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Monitor question



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 16th 21, 04:03 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Larc[_3_]
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Posts: 383
Default Monitor question

On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 20:11:03 -0400, Bill wrote:

| Here is an attempt to clarify my question: Can I use DisplayPort and
| the output audio jacks on my GPU at the same time?
|
| BTW, I was found the Dell 4k Model S2721QS to be more inline with my
| needs and budget. It's supposed to be around $340, but it's not
| currently in stock anywhere. In case, anyone else is looking, at think
| it's the "sweetspot" between price and features (if you don't require
| USB jacks on your monitor).

Sorry I can't answer that audio question.

The last 27" 4K monitor I bought is an LG that I paid a bit less than $300 for at
Amazon. I see the 27UL500-W is now $297, but it may lack some features you want.

Larc
  #12  
Old March 16th 21, 04:43 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default Monitor question

Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:

Here is an attempt to clarify my question: Can I use DisplayPort and
the output audio jacks on my GPU at the same time?



It occurs to me now that the audio jacks are on the mainboard, so this
should be a no-brainer. It's curious how the GPU could even get the
audio--maybe in a different application of the DisplayPort (i.e. in a
different device)...


Modern digital display standards have multiplexed
audio in the stream.

VGA was analog and doesn't have it.

DVI is digital and doesn't have it.

HDMI and DP have it. 8 channel LPCM (check Wikipedia articles
for more details). There are Dolby options but nobody cared.
With 8 channel Linear Pulse Code Modulation, there is
no compression, just 8 channels in plaintext.

Receiving devices (computer monitors with speakers, TV sets,
TV sets with passthru soundbar) receive 8 channel LPCM. They
don't need a license for it. No royalty to pay to Dolby.

You select digital audio in the Windows playback options.
The word "NVidia" might be involved (because we want the muxed
audio to be on the video cable, not RealTek digital via SPDIF or
TOSLink). You'd set the audio model to 2 channel audio,
because the monitor has two speakers, and you want the mixdown,
the head-model, to be used for any audio transforms. Your
source material could be 5.1, and you want the sub signal to
get mixed back into the two speakers, for a fuller sound.

Computer monitor speakers usually suck. And the time I've taken
to write this, is likely wasted. Your regular computer speakers,
hooked to the 1/8" Line Out and friends, likely sounds better,
because you can use ported amplified bookshelf speakers instead.
For example, Skybuck had a 500W amp setup, with ten channels
of Class D amplification, three channels in parallel driving the sub,
seven other channels for the other speakers. Putting the 3W monitor
speakers to shame :-) My setup is quite a bit less than that.

To use the regular computer speakers, you use Analog Line Out
and a setting of 2 channel stereo if you have two speakers. Etc.
Popular audio models are 2.0 (stereo), 2.1 (stereo+sub),
5.1 (four+center+sub), 7.1 (six+center+sub).

If you send computer ---- TVSet --- soundbar, then the audio
model selected in Windows, would be whatever the soundbar model
is. If the soundbar claims to be 5.1, then you'd set Windows to 5.1.
The soundbar is going to sound better than typical LCD monitor speakers.

No matter how you get audio, it's always over-priced. And the
high-powered setups, like the one Skybuck used to have, they
don't necessarily last, because the amp is placed inside the
sub and it tends to "cook" for want of a better word. Even if the
volume isn't turned up, the air inside the sub can be toasty warm.
Amps really belong in their own cabinet (like my home-made one,
it never gets even a little bit warm).

Paul
  #13  
Old March 16th 21, 06:08 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default Monitor question

On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 23:43:51 -0400, Paul
wrote:

You select digital audio in the Windows playback options.
The word "NVidia" might be involved (because we want the muxed
audio to be on the video cable, not RealTek digital via SPDIF or
TOSLink). You'd set the audio model to 2 channel audio,
because the monitor has two speakers, and you want the mixdown,
the head-model, to be used for any audio transforms. Your
source material could be 5.1, and you want the sub signal to
get mixed back into the two speakers, for a fuller sound.

Computer monitor speakers usually suck. And the time I've taken
to write this, is likely wasted. Your regular computer speakers,
hooked to the 1/8" Line Out and friends, likely sounds better,
because you can use ported amplified bookshelf speakers instead.
For example, Skybuck had a 500W amp setup, with ten channels
of Class D amplification, three channels in parallel driving the sub,
seven other channels for the other speakers. Putting the 3W monitor
speakers to shame :-) My setup is quite a bit less than that.


