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nvraid error Win10



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 6th 16, 01:06 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm X[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 91
Default nvraid error Win10

Hi,

I've encountered "nvraid error" in my (hopefully fixable) install of Win10
ultimate on my desktop. Years ago I set up a 3 drive RAID 0 storage array
with three partitions.. Fortunately, I can still boot from the partition
with Visa-32 installed. Using checkdisk it has discovered may errors on the
Win10 partition. My problem is well known. I need to install more software.
An OS that corrupts its own storage is not usable until the problem, is
fixed.



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
  #2  
Old July 6th 16, 09:11 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default nvraid error Win10

Norm X wrote:
Hi,

I've encountered "nvraid error" in my (hopefully fixable) install of Win10
ultimate on my desktop. Years ago I set up a 3 drive RAID 0 storage array
with three partitions.. Fortunately, I can still boot from the partition
with Visa-32 installed. Using checkdisk it has discovered may errors on the
Win10 partition. My problem is well known. I need to install more software.
An OS that corrupts its own storage is not usable until the problem, is
fixed.


There are only two trim levels of consumer Windows 10.
There are five trim levels of Windows7 SP1 qualifying
for an upgrade. There is a mapping between the two sets.
The result of the Win10 upgrade will not have the
word "Ultimate" in the final outcome. This is a subset
of the map.

Win7 Ultimate -- Win10 Professional
Win7 Home Premium -- Win10 Home

There isn't a business case, for NVidia to be
making Windows 10 Southbridge drivers. They've been shut out
of the chipset business, like VIA was. Both AMD and Intel
have in-house chipsets. Delivering Windows 10 drivers
would not be part of NVidia's business strategy. They
still make things other than GPUs, there will still
be SATA ports on some of their products, but NVRAID
would be long-in-the-tooth and not for them. They are
more likely now, to be using AHCI drivers, and usually
a standard platform driver handles that case.

A Win10 RAID driver, could be a Win7 or Win8 driver
of some sort. And there are subtle changes to the
driver model and stack. So it's not a given you can
transfer a driver like that, with zero impact.

So why would a person use 3-drive NVRAID RAID0 as starting
materials for a Win10 upgrade ?

And why would a person start a Windows 10 install, without
doing a full backup of the target storage volume ? That
three drive RAID, as corrupted as it is right now,
should be available for restore from your external
USB drive.

Why would you even install Windows 10 ? It's not
like it has any inherent advantages. Windows 7 has
fewer restrictions in places.

If you did a backup, it might even work
when restored to a single hard drive. It would require
setting the re-arm registry entry, for the driver
of choice (like, AHCI). You would re-arm as many
drivers as there are possible outcomes. You could even
set the re-arm, shut down, boot a Macrium Reflect Free
backup CD, do the backup of the OS with the re-arm set,
and then start the Windows 10 upgrade afterward. Knowing
that you had a logical volume in the can for later, ready
to go.

"My problem is well known" = should have done backup.

That's the well-known part. As good as that installer
is, "**** happens".

On my Win7 laptop, my battery life has been cut in
half with Win10 on it, so it cannot stay there.
Expect the unexpected. The video driver is an orphan.
My GPU, "unsupported". Yes, there is an image on the
screen. Ah, wonderful. This is why we test, and is
a normal outcome. In fact, in the house right now,
I have zero video cards that are "Win10 actively
supported". And my last computer build with all
new components, was fall 2015! And the video card is
already gone out of support. Yes, Windows 10, wonderful.

Paul
  #3  
Old July 10th 16, 04:21 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm X
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 111
Default nvraid error Win10

I've encountered "nvraid error" in my (hopefully fixable) install of Win10
ultimate on my desktop. Years ago I set up a 3 drive RAID 0 storage array
with three partitions.. Fortunately, I can still boot from the partition
with Visa-32 installed. Using checkdisk it has discovered may errors on the
Win10 partition. My problem is well known. I need to install more software.
An OS that corrupts its own storage is not usable until the problem, is
fixed.


