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#52
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Cheap fire suppression system for a PC?
On 2009-10-20, Al Dykes wrote:
In article , ShadowTek wrote: On 2009-10-20, kony wrote: Swap the PSU fan for a quieter one. Done. Send me the money to do it, and it'll get done. I'm not going to spend $70 of *my* money on another PS when I can simple isolate the sound that my current one is making. *You* are the one worried about fire. Without the PS vibrations, the noise from everything else still needs to be dealt with, which means I will still be using some kind of sound/vibration insulation, which means I'm still concerned with fire. Regardless, my original concern was a general one. Considering proper sound insulation peaked my curiousity on the matter, but I'm still concerned about a possible house-fire either way. |
#53
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Cheap fire suppression system for a PC?
kony wrote: On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 01:02:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote: kony wrote: On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:36:15 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Ken Maltby wrote: You can also use watercooling to remove all the noise producing elements to another room. That leaves just the hard drive "noise" to manage. I thought the purpose was to improve safety, not worsen it by creating a potential electric shock hazard with a cooling system that hasn't been UL, VDE, or CSA certified. ... then use a ground fault breaker circuit and remember, the water cooling was probably proposed for the low voltage areas, it's not particularly unsafe to short the highest voltage (12V) line directly to ground with coolant, it just doesn't conduct that well. I've had 2 GFIs fail on me, one in the "on" position, and I tripped a GFI while converging a TV with what turned out to be an unisolated isolation transformer (was not a variac). Therefore I'd want better backup than just a GFI. Why not fix the problem instead? Granted, GFI circuits don't last forever, they should be replaced every decade or so. They were plug-in Woods Wire brand GFIs. The first was 1-3 years old when I pressed the test button and noticed it stayed off (power transistor or triac had ruptured and sprayed copper inside the case). The second GFI - the replacement for the first and a very different design - failed in a few days and kept the power on. The replacement for it has been fine. That's why I don't trust GFIs. , the second a few days old. In other words, those tubes aren't going to melt as soon as any of the electrical wiring in the system would. Probably not with a modern processor with built-in thermal limiting, but I'd much rather use almost anything but vinyl, like automotive heater hose. Why? Given the conditions, there is simply no need. It is an engineering issue, while I too like to go overboard with margins, there is no case here where it is of benefit unless the system were exposed to excessive sunlight in which case the vinyl would degrade. There were some photos of a failed homemade water cooling system, probably for a Pentium III or original Athlon, where the vinyl tubing had melted, and the loss of water led to the soldered copper water block falling apart and spilling molten solder over a large area of the motherboard. I doubt any other tubing would have failed nearly as easily. |
#54
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Cheap fire suppression system for a PC?
ShadowTek wrote: On 2009-10-20, Al Dykes wrote: In article , ShadowTek wrote: On 2009-10-20, kony wrote: Swap the PSU fan for a quieter one. Done. Send me the money to do it, and it'll get done. I'm not going to spend $70 of *my* money on another PS when I can simple isolate the sound that my current one is making. *You* are the one worried about fire. Without the PS vibrations, the noise from everything else still needs to be dealt with, which means I will still be using some kind of sound/vibration insulation, which means I'm still concerned with fire. Change fans or mount the fans on shock absorbers: http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/...u=Fanisolators Rubber grommets with thick-shaft screws can be used for isolating hard drives. Special screws are needed to allow tightening (so they don't eventually loosen from vibration) without crushing the grommets. |
#55
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Cheap fire suppression system for a PC?
