Power supply requirement for 2 Nvidia GTX in SLI?

Phil Weldon wrote:
'Paul' wrote:

I'm not going to argue the merits of that statement, because I don't have
a copy of the appropriate spec that calls up the 240VA limit. I
understand
it is traceable to something like 60950, but don't have a copy.
_____

See

"3.4.4. Over-current Protection
Overload currents applied to each tested output rail will cause the
output to trip before reaching
or exceeding 240 VA. For testing purposes, the overload currents should
be ramped at a
minimum rate of 10 A/s starting from full load."

on page 22 at
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...X12V_1_3dg.pdf .

Notice the phrase 'will cause the output to trip'.

and

8.1 North America - REQUIRED
The power supply must be certified by an NRTL (Nationally Recognized
Testing
Laboratory) for use in the USA and Canada under the following conditions:
. The power supply UL report "Conditions of Acceptability" shall meet in
the intended
application of the power supply in the end product.
. The supply must be recognized for use in Information Technology Equipment
including Electrical Business Equipment per UL 60950-1 First Edition. The
certification must include external enclosure testing for the AC
receptacle side of
the power supply (see Appendices A, B, C, and D).
. The supply must have a full complement of tests conducted as part of the
certification, such as input current, leakage current, hi-pot,
temperature, energy
discharge test, transformer output characterization test (open-circuit
voltage,
short-circuit performance), and abnormal testing (to include stalled-fan
tests and
voltage-select-switch mismatch).

on page 45 at

http://www.formfactors.org/developer..._Rev_1_2 .pdf
.

And see

"If the selected power supply has any single output rated at more than
240VA contact with circuits connected to the output must be prevented in
user access areas, protection may be achieved by insulation, guarding or
interlocks (refer to IEC 60950-1 First Edition, 2001 Clauses 0.2.2 and
2.1)"


at

http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/rese.../eng/35831.htm .


And, finally, see 'UL 60950-1 Information Technology', page 80

at

http://www.psui.com/1upower/pdf/901_ref.pdf .

Phil Weldon

The second last link, is the clearest one. Basically, it is warning against
"contact with circuits", meaning the wiring is to be insulated, the plugs
should not expose conductors, such that the "test finger" could bridge them.
The Molex 1x4, I've noticed on some supplies, does expose conductors, and
the pins should really be recessed a bit.

Page 80 of 60950, is a table from "limited power source". I'm not sure,
but that could have something to do with power distribution systems.
I cannot find good linkages between the "limited power source" section,
and other sections of the document.

If I look through 60950, and look for instances of "HAZARDOUS ENERGY LEVEL",
the context seems to be mainly concerned with operator contact with the
source. Whether contact by the operator, or contact by a tool (screwdriver
bridges bare conductors). There could still be violations of that, on the
motherboard itself.

I'm not a standards guy. Someone who has been reading these specs over the
years, and knows which spec preceded that one, would have more context,
to make an interpretation.

Paul

'Paul' wrote:
The second last link, is the clearest one. Basically, it is warning
against
"contact with circuits", meaning the wiring is to be insulated, the plugs
should not expose conductors, such that the "test finger" could bridge
them.
The Molex 1x4, I've noticed on some supplies, does expose conductors, and
the pins should really be recessed a bit.

Page 80 of 60950, is a table from "limited power source". I'm not sure,
but that could have something to do with power distribution systems.
I cannot find good linkages between the "limited power source" section,
and other sections of the document.

If I look through 60950, and look for instances of "HAZARDOUS ENERGY
LEVEL",
the context seems to be mainly concerned with operator contact with the
source. Whether contact by the operator, or contact by a tool (screwdriver
bridges bare conductors). There could still be violations of that, on the
motherboard itself.

I'm not a standards guy. Someone who has been reading these specs over the
years, and knows which spec preceded that one, would have more context,
to make an interpretation.
_____

I don't think the issue should be over complicated or fudged as PC Power &
Cooling does. PC Power & Cooling (your
http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/ cite) is figuratively and,
potentially, literally blowing smoke. EPS12V is a server power supply
standard http://www.enhanceusa.com/designguide/eps12v_v2.0.pdf . PC Power
and cooling can not KNOW that the SYSTEM in which one of their single rail
power supplies is installed will comply with EPS12V. Therefore PC Power &
Cooling can not legitimately state EPS12V compliant. Not to mention any
kind of UL 60950-1 certification.