NVida TOSLINK (and Alesis' involvement), the former possibly
superceding beyond 'head-model' and dual-channel mixdown, which
ubiquitously comes at least with inexpensive DAC converter modules for
analogue output (to broadcast streaming and televisions now often
equipped for TOSLINK). For comparative purposes by of course to
soundboards so equipped, as with ASUS and their XONAR line-up.
Although, certainly as a niche market, the DAC's consequent
DSP-algorithm, ancillary components provided, knows no bounds to the
"high-end fidelity" market, if not specialized engineering domain
rebuilding them, or a top-tier of reviews for all the best, most
expensive Coax DACs for equally high-end headphones. I'm merely
bi-amping, if in a fashion rather blending, at 500-watts combined
Class D and Class A/B. Yeppers, nothing cheap about Crown's
XL-(X)00(X) DriveCore series, for some, engineered to blow the socks
off a dance hall, except perhaps for the really decent price of mine
-- the lowest model among, otherwise, a ton crap that tends break far
too easily. A tradeoff, clearly, for upstage $10,000+ Thiel speakers
at obscene efficiency ratings for only the best low-wattage tubed
amps, no less exorbitantly priced. Yet still, at its lowest
denominator of mid/side band stereo imaging, "hybridization for Head
Modeling" for a (hm, decent) DAC, or DAC-s, (in a 1/4-plugged
mixer-unit -- dismissing completely chained DSP intermediary
signal-module software processing -- overall, being then quite up to
and what comes beyond;- "hard amping" was never so spectacular as
compared to and no less uniquely capable of augmenting a latter half
of 20th. c. audio technology that was built to last. (Just without
much personal empathy for Dolby iterations since, though.)
  #14  
Old March 16th 21, 11:05 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_41_]
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Posts: 24
Default Monitor question

Paul wrote:
Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:

Here is an attempt to clarify my question:Â* Can I use DisplayPort and
the output audio jacks on my GPU at the same time?



It occurs to me now that the audio jacks are on the mainboard, so this
should be a no-brainer.Â* It's curious how the GPU could even get the
audio--maybe in a different application of the DisplayPort (i.e. in a
different device)...


Modern digital display standards have multiplexed
audio in the stream.

VGA was analog and doesn't have it.

DVI is digital and doesn't have it.

HDMI and DP have it. 8 channel LPCM (check Wikipedia articles
for more details). There are Dolby options but nobody cared.
With 8 channel Linear Pulse Code Modulation, there is
no compression, just 8 channels in plaintext.

Receiving devices (computer monitors with speakers, TV sets,
TV sets with passthru soundbar) receive 8 channel LPCM. They
don't need a license for it. No royalty to pay to Dolby.

You select digital audio in the Windows playback options.
The word "NVidia" might be involved (because we want the muxed
audio to be on the video cable, not RealTek digital via SPDIF or
TOSLink). You'd set the audio model to 2 channel audio,
because the monitor has two speakers, and you want the mixdown,
the head-model, to be used for any audio transforms. Your
source material could be 5.1, and you want the sub signal to
get mixed back into the two speakers, for a fuller sound.

Computer monitor speakers usually suck. And the time I've taken
to write this, is likely wasted. Your regular computer speakers,
hooked to the 1/8" Line Out and friends, likely sounds better,
because you can use ported amplified bookshelf speakers instead.
For example, Skybuck had a 500W amp setup, with ten channels
of Class D amplification, three channels in parallel driving the sub,
seven other channels for the other speakers. Putting the 3W monitor
speakers to shame :-) My setup is quite a bit less than that.

To use the regular computer speakers, you use Analog Line Out
and a setting of 2 channel stereo if you have two speakers. Etc.
Popular audio models are 2.0 (stereo), 2.1 (stereo+sub),
5.1 (four+center+sub), 7.1 (six+center+sub).

If you sendÂ* computer ---- TVSet --- soundbar, then the audio
model selected in Windows, would be whatever the soundbar model
is. If the soundbar claims to be 5.1, then you'd set Windows to 5.1.
The soundbar is going to sound better than typical LCD monitor speakers.

No matter how you get audio, it's always over-priced. And the
high-powered setups, like the one Skybuck used to have, they
don't necessarily last, because the amp is placed inside the
sub and it tends to "cook" for want of a better word. Even if the
volume isn't turned up, the air inside the sub can be toasty warm.
Amps really belong in their own cabinet (like my home-made one,
it never gets even a little bit warm).

