AMD compared to Intel

"Wes Newell" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 15:31:21 +0000, Buffalo wrote:

Many people leave their PC running 24/7 and unattended with no
monitoring
programs running that would shut it down if the cpu fan failed.

Lvcool is not a monitoring program. It put's the cpu in stop_grant state
when the cpu is idle, disconnecting the FSB and basically shutting down
the cpu during normal operations and the fan condition doesn't matter at
all. Do a search on lvcool.


I did, before I posted last time. It says it has an option to Throttle-down
the cpu if it becomes overheated.
Sounds like 'monitoring' to me.
Of course, this may not be available in the Linux version.
Check for the latest version for Linux, it may do the same.

"Features
Controls the "Northbridge Bus Disconnect Bit" to lower your CPUs power level
during idle
An idle loop that puts your CPU into STPGNT state if your OS won't
Displays the current CPU temperature in your system tray (optional)
Optional Hardware Throttling of the CPU when it gets too hot (50%, 10%,
shutdown)
Lightweight: 32K

Requirements
Chipset with a VT8371, VT82C691/693A/694 or VT8363 Northbridge and a
VT82C686x Southbridge (VIA KT133x or KX133) - limited support for AMD 761
A Win32 OS (Windows 98 or better - no that does not include LINUX *g*)"


"Wes Newell" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 01:04:47 +0000, Buffalo wrote:

Once again,
If the cpu fan fails on a AMD cpu and the mb doesn't have the
(C.O.P.)
will
the AMD fail due to overheat or not ( no mb monitors like MBM)?
I believe the answer is Yes.

Then what you believe is not entirely correct. I can unplug the fan on
my
system and the cpu temp will only go up about 2C.


Perhaps you have some super heatsink on your cpu.

Well, if you consider an old 297gram all alumimun HS a super cooler, then
yes.:-) I had a Thermosonic ThermoEngine on it at the time of the test.
Not very good at all by todays copper/aluminum giant cooler standards.



If you used the heatsink/fan combo that comes with a retail AMD and
unplugged the fan, I really don't believe the AMD would keep on running
and
running. I believe it would 'fry'.

And you'd be wrong.

I think that the majority of AMD XPs would fry or become inoperable with
their 'retail' hs/fan combo and the fan not running.
This means no third party cooling, etc software installed.
If a cpu overheats and the pc freezes, does the cpu usage go down to almost
zero, or can it stay really high?


That would put it's idle
temp at about 30C.

30C, wow, that is not a normal temp for an AMD cpu with 'retail' cooling
unless it is not turned on.

You're right. With the fan turned on it was under 30C. In fact, it was
only about 2C above case temp.

So Ivcool is doing its job. Most people don't use that type of software.


3-4C with fan unplugged. Now without
lvcool it would run about 44C at idle, and there's no way I would have
unplugged the fan. I don't know how long it would have taken to fry the
cpu, but I suspect it would have done it within 10-20 minutes as a wag.

Just earlier, you disagreed and said an AMD would not fry.
BTW, how high does your cpu temp get under 'HEAVY' load?
If the fan failed failed on your pc during a long run of heavy load, what
would you expect the results to be?


Running Lvcool and it would keep running and running
and running.:-)

Good point. Unfortunately it only works with certain chipsets, I
believe.

Lvcool only worked with the KT133(A) series last time I checked, but there
are others that cover most if not all newer chipsets, at least for
windows.

"Chipset with a VT8371, VT82C691/693A/694 or VT8363 Northbridge and a
VT82C686x Southbridge (VIA KT133x or KX133) - limited support for AMD 761
A Win32 OS (Windows 98 or better - no that does not include LINUX *g*)"


I run Linux.