Whoops, my bad. After 8 years, I remembered how this PC was constructed.
So, I removed the HD6450 GPU, started a new Win10 install on a partition
that I saved elsewhere. This was my third attempt to make a new free
install of Win10, before July 29. A 3 drive RAID 0 storage array is a
construct from hardware(3 hdd), nVidia firmware, and nVidia software.
Over years the nVidia software was not preserved by Windows updates. I
tested the three partitions and only the Vista-32-U has enough nVidia
software to be safe to use a 3 drive RAID 0 storage array. Therefor to
unable one more (permanent) installation Win10, I need to purchase a new
single drive to use for install.

Please someone make a suggestion? The RAID array was made from three
Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm, ST250310AS with a listed Avg. Sequential
Mixed IO Speed 59.8MB/s

It is eight years later. Please suggests a SATA model with 1.0 terabyte
and 3 or 4 times that data rate?

Thanks in advance.
  #4  
Old July 10th 16, 04:44 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm X
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 111
Default nvraid error Win10

On 2016-07-06 1:11 AM, Paul wrote:
Norm X wrote:
Hi,

I've encountered "nvraid error" in my (hopefully fixable) install of
Win10 ultimate on my desktop. Years ago I set up a 3 drive RAID 0
storage array with three partitions.. Fortunately, I can still boot
from the partition with Visa-32 installed. Using checkdisk it has
discovered may errors on the Win10 partition. My problem is well
known. I need to install more software. An OS that corrupts its own
storage is not usable until the problem, is fixed.


There are only two trim levels of consumer Windows 10.
There are five trim levels of Windows7 SP1 qualifying
for an upgrade. There is a mapping between the two sets.
The result of the Win10 upgrade will not have the
word "Ultimate" in the final outcome. This is a subset
of the map.

Win7 Ultimate -- Win10 Professional
Win7 Home Premium -- Win10 Home

There isn't a business case, for NVidia to be
making Windows 10 Southbridge drivers. They've been shut out
of the chipset business, like VIA was. Both AMD and Intel
have in-house chipsets. Delivering Windows 10 drivers
would not be part of NVidia's business strategy. They
still make things other than GPUs, there will still
be SATA ports on some of their products, but NVRAID
would be long-in-the-tooth and not for them. They are
more likely now, to be using AHCI drivers, and usually
a standard platform driver handles that case.

A Win10 RAID driver, could be a Win7 or Win8 driver
of some sort. And there are subtle changes to the
driver model and stack. So it's not a given you can
transfer a driver like that, with zero impact.

So why would a person use 3-drive NVRAID RAID0 as starting
materials for a Win10 upgrade ?

And why would a person start a Windows 10 install, without
doing a full backup of the target storage volume ? That
three drive RAID, as corrupted as it is right now,
should be available for restore from your external
USB drive.

Why would you even install Windows 10 ? It's not
like it has any inherent advantages. Windows 7 has
fewer restrictions in places.

If you did a backup, it might even work
when restored to a single hard drive. It would require
setting the re-arm registry entry, for the driver
of choice (like, AHCI). You would re-arm as many
drivers as there are possible outcomes. You could even
set the re-arm, shut down, boot a Macrium Reflect Free
backup CD, do the backup of the OS with the re-arm set,
and then start the Windows 10 upgrade afterward. Knowing
that you had a logical volume in the can for later, ready
to go.

"My problem is well known" = should have done backup.

That's the well-known part. As good as that installer
is, "**** happens".

On my Win7 laptop, my battery life has been cut in
half with Win10 on it, so it cannot stay there.
Expect the unexpected. The video driver is an orphan.
My GPU, "unsupported". Yes, there is an image on the
screen. Ah, wonderful. This is why we test, and is
a normal outcome. In fact, in the house right now,
I have zero video cards that are "Win10 actively
supported". And my last computer build with all
new components, was fall 2015! And the video card is
already gone out of support. Yes, Windows 10, wonderful.

Paul


The reason this upgrade is still viable is because I may be eligible for
a "free win10 upgrade" for only to price of a new drive.

