU too in addition to
new mobo.

The cables are the same as one that is sold as a Sony Camcorder cable,
though the same cable is also used for several other brands of camcorders
and portable DVD players. The cable is available from Sony and a number of
online sites, and there is premium version that is available from Monster.

--
Harvey Fong
Technical Marketing Specialist
Audio - Speakers - Portable Digital Entertainment
Creative Labs Inc. - USA
http://us.creative.com

Larry wrote:

Ok,

I have a great home theater and just built a "home theater PC" (HTPC).
I purchased the Creative Audigy 2 ZS for the HTPC, on the hopes that
the card would communicate 5.1 surround sound information to my home
theater, for DVD playback and enriching MP3 playback.

One of the value-adds, in my opinion, of Creative cards is their CMSS
technology that can upconvert stereo-based (i.e. 2-channel) content of
MP3's into 5.1 or 7.1 (6 or 8 channel) content.

However, I cannot connect this card into my home theater in any
meaningful way to enable surround sound. Let me describe the problem,
to serve as a warning for anyone who is in the same situation, and
perhaps someone out there has some information that will help me.

There are TWO ways to connect the Audigy 2 ZS to a speaker system:
Digital and Analog.

DIGITAL

Industry standard for digital (AC3) connections involves a single data
stream that contains "compressed audio information." In other words,
the separate channels (i.e. of 5.1 or 7.1 audio channels – called
"multichannel") are mixed together using Dolby Digital or DTS
specifications of ENCODING, sent over the coax or fiber connection,
and DECODED by a receiver (in most home theater systems).

Cable requirements: A 2-pole (i.e. mono) minijack to RCA-male
connector. The 2-pole minijack connects into the digital SPDIF
connector on the Audigy 2 ZS card (top most port) and a coax
connection on your A/V receiver. You can get this cable at Radio
Shack, although be prepared to have it ordered and wait a week.
Higher quality is better.

Sound Output: Surround sound is ONLY available when playing DVD
games, or DVD movies, or standalone AC3 files on the Audigy 2 ZS; for
everything else, just stereo (i.e. right and left speakers only) is
available. In other words, you only get surround sound when what
you're playing already has multichannel sound encoded in the data
stream. I'm guessing there are plenty of DVD games that do not
possess pre-encoded digital audio, and rely on the software drivers of
an audio card, like the Audigy 2 ZS (although I haven't confirmed
this). You CANNOT take advantage of the CMSS technology or other
audio processing functions of the card for surround sound on a home
theater system utilizing the digital out of the Audigy 2 ZS.

To be fair, this is only for home theater systems, or other systems
that do their own digital decoding. Powered speakers, such as
Creative "digital" speakers, are designed to take the non-standard
cabling of the Audigy 2 ZS card, and use the separate digital streams
to play surround sound content. In other words, the Audigy 2 ZS card
decodes content from DVD's, or simply sends multichannel content
(generated by CMSS) over separate channels using the 4-pole minijack
cable.

PROBLEM: Although the Audigy 2 ZS has a Dolby Digital decoder, it
doesn't possess a Dolby Digital encoder. So, CMSS can turn stereo
content into surround content, and send that content out either analog
(as separate sound channels), or send the content out vis-à-vis their
proprietary 4-pole minijack cables.

Again, to be fair, I haven't found any sound cards that appear to
support this, although I have seen some motherboards supporting this
functionality (see ASUS A7N266-E).

ANALOG

Cable requirements: Line-Out 1 for Front-Right (FR) and Front-Left
(FL) speakers, uses a 3-pole (i.e. common stereo) minijack to 2-male
RCA connectors. Line-Out 2 for Rear-Right (RR), Rear-Left (RL) and
Side-Right (SR) speakers, uses a very non-standard 4-pole minijack to
3-male RCA connectors. Line-Out 3 for Center (C), Subwoofer (SW) and
Side-Left (SL) speakers, uses the same non-standard 4-pole minijack.
The cable for Line-Out 1 is commonly available anywhere. The cable
for Line-Outs 2 and 3 (i.e. the 4-pole minijack) isn't available
anywhere, as far as I can tell – and it's not available from Creative.

Sound Output: This is why a Dolby Digital DECODER (as opposed to an
encoder) is important. DVD games, or DVD movies, or standalone AC3
files, as well as CMSS content (i.e. stereo content that is remixed
for surround sound), outputs to the separate analog channels. This is
what Creative CLAIMS is available for individuals desiring to use the
Audigy 2 ZS audio cards for their home theater systems.

