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#11
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problem with audio - question
Yes wrote:
Thank you. I was falling asleep when I read your post, so am just now responding when I can be more coherent :-) If I understand you right, then the problem lies with the pc hardware. When I built this pc, I went with a minimalist build. I chose the mobo because of the add-on graphics chip and audio capability. I could use an HDMI cable to connect the pc to my TV and use the TV (with its built-in speakers) to watch stuff. As reported, the TV sounds fine and the images displayed look good. Nor does the display of the video from the pc on the TV show any problems like you mentioned. I'm trying to understand my options at this point with the proviso that I want to be able to listen to the content, not just watch it :-) It seems they a 1. replace the mobo itself 2. replace the pc build with perhaps a pre-built desktop or laptop 3. work around the existing problem on the mobo by adding a discrete graphics card If I try option 3, is that just wishful thinking on my part? I'm not very interested in it if all it means is that I'm just kicking the can down the road wasting my time and money on something that will resurface. John Asus B150-M-A https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboa...Desk_Download/ VGA Version 21.20.16.4542 2016/12/14 236.15 MBytes Intel_Graphics_Accelerator_Driver support win7_64/Win8.1_64/Win10_64 That has INTCDAud in it, the digital audio for "Intel GPU HDMI sound". You might also want to test the TV set, with a known-working HDMI source. Say, a BD settop player with HDMI output, could be used to test the TV Audio. And that's if you're using the HDMI connector on the motherboard I/O plate area. ******* The PC I'm on here, has a $20 pair of stereo computer speakers (115VAC powered), rocking 2W of audio output. That's plugged into the green connector on the back of the PC. And that has provided years of faithful service (once I took it apart and repaired a cold solder joint on the speaker PCB). My other PC, has a home-made amp (rocking about 2W of usable power), and a pair of bookshelf speakers for output. No fancy HDMI for me. No sound bar. No Dolby ATMOS. Paul |
#12
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problem with audio - question
Paul wrote:
Yes wrote: Steve Hough wrote: Paul was thinking very hard : Yes wrote: I have an Asus B150-M-A mobo with an integrated graphics chip and Realtek ALC887 codec. I connect it via HDMI cable to my living room TV when I want to use the pc. It's worked very well for my needs (web surfing and anime videos). Today, the audio stopped working. The videos works. At first I was thinking buy a cheap sound card because the current problem is no sound, but I ran across a comment while googling that indicated the problem will actually involve the on-board graphics chip because that's the chip that combines the audio and video signals to the TV via HDMI. Is this correct? When everything is doee, I just want to get back to the way things were before - use the pc to surf and watch stuff and display it using the TV as my monitor like I've been doing. Obviously, buying a new mobo might solve my problem, but would buying a video card or a sound card fix my problem? Thanks, John It's a good thing you caught that. Analog sound comes from a different place than digital sound. Examples of analog sound sources (lime green colored 1/8" jack) 1) I/O plate lime green - HDAudio chip on motherboard - actual damage (unlikely) ? replace motherboard 2) Faceplate, audio soundcard - Audio chip on soundcard - actual damage (unlikely) ? replace plugin soundcard 3) USB audio dongle (two jack) - Audio chip inside dongle - actual damage (unlikely) ? replace dongle First generation digital sound, ran at 6mbit/sec over a coaxial cable. It was called S'PDIF. It carried stereo in perhaps 24bit, or could carry AC3 5.1 compressed (picked right off a movie DVD). The copper version of S'PDIF used the coax cable, 1 volt amplitude, transformer isolated (to avoid ground differences when cabling up). The optical version was called TOSLink, used a red LED lightsource, and cheap dental plastic fiber cable. S'PDIF could come from (1) and use a stubby I/O plate addon or be a jack on the PC. I don't know if having it on (2) or (3) was common. On motherboards, a square connector with a rubber cover can be a TOSLink digital coming from (1). Then came HDMI audio. At first, HDMI was little better than a different connector on DVI. If you had an old enough computer, it wasn't really HDMI, and it also didn't have audio as a result. DVI doesn't have audio. HDMI made by bodging a DVI signal, doesn't have audio capability either. Then we had HDMI, and it still didn't have audio. But at least the cable clock went from 165MHz max DVI clock to 330MHz HDMI clock. It was "real" HDMI only in the sense that it had broken its bonds and limits with DVI. The first digital audio on HDMI was probably on video cards. They put an S'PDIF connector (!) on the top edge of NVidia cards for example. The cable might have been a couple pins. And a wire went to the S'PDIF three pin or so, mobo header connector. That was a kind of "passthru audio", digital in form. The 6mbit/sec S'PDIF was then converted