Â*Â* Paul


Logitech stopped making their complex 5.1 systems over 10 years ago I
think, and I got one at their clearance price (around $150). I didn't
realize at the time that it was being discontinued. I learned that that
the reason it was discontinued was that enough people aren't willing to
wire their rooms to accommodate all the speakers. Not being a big bass
fan, I have the (really big) sub-woofer turned down pretty low. I'm
assuming that the amp is in the substantial control panel on my desk, I
just checked and the control panel is warm, and the speakers are
directly wired to it.
If the sub-woofer were to die, I'd still be completely happy with the
set up--to be honest it's way overkill. But when I listen to music, it
fills the room. And you are correct, I have no plans to funnel all of
this audio output into the DisplayPort. When I make my earlier post, I
was in a state of wondering whether I had a choice about that. From
your post, it seems apparent that I do. Now, just to wait for the
monitor I decided on to be in stock somewhere...it turns out folks are
using it (Dell S2721QS) for their game-stations... 3 days ago, I
didn't even know what a DisplayPort was, so this investigation was
educational! There's nothing like "standards" to keep one occupied.

  #15  
Old April 21st 21, 10:21 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_42_]
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Posts: 7
Default Monitor question

On 3/15/2021 12:25 AM, Bill wrote:
I have a Asus Strix 750ti GPU.Â* It has 2GB of onboard video memory and
uses 8GB of shared system memory.Â* According to its specifications, it
can apparently handle 3840x2160 resolution.

I have been happily running a monitor (Dell UltraSharp 2407wfp) at
1900x1200 native resolution. It's got about 12 years on it. I don't
really do computing which pushes the video card harder than casual games.

If I were to upgrade to a 4k monitor (3840x2160 resolution), would I
likely be pleased or unsatisfied with the results?

I thought I would provide an update based on my experience.
I bought a 27" Dell S2721QS 4k monitor about two weeks ago. It worked
fine for almost two weeks, but then it started "blinking" (once every
33-37 seconds). (An aside: What causes that?) Unplugging it seemed to
provide a temporary fix (and I tried various strategies I don't wish to
go into here), but after a few iterations of that I decided I better
take advantage of Dell's 30 days "free return" policy while I had the
opportunity to do so.

That raises a new question. I am back to using my Dell 2407wfp which
uses a"active matrix TFT" LCD, while the new Dell uses IPS LCD.

The 12 year old 24" TFT display seem easily twice as heavy as the new 27
IPS display. I am tempted to say that there is something "warmer" about
it too, sort of like comparing a vinyl record versus an mp3. Doing a
bit of due diligence, I learned that the IPS LCD has advantages in power
consumption, and speed, and viewing angle (and I suspect in
manufacturing). But it seems to me that there is something to like
about the TFT display too, but perhaps it is under-mentioned for the
sake of marketing new products. The price I paid for each monitor was
almost exactly the same, ~$350 (without adjusting for inflation), so in
that sense, the newer one was a bit less expensive.
It seems like all "popular" monitors have gone the way of IPS (or TN).
Does anyone else like TFT monitors? Note: I realize the gamers like TN
monitors for their speed, but I don't have any experience with them, so
I can't comment. I was just curious about the "validity" of the (older)
TFT technology. Or, you could tell me that I am "imagining things", but
I'm not so sure! : ) I don't claim to be any sort of expert, and I
haven't used a lot of different monitors. Cheers!

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  #16  
Old April 21st 21, 04:51 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default Monitor question

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:21:05 -0400, Bill wrote:

The reviews vary, but are nonetheless a good point to start.
Longevity, as broken, quickly tends level all and anything else,
including non-replacement (on a 32" Sceptre I bought from Wallymart)
having died, to the day, upon an expired replacement warranty.
(Obviously, a firmware Wallymart issue.) Text quality. Gamers own
it, although there may be an odd mention of someone who does read and
possibly writes. Then there's a notion of coincidence, a given
monitor selection and candidate just may provide from a clue, what is
to be expected upon searching for overlap among like or exact brands
offered in a retail storefront if available;- The empirical
consideration of veracity: should one buy it elsewhere, maybe a less
costly consideration will follow consistency, to be equal? I favor
text, to suspect there's not much between verifying an impression my
32" Westinghouse is indeed as atrocious as it looks. Yet, does that
entertain a notion, that by throwing multiples more money, over
$100/US I paid for this 32" monitor, new and boxed, will reveal
correspondence to a base appreciation black-&-white text then will
supercede in the world of first-person gaming killers? Or might I let
them sway me, say were a 32" $600 (popular gaming) monitor reduced to
perhaps an additional $50 more than mine, sight unseen on a daring
venture gamble? I do like seeing how the so-called pro-monitor still
looks back to consider itself a computer component, likely to have
the old SVGA connector, whereas a flatpanel Tee-Vee flatout will not.
Dares, to me, are for whether if at all better than to expect
disillusionment for not having thoroughly studied options among
overriding concerns;- probably, foremost and well beyond a 30-day
replacement warranty: Mine are fully 5-years, although a substitute
means anything else, among all brand monitors, used-on-used not to
discount additionally the one-timer claim. Text I cannot see apart
from going into a storefront. The herd-immunity brandmakes, standard
one-year factory warranty and readily identifiable for the most among
reviews, may be my next replacement. Where HP or Dell may tend
slightly above, (they do seem to attract more attention on periodic
special sales), if not quite so commodious to bulked-out reviews. But
that's where I said I'd start and, time permitted my monitor doesn't
break this very second, to consider on a first strike-point into
filtering for adaptability in those review numbers. Dells seldom
show up in the lowest of such, as do ACER/ASUS 32", one of which
seemed the better not too long ago, last I looked over a minimum
display size I've seen approaching $200.
  #17  
Old April 21st 21, 10:25 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_42_]
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Posts: 7
Default Monitor question