PROBLEM: Creative doesn't provide specifications, references or other
assistance to obtaining the proper 4-pole minijack cables necessary
for use on home theater systems. Creative doesn't appear to sell
these cables. My research on the Internet has shown that there are
lots of people – perhaps thousands – who have mixed results trying a
slew of different options (by trial and error) trying to get surround
content on their home entertainment systems.

Currently, I have tried 2-pole (i.e. mono), 3-pole (i.e. stereo) and
4-pole (from my Sony video camera), all without success on the Audigy
2 ZS for playing surround sound.

Questions:
(1) Do I have this right?
(2) Does anyone have any recommendation on getting surround sound
content, generated by CMSS, to a home theater? What cables do you
use? Where can you buy them?
(3) Better yet, does anyone have a better Sound Card recommendation?
Ideally something that can conduct real-time Dolby Digital (and DTS)
encoding, as well as some form of competition to CMSS (i.e.
upconverting stereo content to surround-sound content)?

Thank you! Larry.

Cable requirements: A 2-pole (i.e. mono) minijack to RCA-male
connector.

Hm, I was pretty sure the Audigy2 ZS uses a coax-to-coax connection, as
there seems to be a RCA jack on the backplate (lowest connector). You sure
it's a minijack? If so, what the hell's the RCA plug for then?

How sure is "pretty sure"? I just bought an Audigy2 ZS and I am
looking at it right now. There are no RCA connectors on this thing.

You can get this cable at Radio
Shack, although be prepared to have it ordered and wait a week.

Ahem, one should be able to get this in just about any well-stocked hifi
store. And don't worry about quality too much as long as the cable isn't
excessively long. Digital signals are considerably more robust than analog.

You don't need a special cable for this. Radio Shack sells an adapter
for $3.99 that has a male mono 1/8" minijack on one side and a female
RCA connector on the other. My local Radio Shack had it in stock.
The part number is 274-897. Here is a picture of it:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...5Fid=274%2D897

How sure is "pretty sure"?

Well, I looked at pics of it online, and there was what looked like a
larger-diameter plug down towards the bottom of the card. As it turned out,
it was just a regular 3.5mm headphone jack like the others, but with a
larger hole stamped out of the backplate for some bizarre reason. Most sites
I saw that tested the card used Creative's own images, and it was difficult
to make out from the pics they have, so it was a mistake on my part. They
COULD have fitted a proper phono connector there instead though, no problem
whatsoever. Bit silly they didn't, but not that it really matters much in
the end I guess.

I just bought an Audigy2 ZS and I am
looking at it right now. There are no RCA connectors on this thing.

Heh, I know. I bought one too tuesday this week, along with a Logitech MX900
Bluetooth mouse. (Which is pretty darn nifty btw.)

Have to say it works great. Sound feels richer overall compared to the ol'
Live, and having full 5.1 sound is of course very nice. I get digital sound
using the digital coax cable Sony helpfully supplied me with when I bought a
HT-BE1 surround system in february last year for use with my PS2 console (to
watch DVD movies with DTS sound and such), a small conversion plug like you
mentioned (not from Radio Shack though), and I could hook it up to my
Logitech speaker system instead. I'm very satisfied, the Z-680 speakers
sound totally awesome with this soundcard, it's completely mindboggling.
I played a bit of Half-Life, and a CD case came tumbling down from on top of
a stack because of the vibrations from the subwoofer! Amazing.

Also, you should check out www.personalcopy.com/ for some super nice
Audigy-compatible soundfonts, in case you ever listen to MIDI tunes or play
keyboard yourself. There are soundfonts there weighing in at 50+ MB, some
really slick work. All for free too, btw.

In addition to Harvey's information, this link shows the ring assignment of
the analog ouputs:

http://dmzweb4.europe.creative.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE/,/?St=50,E=0000000000024426572,K=2014,Sxi=12,Case=ob j(4361),VARSET=centric:,Kb=creative_cli_us

wwc

"Harvey Fong [Creative Labs]" wrote in message
...
The cables are the same as one that is sold as a Sony Camcorder cable,
though the same cable is also used for several other brands of camcorders
and portable DVD players. The cable is available from Sony and a number
of
online sites, and there is premium version that is available from Monster.

--
Harvey Fong
Technical Marketing Specialist
Audio - Speakers - Portable Digital Entertainment
Creative Labs Inc. - USA
http://us.creative.com

Larry wrote:

Ok,

I have a great home theater and just built a "home theater PC" (HTPC).
I purchased the Creative Audigy 2 ZS for the HTPC, on the hopes that
the card would communicate 5.1 surround sound information to my home
theater, for DVD playback and enriching MP3 playback.

One of the value-adds, in my opinion, of Creative cards is their CMSS
technology that can upconvert stereo-based (i.e. 2-channel) content of
MP3's into 5.1 or 7.1 (6 or 8 channel) content.