--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)

At least the future AMDs will most likely have the 'survival' built into
them, as Intel cpu's have had for quite awhile.
Yes, I repeat, Yes, I am using an XP2100+ Palomino and I really believe that
if my cpu fan fails while under load, the Palomino will go the 'horsey
heaven'.
Buffalo

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:11:18 +0000, Buffalo wrote:

If you used the heatsink/fan combo that comes with a retail AMD and
unplugged the fan, I really don't believe the AMD would keep on
running and running. I believe it would 'fry'.

And you'd be wrong.

I think that the majority of AMD XPs would fry or become inoperable with
their 'retail' hs/fan combo and the fan not running. This means no third
party cooling, etc software installed. If a cpu overheats and the pc
freezes, does the cpu usage go down to almost zero, or can it stay
really high?

Yes, it would probably fry without some sort of protection. So if they
turned it all off and walked away and the fan fell off it might fry (again
depending on how fast they are running it), and they would get just what
they deserved for running it without the protection that is available.

So Ivcool is doing its job. Most people don't use that type of software.

That's not my fault.:-)


3-4C with fan unplugged. Now without
lvcool it would run about 44C at idle, and there's no way I would have
unplugged the fan. I don't know how long it would have taken to fry the
cpu, but I suspect it would have done it within 10-20 minutes as a wag.

Just earlier, you disagreed and said an AMD would not fry.

It wouldn't under normal operation running lvcool.

BTW, how high does your cpu temp get under 'HEAVY' load?

I think it was about 49C with the old cooler and 100% load.

If the fan failed failed on your pc during a long run of heavy load,
what would you expect the results to be?

Depends on what you call heavy. At 70% it would probably still be ok for
some time. At 100% load, it would only last a little longer than without
running lvcool. But the onloy time I've ever seen my cpu load near 100% is
when I've forced it there. Probably 90% pf people will never use more than
20% except when playing a game. In which case, they will be at the machine
when the fan fails.

Lvcool only worked with the KT133(A) series last time I checked, but
there are others that cover most if not all newer chipsets, at least
for windows.

"Chipset with a VT8371, VT82C691/693A/694 or VT8363 Northbridge and a
VT82C686x Southbridge (VIA KT133x or KX133) - limited support for AMD
761 A Win32 OS (Windows 98 or better - no that does not include LINUX
*g*)"

I'm using Athcool (linux) on the SIS746fx. Doesn't actually issue stop
grants like lvcool did, but still works well with acpi. I still use lvcool
on my KT7 board.

At least the future AMDs will most likely have the 'survival' built into
them, as Intel cpu's have had for quite awhile.

I think I read the K8 did, but don't recall for sure. I really don't care.
It hasn't been an issue with any I've built.

Yes, I repeat, Yes, I am using an XP2100+ Palomino and I really believe
that if my cpu fan fails while under load, the Palomino will go the
'horsey heaven'.

Could happen under heavy load without protection. That's for sure. But
even my old KT7 bios has auto shutdown on fan failure.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html

"Wes Newell"
[snip]

Then what you believe is not entirely correct. I can unplug the fan on
my
system and the cpu temp will only go up about 2C.

You are talking about when the cpu is idle and have Ivcool working, are you
not?
At first I thought you meant while the cpu was under load and that is why I
thougt you must have some ' super' heatsink. (only running at 30C)


[snip]

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 18:32:19 +0000, Ben Pope wrote:

Wes Newell wrote:
Lvcool only worked with the KT133(A) series last time I checked, but
there are others that cover most if not all newer chipsets, at least
for windows. I run Linux.

I think the kernel automatically uses that command, doesn't it? Or that
might only be kernel 2.6... or I might have misread what it was saying on
bootup.

Don't know about 2.6, but 2.4 doesn't. I run Lvcool on ny KT7, and Athcool
on my K7S8X board (sis746fx). Whats strange was the original K7S8X board
already had the bit set, but I think they changed it in the later bios. At
least it's not automatically set on the R3 board. but Athcool sets it.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html

Have you ever read my original reply to the OP?
Here it is.

