Questions about DDR RAM

"Igor" wrote in message newsp.tzl7q8aokkm7ou@a...
On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 04:44:03 -0400, kony wrote:

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:54:49 -0400, Igor
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:50:59 -0400, Paul wrote:

snip


If you tell us the motherboard make and model, we give better advice.

I don't see how that information is relevant to my two primary
questions,
or even why it would be necessary to venture an answer to the third.
They're pretty general questions. Are you one of those guys who likes to
make everything more complicated than it needs to be?


Paul does a good job of answering questions and posing
details of variables that may matter. Sometimes the rest of
us just make assumptions instead of putting forth as much
effort. His point was good, that providing details of your
hardware is a good idea, it allows a reply more applicable
to specific hardware.

I didn't mean to jump on Paul, I'm sure he's a friendly and knowledgeable
guy, but why did he assume that I had wanted that level of detail in a
response?

If I had wanted a specific, tailor-made reply, I would've provided the
details of my hardware. In this case, I just wanted a simple reply, so I
didn't feel the need to provide such details.

I found the insinuation that I *should have* provided the make and model
of my motherboard, that not doing so was an oversight on my part, and that
my questions couldn't be properly answered as I had posed them, just a bit
patronizing.

Igor, I'm sure you misinterpreted Paul's response. I've *never* seen
him flame anyone. Also, he may know of, say, some mobos that would accept
the different sticks and merely run both at the rate of the slower stick;
and at the same time know of other mobos which would balk from the get-go.
I've seen some ram spec'd as "known to work on the following ": see the
long list, somewhat fine print he


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&ih=017


I'm sure you will find your answers here on this ng. Sorry I could
offer no more than the "run at the rate of the slower", which I can only say
I've seen in several personal instances; I'd hesitate to extrapolate them to
be generally-expected results.
Thx and good luck and please remember to reply to posted questions any
info you feel helpful. s

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 06:15:17 -0400, kony wrote:

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 05:38:58 -0400, Igor
wrote:

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 04:44:03 -0400, kony wrote:

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:54:49 -0400, Igor
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:50:59 -0400, Paul wrote:

snip


If you tell us the motherboard make and model, we give better advice.

I don't see how that information is relevant to my two primary
questions,
or even why it would be necessary to venture an answer to the third.
They're pretty general questions. Are you one of those guys who likes
to
make everything more complicated than it needs to be?


Paul does a good job of answering questions and posing
details of variables that may matter. Sometimes the rest of
us just make assumptions instead of putting forth as much
effort. His point was good, that providing details of your
hardware is a good idea, it allows a reply more applicable
to specific hardware.

I didn't mean to jump on Paul, I'm sure he's a friendly and
knowledgeable
guy, but why did he assume that I had wanted that level of detail in a
response?


Because it depends on the motherboard and chipset you are
considering for this upgrade.


It does, eh? Funny how you didn't seem to have any trouble answering the
questions until now.


If I had wanted a specific, tailor-made reply, I would've provided the
details of my hardware. In this case, I just wanted a simple reply, so I
didn't feel the need to provide such details.

.. but there is no simple reply, if there were there
wouldn't have been any further inquiry to what specific
system hardware/chipset it is.


This is circular logic.

And as I've pointed out, you didn't have any trouble answering the
questions until now.



I found the insinuation that I *should have* provided the make and model
of my motherboard, that not doing so was an oversight on my part, and
that
my questions couldn't be properly answered as I had posed them, just a
bit
patronizing.

If you can't bother to provide details of the system upon
which you try to upgrade the memory, you won't get the
correct answer because it depends upon the variables we
asked about (or else, we wouldn't have bothered to mention
it at all).

Bull****. I got plenty of clear and useful replies to my questions,
including yours. The issues I raised are not nearly as complicated as you
now make them out to be. You're not discussing technical issues here
anymore, you're trying to turn this into a ****ing contest.

Bottom line: I phrase my questions however I want to phrase them, I
provide whatever information I feel like providing, and if you don't like
it, you can move to the next thread.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 06:44:00 -0400, sdlomi2
wrote:


Igor, I'm sure you misinterpreted Paul's response. I've *never* seen
him flame anyone. Also, he may know of, say, some mobos that would
accept
the different sticks and merely run both at the rate of the slower stick;
and at the same time know of other mobos which would balk from the
get-go.
I've seen some ram spec'd as "known to work on the following ": see the
long list, somewhat fine print he


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&ih=017


I'm sure you will find your answers here on this ng. Sorry I could
offer no more than the "run at the rate of the slower", which I can only
say
I've seen in several personal instances; I'd hesitate to extrapolate
them to
be generally-expected results.
Thx and good luck and please remember to reply to posted questions
any
info you feel helpful. s



I feel no ill-will towards Paul, and I understand where he was coming
from, though I still feel that the questions being asked were general
enough that they could be answered without needing additional information.

Igor wrote:

CBFalconer wrote:
But, if the MB can handle it, ensure you get ECC capable memory.

My motherboard's manual doesn't say anything about supporting ECC, so I'll
assume that it doesn't.

However, I plan on putting together a PC from scratch in the near future,
so perhaps ECC support is something I should be looking for in a
motherboard.

In a nutshell, why is ECC capable memory more desirable?

Most people don't care, and most mobo's won't support it.

