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#1
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Under water for Battlefield 3.
Hello,
Will Battlefield 3 have a map with an under water section ? Call of Duty 7 will have at least one single player map with an under water section ?! So Battlefield 3 should at least have one too ! =D So if you know of any good under water graphics algorithms post them here ! =D Bye, Skybuck =D |
#2
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Under water for Battlefield 3.
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 20:56:19 +0200
"Skybuck Flying" wrote: So if you know of any good under water graphics algorithms post them here ! =D Sure, just render things as usual and apply an exponential fog falloff. Seriously, rendering underwater scenes is boring. What's interesting is rendering boundary surfaces between volumina of different optical density. That's where things become interesting, however it's not terribly difficult: 1. Render the underwater scene like usual (apply exponential fog for absorption of light), but refract the viewing frustum boundary vectors and use a texture as target. 2. Render the scene over water mirrored in the water surface, again target a texture. 3. Create a boundary surface. In the case of water you'll want waves. Simulating realistic looking waves is the hardest parts, but there are several methods (Google "realtime low viscosity wave and ripple simulation"). Usually you'll go for some fourier transform based method. 4. Use the wave normal map to distort the underwater and reflection textures, today one does this using a fragment shader. Mix the textures by applying a Fresnel term. If you want to spice things up apply a slightly stronger distortion on the blue and a slightly weaker on the red channel to account for chromatic abberation. Really, totally boring stuff if you've done it often enough. It was new around 2003 when programmable GPUs hit the market. I actually did this kind of stuff using a fixed function pipeline GeForce2 some years earlier, but it required several rendering passes. What's a lot harder than water and refractions is realtime indirect lighting. And good lighting is what makes a scene looking nonartificial. Wolfgang |
#3
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Under water for Battlefield 3.
So let me be clear about this.
At least one map/level for multiplayer which has an under water section, like a lake or a river or a sea, and where players can swim under water and kill each other with a knife, or any other weapon which might work under water, perhaps granades, perhaps bazooka's, perhaps bullits up to 90 centimeters from air to water, or perhaps even fully under water. Perhaps scuba diver equipment for a special solder type, which can help out and go under water, and get rid of those pesky spies under water, perhaps pesky under water granade launcher, perhaps even under water tiny or medium submarines which shoot missiles as the beach. Also to infiltrate carriers or so swim under water close to them... and shoot wire up and try to board it. Also water might be use to exchange fires if soldiers on fire... not sure if there will be a flame thrower... perhaps water can also be used to collect "water in bottles" which could provide health bonusses. Perhaps enemies can poison the water. The water/scuba diver soldier could have equipment to test the water to say if it's save or not to drink/bottle. When it gives a signal an icon would appear above it's head.. "water is safe to drink symbol". or "water is poisened" symbol. It could also have the anti-dote to inject into the water or it could clean the water and give out bottles to other soldiers. So it could be like a "water giving" soldier, like a medic which gives out med packs (so the water soldier could replace the medic somewhat if necessary). Driving submarines under water would also be cool, this would add a new element to Battlefield 3, I think stuff like this is what gamers are looking for in a new Battlefield 3. When Battlefield 2 was launched it was mostly new to many gamers, none had flown before, none had driven tanks before or barely, none had flown heli's before or barely... I think this "freshness/newness experience" is what Battlefield 3 gamers are looking for. Therefore for Battlefield 3 to attract this old croud and keep them playing and gaming requires new elements to the game. So driving/manouvring a submarine would be one of those perfect additions to the game which add something new... the driver could then deploy mines in the sea to try and fight off those scuba divers... scuba divers might also have some equipment to try and fight them off... perhaps they could even "launch/go to water" from a carrier with dolphins then the dolphin blows up onto the mine... to bad for the dolphin but it saves lifes... perhaps this is to mean and something else could be done with the dolphin... perhaps faster swimming otherwise forget the fricking dolphin Anyway there could also be a cruise destroyer ship, which is ment as a submarine killer and other ship killer, so players could manouver it as well and drop depth bombs/charges at the submarines to try and take em out. The submarines can launch missiles at the beach as said before, and perhaps the cruiser could launch some as well.... perhaps there