A similar question is followed up at
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/183/3/ .

Phil Weldon


"Paul" wrote in message
Phil Weldon wrote:
'Paul' wrote:

I'm not going to argue the merits of that statement, because I don't
have
a copy of the appropriate spec that calls up the 240VA limit. I
understand
it is traceable to something like 60950, but don't have a copy.
_____

See

"3.4.4. Over-current Protection
Overload currents applied to each tested output rail will cause the
output to trip before reaching
or exceeding 240 VA. For testing purposes, the overload currents should
be ramped at a
minimum rate of 10 A/s starting from full load."

on page 22 at
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...X12V_1_3dg.pdf .

Notice the phrase 'will cause the output to trip'.

and

8.1 North America - REQUIRED
The power supply must be certified by an NRTL (Nationally Recognized
Testing
Laboratory) for use in the USA and Canada under the following conditions:
. The power supply UL report "Conditions of Acceptability" shall meet in
the intended
application of the power supply in the end product.
. The supply must be recognized for use in Information Technology
Equipment
including Electrical Business Equipment per UL 60950-1 First Edition. The
certification must include external enclosure testing for the AC
receptacle side of
the power supply (see Appendices A, B, C, and D).
. The supply must have a full complement of tests conducted as part of
the
certification, such as input current, leakage current, hi-pot,
temperature, energy
discharge test, transformer output characterization test (open-circuit
voltage,
short-circuit performance), and abnormal testing (to include stalled-fan
tests and
voltage-select-switch mismatch).

on page 45 at

http://www.formfactors.org/developer..._Rev_1_2 .pdf .

And see

"If the selected power supply has any single output rated at more than
240VA contact with circuits connected to the output must be prevented in
user access areas, protection may be achieved by insulation, guarding or
interlocks (refer to IEC 60950-1 First Edition, 2001 Clauses 0.2.2 and
2.1)"


at

http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/rese.../eng/35831.htm .


And, finally, see 'UL 60950-1 Information Technology', page 80

at

http://www.psui.com/1upower/pdf/901_ref.pdf .

Phil Weldon

The second last link, is the clearest one. Basically, it is warning
against
"contact with circuits", meaning the wiring is to be insulated, the plugs
should not expose conductors, such that the "test finger" could bridge
them.
The Molex 1x4, I've noticed on some supplies, does expose conductors, and
the pins should really be recessed a bit.

Page 80 of 60950, is a table from "limited power source". I'm not sure,
but that could have something to do with power distribution systems.
I cannot find good linkages between the "limited power source" section,
and other sections of the document.

If I look through 60950, and look for instances of "HAZARDOUS ENERGY
LEVEL",
the context seems to be mainly concerned with operator contact with the
source. Whether contact by the operator, or contact by a tool (screwdriver
bridges bare conductors). There could still be violations of that, on the
motherboard itself.

I'm not a standards guy. Someone who has been reading these specs over the
years, and knows which spec preceded that one, would have more context,
to make an interpretation.

Paul

Phil Weldon wrote:


I don't think the issue should be over complicated or fudged as PC Power
& Cooling does. PC Power & Cooling (your
http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/ cite) is figuratively and,
potentially, literally blowing smoke. EPS12V is a server power supply
standard http://www.enhanceusa.com/designguide/eps12v_v2.0.pdf . PC
Power and cooling can not KNOW that the SYSTEM in which one of their
single rail power supplies is installed will comply with EPS12V.
Therefore PC Power & Cooling can not legitimately state EPS12V
compliant. Not to mention any kind of UL 60950-1 certification.

A similar question is followed up at
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/183/3/ .

Phil Weldon


Here is one of their other Silencer series power supplies. This
is the low end, without a 2x4.

http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/...r-360-atx.html

They claim it is "ATX12V (2.1)" :-)

And in the Underwriters database, the Silencer 750W, with the
big-ass 12V output, is listed as 60950-1.