into 7.1 LPCM (= no compression) on HDMI. The Windows sound would make a mention of "digital" and sometimes "AMD, NVidia, Intel" or similar branding. Intel having killed off a lot of other potential mobo video sources. The last several standards versions of HDMI, they're being delivered right from the video card, without "passthru". No info is available on the CODEC logic block in the GPU on the video card. One version used a RealTek driver, implying Realtek sold some IP (intellectual property) for an HDAudio sound chip for inclusion in the GPU. As I don't think a 48-pin HDAudio chip has been spotted on the video card. ******* Now, your audio has flown the coop, because of a software issue. It means some service has taken a ****. Or, perhaps you removed a service responsible for "Audio Endpoint" as instructed by the blackviper.com website. I've had to scrounge through Google before, to find mention of what service that is, but I didn't keep notes. If you've "blackvipered" this setup, then now is a good time to mention it :-) I won't give you a lot of hell for this, as it's easy to be tricked into doing that stuff based on Internet info. Blackviper site, tells you how to disable a lot of services (I suppose, a topic popular with rabid gamers with 32GB machines, out to save 3 bytes by turning off a service). Now, all that guff I typed out in the first section above, will come in handy. This article shows how to select and set a "Default" audio source in Windows 10. https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html ASUS VE278 (NVidia High Definition Audio) Well, I'm not sure exactly that what one is :-) I looked it up, and that's the name of an LCD monitor with speakers in it. So that HDMI port gained the name of the monitor when the monitor got plugged in. Neat. You can reset the audio setting to make your named monitor (the TV set), the output for sound if you want. That would be the first step, before the panic sets in. No need (yet) to be buying hardware :-) If the video card outputs, HDMI connectors, are not mentioned at all, then I'd check Device Manager (devmgmt.msc) and see see if any yellow marks are present, indicating a driver got updated by Microsoft and is no longer loading properly. 1) Check settings. Even setting a volume to zero somewhere can kill sound. Check that a mute button hasn't been pressed (mute = 0 volume), or that the volume dial or slider is set to zero. Make sure the Default audio output is set to the TV. Check Device Manager for yellow marks. Note any code (Code 10, Code 22 etc). You can even go into Device Manager and select Disable for a piece of hardware, and it won't look "damaged" at all. That's why you have to check stuff in there. 2) Think about any BlackVipering you've been doing. The turning off of (unrelated!) services can kill audio. I didn't believe that was possible, until someone managed to do it. The audio service did not list the Dependency in the Dependency tab. And that is when I first learned that the Dependency tab is not computed by software, but is statically entered by (mistake making) humans at MSFT. 3) You would need to spend considerable time working on (1) and (2), before concluding it was hardware. And in particular, it's highly highly unlikely that a logic block in the GPU blew up. If the computer image on the TV screen was a mess, it would be easy to see how decoding audio from that stream could be difficult. Since you make no mention of substandard or destroyed video quality, then that's part of the highly highly unlikely part. The sound just can't fail. Maybe if the speaker amp blew out on the TV set :-) ... Paul Or, he could try reinstalling the audio drivers and/or audio codecs. Tried that after posting, but ran into a dead end. Googling, the recommendations were to go to device manager and find the device. I couldn't find any device underneath sound or the other category involving sound/video. Next, ran the Hardware Wizard (reached via Windows 10 options underneath Device Manager). The wizard failed to find any 'new' hardware. Last thing I did last night was to go to RealTek's web site, d/l the most current driver they had for my O/S installed it and rebooted. That s/w reported a successful install, but even after rebooting I still had the same problem - I could watch something but not hear anything. My testing involved playing a YouTube video on my pc to see what happened. Video worked but no sound. I used my TV (Roku TV) - it doubles as the monitor and audio for my pc - to find that same video and play it. Using the Roku TV, the YouTube video played and I could listen to audio of the video. The TV showed no problems playing the A/V of the YouTube video. So I concluded that the problem lies with my pc and not affected by the Roku TV. I suppose the last ditch effort I could make would be to install some version of linux to see if it could fix my problem. If so, I guess I could then just re-install Windows 10 if the audio resumed working under linux. Not particularly enamored doing that :-( John If the audio is traveling over the HDMI cable, a GPU is driving that, and you need the audio driver inside the GPU driver package to restore sound over HDMI. Here is the picture again. https://i.postimg.cc/brDwSqjx/audio-driver.gif See the "nvhda.inf" ? Search for that on your PC, right