Questions about DDR RAM

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:48:44 -0400, larry moe 'n curly
wrote:


Igor wrote:

I'm planning to add some memory to a PC. The motherboard supports "DDR
up
to 333 MHz (enhanced) memory bus."

333 MHz (PC2700) or slower DDR SDRAM isn't easy to find on today's
market,
and when you do find it, it's considerably more expensive than the DDR
which runs at 400 MHz (PC3200). What would happen if I bought 400 MHz
DDR
RAM and installed it in a motherboard which only supports speeds up to
333
MHz (PC2700)? Would it work? If it did work, would it work as well as
the
slower PC2700 RAM?

The only time a good PC3200 module didn't work with one of my slower
mobos was when I set the mobo's BIOS to use the "safe" default
timings. That caused an ECS K7S5A Pro (max memory speed: 266 MHz) to
not boot and show only a completely blank screen.


That's good to know, as the motherboard I'm dealing with is also an ECS.

I'd also like some opinions on which brand of RAM I should get. Kingston
and Samsung are ubiquitous where I live, so the choice comes down to one
of those. Both brands are about the same price, with the Samsung being
marginally cheaper.

I'd get Samsung because Samsung is a real RAM chip manufacturer while
Kingston just buys chips or silicon wafers from other companies and
doesn't seem to test them very thoroughly. About 20-30% of the
Kingstons I've tried were troublesome, with a whopping 8 out of 11-12
PC3200 512MB Kingston ValueRAMs failing. OTOH all 5 PC3200 512MB PNY
modules worked fine, even when overclocked (I don't normally
overclock). I strongly recommend testing each module overnight with
both MemTest86 AND Gold Memory.


Thanks for your opinion, and even better, for backing it up with something
more than "I'm using brand X because that's what everyone says is the
best."

I'm not familiar with the programs you mention but I will do a search for
them.

I'll follow your recommendation, and make sure I can return the memory if
it fails.

Finally, would a 128 MB stick of 266 MHz DDR RAM be able to run in the
same computer as, say, a 512 MB stick of 400 MHz DDR RAM?

I was able to run a 256MB PC2100 and 512MB PC3200 together in a mobo
that supported 400 MHz. I don't know what happened to the timings of
the faster RAM.


I guess I'll just have to try it and see

Somewhere on the interweb " typed:
On Oct 2, 10:31 pm, Igor wrote:

snip a lot of angry, little-man-syndrome words

If so, would
using both at the same time degrade the performance of the faster
RAM?


I vaguely recall that they'd run at the slower speed. .

Your vague recollections are of little use to someone asking for facts.

(Note: I'm using a bogus reply-to address to avoid spam, so please
don't reply by email.)

You know about spam, so learn how to search usenet. Your behaviour
doesn't seem logical. What kind of justification do you have?!

And yours seems agressive and antagonistic. What's your justification? On
second thoughts, just go away.
--
TTFN

Shaun.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:54:49 -0400, Igor
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:50:59 -0400, Paul wrote:

snip


If you tell us the motherboard make and model, we give better advice.

I don't see how that information is relevant to my two primary questions,
or even why it would be necessary to venture an answer to the third.
They're pretty general questions. Are you one of those guys who likes to
make everything more complicated than it needs to be?


Paul does a good job of answering questions and posing
details of variables that may matter. Sometimes the rest of
us just make assumptions instead of putting forth as much
effort. His point was good, that providing details of your
hardware is a good idea, it allows a reply more applicable
to specific hardware.

Somewhere on the interweb "Igor" typed:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:32:30 -0400, CBFalconer
wrote:

snip

But, if the MB can handle it, ensure you get ECC capable memory.


My motherboard's manual doesn't say anything about supporting ECC, so
I'll assume that it doesn't.

However, I plan on putting together a PC from scratch in the near
future, so perhaps ECC support is something I should be looking for
in a motherboard.

