If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Best quality motherboards for AMD
Who makes the best quality motherboards for AMD CPUs with all solid
polymer capacitors? Which maker has the lowest number of defective motherboards and the lowest number of early failures? Which maker has the longest lasting motherboards? Which company has the best customer support? Are Gigabyte and ASUS the only companies that make motherboards for AMD with all solid polymer capacitors? How do they compare in terms of quality, longevity and customer support? Thank you in advance for all replies. -- Whenever I hear or think of the song "Great green gobs of greasy grimey gopher guts" I imagine my cat saying; "That sounds REALLY, REALLY good. I'll have some of that!" |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Best quality motherboards for AMD
On Mar 25, 10:38*pm, Daniel Prince wrote:
Are Gigabyte and ASUS the only companies that make motherboards for AMD with all solid polymer capacitors? *How do they compare in terms of quality, longevity and customer support? Why the fixation with these capacitors? And is AMD still competitive in the PC race? RL |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Best quality motherboards for AMD
RayLopez99 wrote:
On Mar 25, 10:38*pm, Daniel Prince wrote: Are Gigabyte and ASUS the only companies that make motherboards for AMD with all solid polymer capacitors? *How do they compare in terms of quality, longevity and customer support? Why the fixation with these capacitors? Because many electrolytic capacitors are counterfeit units made in Taiwan that often fail in less than a year. Even quality Japanese electrolytic capacitors are the most failure prone component in electronic devices. Solid polymer capacitors should last at least six times as long as electrolytic capacitors and they are not that much more expensive. And is AMD still competitive in the PC race? That I am not sure about. -- I don't understand why they make gourmet cat foods. I have known many cats in my life and none of them were gourmets. They were all gourmands! |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Best quality motherboards for AMD
On Mar 26, 11:59*pm, Daniel Prince wrote:
RayLopez99 wrote: On Mar 25, 10:38*pm, Daniel Prince wrote: Are Gigabyte and ASUS the only companies that make motherboards for AMD with all solid polymer capacitors? *How do they compare in terms of quality, longevity and customer support? Why the fixation with these capacitors? Because many electrolytic capacitors are counterfeit units made in Taiwan that often fail in less than a year. *Even quality Japanese electrolytic capacitors are the most failure prone component in electronic devices. *Solid polymer capacitors should last at least six times as long as electrolytic capacitors and they are not that much more expensive. Well that's interesting. I suppose this is not to be confused with "High K dielectric" in the semi manu process...let me Google this...nope, different concepts. Seems like solid polymer capacitors, from this 2007 article: http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2113 are "high end" capacitors that are better than "normal". That's good to know, and though I've not had any problems with "normal" capacitors, I suppose if the price is right it's better to get the high end capacitors. As your original question, if logic holds, I would imagine that by definition the high end capacitors should be better, being the gold standard if not gold plated, no pun intended, so as ASUS (heard of them) and Gigabit (never heard of them) are presumably reputable companies, then you've answered your question--high end is better. I'll keep this in mind if I go mobo shopping. RL |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Best quality motherboards for AMD
RayLopez99 wrote:
On Mar 26, 11:59 pm, Daniel Prince wrote: RayLopez99 wrote: On Mar 25, 10:38 pm, Daniel Prince wrote: Are Gigabyte and ASUS the only companies that make motherboards for AMD with all solid polymer capacitors? How do they compare in terms of quality, longevity and customer support? Why the fixation with these capacitors? Because many electrolytic capacitors are counterfeit units made in Taiwan that often fail in less than a year. Even quality Japanese electrolytic capacitors are the most failure prone component in electronic devices. Solid polymer capacitors should last at least six times as long as electrolytic capacitors and they are not that much more expensive. Well that's interesting. I suppose this is not to be confused with "High K dielectric" in the semi manu process...let me Google this...nope, different concepts. Seems like solid polymer capacitors, from this 2007 article: http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2113 are "high end" capacitors that are better than "normal". That's good to know, and though I've not had any problems with "normal" capacitors, I suppose if the price is right it's better to get the high end capacitors. As your original question, if logic holds, I would imagine that by definition the high end capacitors should be better, being the gold standard if not gold plated, no pun intended, so as ASUS (heard of them) and Gigabit (never heard of them) are presumably reputable companies, then you've answered your question--high end is better. I'll keep this in mind if I go mobo shopping. RL Polymer caps are a response to the "capacitor plague" of years back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague To fight the perception, that the motherboard makers might use defective caps, they started switching to solid polymer. The intent, is to disassociate the product from the capacitor plague, to put the customer's mind at ease. In fact, there is no dying need for polymer, but there you are. They're using them. Aluminum electrolytic capacitors can last 15 years at moderate temperatures. The wearout mechanism, is the rubber bung on the bottom dries out, and the electrolyte dries out as a result. Plague capacitors can fail in storage, and without bias, in a couple years. So, by comparison, the caps with the bad chemistry are rather sad, in terms of lifetime performance. They don't even need to be used, to fail. Another thing to note - some disreputable capacitor makers, have been putting aluminum electrolytic caps, in polymer packages. (Caps meant to look like polymer.) http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6...nfzcapsah7.jpg More pics for fun. http://forums.overclockersclub.com/l...hp/t70624.html The only cap failures I've had here, were in an Antec power supply. All my motherboards are fine. Even a 10 year old board still runs. Paul |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Best quality motherboards for AMD