To add to the other replies.
If the heatsink/fan fails on an AMD, it will most likely 'fry' and be
ruined. [edit] notice the words 'most likely' and not always.
If the heatsink/fan fails on an Intel, it will most like just go into its
'Fail-Safe' type mode and run much slower, but not fry." [edit] Do you
believe this statement?

Yes, when I said 'retail' I was talking about the hs/fan combo that comes
with a Retail Box AMD Processor.
Damn, where the hell did you ever get the idea that I thought you could not
possibly cool a cpu down to around -30C?
I was talking about using the 'retail' hs/fan that comes with a Retail Box
AMD, not frickin freon or liquid nitrogen.
Once again you totally have missed the point.


"J.Clarke"
I'm sorry, but I don't see what eventuality other than the heat sink
falling off is addressed by this monitoring software you tout.

The fan could fail for a variety of reasons while the processor was under
medium to heavy load.
[snip]

"
I mean -30C. As in 30 degrees below zero centigrade, 22 degrees below
zero Fahrenheit, 243.15 degrees Kelvin, 437.4 Rankine, and -24 Reaumer.

I would give you a list of commercially available products sold for the
purpose of running microprocessors at cryogenic temperatures, but I
think it would do you good to research this yourself. Suffice it to say
that there are at least two companies producing phase-change systems
(the third one may have folded, I don't recall) and a larger number
producing Peltier-based devices, and all of these are readily available
to hobbyists.

There are also some hobbyists who are experimenting with the use of
liquid nitrogen for cooling. They achieve considerably better than -30.
In fact they achieve considerably better than -_1_30.
[snip]
PS: Don't forget to check the batteries in your smoke detectors. :-)

What smoke detectors?

--
--
--John

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:10:48 GMT
"Buffalo" wrote:

Have you ever read my original reply to the OP?
Here it is.

To add to the other replies.
If the heatsink/fan fails on an AMD, it will most likely 'fry' and be
ruined. [edit] notice the words 'most likely' and not always.
If the heatsink/fan fails on an Intel, it will most like just go into
its'Fail-Safe' type mode and run much slower, but not fry." [edit]
Do you believe this statement?

I believe many things. One thing I believe is that by not saying
something to the effect of "Intel has implemented a feature which
reduces the clock speed in the unlikely event of a cooling failure so as
to preserve the processor. Intel advocates claim this is a great
advantage. AMD advocates point out that such a failure is highly
improbable. If this possibility is something that you lose sleep over
then the Intel would be a better choice, if not then it's pretty much
irrelevant" you make it appear that all AMD processors are in imminent
danger of self-destruction.

It is true that one may die of eating peanuts. However that does not
mean that one does anybody a service by saying "If you eat peanuts you
will most likely die".

Yes, when I said 'retail' I was talking about the hs/fan combo that
comes with a Retail Box AMD Processor.
Damn, where the hell did you ever get the idea that I thought you
could not possibly cool a cpu down to around -30C?

Well, "WTF do you think you are kidding? I doubt you even know how cold
-30C is?(Perhaps you mean lower than 30C? It's really hard to tell what
you mean.)" and "-30C (22degrees below 0 on the Farenheit scale) is
common place? Yeah, at the South Pole. You probably mean +30C or less
than 30C" had something to do with my having that impression.

I was talking about using the 'retail' hs/fan that comes with a Retail
Box AMD, not frickin freon or liquid nitrogen.

Neither Freon nor liquid nitrogen is needed to cool a processor to
-30.

In any case, why limit the discussion to the fan that comes in the
retail box?

Once again you totally have missed the point.

Not really. The point is that you are continuing to act like that
particular feature is of some great utility.


"J.Clarke"
I'm sorry, but I don't see what eventuality other than the heat sink
falling off is addressed by this monitoring software you tout.

The fan could fail for a variety of reasons while the processor was
under medium to heavy load.