click it, select "Install" from the top of the right-click menu. I don't know what drives your HDMI cable as a GPU. That example picture is for my plugin NVidia video card. It could even be Intel video for that matter (a GPU inside the CPU package), and then you need an Intel driver for the HDMI cable and the audio on it. ******* Intel digital audio example ******* https://www.catalog.update.microsoft...086%26DEV_2805 Intel Corporation - MEDIA - 4/26/2018 12:00:00 AM - 6.16.0.3208 Windows 10, version 1809 and later, Servicing Drivers Drivers (Sound) 4/25/2018 6.16.0.3208 230 KB And the file has "intcdaud" in the name, which should likely be parsed as stock ticker INTC Digital Audio. It's a CAB file. I like to open these downloads with 7ZIP from www.7-zip.org and do "Extract" into the nearest convenient empty folder. ******* Intel digital audio example ******* Since I don't know exactly what I'm dealing with, these will remain for the moment, "examples". And don't switch to Linux to test this. Of course it's going to work. Then you have to climb back on your horse and install Windows 10 again. This is just "broken software", and sooner or later, you're going to fix it, right ? Think positive. I've been defeated by drivers before. I had to reinstall Win2K once, because I didn't practice "good hygiene" with my video drivers. I had Matrox, NVidia, and ATI drivers in the machine at the same time. And AGP Texture acceleration stopped working, my games were broke. And I tried every "cleaner" on the face of the earth, and could not get it fixed. That required a reinstall, to make sure no remnants of any evil spirits were left in the machine :-) So, yeah, sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you. Right now, you're dealing with a rabbit, not a bear. Paul Sorry for the delay. Despite your advice, I made a bootable Linux Mint USB to test if my audio problem was due to a problem on the hardware. After booting my pc into linux, I played some videos from YouTube and another source. Both audio and video worked without a hitch, so I conclude that my problem is solely related to software and not to hardware. John |
#13
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problem with audio - question
Yes presented the following explanation :
Paul wrote: Yes wrote: I have an Asus B150-M-A mobo with an integrated graphics chip and Realtek ALC887 codec. I connect it via HDMI cable to my living room TV when I want to use the pc. It's worked very well for my needs (web surfing and anime videos). Today, the audio stopped working. The videos works. At first I was thinking buy a cheap sound card because the current problem is no sound, but I ran across a comment while googling that indicated the problem will actually involve the on-board graphics chip because that's the chip that combines the audio and video signals to the TV via HDMI. Is this correct? When everything is doee, I just want to get back to the way things were before - use the pc to surf and watch stuff and display it using the TV as my monitor like I've been doing. Obviously, buying a new mobo might solve my problem, but would buying a video card or a sound card fix my problem? Thanks, John It's a good thing you caught that. Analog sound comes from a different place than digital sound. Examples of analog sound sources (lime green colored 1/8" jack) 1) I/O plate lime green - HDAudio chip on motherboard - actual damage (unlikely) ? replace motherboard 2) Faceplate, audio soundcard - Audio chip on soundcard - actual damage (unlikely) ? replace plugin soundcard 3) USB audio dongle (two jack) - Audio chip inside dongle - actual damage (unlikely) ? replace dongle First generation digital sound, ran at 6mbit/sec over a coaxial cable. It was called S'PDIF. It carried stereo in perhaps 24bit, or could carry AC3 5.1 compressed (picked right off a movie DVD). The copper version of S'PDIF used the coax cable, 1 volt amplitude, transformer isolated (to avoid ground differences when cabling up). The optical version was called TOSLink, used a red LED lightsource, and cheap dental plastic fiber cable. S'PDIF could come from (1) and use a stubby I/O plate addon or be a jack on the PC. I don't know if having it on (2) or (3) was common. On motherboards, a square connector with a rubber cover can be a TOSLink digital coming from (1). Then came HDMI audio. At first, HDMI was little better than a different connector on DVI. If you had an old enough computer, it wasn't really HDMI, and it also didn't have audio as a result. DVI doesn't have audio. HDMI made by bodging a DVI signal, doesn't have audio capability either. Then we had HDMI, and it still didn't have audio. But at least the cable clock went from 165MHz max DVI clock to 330MHz HDMI clock. It was "real" HDMI only in the sense that it had broken its bonds and limits with DVI. The first digital audio on HDMI was probably on video cards. They put an S'PDIF connector (!) on the top edge of NVidia cards for example. The cable might have been a couple pins. And a wire went to the S'PDIF three pin or so, mobo header connector. That was a kind of "passthru audio", digital in form. The 6mbit/sec S'PDIF was then converted into 7.1 LPCM (= no compression) on HDMI. The Windows sound would make a mention of "digital" and sometimes "AMD, NVidia, Intel" or similar branding. Intel