In a nutshell, why is ECC capable memory more desirable?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECC_mem...recting_memory

Not the best description but it will suffice.

In a nutshell, to quote from the Wiki page:

"ECC memory provides greater data accuracy and system uptime by protecting
against soft errors in computer memory."

However, it comes at a price. It depends on what you're using your PC for
really. I have two PCs with ECC RAM and the rest without. IMO for
non-mission-critical machines its' not really needed.
--
TTFN

Shaun.

Igor wrote:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:38:51 -0400, kony wrote:

snip



I'd also like some opinions on which brand of RAM I should get. Kingston
and Samsung are ubiquitous where I live, so the choice comes down to one
of those. Both brands are about the same price, with the Samsung being
marginally cheaper.

Which country do you reside in? Often buying online is
cheaper unless there's a particularly good sale or rebate
ongoing. Kingston's valueram tends to be lower spec, many
other name brand modules are better or cheaper for the same
specifications.



I live in Canada. Which Internet-based retailers would you recommend?

The more popular mailorder places in the U.S. won't ship to Canada, most
likely due to import/export restrictions.

I don't like eBay for a variety of reasons and will not do business
through them.

I looked at the prices at tigerdirect.ca and didn't find them to be
appreciably better than the computer stores in my neighbourhood (a $3 or
$4 difference, not counting shipping). Frankly, for such small potential
savings, I prefer the convenience of buying locally.

After some good local retailers went bankrupt, I switched to NCIX in B.C.
Otherwise, there aren't a lot of Canadian options. The last time I ordered
from them, they used DHL for shipping, and they're OK.

Note that Canadians always charge a premium, so if you want deals, head
to the U.S. Yes, it is frustrating finding someone who ships to Canada,
which is why I went with NCIX.

You could also check Zipzoomfly.com in the U.S. and check if they still
ship to Canada. I never did complete a purchase with them, because I
wanted something the size of a computer case, and when we got into
details about shipping, their shipping method ended up being twice
as expensive as it should have been.

Due to the brokerage scams the shippers use in crossing the border,
you may find a deal in the States, isn't quite the deal you expected.
But because you cannot pick the shipper when you deal in the States,
sometimes you just have to take the brokerage scam like a man.
(This is one reason I cannot do business with anyone who uses UPS.)
A cost of doing business, as it were. If the order is big enough, you
might still come out ahead.

If you look at processor pricing, there can be a world of difference
between Canadian prices and U.S., in which case you won't dwell on the
NCIX page for very long.

Paul

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 04:44:03 -0400, kony wrote:

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:54:49 -0400, Igor
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:50:59 -0400, Paul wrote:

snip


If you tell us the motherboard make and model, we give better advice.

I don't see how that information is relevant to my two primary
questions,
or even why it would be necessary to venture an answer to the third.
They're pretty general questions. Are you one of those guys who likes to
make everything more complicated than it needs to be?


Paul does a good job of answering questions and posing
details of variables that may matter. Sometimes the rest of
us just make assumptions instead of putting forth as much
effort. His point was good, that providing details of your
hardware is a good idea, it allows a reply more applicable
to specific hardware.

I didn't mean to jump on Paul, I'm sure he's a friendly and knowledgeable
guy, but why did he assume that I had wanted that level of detail in a
response?

If I had wanted a specific, tailor-made reply, I would've provided the
details of my hardware. In this case, I just wanted a simple reply, so I
didn't feel the need to provide such details.

I found the insinuation that I *should have* provided the make and model
of my motherboard, that not doing so was an oversight on my part, and that
my questions couldn't be properly answered as I had posed them, just a bit
patronizing.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 05:38:58 -0400, Igor
wrote:



I found the insinuation that I *should have* provided the make and model
of my motherboard, that not doing so was an oversight on my part, and that
my questions couldn't be properly answered as I had posed them, just a bit
patronizing.


maybe, but on the other hand if you can't make the effort to
do that, why should others make the effort to guess about
what is likely, instead of knowing more certainly if you
have hardware upon which the details might be more likely,
and/or known problems?