And the machine hangs and the processor stops executing instructions and
the clock speed effectively goes to zero, so where's the problem? If
the heat sink comes completely off the processor might heat rapidly
enough to damage itself, with the heat sink in place that is quite
unlikely and in many cases there will be sufficient airflow from the
case fans to avoid even the hang.

[snip]

"
I mean -30C. As in 30 degrees below zero centigrade, 22 degrees
below zero Fahrenheit, 243.15 degrees Kelvin, 437.4 Rankine, and -24
Reaumer.

I would give you a list of commercially available products sold for
the purpose of running microprocessors at cryogenic temperatures,
but I think it would do you good to research this yourself. Suffice
it to say that there are at least two companies producing
phase-change systems(the third one may have folded, I don't recall)
and a larger number producing Peltier-based devices, and all of
these are readily available to hobbyists.

There are also some hobbyists who are experimenting with the use of
liquid nitrogen for cooling. They achieve considerably better than
-30.
In fact they achieve considerably better than -_1_30.
[snip]
PS: Don't forget to check the batteries in your smoke detectors.
:-)

What smoke detectors?

--
--
--John




--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:40:18 GMT
"Buffalo" wrote:

Please learn how to read and comprehend what is written.
AMD is also going to use that 'fail-safe' system, so it isn't just
Intel bs.

Sorry but the fact that one company matches another company's features
doesn't mean that there is any need for those features, just that they
want to shut up brain-dead advocates who make a big deal about them.

Go and try to impress someone else with your bias's and
info. Bye

I'm sorry, but I don't think that anything that I have posted here is
going to "impress" anybody who knows his butt from a hole in the ground.
Certainly anybody who has been participating in any of the overclocking
newsgroups for a year or so has heard it all. Since you don't seem to
be aware of this, well . . .

"J.Clarke" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:10:48 GMT
"Buffalo" wrote:

Have you ever read my original reply to the OP?
Here it is.

To add to the other replies.
If the heatsink/fan fails on an AMD, it will most likely 'fry' and
be ruined. [edit] notice the words 'most likely' and not
always. If the heatsink/fan fails on an Intel, it will most like
just go into its'Fail-Safe' type mode and run much slower, but not
fry." [edit] Do you believe this statement?

I believe many things. One thing I believe is that by not saying
something to the effect of "Intel has implemented a feature which
reduces the clock speed in the unlikely event of a cooling failure
so as to preserve the processor. Intel advocates claim this is a
great advantage. AMD advocates point out that such a failure is
highly improbable. If this possibility is something that you lose
sleep over then the Intel would be a better choice, if not then it's
pretty much irrelevant" you make it appear that all AMD processors
are in imminent danger of self-destruction.

It is true that one may die of eating peanuts. However that does
not mean that one does anybody a service by saying "If you eat
peanuts you will most likely die".

Yes, when I said 'retail' I was talking about the hs/fan combo
that comes with a Retail Box AMD Processor.
Damn, where the hell did you ever get the idea that I thought you
could not possibly cool a cpu down to around -30C?

Well, "WTF do you think you are kidding? I doubt you even know how
cold-30C is?(Perhaps you mean lower than 30C? It's really hard to
tell what you mean.)" and "-30C (22degrees below 0 on the Farenheit
scale) is common place? Yeah, at the South Pole. You probably mean
+30C or less than 30C" had something to do with my having that
impression.

I was talking about using the 'retail' hs/fan that comes with a
Retail Box AMD, not frickin freon or liquid nitrogen.

Neither Freon nor liquid nitrogen is needed to cool a processor to
-30.

In any case, why limit the discussion to the fan that comes in the
retail box?

Once again you totally have missed the point.

Not really. The point is that you are continuing to act like that
particular feature is of some great utility.


"J.Clarke"
I'm sorry, but I don't see what eventuality other than the heat
sink falling off is addressed by this monitoring software you
tout.

The fan could fail for a variety of reasons while the processor
was under medium to heavy load.