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/t...QQGQ8.E131500&
ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt+Certified+for+Canada+-+Component&
objid=1074219244&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionl ess&parent_id=1073992443&sequence=1

(From http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/t...RAME/index.htm
"pcpower", "carlsbad", California, "92008", USA )

So what matters in the power supply business :-)

1) Enough agency approvals so you can sell it.
2) Classified according to connectors+wiring provided.
3) You have enough insurance, so you can afford to be sued.
4) If (3) is not true, declare bankruptcy.

The appearance of the 240VA clause in the Intel spec, is
presumably someone at Intel's interpretation, of what would
be appropriate for that class of power device. But again,
I'm not a standards guy, and the best people for that, are
the ones that were around when previous standards were issues.
The people involved, can not only tell you how to interpret the
current standard, but also the history of the standard, and
where it came from.

This new one from Intel is interesting.

"Power Supply Design Guide for Desktop Platform Form Factors Revision 1.2 - [1 MB]"
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...DG_rev_1_1.pdf

"Pg.29 3.5.7 Separate Current Limit for 12V2 - RECOMMENDED

The 12 V rail on the 2x2 power connector should be a separate
current limited output to meet the requirements of UL and EN 60950."

So the wording of their design guide, seems a little less
prescriptive. Like they want UL to take over.

Paul

'Paul' wrote, among other things:
This new one from Intel is interesting.

"Power Supply Design Guide for Desktop Platform Form Factors Revision
1.2 - [1 MB]"
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...DG_rev_1_1.pdf
"Pg.29 3.5.7 Separate Current Limit for 12V2 - RECOMMENDED

The 12 V rail on the 2x2 power connector should be a separate
current limited output to meet the requirements of UL and EN 60950."

So the wording of their design guide, seems a little less
prescriptive. Like they want UL to take over.
_____

First, in your cite
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...DG_rev_1_1.pdf
is the statement

"8.1 North America - REQUIRED
The power supply must be certified by an NRTL (Nationally Recognized Testing
Laboratory) for use in the USA and Canada under the following conditions:
.. The power supply UL report "Conditions of Acceptability" shall meet in the
intended
application of the power supply in the end product.
.. The supply must be recognized for use in Information Technology Equipment
including Electrical Business Equipment per UL 60950-1 First Edition. The
certification must include external enclosure testing for the AC receptacle
side of
the power supply (see Appendices A, B, C, and D)."

Second, were I looking for a SLI (or cross-fire, but why?) system, I'd look
for a supply with four +12VDC rails. That ought to cover all bases;
adequate power +12VDC for each category (CPU, display adapter 1, display
adapter 2, and motherboard/drives), safety (no possibility of an internal
hair dryer, exploding screwdrivers or cockroaches), and valid certification.

Certification to UL standards is EXPENSIVE. I'd bet that there are lots of
power supply manufacturers that mention UL standards, but that haven't paid
for the testing and certification. See my cite from an earlier post in this
thread

"A similar question is followed up at
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/183/3/ ."

I've submitted a query about actual testing and UL certification to PC Power
& Cooling. I hope they will be as forthcoming as the manufacturer in
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/183/3/ .

Finally, PC Power & Cooling plays a little fast and loose with other
assertions in their website 'Power Supply Myths" section.

Phil Weldon


"Paul" wrote in message ...
Phil Weldon wrote:


I don't think the issue should be over complicated or fudged as PC Power
& Cooling does. PC Power & Cooling (your
http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/ cite) is figuratively and,
potentially, literally blowing smoke. EPS12V is a server power supply
standard http://www.enhanceusa.com/designguide/eps12v_v2.0.pdf . PC
Power and cooling can not KNOW that the SYSTEM in which one of their
single rail power supplies is installed will comply with EPS12V.
Therefore PC Power & Cooling can not legitimately state EPS12V compliant.
Not to mention any kind of UL 60950-1 certification.

A similar question is followed up at
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/183/3/ .

Phil Weldon


Here is one of their other Silencer series power supplies. This
is the low end, without a 2x4.

http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/...r-360-atx.html

They claim it is "ATX12V (2.1)" :-)

And in the Underwriters database, the Silencer 750W, with the
big-ass 12V output, is listed as 60950-1.