I had some capacitor problems too. Less than 2 years in use. I replaced them year 2009. http://tekniken.se/docs/image/example/itx_cap_ce11.jpg http://tekniken.se/docs/image/exampl...tx_cap_c28.jpg http://tekniken.se/docs/image/exampl...tx_cap_c47.jpg http://tekniken.se/docs/image/exampl...tx_cap_c48.jpg |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Best quality motherboards for AMD
RayLopez99 wrote: On Mar 25, 10:38*pm, Daniel Prince wrote: Are Gigabyte and ASUS the only companies that make motherboards for AMD with all solid polymer capacitors? *How do they compare in terms of quality, longevity and customer support? Why the fixation with these capacitors? With most consumers it's just because "solid polymer" is trendy, but those caps have been more reliable than the average wet ones, probably because the vast majority of polymer caps are made mostly by quality manufacturers, that is, Japanese companies, or maybe it's just not possible to goof up the solid material the way electrolyte can be. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Best quality motherboards for AMD
Daniel Prince wrote: RayLopez99 wrote: Why the fixation with these capacitors? Because many electrolytic capacitors are counterfeit units made in Taiwan that often fail in less than a year. Even quality Japanese electrolytic capacitors are the most failure prone component in electronic devices. Solid polymer capacitors should last at least six times as long as electrolytic capacitors and they are not that much more expensive. Counterfeit capacitors are widely sold, but motherboard makers rarely use them and instead install GENUINE crap brands, like OST, Ltec, Teapo, Koshin, Fuhjyyu, or G-Luxon (they're back!), which tend to last 2-3 years. OTOH high quality wet electrolytic caps can easily last 10 years, as the Japanese Chemicons, Rubycons, and Nichicons in my vintage-1999 Delta power supplies have, and I've had to replace only 2 caps in my 33-year-old Japanese TV while 3-4 caps have already gone bad in the 2-year-old digital converter box that sits on top of it). |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Best quality motherboards for AMD
"larry moe 'n curly" wrote:
OTOH high quality wet electrolytic caps can easily last 10 years, How cool do they have to be keep to last 10 years? -- I don't understand why they make gourmet cat foods. I have known many cats in my life and none of them were gourmets. They were all gourmands! |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Best quality motherboards for AMD
Daniel Prince wrote:
"larry moe 'n curly" wrote: OTOH high quality wet electrolytic caps can easily last 10 years, How cool do they have to be keep to last 10 years? The capacitor thing, uses a modified Arrhenius relationship. In chemistry, Arrhenius predicts that chemistry reaction rate, doubles for every 7C rise in temperature. For capacitors, they do a curve fit, and the exponent isn't quite the same as the one in chemistry. Capacitor reliability may double, for anywhere from 10C temperature rise, to 15C temperature rise. http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/.../e_MBZ_MCZ.pdf The data sheet has the basic endurance stated in it. In small print... 2000hrs at 105°C, Say the temperature inside the computer case is 35C. From 105 down to 35, gives us 70C to work with. (I'm ignoring core heating in the cap, for simplicity.) Just picking a number, if the lifetime doubles for every 10C, that is 7 doublings or 2**7 times longer life, or 2000 * 2**7 = 256000 hours or 29 years of operation. If you pick a different number, like 15C for the modified Arrhenius factor, you might be looking at 2000 * 2**5 = 64000 hours or 7.3 years of continuous usage. Each manufacturer will provide a web page or data somewhere, as to the modified Arrhenius factor. (They do curve fitting to measured data, to get it. You cannot assume every manufacturer gets the same answer. Some of them will cheat and use the measurements of others.) They mention 10C in this note, plus 15 year service life independent of the Arrhenius calculation. The 15 year service life is based on the rubber bung in the bottom of the cap, drying out and failing to maintain the seal on the capacitor. Rubber is attacked by things like ozone, and local conditions might cause the rubber to fail before that estimate. (Consider how long a rubber band lasts in your environment, to get some idea of what is happening to rubber.) If your Arrhenius calculation comes out to 29 years, then the 15 year service life overrides that calculation. And the service life isn't a "guaranteed fail", it would represent some percentage of the caps in service, needing to be replaced. http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/products/alumi/pdf/Life.pdf When electronic equipment is designed, "Service Life" is a factor which is stated in the high level architecture documents. Where I worked, at one time, that number might have been 20 years, while later the number dropped to 10 years. A change in the Service Life for a line of products, gives the engineer more room for cost cutting. To meet 20 years, might take extensive component testing, usage of more expensive components, or a complete change in implementation (say a digital VRM with Volterra, rather than the usual Vcore implementation). I have no idea what the "Service Life" target for motherboards is. Presumably, it is longer than the 3 year warranty :-) But not by much. If you can find similar documents for solid polymer caps, you could go through a similar analysis, to see what they're buying you. Paul |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
ASUS Motherboards - Quality or Goofballs? | TVeblen | Homebuilt PC's | 32 | February 10th 09 09:39 PM |
Quality of ASRock motherboards ? / Is ASRock the same as Elitegroup (ECS) ? | Jason Stacy | General | 0 | November 29th 06 04:21 PM |
Quality of P5LD2 and P5WD2 motherboards | th | Asus Motherboards | 3 | January 10th 06 04:45 PM |
Canon IP4000R won't print grey in high quality paper and quality settings | A Shropshire Lad | Printers | 26 | October 16th 05 09:42 AM |
How is the quality, reliability of Soyo motherboards? | Ray K | Homebuilt PC's | 8 | January 4th 05 11:49 PM |