And the machine hangs and the processor stops executing instructions
and the clock speed effectively goes to zero, so where's the
problem? If the heat sink comes completely off the processor might
heat rapidly enough to damage itself, with the heat sink in place
that is quite unlikely and in many cases there will be sufficient
airflow from the case fans to avoid even the hang.

[snip]

"
I mean -30C. As in 30 degrees below zero centigrade, 22 degrees
below zero Fahrenheit, 243.15 degrees Kelvin, 437.4 Rankine, and
-24 Reaumer.

I would give you a list of commercially available products sold
for the purpose of running microprocessors at cryogenic
temperatures, but I think it would do you good to research this
yourself. Suffice it to say that there are at least two
companies producing phase-change systems(the third one may have
folded, I don't recall) and a larger number producing
Peltier-based devices, and all of these are readily available to
hobbyists.

There are also some hobbyists who are experimenting with the use
of liquid nitrogen for cooling. They achieve considerably
better than-30.
In fact they achieve considerably better than -_1_30.
[snip]
PS: Don't forget to check the batteries in your smoke
detectors.:-)

What smoke detectors?

--
--
--John




--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)





--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:40:21 GMT
"Buffalo" wrote:

Please learn how to read and comprehend what is written.
AMD is also going to use that 'fail-safe' system, so it isn't just
Intel bs. Go and try to impress someone else with your bias's and
info. Bye

Got you repeating yourself. As Hannibal Lecter would say "goody-goody".
Now where did I put the fava beans?

"J.Clarke" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:10:48 GMT
"Buffalo" wrote:

Have you ever read my original reply to the OP?
Here it is.

To add to the other replies.
If the heatsink/fan fails on an AMD, it will most likely 'fry' and
be ruined. [edit] notice the words 'most likely' and not
always. If the heatsink/fan fails on an Intel, it will most like
just go into its'Fail-Safe' type mode and run much slower, but not
fry." [edit] Do you believe this statement?

I believe many things. One thing I believe is that by not saying
something to the effect of "Intel has implemented a feature which
reduces the clock speed in the unlikely event of a cooling failure
so as to preserve the processor. Intel advocates claim this is a
great advantage. AMD advocates point out that such a failure is
highly improbable. If this possibility is something that you lose
sleep over then the Intel would be a better choice, if not then it's
pretty much irrelevant" you make it appear that all AMD processors
are in imminent danger of self-destruction.

It is true that one may die of eating peanuts. However that does
not mean that one does anybody a service by saying "If you eat
peanuts you will most likely die".

Yes, when I said 'retail' I was talking about the hs/fan combo
that comes with a Retail Box AMD Processor.
Damn, where the hell did you ever get the idea that I thought you
could not possibly cool a cpu down to around -30C?

Well, "WTF do you think you are kidding? I doubt you even know how
cold-30C is?(Perhaps you mean lower than 30C? It's really hard to
tell what you mean.)" and "-30C (22degrees below 0 on the Farenheit
scale) is common place? Yeah, at the South Pole. You probably mean
+30C or less than 30C" had something to do with my having that
impression.

I was talking about using the 'retail' hs/fan that comes with a
Retail Box AMD, not frickin freon or liquid nitrogen.

Neither Freon nor liquid nitrogen is needed to cool a processor to
-30.

In any case, why limit the discussion to the fan that comes in the
retail box?

Once again you totally have missed the point.

Not really. The point is that you are continuing to act like that
particular feature is of some great utility.


"J.Clarke"
I'm sorry, but I don't see what eventuality other than the heat
sink falling off is addressed by this monitoring software you
tout.

The fan could fail for a variety of reasons while the processor
was under medium to heavy load.

And the machine hangs and the processor stops executing instructions
and the clock speed effectively goes to zero, so where's the
problem? If the heat sink comes completely off the processor might
heat rapidly enough to damage itself, with the heat sink in place
that is quite unlikely and in many cases there will be sufficient
airflow from the case fans to avoid even the hang.