More details are always less

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 05:12:09 -0400, Paul wrote:


After some good local retailers went bankrupt, I switched to NCIX in B.C.
Otherwise, there aren't a lot of Canadian options. The last time I
ordered
from them, they used DHL for shipping, and they're OK.

Note that Canadians always charge a premium, so if you want deals, head
to the U.S. Yes, it is frustrating finding someone who ships to Canada,
which is why I went with NCIX.

You could also check Zipzoomfly.com in the U.S. and check if they still
ship to Canada. I never did complete a purchase with them, because I
wanted something the size of a computer case, and when we got into
details about shipping, their shipping method ended up being twice
as expensive as it should have been.

Due to the brokerage scams the shippers use in crossing the border,
you may find a deal in the States, isn't quite the deal you expected.
But because you cannot pick the shipper when you deal in the States,
sometimes you just have to take the brokerage scam like a man.
(This is one reason I cannot do business with anyone who uses UPS.)
A cost of doing business, as it were. If the order is big enough, you
might still come out ahead.

If you look at processor pricing, there can be a world of difference
between Canadian prices and U.S., in which case you won't dwell on the
NCIX page for very long.


Thanks Paul, and sorry if I was ill-tempered on the other post. I'll check
out NCIX.

I've been had by the brokerage scam as well. The only way around paying
brokerage fees that I've found is by insisting that the order be shipped
through USPS rather than by courier. However, it seems USPS have raised
their fees recently, so that option may no longer be worthwhile. I suppose
a computer case is too big to ship through USPS anyways.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 05:38:58 -0400, Igor
wrote:

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 04:44:03 -0400, kony wrote:

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:54:49 -0400, Igor
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:50:59 -0400, Paul wrote:

snip


If you tell us the motherboard make and model, we give better advice.

I don't see how that information is relevant to my two primary
questions,
or even why it would be necessary to venture an answer to the third.
They're pretty general questions. Are you one of those guys who likes to
make everything more complicated than it needs to be?


Paul does a good job of answering questions and posing
details of variables that may matter. Sometimes the rest of
us just make assumptions instead of putting forth as much
effort. His point was good, that providing details of your
hardware is a good idea, it allows a reply more applicable
to specific hardware.

I didn't mean to jump on Paul, I'm sure he's a friendly and knowledgeable
guy, but why did he assume that I had wanted that level of detail in a
response?


Because it depends on the motherboard and chipset you are
considering for this upgrade.


If I had wanted a specific, tailor-made reply, I would've provided the
details of my hardware. In this case, I just wanted a simple reply, so I
didn't feel the need to provide such details.

... but there is no simple reply, if there were there
wouldn't have been any further inquiry to what specific
system hardware/chipset it is.



I found the insinuation that I *should have* provided the make and model
of my motherboard, that not doing so was an oversight on my part, and that
my questions couldn't be properly answered as I had posed them, just a bit
patronizing.

If you can't bother to provide details of the system upon
which you try to upgrade the memory, you won't get the
correct answer because it depends upon the variables we
asked about (or else, we wouldn't have bothered to mention
it at all).

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 06:03:21 -0400, kony wrote:

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 05:38:58 -0400, Igor
wrote:



I found the insinuation that I *should have* provided the make and model
of my motherboard, that not doing so was an oversight on my part, and
that
my questions couldn't be properly answered as I had posed them, just a
bit
patronizing.


maybe, but on the other hand if you can't make the effort to
do that, why should others make the effort to guess about
what is likely, instead of knowing more certainly if you
have hardware upon which the details might be more likely,
and/or known problems?


Like I said, they were general questions, and all that was called for were
general responses (which you did, in fact, provide, and which you did, in
fact, say in an earlier post required less effort than the detailed
answers Paul likes to give).