could also be a navy big battleship which has huge powerfull cannons which can also bombard the beach. Such a multiplayer map could focus on taking out the big ships first or at least it's cannons before it's save to concuer flags on the beach or other spots. The map could also end when all ships destroyed... so it could also be a ship destruction versus airfield/base destruction or so. Which ever team destroys the opponents base the quickest wins... however by capturing flags people can spawn faster and get certain bonusses, like more weapons/vehicles to fight with... so capturing flags remains important too... so then the gamers-interesting dilemma becomes: do I protect base or do I protect flags... rolls for different players to forfill. Perhaps there could even be satelittes taking part in the multiplayer like ion cannons or the ever populair nuclear bomb and/or missile strike... perhaps players could switch to nuclear-radiation-proof masks/brieving devices to take breath, and nuclear radiatiom detection devices... to warn of health going down or perhaps that could be automatic. So the nuclear bombs/missiles strikes could either be part of the game, so the game can continue and suddenly the battlefield would change in a nuclear hit battlezone/battlefield, with lot's of destruction everywhere... lot's of destroyed buildings and blackness on the ground or so... perhaps some sections of the map would still be intact until those are perhaps hit as well. Don't over do it on the nuclear front though... if somebody plays really well, he's awared a nuclear strike... or perhaps the commander gets a nuclear strike option if his team does exceptionally well, for some more enemy punishment The strike could also be the "final" blow to the enemy right before the level ends... but that has been done before I think... it's probably most fun to include it while playing and then being able to continue playing. Some soldiers might be badly wounded because of the strike but they survived... perhaps some might even be blind... and need to fight on blinded ! That would be cool ! Some might have a leg missing or their leg broken and need to limp or even crawl on which would be cool. Some soldiers might even be cut in half and screaming for help... unfortunately they going to die soon, so there is nothing we can do for them... except hope that they might put some more bullits into an enemy which happens to come along Perhaps we could even inject a painkiller/life ending poison to put him out of his misery... or just a bullit threw the brain which would be considered a deed of mercy Then he can respawn... but only if the guy requests to be shot LOL. Or he simply takes his pistol and commits suicide ! LOL. Other players would see the suicide animation... which might disturb them a bit... but that's battlefield ! You gotta be able to handle drama like that ! A bit tasteless perhaps... so it needs to be tested out if it can be done tastefull or not. If it's very distastefull then probably leave it out. This is not postal after all More attack heli's would be cool too, better looking apaches but I think they already in the game... that's nice... also perhaps the experimental stealthy commanche helichopter that be cool. That would be the commanche game build into battlefield 3 for maximum awesomeness ! Perhaps the joint strike fighter could also be included into the game for maximum moderness/recentness and awesome/coolness. Perhaps the raptor F22 (?) too. Perhaps even a surprise appereance of the rumored aurojet... though that might be pushing it... fantasy elements should be left out... but ask yourself: is aurora a fantasy or a topsecret project ? War does have it's surprises... so some experimental new vehicles should fit in. Perhaps single player could introduce the concept of the new top secret weapon "the aurojet" so players know it exists and what it is It could be a big triangle with some 3 lights underneath it flying high up in the sky at incredible speeds. What it’s purpose is is yet unknown perhaps close up pictures of battefields, perhaps bombing, perhaps anti-nuke-missile capabilities, perhaps satelite knock outs. Perhaps super-sonic-bomber, bombs flieing at the battlefield with incredible speed, after the bomb strikes and explodes only then do you hear the whistle ! So the aurojet could be called upon by the commander for a super sonic (bomb) strike ! (multiplayer perhaps even single player too) So I hope the Battlefield 3 designers/developers listen to this posting and I hope they understand what Battlefield 3 gamers really want... they don't just want a better looking Battlefield 2... they need a certain freshness/newness to it... to come back to it... otherwise it would be a bit boring. I'd rather see Battlefield 3 delayed to build in these great new things, then an early boring unimpressive game Battlefield 2 has a reputation to hold up ! =D Battlefield 3 should be so awesome that Battlefield 4 will have the most pre-orders in history ! So think of the future too ! =D At least one map/level for single which has an under water section, good simply be a swimming section to survive a tunnel collapse. It's just to show off that the game can do it and what to expect in multiplayer later on. Bye, Skybuck. |
#4
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Under water for Battlefield 3.