It is amazing how quick this error turned up. After an upgrade I check
Event Viewer everyday. On day there no such errors. Then the next day a
"nvraid error" was generated many time per second, so that partition was
no longer usable.
  #5  
Old July 10th 16, 06:52 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default nvraid error Win10

Norm X wrote:
I've encountered "nvraid error" in my (hopefully fixable) install of
Win10
ultimate on my desktop. Years ago I set up a 3 drive RAID 0 storage array
with three partitions.. Fortunately, I can still boot from the partition
with Visa-32 installed. Using checkdisk it has discovered may errors
on the
Win10 partition. My problem is well known. I need to install more
software.
An OS that corrupts its own storage is not usable until the problem, is
fixed.


Whoops, my bad. After 8 years, I remembered how this PC was constructed.
So, I removed the HD6450 GPU, started a new Win10 install on a partition
that I saved elsewhere. This was my third attempt to make a new free
install of Win10, before July 29. A 3 drive RAID 0 storage array is a
construct from hardware(3 hdd), nVidia firmware, and nVidia software.
Over years the nVidia software was not preserved by Windows updates. I
tested the three partitions and only the Vista-32-U has enough nVidia
software to be safe to use a 3 drive RAID 0 storage array. Therefor to
unable one more (permanent) installation Win10, I need to purchase a new
single drive to use for install.

Please someone make a suggestion? The RAID array was made from three
Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm, ST250310AS with a listed Avg. Sequential
Mixed IO Speed 59.8MB/s

It is eight years later. Please suggests a SATA model with 1.0 terabyte
and 3 or 4 times that data rate?

Thanks in advance.


Well, Robert ran off a benchmark this morning.
This is a ST1000DM003. Bandwidth at the start of the
drive is 208MB/sec or so. Since the drive could have
been on a SATA II motherboard port, the tops could be clipped
off the peaks on the left. It doesn't really run all that
much faster than SATA II. Only a hair faster.

https://s32.postimg.org/mu5q1s3zp/example.jpg

It's $52 at the moment.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148840

On sequential, you cannot go too much faster than that. More
impressive, is Seagate makes a 6TB drive that runs at the
same rates.

Paul
  #6  
Old July 11th 16, 01:13 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm X
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 111
Default nvraid error Win10

On 2016-07-10 10:52 AM, Paul wrote:
Norm X wrote:
I've encountered "nvraid error" in my (hopefully fixable) install of
Win10
ultimate on my desktop. Years ago I set up a 3 drive RAID 0 storage
array
with three partitions.. Fortunately, I can still boot from the partition
with Visa-32 installed. Using checkdisk it has discovered may errors
on the
Win10 partition. My problem is well known. I need to install more
software.
An OS that corrupts its own storage is not usable until the problem, is
fixed.


Whoops, my bad. After 8 years, I remembered how this PC was
constructed. So, I removed the HD6450 GPU, started a new Win10 install
on a partition that I saved elsewhere. This was my third attempt to
make a new free install of Win10, before July 29. A 3 drive RAID 0
storage array is a construct from hardware(3 hdd), nVidia firmware,
and nVidia software. Over years the nVidia software was not preserved
by Windows updates. I tested the three partitions and only the
Vista-32-U has enough nVidia software to be safe to use a 3 drive RAID
0 storage array. Therefor to unable one more (permanent) installation
Win10, I need to purchase a new single drive to use for install.

Please someone make a suggestion? The RAID array was made from three
Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm, ST250310AS with a listed Avg. Sequential
Mixed IO Speed 59.8MB/s

It is eight years later. Please suggests a SATA model with 1.0
terabyte and 3 or 4 times that data rate?

Thanks in advance.


Well, Robert ran off a benchmark this morning.
This is a ST1000DM003. Bandwidth at the start of the
drive is 208MB/sec or so. Since the drive could have
been on a SATA II motherboard port, the tops could be clipped
off the peaks on the left. It doesn't really run all that
much faster than SATA II. Only a hair faster.

https://s32.postimg.org/mu5q1s3zp/example.jpg

It's $52 at the moment.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148840

On sequential, you cannot go too much faster than that. More
impressive, is Seagate makes a 6TB drive that runs at the
same rates.