On 4/21/2021 11:51 AM, Flasherly wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:21:05 -0400, Bill wrote:

The reviews vary, but are nonetheless a good point to start.

The spent a lot of time reviewing. The monitor I mentioned was
described, at least at one very extensive monitor-benchmarking website,
as best in its class for my intended usage (mostly text). Since it
offered the highest brightness (~350 candlepower), and since I have
owned no other monitors other than ones made my Dell (i.e. I trusted
them), I put it at the top of my list. A comparable one, probably
without the "Dell Monitor Manager" software, which changes the monitor
mode based of the application one is looking at, is apparently the
LG-XXX850.

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  #18  
Old April 21st 21, 11:04 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default Monitor question

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:25:52 -0400, Bill wrote:

The reviews vary, but are nonetheless a good point to start.

The spent a lot of time reviewing. The monitor I mentioned was
described, at least at one very extensive monitor-benchmarking website,
as best in its class for my intended usage (mostly text). Since it
offered the highest brightness (~350 candlepower), and since I have
owned no other monitors other than ones made my Dell (i.e. I trusted
them), I put it at the top of my list. A comparable one, probably
without the "Dell Monitor Manager" software, which changes the monitor
mode based of the application one is looking at, is apparently the
LG-XXX850.


Brightness as a text factor, that sounds useful to keep in mind even
if only next time changing settings with this Westinghouse. Especially
with time you've run with Dells, that well may be unacceptability a
dropping-point to consider for likelihood among other offerings.

This was a last minute replacement on a very bad Sceptre experience.

I'd had earlier along a very nice "text-grade" monitor, no doubt
brighter. A replacement, actually, as the first did fail thankfully
within a year, perhaps refurbished or new on replacement model with
the following year's new model number. Heavy as a cow for a flatpanel
but it did run without issue for something along 15 years. As in
smoothly, acceptable and an enjoyable experience -- what you mentioned
about blinking subsequently after usage would certain blow at my cool.

A monitor is the only thing besides, I do turn off on everything else
on computers always on. But leaving a monitor on for say two weeks
initial reliability testing may not help 9 months down the road if it
craps out, which was my case prior to the 15-yr replacement model.

Would you believe, and that was a monster of 32" for that old, tech,
after I'd talked to them had me on the floor with the monitor face
down and back removed replacing a boxful of swapout parts they sent
with a thought that might initially solve the issue -- half the lower
panel went into some sort of fixed kaleidoscopic pixelization, where
as the top half displayed itself normally. Something less than
encouraging to think to try on an old flyback transformer wrapped
around the backside yoke of a CRT. ;
  #19  
Old April 22nd 21, 01:57 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_42_]
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Posts: 7
Default Monitor question

On 4/21/2021 6:04 PM, Flasherly wrote:
As in
smoothly, acceptable and an enjoyable experience -- what you mentioned
about blinking subsequently after usage would certain blow at my cool.


Yes, it was temporarily "fixable" by powering down and restarting, but
then you have the anticipation of when it is going to blink again.
It reminded me of when my wireless router "died", behaving more or less
the same way, but with only the first half of a blink... Cheers.

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  #20  
Old April 22nd 21, 02:13 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_42_]
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Posts: 7
Default Monitor question

On 4/21/2021 8:57 PM, Bill wrote:
On 4/21/2021 6:04 PM, Flasherly wrote:
As in
smoothly, acceptable and an enjoyable experience -- what you mentioned
about blinking subsequently after usage would certain blow at my cool.


One other observation. In my brief search, I just noticed that the
(newer?) "touchscreen" LCD monitors are using "active matrix TFT"
technology. As far as older monitors with TFT technology, it appears
to be a "buyers market"... As you mentioned, gamers call the shots!

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