That's where the challenge is...
Try to make it look good, try to make it look interesting and full of detail. Like under water plants, fish, water bubbles, big water bubbles of explosions. There are probably no games out there that really do it well, so it might be an under developed graphical thingie. Though I do remember "future shock" or whatever the game was called, but it was a fantasy game and there was just somewater going through corridors... I never really played that game... But for a game like Battlefield 3 there could/should be some more than just "fog" and a flat ocean bottom or no surface at all... Perhaps sea-creature-shells can be added to beach for extra beach details, perhaps ocean/sea/beach bottom as well with more detail. Soldiers could even get hurt by swimming to close to sea correl which might cut them up. There could also be maps with big builders in the beach sea or air/sea tunnels which can be swim through. Come to think of it Call of Duty 5 had a special "water splashes" effect which was pretty cool and most rememberable. Rumor has it that it only worked on nvidia cards and not ati. In the far future say 15 years from now, devices might be so powerfull that lightning and glass/water effect/reflection could even be calculated... and water would be dripping between soldier fingers and over their heads when they come out of the sea... So there is still a lot to be done at that front ! Even rainbow effects of water splashing against the sides of a harbor might be possible or so Bye, Skybuck. |
#5
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Under water for Battlefield 3.
For lakes entirely different situations/sceneria's and effects could exist.
Think of dirty populated lakes. Or grounds but under water by rommel, to drown paratroopers. Soldiers could fall into the water with parachutes and then need to struggle to get out of it. The lakes themselfes could have green water or populated water... there could also be some ducks around which could be killed or fly away to signal their presense to potential enemies or teammates. There could be some yellow bamboe/high grass in some sections of the lake. Trees drowning and growning out of the lake... Under water tree roots and tree branches. The soldiers could then ask themselfes: Do I really wanna go into the dirty ****ty mess ?! The answer might be a forced: yes ! The enemy is shooting at us with miniguns... we be safer under water then out here in the open ! So lake could give a somewhat tactical advantage as a natural bullit stopper. Lake leaves/plants could be floating on top of the lake. There could even be frogs, dead frogs or frog foam. Perhaps dity yellow greenish foam from tiny water rivers/tiny water falls flowing into the lake. Perhaps even tree leaves falling and floating down and hitting the lake and floating on top of the surface. It's all about details details details details to make it look good, realistic and interesting ! =D Bye, Skybuckd =D |
#6
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Under water for Battlefield 3.
"Skybuck Flying" wrote in message b.home.nl... " For lakes entirely different situations/sceneria's and effects could exist. Think of dirty populated lakes. " I ment polutted lakes " Or grounds but under water by rommel, to drown paratroopers. Soldiers could fall into the water with parachutes and then need to struggle to get out of it. The lakes themselfes could have green water or populated water... there could also be some ducks around which could be killed or fly away to signal their presense to potential enemies or teammates. There could be some yellow bamboe/high grass in some sections of the lake. Trees drowning and growning out of the lake... Under water tree roots and tree branches. The soldiers could then ask themselfes: Do I really wanna go into the dirty ****ty mess ?! The answer might be a forced: yes ! The enemy is shooting at us with miniguns... we be safer under water then out here in the open ! So lake could give a somewhat tactical advantage as a natural bullit stopper. Lake leaves/plants could be floating on top of the lake. There could even be frogs, dead frogs or frog foam. Perhaps dity yellow greenish foam from tiny water rivers/tiny water falls flowing into the lake. Perhaps even tree leaves falling and floating down and hitting the lake and floating on top of the surface. It's all about details details details details to make it look good, realistic and interesting ! =D " Bye, Skybuckd =D |
#7
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Under water for Battlefield 3.
However Battlefield 3 seems to be more about a game of sand/dessert.
I think they got that one down by now... I do wonder will there be more grass ? There does seem to be "paris" and "subway" stuff in the game. Perhaps Paris has a lake which could be included Bye, Skybuck =D |
#8
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Under water for Battlefield 3.