However, I cannot connect this card into my home theater in any
meaningful way to enable surround sound. Let me describe the problem,
to serve as a warning for anyone who is in the same situation, and
perhaps someone out there has some information that will help me.

There are TWO ways to connect the Audigy 2 ZS to a speaker system:
Digital and Analog.

DIGITAL

Industry standard for digital (AC3) connections involves a single data
stream that contains "compressed audio information." In other words,
the separate channels (i.e. of 5.1 or 7.1 audio channels - called
"multichannel") are mixed together using Dolby Digital or DTS
specifications of ENCODING, sent over the coax or fiber connection,
and DECODED by a receiver (in most home theater systems).

Cable requirements: A 2-pole (i.e. mono) minijack to RCA-male
connector. The 2-pole minijack connects into the digital SPDIF
connector on the Audigy 2 ZS card (top most port) and a coax
connection on your A/V receiver. You can get this cable at Radio
Shack, although be prepared to have it ordered and wait a week.
Higher quality is better.

Sound Output: Surround sound is ONLY available when playing DVD
games, or DVD movies, or standalone AC3 files on the Audigy 2 ZS; for
everything else, just stereo (i.e. right and left speakers only) is
available. In other words, you only get surround sound when what
you're playing already has multichannel sound encoded in the data
stream. I'm guessing there are plenty of DVD games that do not
possess pre-encoded digital audio, and rely on the software drivers of
an audio card, like the Audigy 2 ZS (although I haven't confirmed
this). You CANNOT take advantage of the CMSS technology or other
audio processing functions of the card for surround sound on a home
theater system utilizing the digital out of the Audigy 2 ZS.

To be fair, this is only for home theater systems, or other systems
that do their own digital decoding. Powered speakers, such as
Creative "digital" speakers, are designed to take the non-standard
cabling of the Audigy 2 ZS card, and use the separate digital streams
to play surround sound content. In other words, the Audigy 2 ZS card
decodes content from DVD's, or simply sends multichannel content
(generated by CMSS) over separate channels using the 4-pole minijack
cable.

PROBLEM: Although the Audigy 2 ZS has a Dolby Digital decoder, it
doesn't possess a Dolby Digital encoder. So, CMSS can turn stereo
content into surround content, and send that content out either analog
(as separate sound channels), or send the content out vis-à-vis their
proprietary 4-pole minijack cables.

Again, to be fair, I haven't found any sound cards that appear to
support this, although I have seen some motherboards supporting this
functionality (see ASUS A7N266-E).

ANALOG

Cable requirements: Line-Out 1 for Front-Right (FR) and Front-Left
(FL) speakers, uses a 3-pole (i.e. common stereo) minijack to 2-male
RCA connectors. Line-Out 2 for Rear-Right (RR), Rear-Left (RL) and
Side-Right (SR) speakers, uses a very non-standard 4-pole minijack to
3-male RCA connectors. Line-Out 3 for Center (C), Subwoofer (SW) and
Side-Left (SL) speakers, uses the same non-standard 4-pole minijack.
The cable for Line-Out 1 is commonly available anywhere. The cable
for Line-Outs 2 and 3 (i.e. the 4-pole minijack) isn't available
anywhere, as far as I can tell - and it's not available from Creative.

Sound Output: This is why a Dolby Digital DECODER (as opposed to an
encoder) is important. DVD games, or DVD movies, or standalone AC3
files, as well as CMSS content (i.e. stereo content that is remixed
for surround sound), outputs to the separate analog channels. This is
what Creative CLAIMS is available for individuals desiring to use the
Audigy 2 ZS audio cards for their home theater systems.

PROBLEM: Creative doesn't provide specifications, references or other
assistance to obtaining the proper 4-pole minijack cables necessary
for use on home theater systems. Creative doesn't appear to sell
these cables. My research on the Internet has shown that there are
lots of people - perhaps thousands - who have mixed results trying a
slew of different options (by trial and error) trying to get surround
content on their home entertainment systems.

Currently, I have tried 2-pole (i.e. mono), 3-pole (i.e. stereo) and
4-pole (from my Sony video camera), all without success on the Audigy
2 ZS for playing surround sound.

Questions:
(1) Do I have this right?
(2) Does anyone have any recommendation on getting surround sound
content, generated by CMSS, to a home theater? What cables do you
use? Where can you buy them?
(3) Better yet, does anyone have a better Sound Card recommendation?
Ideally something that can conduct real-time Dolby Digital (and DTS)
encoding, as well as some form of competition to CMSS (i.e.
upconverting stereo content to surround-sound content)?

Thank you! Larry.