Paul


Thanks Paul, I just bought a 1.0 terabyte Seagate supposedly at 6 GB
speed. I brought it home to try to reconstruct my PC. The Win10 DVD said
there were problems with the new HDD. PMagic reports only 7.5 GB size
30.0 MB used and 0 free. And PMagic can do nothing.

AT startup of the install, I told it where to look for some nVidia
devices drivers. Maybe I need to download something from Seagate? But where.

  #7  
Old July 11th 16, 10:56 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default nvraid error Win10

Norm X wrote:
On 2016-07-10 10:52 AM, Paul wrote:
Norm X wrote:
I've encountered "nvraid error" in my (hopefully fixable) install of
Win10
ultimate on my desktop. Years ago I set up a 3 drive RAID 0 storage
array
with three partitions.. Fortunately, I can still boot from the
partition
with Visa-32 installed. Using checkdisk it has discovered may errors
on the
Win10 partition. My problem is well known. I need to install more
software.
An OS that corrupts its own storage is not usable until the problem, is
fixed.

Whoops, my bad. After 8 years, I remembered how this PC was
constructed. So, I removed the HD6450 GPU, started a new Win10 install
on a partition that I saved elsewhere. This was my third attempt to
make a new free install of Win10, before July 29. A 3 drive RAID 0
storage array is a construct from hardware(3 hdd), nVidia firmware,
and nVidia software. Over years the nVidia software was not preserved
by Windows updates. I tested the three partitions and only the
Vista-32-U has enough nVidia software to be safe to use a 3 drive RAID
0 storage array. Therefor to unable one more (permanent) installation
Win10, I need to purchase a new single drive to use for install.

Please someone make a suggestion? The RAID array was made from three
Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm, ST250310AS with a listed Avg. Sequential
Mixed IO Speed 59.8MB/s

It is eight years later. Please suggests a SATA model with 1.0
terabyte and 3 or 4 times that data rate?

Thanks in advance.


Well, Robert ran off a benchmark this morning.
This is a ST1000DM003. Bandwidth at the start of the
drive is 208MB/sec or so. Since the drive could have
been on a SATA II motherboard port, the tops could be clipped
off the peaks on the left. It doesn't really run all that
much faster than SATA II. Only a hair faster.

https://s32.postimg.org/mu5q1s3zp/example.jpg

It's $52 at the moment.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148840

On sequential, you cannot go too much faster than that. More
impressive, is Seagate makes a 6TB drive that runs at the
same rates.

Paul


Thanks Paul, I just bought a 1.0 terabyte Seagate supposedly at 6 GB
speed. I brought it home to try to reconstruct my PC. The Win10 DVD said
there were problems with the new HDD. PMagic reports only 7.5 GB size
30.0 MB used and 0 free. And PMagic can do nothing.

AT startup of the install, I told it where to look for some nVidia
devices drivers. Maybe I need to download something from Seagate? But
where.


If you boot the Win10 DVD and use the Command Prompt
window on it, can you see the drive ? The tool
on there to use, is "diskpart". It is the
Command Prompt equivalent of Disk Management.

diskpart
list disk
select disk 1
....
exit

You can enter commands in there to create partitions,
such as make a partition which occupies the whole disk.
You have to "select a disk" or "select a partition",
before you can issue a command to a disk or issue
a command to a partition.

One command in particular you should know about, in diskpart,
is "clean" and "clean all". To use them, you must select
a disk first. (And naturally, make sure it is the correct
disk. You could easily erase the wrong one.)

The "clean" command zeroes out the MBR. That takes a
fraction of a second.

The "clean all" command, would zero every byte on the
entire 1TB drive. That takes two hours. So if you had
a half-baked GPT setup on the disk, you can remove it
with "clean all".