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:36:51 +0200
"Skybuck Flying" wrote: That's where the challenge is... Try to make it look good, try to make it look interesting and full of detail. Like under water plants, fish, water bubbles, big water bubbles of explosions. This is not a algorithmic problem, at least not on the graphics front. This is a artistic challange, and maybe a problem of proper physics simulation. And explosions under water, in reality they don't look like you think they do: The key characteristic of an explosion is, that it creates a shock wave, shock waves travel with the speed of sound (in water about 1000m/s). A shock wave consists of a high pressure front (shock front) and a low pressure rear. If the pressure difference is large enough, on the low pressure side the vapour temperature of water drops below 0°C (this is called cavitation) and high pressure means a local rise of temperature. So at the shock wave boundary the water is literally boiling like in a kettle. But only at the shock wave boundary, which radially expands with 1000m/s; behind it, it condensates immediately. Due to the expansion of the shock wave, the pressure drops with 1/r², which means that in a few meters from the explosion the pressure difference is too low to cause cavitation, which defines the limiting radius for the bubble sphere shell an underwater explosion creates. Fishes are just a challenge in NPC design, and texturing. Scales would probably rendered using some tangent shading model. Plants are, well plants, like on land, only they move differently; slower and more fluid. There are probably no games out there that really do it well, so it might be an under developed graphical thingie. Well, it's not a matter of graphics algorithms; optics work quite the same way under water, than they do outside. I mean, we (humans) literally live in an ocean of an optical dense medium called air. Perhaps sea-creature-shells can be added to beach for extra beach details, perhaps ocean/sea/beach bottom as well with more detail. Again an artistic challenge. And if you raise the amount of detail also probably hitting the resource limits of current GPUs. Soldiers could even get hurt by swimming to close to sea correl which might cut them up. That's game logic, totally off topic in all but one of the NGs you're crossposting. There could also be maps with big builders in the beach sea or air/sea tunnels which can be swim through. Well, if you're patient an are willing to wait for the game I'm developing with some friends: There'll be a cave diving map. In the far future say 15 years from now, devices might be so powerfull that lightning and glass/water effect/reflection could even be calculated... and water would be dripping between soldier fingers and over their heads when they come out of the sea... glass/water effects can be rendered already, they're just not very accurate at the moment, because they work on an approximation of the environment. Anything beyond that requires the use of realtime raytracing. Technically our GPUs are already performant enough to do it at low resolution (640x480 or so). So give it maybe 4 years only. But the realtime refraction effects we have today are already good enough, you'd have to study a single frame very carefully to make out the errors of approximation. So there is still a lot to be done at that front ! At the moment I see only one open front in game graphics development and that is good looking dynamic indirect lighting. Even rainbow effects of water splashing against the sides of a harbor might be possible or so Those are easy. The principle of diffraction of light in water mist is well understood and so easy to emulate. What modern game development really needs is a new challenge on the gameplay frontier. FPSs, RPGs, racing games, combat games haven't changed in years, they follow the same principle ever since. Invent some new kind of gameplay, that's where we need to move on. I mean, just look how popular Minecraft is, and it has ****ty graphics if you compare it with modern standards. Graphics, duh, a game doesn't get good only because it has kick ass graphics. I still prefer good old DeusEx or System Shock over umm, I don't even remember the names of the countless, soulless games I've played in the last years. But create some innovative gameplay, like Portal or Mirror's Edge, and you'll have a place in my heart forever. Wolfgang |
#9
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Under water for Battlefield 3.
Here some more idea's:
1. A gigant storm on the sea map. (day night map and night time map, especially night time could be interesting.). 2. Eb and tide for beach. (And water splatter on the beach ). Bye, Skybuck. |
#10
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Under water for Battlefield 3.
On 15/06/2011 21.19, Wolfgang Draxinger wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 20:56:19 +0200 "Skybuck wrote: So if you know of any good under water graphics algorithms post them here ! =D Sure, just render things as usual and apply an exponential fog falloff. Seriously, rendering underwater scenes is boring. What's interesting is rendering boundary surfaces between volumina of different optical density. That's where things become interesting, however it's not terribly difficult: 1. Render the underwater scene like usual (apply exponential fog for absorption of light), but refract the viewing frustum boundary vectors [SNIP!] Also light streaks and particles floating can help the realism imho... -- rIO.sK |
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