[snip]

"
I mean -30C. As in 30 degrees below zero centigrade, 22 degrees
below zero Fahrenheit, 243.15 degrees Kelvin, 437.4 Rankine, and
-24 Reaumer.

I would give you a list of commercially available products sold
for the purpose of running microprocessors at cryogenic
temperatures, but I think it would do you good to research this
yourself. Suffice it to say that there are at least two
companies producing phase-change systems(the third one may have
folded, I don't recall) and a larger number producing
Peltier-based devices, and all of these are readily available to
hobbyists.

There are also some hobbyists who are experimenting with the use
of liquid nitrogen for cooling. They achieve considerably
better than-30.
In fact they achieve considerably better than -_1_30.
[snip]
PS: Don't forget to check the batteries in your smoke
detectors.:-)

What smoke detectors?

--
--
--John




--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)






--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Please learn how to read and comprehend what is written.
AMD is also going to use that 'fail-safe' system, so it isn't just Intel bs.
Go and try to impress someone else with your bias's and info.
Bye

"J.Clarke" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:10:48 GMT
"Buffalo" wrote:

Have you ever read my original reply to the OP?
Here it is.

To add to the other replies.
If the heatsink/fan fails on an AMD, it will most likely 'fry' and be
ruined. [edit] notice the words 'most likely' and not always.
If the heatsink/fan fails on an Intel, it will most like just go into
its'Fail-Safe' type mode and run much slower, but not fry." [edit]
Do you believe this statement?

I believe many things. One thing I believe is that by not saying
something to the effect of "Intel has implemented a feature which
reduces the clock speed in the unlikely event of a cooling failure so as
to preserve the processor. Intel advocates claim this is a great
advantage. AMD advocates point out that such a failure is highly
improbable. If this possibility is something that you lose sleep over
then the Intel would be a better choice, if not then it's pretty much
irrelevant" you make it appear that all AMD processors are in imminent
danger of self-destruction.

It is true that one may die of eating peanuts. However that does not
mean that one does anybody a service by saying "If you eat peanuts you
will most likely die".

Yes, when I said 'retail' I was talking about the hs/fan combo that
comes with a Retail Box AMD Processor.
Damn, where the hell did you ever get the idea that I thought you
could not possibly cool a cpu down to around -30C?

Well, "WTF do you think you are kidding? I doubt you even know how cold
-30C is?(Perhaps you mean lower than 30C? It's really hard to tell what
you mean.)" and "-30C (22degrees below 0 on the Farenheit scale) is
common place? Yeah, at the South Pole. You probably mean +30C or less
than 30C" had something to do with my having that impression.

I was talking about using the 'retail' hs/fan that comes with a Retail
Box AMD, not frickin freon or liquid nitrogen.

Neither Freon nor liquid nitrogen is needed to cool a processor to
-30.

In any case, why limit the discussion to the fan that comes in the
retail box?

Once again you totally have missed the point.

Not really. The point is that you are continuing to act like that
particular feature is of some great utility.


"J.Clarke"
I'm sorry, but I don't see what eventuality other than the heat sink
falling off is addressed by this monitoring software you tout.

The fan could fail for a variety of reasons while the processor was
under medium to heavy load.

And the machine hangs and the processor stops executing instructions and
the clock speed effectively goes to zero, so where's the problem? If
the heat sink comes completely off the processor might heat rapidly
enough to damage itself, with the heat sink in place that is quite
unlikely and in many cases there will be sufficient airflow from the
case fans to avoid even the hang.

[snip]

"
I mean -30C. As in 30 degrees below zero centigrade, 22 degrees
below zero Fahrenheit, 243.15 degrees Kelvin, 437.4 Rankine, and -24
Reaumer.

I would give you a list of commercially available products sold for
the purpose of running microprocessors at cryogenic temperatures,
but I think it would do you good to research this yourself. Suffice
it to say that there are at least two companies producing
phase-change systems(the third one may have folded, I don't recall)
and a larger number producing Peltier-based devices, and all of
these are readily available to hobbyists.