It's possible for a disk you purchase from someone, to
have an HPA on it (Host Protected Area). Those can be
removed from Linux, restoring full drive capacity. Even
the guy who wrote "Secure Erase", does not guarantee
that Secure Erase removes an HPA and makes the disk
like new again. So if some idiot applies an HPA
(I've done a couple :-) ), removing them can be
a chore. It's a chore, because not all motherboards
will allow you to use HPA commands. You can only
execute one HPA command per boot cycle, and a good
BIOS will use up the one command on purpose, so malware
will not be able to use the command at runtime.

On the machine I'm typing on, only one JMicron port
supports my HPA experiments. All the Intel chip ports
are permanently closed to HPA.

*******

You need an NVidia driver (i.e. a driver for the Southbridge
port - Windows has some that are built in). Nothing is
absolutely needed from Seagate for a 1TB drive. For
data drives larger than 2.2TB, there are some optional
materials on the Seagate site in that case. Your drive
is only 1TB and just regular tools should be good enough.
Modern OSes with GPT capability, don't need Seagate
optional materials either (you can make a 6TB partition
if you want).

If I was in your situation, I would

1) Boot my Ubuntu or Linux Mint DVD.
2) sudo apt-get install disktype --- a tiny program
sudo disktype /dev/sda --- gives summary of
disk structure
3) sudo fdisk /dev/sda
p --- prints MBR for you
q

Here's some HPA info.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_protected_area

This is an example of a typical command while
working with an HPA. You do one of these, then
reboot, as you cannot issue a second HPA related
command in the same session. You cannot insert
an HPA and remove an HPA, without rebooting.
It's a hardware trap door, and not something
you can program around in the Linux kernel or
anything. It's the way the hardware works
(on purpose).

sudo hdparm --yes-i_know_what_i_am_doing -N p# /dev/sdX

I remember it cost me a reboot, learning that
I had to add the idiotic

--yes-i_know_what_i_am_doing

to make the command work :-) Of course I don't
know what I'm doing. Why make it obvious ? :-)

HTH,
Paul
  #8  
Old July 11th 16, 11:53 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm X
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 111
Default nvraid error Win10

On 2016-07-11 2:56 AM, Paul wrote:
[snippage]
This is an example of a typical command while
working with an HPA. You do one of these, then
reboot, as you cannot issue a second HPA related
command in the same session. You cannot insert
an HPA and remove an HPA, without rebooting.
It's a hardware trap door, and not something
you can program around in the Linux kernel or
anything. It's the way the hardware works
(on purpose).

sudo hdparm --yes-i_know_what_i_am_doing -N p# /dev/sdX

I remember it cost me a reboot, learning that
I had to add the idiotic

--yes-i_know_what_i_am_doing

to make the command work :-) Of course I don't
know what I'm doing. Why make it obvious ? :-)

HTH,
Paul


I think maybe you are conflation Windows and Linux. Nevertheless there
are different methods to achieve the same ends. In the present case, I
tried to use PMagic to format the Seagate. It failed and I think the
reason it failed is the lack of a partition table. PMagic couldn't even
SEE the HDD. nor could the Win10 DVD. Maybe PMagic can solve that
problem, and create a partition table, I'll check.
  #9  
Old July 11th 16, 12:06 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm X
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 111
Default nvraid error Win10

On 2016-07-11 3:53 AM, Norm X wrote:
On 2016-07-11 2:56 AM, Paul wrote:
[snippage]
This is an example of a typical command while
working with an HPA. You do one of these, then
reboot, as you cannot issue a second HPA related
command in the same session. You cannot insert
an HPA and remove an HPA, without rebooting.
It's a hardware trap door, and not something
you can program around in the Linux kernel or
anything. It's the way the hardware works
(on purpose).

sudo hdparm --yes-i_know_what_i_am_doing -N p# /dev/sdX

I remember it cost me a reboot, learning that
I had to add the idiotic

--yes-i_know_what_i_am_doing

to make the command work :-) Of course I don't
know what I'm doing. Why make it obvious ? :-)

HTH,
Paul


I think maybe you are conflation Windows and Linux. Nevertheless there
are different methods to achieve the same ends. In the present case, I
tried to use PMagic to format the Seagate. It failed and I think the
reason it failed is the lack of a partition table. PMagic couldn't even
SEE the HDD. nor could the Win10 DVD. Maybe PMagic can solve that
problem, and create a partition table, I'll check.