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/t...QQGQ8.E131500&

ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt+Certified+for+Canada+-+Component&

objid=1074219244&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionl ess&parent_id=1073992443&sequence=1

(From http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/t...RAME/index.htm
"pcpower", "carlsbad", California, "92008", USA )

So what matters in the power supply business :-)

1) Enough agency approvals so you can sell it.
2) Classified according to connectors+wiring provided.
3) You have enough insurance, so you can afford to be sued.
4) If (3) is not true, declare bankruptcy.

The appearance of the 240VA clause in the Intel spec, is
presumably someone at Intel's interpretation, of what would
be appropriate for that class of power device. But again,
I'm not a standards guy, and the best people for that, are
the ones that were around when previous standards were issues.
The people involved, can not only tell you how to interpret the
current standard, but also the history of the standard, and
where it came from.

This new one from Intel is interesting.

"Power Supply Design Guide for Desktop Platform Form Factors Revision
1.2 - [1 MB]"
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...DG_rev_1_1.pdf

"Pg.29 3.5.7 Separate Current Limit for 12V2 - RECOMMENDED

The 12 V rail on the 2x2 power connector should be a separate
current limited output to meet the requirements of UL and EN 60950."

So the wording of their design guide, seems a little less
prescriptive. Like they want UL to take over.

Paul

Mr.E Solved! wrote:

That was nice of you to do all that work for the OP, I hope he
appreciates it.

When Paul did the same work for me ... it was well appreciated - it's
helpful folks like Paul that make NG's tolerable IMO.

Boff.

"huLLy" wrote in message
...
OK, my system:

AMD 6400 AM2 Processor
Asus M2N SLi Deluxe Mobo
4 Gig RAM
1 250GB Sata, 2*400GB Sata Drives
2x Nvidia 768M 8800GTX
XFi extreme gamer soundcard

My question is what size PSU will I need to run this lot when gaming?

Will a Hiper 730W do the trick??

--
huLLy
Tel 07976 123278
I use a PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 that comes with the necessary "4"
power connectors for two 8800 GTXs in SLI. PCP&C have been around virtually
forever and make very good quality PSUs.

Ed

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
...
'Paul' wrote, among other things:
This new one from Intel is interesting.

"Power Supply Design Guide for Desktop Platform Form Factors Revision
1.2 - [1 MB]"
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...DG_rev_1_1.pdf
"Pg.29 3.5.7 Separate Current Limit for 12V2 - RECOMMENDED

The 12 V rail on the 2x2 power connector should be a separate
current limited output to meet the requirements of UL and EN 60950."

So the wording of their design guide, seems a little less
prescriptive. Like they want UL to take over.
_____

First, in your cite
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...DG_rev_1_1.pdf
is the statement

"8.1 North America - REQUIRED
The power supply must be certified by an NRTL (Nationally Recognized
Testing
Laboratory) for use in the USA and Canada under the following conditions:
. The power supply UL report "Conditions of Acceptability" shall meet in
the intended
application of the power supply in the end product.
. The supply must be recognized for use in Information Technology
Equipment
including Electrical Business Equipment per UL 60950-1 First Edition. The
certification must include external enclosure testing for the AC
receptacle side of
the power supply (see Appendices A, B, C, and D)."

Second, were I looking for a SLI (or cross-fire, but why?) system, I'd
look for a supply with four +12VDC rails. That ought to cover all bases;
adequate power +12VDC for each category (CPU, display adapter 1, display
adapter 2, and motherboard/drives), safety (no possibility of an internal
hair dryer, exploding screwdrivers or cockroaches), and valid
certification.

Certification to UL standards is EXPENSIVE. I'd bet that there are lots
of power supply manufacturers that mention UL standards, but that haven't
paid for the testing and certification. See my cite from an earlier post
in this thread

"A similar question is followed up at
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/183/3/ ."

I've submitted a query about actual testing and UL certification to PC
Power & Cooling. I hope they will be as forthcoming as the manufacturer
in
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/183/3/ .

Finally, PC Power & Cooling plays a little fast and loose with other
assertions in their website 'Power Supply Myths" section.

Phil Weldon

PC Power and Cooling still make a great PSU........:-). I have been using
them for years without any issues at all. I have a Silencer 750 SLI in this
system with a couple of 8800GTX cards and it has been going strong
for......geeze, about a year now. Doesn't seem it has been that long since
we did these projects, does it Phil??.........


Ed

"Ed Medlin" wrote in message
. net...