There are also some hobbyists who are experimenting with the use of
liquid nitrogen for cooling. They achieve considerably better than
-30.
In fact they achieve considerably better than -_1_30.
[snip]
PS: Don't forget to check the batteries in your smoke detectors.
:-)

What smoke detectors?

--
--
--John




--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Please learn how to read and comprehend what is written.
AMD is also going to use that 'fail-safe' system, so it isn't just Intel bs.
Go and try to impress someone else with your bias's and info.
Bye

"J.Clarke" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:10:48 GMT
"Buffalo" wrote:

Have you ever read my original reply to the OP?
Here it is.

To add to the other replies.
If the heatsink/fan fails on an AMD, it will most likely 'fry' and be
ruined. [edit] notice the words 'most likely' and not always.
If the heatsink/fan fails on an Intel, it will most like just go into
its'Fail-Safe' type mode and run much slower, but not fry." [edit]
Do you believe this statement?

I believe many things. One thing I believe is that by not saying
something to the effect of "Intel has implemented a feature which
reduces the clock speed in the unlikely event of a cooling failure so as
to preserve the processor. Intel advocates claim this is a great
advantage. AMD advocates point out that such a failure is highly
improbable. If this possibility is something that you lose sleep over
then the Intel would be a better choice, if not then it's pretty much
irrelevant" you make it appear that all AMD processors are in imminent
danger of self-destruction.

It is true that one may die of eating peanuts. However that does not
mean that one does anybody a service by saying "If you eat peanuts you
will most likely die".

Yes, when I said 'retail' I was talking about the hs/fan combo that
comes with a Retail Box AMD Processor.
Damn, where the hell did you ever get the idea that I thought you
could not possibly cool a cpu down to around -30C?

Well, "WTF do you think you are kidding? I doubt you even know how cold
-30C is?(Perhaps you mean lower than 30C? It's really hard to tell what
you mean.)" and "-30C (22degrees below 0 on the Farenheit scale) is
common place? Yeah, at the South Pole. You probably mean +30C or less
than 30C" had something to do with my having that impression.

I was talking about using the 'retail' hs/fan that comes with a Retail
Box AMD, not frickin freon or liquid nitrogen.

Neither Freon nor liquid nitrogen is needed to cool a processor to
-30.

In any case, why limit the discussion to the fan that comes in the
retail box?

Once again you totally have missed the point.

Not really. The point is that you are continuing to act like that
particular feature is of some great utility.


"J.Clarke"
I'm sorry, but I don't see what eventuality other than the heat sink
falling off is addressed by this monitoring software you tout.

The fan could fail for a variety of reasons while the processor was
under medium to heavy load.

And the machine hangs and the processor stops executing instructions and
the clock speed effectively goes to zero, so where's the problem? If
the heat sink comes completely off the processor might heat rapidly
enough to damage itself, with the heat sink in place that is quite
unlikely and in many cases there will be sufficient airflow from the
case fans to avoid even the hang.

[snip]

"
I mean -30C. As in 30 degrees below zero centigrade, 22 degrees
below zero Fahrenheit, 243.15 degrees Kelvin, 437.4 Rankine, and -24
Reaumer.

I would give you a list of commercially available products sold for
the purpose of running microprocessors at cryogenic temperatures,
but I think it would do you good to research this yourself. Suffice
it to say that there are at least two companies producing
phase-change systems(the third one may have folded, I don't recall)
and a larger number producing Peltier-based devices, and all of
these are readily available to hobbyists.

There are also some hobbyists who are experimenting with the use of
liquid nitrogen for cooling. They achieve considerably better than
-30.
In fact they achieve considerably better than -_1_30.
[snip]
PS: Don't forget to check the batteries in your smoke detectors.
:-)

What smoke detectors?

--
--
--John




--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)