Igor wrote:

I'm planning to add some memory to a PC. The motherboard supports "DDR up
to 333 MHz (enhanced) memory bus."

333 Mhz is the maximum speed of the memory bus, not the maximum speed of the memory that will work.

333 MHz (PC2700) or slower DDR SDRAM isn't easy to find on today's market,
and when you do find it, it's considerably more expensive than the DDR
which runs at 400 MHz (PC3200). What would happen if I bought 400 MHz DDR
RAM and installed it in a motherboard which only supports speeds up to 333
MHz (PC2700)? Would it work? If it did work, would it work as well as the
slower PC2700 RAM?

You can always use memory rated for a higher speed than the memory bus if it is the correct type, e.g. don't try to use DDR2 in place of DDR memory.

I've gotten conflicting answers to this question. Two computer stores told
me that it wouldn't work. Another store and a book I consulted said it
would.

Never ask a salesman a technical question.

I'd also like some opinions on which brand of RAM I should get. Kingston
and Samsung are ubiquitous where I live, so the choice comes down to one
of those. Both brands are about the same price, with the Samsung being
marginally cheaper.

I have had good results with Kingston, never used Samsung.

Finally, would a 128 MB stick of 266 MHz DDR RAM be able to run in the
same computer as, say, a 512 MB stick of 400 MHz DDR RAM? If so, would
using both at the same time degrade the performance of the faster RAM?

Both DIMMs would run at 266 Mhz.

Igor wrote:

Bottom line: I phrase my questions however I want to phrase them, I
provide whatever information I feel like providing, and if you don't
like it, you can move to the next thread.

With an attitude like that I've a feeling you'll be getting a lot less
answers to your questions in the future!

On 3 Oct, 08:55, Igor wrote:
However, I plan on putting together a PC from scratch in the near future,
so perhaps ECC support is something I should be looking for in a
motherboard.

In a nutshell, why is ECC capable memory more desirable?

It has additional bits used to store checksum information so that
errors can be detected and simple ones corrected. In short, it's a
reliability thing. Without knowing much about your set up, it's
impossible to be sure but at three or four times the cost of normal
RAM I doubt it will be a cost-effective way of improving
reliability. If you want to do that on most systems, you're better
off spending the money on things like fitting a UPS and RAID storage -
these cover much less reliable elements of the system.

Memory is fairly reliable provided you aren't recklessly overclocking
things so I'd consider ECC inappropriate on all but the most mission-
critical systems. Unless you are talking about a machine already
fitted out with a UPS, hot-swappable RAID, redundant power supplies
and preferably an secure, climate controlled machine room to put it
all in there are more important risk factors to consider.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:30:41 -0400, Andrew
wrote:

On 3 Oct, 08:55, Igor wrote:
However, I plan on putting together a PC from scratch in the near
future,
so perhaps ECC support is something I should be looking for in a
motherboard.

In a nutshell, why is ECC capable memory more desirable?

It has additional bits used to store checksum information so that
errors can be detected and simple ones corrected. In short, it's a
reliability thing. Without knowing much about your set up, it's
impossible to be sure but at three or four times the cost of normal
RAM I doubt it will be a cost-effective way of improving
reliability. If you want to do that on most systems, you're better
off spending the money on things like fitting a UPS and RAID storage -
these cover much less reliable elements of the system.

Memory is fairly reliable provided you aren't recklessly overclocking
things so I'd consider ECC inappropriate on all but the most mission-
critical systems. snip

I don't plan on overclocking (recklessly or otherwise), so I'd say you're
right. I've been using a computer I had custom built a few years ago as a
DAW (digital audio workstation). All it has is a stick of cheap, non-ECC
RAM, and I've never had any problems.

If I had unlimited funds and I was trying to build the ultimate computer,
I'd spring for ECC, but in the real world, budgets matter, and I've been
getting fine without it so far.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:44:59 -0400, class_a wrote:

Igor wrote:

Bottom line: I phrase my questions however I want to phrase them, I
provide whatever information I feel like providing, and if you don't
like it, you can move to the next thread.

With an attitude like that I've a feeling you'll be getting a lot less
answers to your questions in the future!

Out of the dozen or so people who posted useful responses to my questions,
only two seemed to have a problem with how I asked them. Out of those two,
only one tried to make a federal case out of it. And you're the only
person who's felt a need to offer me a civics lesson.

I'm not losing any sleep over the prospect of a couple of sanctimonious
control freaks with delusions of grandeur putting me in their killfiles.
In fact, they'd be doing me a favor if they did; the fewer such people
that I need to deal with, the happier I'll be!

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 06:08:46 -0400, Igor
wrote:


I've been had by the brokerage scam as well. The only way around paying
brokerage fees that I've found is by insisting that the order be shipped
through USPS rather than by courier. However, it seems USPS have raised
their fees recently, so that option may no longer be worthwhile. I suppose
a computer case is too big to ship through USPS anyways.


I thought that Newegg started shipping to Canada a couple
years ago. At that time it was mentioned they'd use UPS and
that they might be able to leverage a reduction in brokerage
fees from UPS. You might pick a product at Newegg, put it
in your cart and enter shipping address during checkout to
see what they charge (IIRC, the brokerage fee is included in
the listed shipping cost once they have the Canadian
shipping address) before completing the order.