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
...
'Paul' wrote, among other things:
This new one from Intel is interesting.

"Power Supply Design Guide for Desktop Platform Form Factors Revision
1.2 - [1 MB]"
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...DG_rev_1_1.pdf
"Pg.29 3.5.7 Separate Current Limit for 12V2 - RECOMMENDED

The 12 V rail on the 2x2 power connector should be a separate
current limited output to meet the requirements of UL and EN 60950."

So the wording of their design guide, seems a little less
prescriptive. Like they want UL to take over.
_____

First, in your cite
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...DG_rev_1_1.pdf
is the statement

"8.1 North America - REQUIRED
The power supply must be certified by an NRTL (Nationally Recognized
Testing
Laboratory) for use in the USA and Canada under the following conditions:
. The power supply UL report "Conditions of Acceptability" shall meet in
the intended
application of the power supply in the end product.
. The supply must be recognized for use in Information Technology
Equipment
including Electrical Business Equipment per UL 60950-1 First Edition. The
certification must include external enclosure testing for the AC
receptacle side of
the power supply (see Appendices A, B, C, and D)."

Second, were I looking for a SLI (or cross-fire, but why?) system, I'd
look for a supply with four +12VDC rails. That ought to cover all bases;
adequate power +12VDC for each category (CPU, display adapter 1, display
adapter 2, and motherboard/drives), safety (no possibility of an internal
hair dryer, exploding screwdrivers or cockroaches), and valid
certification.

Certification to UL standards is EXPENSIVE. I'd bet that there are lots
of power supply manufacturers that mention UL standards, but that haven't
paid for the testing and certification. See my cite from an earlier post
in this thread

"A similar question is followed up at
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/183/3/ ."

I've submitted a query about actual testing and UL certification to PC
Power & Cooling. I hope they will be as forthcoming as the manufacturer
in
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/183/3/ .

Finally, PC Power & Cooling plays a little fast and loose with other
assertions in their website 'Power Supply Myths" section.

Phil Weldon

PC Power and Cooling still make a great PSU........:-). I have been using
them for years without any issues at all. I have a Silencer 750 SLI in
this system with a couple of 8800GTX cards and it has been going strong
for......geeze, about a year now. Doesn't seem it has been that long since
we did these projects, does it Phil??.........


Ed

I use Enermax galaxy 1000w for my sli gtx's

'Ed Medlin' wrote:
PC Power and Cooling still make a great PSU........:-). I have been using
them for years without any issues at all. I have a Silencer 750 SLI in
this system with a couple of 8800GTX cards and it has been going strong
for......geeze, about a year now. Doesn't seem it has been that long since
we did these projects, does it Phil??.........
_____

I emailed PC Power & Cooling about UL certification 60950-1. PC Power &
Cooling replied that their power supplies are certified, and gave me the
certificate number.

"If you go to the UL website and enter our file number of E131500 you can
see all of our UL certifications. They are done to UL 60950-1. All of our
supplies are ATX12V compliant and all of the supplies of the Silencer 610
EPS12V and higher in wattage are EPS12V compliant.
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/t.../gfilenbr.html "

I have no doubt that PC Power & Cooling makes good power supplies. What I
don't understand is how some of the certifications can be made without
knowing the system where they will be used.


As for our projects, no, it seems like just last year... oh, it was just
last year, exactly! I am trying to hold off on anything major until the
'Nehalem'. But the incremental expenses for my jones are killing me. I
just installed Windows Vista Home Ultimate (got tired of going back and
forth from my notebook to my overclocked desktop) and Vista SP1. Then I saw
a Creative sound card I couldn't live without; now that requires a Creative
I/O drive for midi I/O and front panel connections. And then there is my
new 22" wide screen LCD. By the time 'Nehalem' I won't be able to afford it
B^( And it seems that alt.comp.hardware.overclocking will be in a lull
until the 'Nelham' does arrive.

How is your clock modification doing?

Phil Weldon


"Ed Medlin" wrote in message
. net...

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
...
'Paul' wrote, among other things:
This new one from Intel is interesting.