having killed off a lot of other potential mobo video sources. The last several standards versions of HDMI, they're being delivered right from the video card, without "passthru". No info is available on the CODEC logic block in the GPU on the video card. One version used a RealTek driver, implying Realtek sold some IP (intellectual property) for an HDAudio sound chip for inclusion in the GPU. As I don't think a 48-pin HDAudio chip has been spotted on the video card. ******* Now, your audio has flown the coop, because of a software issue. It means some service has taken a ****. Or, perhaps you removed a service responsible for "Audio Endpoint" as instructed by the blackviper.com website. I've had to scrounge through Google before, to find mention of what service that is, but I didn't keep notes. If you've "blackvipered" this setup, then now is a good time to mention it :-) I won't give you a lot of hell for this, as it's easy to be tricked into doing that stuff based on Internet info. Blackviper site, tells you how to disable a lot of services (I suppose, a topic popular with rabid gamers with 32GB machines, out to save 3 bytes by turning off a service). Now, all that guff I typed out in the first section above, will come in handy. This article shows how to select and set a "Default" audio source in Windows 10. https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html ASUS VE278 (NVidia High Definition Audio) Well, I'm not sure exactly that what one is :-) I looked it up, and that's the name of an LCD monitor with speakers in it. So that HDMI port gained the name of the monitor when the monitor got plugged in. Neat. You can reset the audio setting to make your named monitor (the TV set), the output for sound if you want. That would be the first step, before the panic sets in. No need (yet) to be buying hardware :-) If the video card outputs, HDMI connectors, are not mentioned at all, then I'd check Device Manager (devmgmt.msc) and see see if any yellow marks are present, indicating a driver got updated by Microsoft and is no longer loading properly. 1) Check settings. Even setting a volume to zero somewhere can kill sound. Check that a mute button hasn't been pressed (mute = 0 volume), or that the volume dial or slider is set to zero. Make sure the Default audio output is set to the TV. Check Device Manager for yellow marks. Note any code (Code 10, Code 22 etc). You can even go into Device Manager and select Disable for a piece of hardware, and it won't look "damaged" at all. That's why you have to check stuff in there. 2) Think about any BlackVipering you've been doing. The turning off of (unrelated!) services can kill audio. I didn't believe that was possible, until someone managed to do it. The audio service did not list the Dependency in the Dependency tab. And that is when I first learned that the Dependency tab is not computed by software, but is statically entered by (mistake making) humans at MSFT. 3) You would need to spend considerable time working on (1) and (2), before concluding it was hardware. And in particular, it's highly highly unlikely that a logic block in the GPU blew up. If the computer image on the TV screen was a mess, it would be easy to see how decoding audio from that stream could be difficult. Since you make no mention of substandard or destroyed video quality, then that's part of the highly highly unlikely part. The sound just can't fail. Maybe if the speaker amp blew out on the TV set :-) ... Paul Thank you. I was falling asleep when I read your post, so am just now responding when I can be more coherent :-) If I understand you right, then the problem lies with the pc hardware. When I built this pc, I went with a minimalist build. I chose the mobo because of the add-on graphics chip and audio capability. I could use an HDMI cable to connect the pc to my TV and use the TV (with its built-in speakers) to watch stuff. As reported, the TV sounds fine and the images displayed look good. Nor does the display of the video from the pc on the TV show any problems like you mentioned. I'm trying to understand my options at this point with the proviso that I want to be able to listen to the content, not just watch it :-) It seems they a 1. replace the mobo itself 2. replace the pc build with perhaps a pre-built desktop or laptop 3. work around the existing problem on the mobo by adding a discrete graphics card If I try option 3, is that just wishful thinking on my part? I'm not very interested in it if all it means is that I'm just kicking the can down the road wasting my time and money on something that will resurface. John But have you actually tried removing and reinstalling the audio drivers? Try installing new audio codecs. In the windows sound applet, is the computer switched to send audio to your TV? |
#14
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problem with audio - question
On 14/11/2020 00:58, Yes wrote:
so I conclude that my problem is solely related to software and not to hardware. John Does clicking on the Speaker Icon show a Volume slider? If Volume slider IS shown, then RIGHT-click the Speaker icon and click 'Open Sound settings'. In 'Sound Settings' check that you have the correct Sound Output selected (perhaps try each Output option in turn). |
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