wrote in message ... Ken Maltby wrote: wrote in message ... You can also use watercooling to remove all the noise producing elements to another room. That leaves just the hard drive "noise" to manage. I thought the purpose was to improve safety, not worsen it by creating a potential electric shock hazard with a cooling system that hasn't been UL, VDE, or CSA certified. The cooling systems I've seen use vinyl hoses that can melt if the processor's heatsink gets hot enough, and I haven't seen any leak detection devices, like those made for preventing washroom flooding. A better solution may be a heatpipe cooling system You obviously have no understanding of how a watercooling system works, or basic physics for that matter. Obviously. The processor and any other component needing active cooling, would have a "waterblock" not a heatsink. And you're not splitting hairs. No I'm not. A waterblock by design never gets hot. A passive heatsink needs to heat up to function. That you do not understand this basic operational factor, just proves my point. That you are unaware of the difference and view my statement as "splitting hairs" further demonstrates your ignorance. The distilled water being pumped through the waterblock(s) and the "hoses" is at most only a few degrees above the ambient temp., of the room with the radiator. The hoses are at the same temp. as the water. Even under worst-case conditions? Any properly designed watercooling system well not allow the computer to operate unless there is power to the pump and radiator fan. You can make up anything, but there are no real world conditions that would lead to hoses filled with water melting, from any heat source within a healthy computer. Most any water pump you can buy will have all the required certifications. You're under the false impression that a device consisting exclusively of UL approved components is itself UL approved. If that's wrong, then explain how a 120VAC device with dozens of UL Y-certified 5nF capacitors soldered in parallel between hot and ground could pass UL standards for electrical leakage. I make no such claim, nor would I expect your misuse of components have any but predictably poor results. The parts nor their certification status can make up for your incompetence. As with most owner built and operated equipment, (like the computer that I am watercooling) the watercooling system is assembled from a number of parts, meeting any number of specifications, but the assembled result (like the rest of the computer) bears no overall certification or stamp of approval. By the way, both the watercooling and the computer function very well and very safely, despite the lack of an overall certification. There is no more "shock hazard" with water cooling than with air cooling. But if I had to choose, I'd rather have a big air leak than almost any water leak into a high voltage supply. What about you? Let's see almost 15 years of watercooling and no leaks "into a high voltage supply", ever. No hot tubes, just slightly warm to the touch. I guess I must be half way competent at plumbing my watercooling systems, just like the many thousands of others all around the world who watercool their systems. It's not that hard to do it right. Luck; Ken |
#56
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Cheap fire suppression system for a PC?
wrote in message ... There were some photos of a failed homemade water cooling system, probably for a Pentium III or original Athlon, where the vinyl tubing had melted, and the loss of water led to the soldered copper water block falling apart and spilling molten solder over a large area of the motherboard. I doubt any other tubing would have failed nearly as easily. Total BS. Post a citation or link to these photos so we can get the whole story. |
#57
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Cheap fire suppression system for a PC?
On 2009-10-20, wrote:
ShadowTek wrote: Without the PS vibrations, the noise from everything else still needs to be dealt with, which means I will still be using some kind of sound/vibration insulation, which means I'm still concerned with fire. Change fans or mount the fans on shock absorbers: http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/...u=Fanisolators Rubber grommets with thick-shaft screws can be used for isolating hard drives. Special screws are needed to allow tightening (so they don't eventually loosen from vibration) without crushing the grommets. Actually, there don't seem to be any annoying vibrations that are noticible from anything other than my power supply. My fans are pretty quiet, and the hard drive cages that came with my case have vibration padding along each side. Every other irriatation is pretty much high-frequency noise. |
#58
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Cheap fire suppression system for a PC?
"ST" == ShadowTek writes:
ST but ST I've got to make space to set one up, as my house is *very* ST tight on space. The one I use is 5.5" high x 7" deep (including the two USB flashdrives sticking out the back) x 1" wide. Should fit in anybody's house. -- I spent thirty-three years in the marines, most of my time being a high-class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism. ~ General Smedley Butler, Marine |
#59
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Cheap fire suppression system for a PC?
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#60
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Cheap fire suppression system for a PC?
Ken Maltby wrote: wrote in message ... There were some photos of a failed homemade water cooling system, probably for a Pentium III or original Athlon, where the vinyl tubing had melted, and the loss of water led to the soldered copper water block falling apart and spilling molten solder over a large area of the motherboard. I doubt any other tubing would have failed nearly as easily. Total BS. Post a citation or link to these photos so we can get the whole story. It was probably 10 years ago, and you shouldn't call people liars, little boy. |
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