Ignore previous comment: PMagic reports only 7.5 GB size 30.0 MB used
and 0 free.

I probably misinterpreted the info presented. 7.5 GB is the size of a
flash drive. PMagic said nothing about Seagate.
  #10  
Old July 11th 16, 12:21 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default nvraid error Win10

Norm X wrote:
On 2016-07-11 2:56 AM, Paul wrote:
[snippage]
This is an example of a typical command while
working with an HPA. You do one of these, then
reboot, as you cannot issue a second HPA related
command in the same session. You cannot insert
an HPA and remove an HPA, without rebooting.
It's a hardware trap door, and not something
you can program around in the Linux kernel or
anything. It's the way the hardware works
(on purpose).

sudo hdparm --yes-i_know_what_i_am_doing -N p# /dev/sdX

I remember it cost me a reboot, learning that
I had to add the idiotic

--yes-i_know_what_i_am_doing

to make the command work :-) Of course I don't
know what I'm doing. Why make it obvious ? :-)

HTH,
Paul


I think maybe you are conflation Windows and Linux. Nevertheless there
are different methods to achieve the same ends. In the present case, I
tried to use PMagic to format the Seagate. It failed and I think the
reason it failed is the lack of a partition table. PMagic couldn't even
SEE the HDD. nor could the Win10 DVD. Maybe PMagic can solve that
problem, and create a partition table, I'll check.


You can use whatever tools you want, to examine the disk.

You could try PTEDIT32 if you have a copy.

The free copy is no longer available from Symantec.
(It's been sitting on the FTP server for years, but got
removed - consequently my answers no longer refer to it.)

I recommend using whatever good tools you have access to.
I frequently use Linux, if a maintenance task calls for
it and I don't have a Windows tool.

For example, there are some messes you can get into,
that Disk Management simply cannot handle. If you do a
block by block copy of a hybrid ISO onto a USB key for
example, that can be just about impossible to clean off
with Windows GUI tools. And then you have to be creative,
and check your tool box for another method.

I have a copy of Disktype I built in Cygwin, but it
would take a whole post to describe how to do it. I'd
have to install Cygwin again, just to write it up.

The Disktype in Linux (cross-platform) is available
instantly from the Package Manager, without a fuss.
And it scans the disk and tries to give you a
picture of what is on it.

I don't know of a single tool that does a comprehensive
review of storage device contents and gives an
unambiguous picture of the mess you're in.

Your Partition Magic results are weird, and smack of a
geometry problem. But for me, it's faster to try to
get other tools to identify the situation, than to
debug what Partition Magic did this time. I mean, Partition
Magic gets ****ed off if it spots megabyte alignment,
and that is exactly what your Windows 10 install is
going to do. If you don't want Windows 10 to do that,
you would do an MSDOS setup of an NTFS partition
in advance, so Windows could not use the Win10
default alignment choice. That's the way I got
myself in a mess with Win7 - installed in a
pre-existing NTFS partition (with CHS alignment),
and then later I couldn't figure out when I needed
megabyte alignment, why it wasn't there :-) The
hard drive I had just purchased, hated the CHS
alignment and it was slower than it needed to be.
It perked up after putting the alignment in, that
Windows would have used in the first place if
I hadn't been so clever. That sort of thing
happens on 512e drives with 4KB internal sectors.
Something you can spot from... Linux :-)

Bottom drive here is 512n (native), alignment doesn't matter.
Works good on any OS. While the top drive
needs megabyte alignment for best performance.
The top drive is 512e (emulated). Most drives
today (percentage wise) are 512e.

http://s28.postimg.org/fmmz92g59/disk_comparison.gif

Paul
 




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