"Power Supply Design Guide for Desktop Platform Form Factors Revision
1.2 - [1 MB]"
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...DG_rev_1_1.pdf
"Pg.29 3.5.7 Separate Current Limit for 12V2 - RECOMMENDED

The 12 V rail on the 2x2 power connector should be a separate
current limited output to meet the requirements of UL and EN 60950."

So the wording of their design guide, seems a little less
prescriptive. Like they want UL to take over.
_____

First, in your cite
http://www.formfactors.org/developer...DG_rev_1_1.pdf
is the statement

"8.1 North America - REQUIRED
The power supply must be certified by an NRTL (Nationally Recognized
Testing
Laboratory) for use in the USA and Canada under the following conditions:
. The power supply UL report "Conditions of Acceptability" shall meet in
the intended
application of the power supply in the end product.
. The supply must be recognized for use in Information Technology
Equipment
including Electrical Business Equipment per UL 60950-1 First Edition. The
certification must include external enclosure testing for the AC
receptacle side of
the power supply (see Appendices A, B, C, and D)."

Second, were I looking for a SLI (or cross-fire, but why?) system, I'd
look for a supply with four +12VDC rails. That ought to cover all bases;
adequate power +12VDC for each category (CPU, display adapter 1, display
adapter 2, and motherboard/drives), safety (no possibility of an internal
hair dryer, exploding screwdrivers or cockroaches), and valid
certification.

Certification to UL standards is EXPENSIVE. I'd bet that there are lots
of power supply manufacturers that mention UL standards, but that haven't
paid for the testing and certification. See my cite from an earlier post
in this thread

"A similar question is followed up at
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/183/3/ ."

I've submitted a query about actual testing and UL certification to PC
Power & Cooling. I hope they will be as forthcoming as the manufacturer
in
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/183/3/ .

Finally, PC Power & Cooling plays a little fast and loose with other
assertions in their website 'Power Supply Myths" section.

Phil Weldon

PC Power and Cooling still make a great PSU........:-). I have been using
them for years without any issues at all. I have a Silencer 750 SLI in
this system with a couple of 8800GTX cards and it has been going strong
for......geeze, about a year now. Doesn't seem it has been that long since
we did these projects, does it Phil??.........


Ed

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
...
'Ed Medlin' wrote:
PC Power and Cooling still make a great PSU........:-). I have been using
them for years without any issues at all. I have a Silencer 750 SLI in
this system with a couple of 8800GTX cards and it has been going strong
for......geeze, about a year now. Doesn't seem it has been that long
since we did these projects, does it Phil??.........
_____

I emailed PC Power & Cooling about UL certification 60950-1. PC Power &
Cooling replied that their power supplies are certified, and gave me the
certificate number.

"If you go to the UL website and enter our file number of E131500 you can
see all of our UL certifications. They are done to UL 60950-1. All of our
supplies are ATX12V compliant and all of the supplies of the Silencer 610
EPS12V and higher in wattage are EPS12V compliant.
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/t.../gfilenbr.html "

I have no doubt that PC Power & Cooling makes good power supplies. What I
don't understand is how some of the certifications can be made without
knowing the system where they will be used.


I pretty much gave up trying to understand how they can do that a long time
ago. It isn't just PC P&C either. I suppose about all major manufacturers
could go into the same boat.


As for our projects, no, it seems like just last year... oh, it was just
last year, exactly! I am trying to hold off on anything major until the
'Nehalem'. But the incremental expenses for my jones are killing me. I
just installed Windows Vista Home Ultimate (got tired of going back and
forth from my notebook to my overclocked desktop) and Vista SP1. Then I
saw a Creative sound card I couldn't live without; now that requires a
Creative I/O drive for midi I/O and front panel connections. And then
there is my new 22" wide screen LCD. By the time 'Nehalem' I won't be
able to afford it B^( And it seems that alt.comp.hardware.overclocking
will be in a lull until the 'Nelham' does arrive.

How is your clock modification doing?

Phil Weldon



LOL.........I have too much time on my hands I guess. I actually had Vista
Ultimate 32 in my drive yesterday and backed out. Did SP1 help at all? I
also added a Creative card not long ago but didn't do the front panel. I
just got a new toy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2030475...7604034308504/ that will
probably delay me from upgrading for a little bit.....:-). That should get
me back into the woods for my photo work.....:-). ACHO is pretty dead right
now. Everything is so easy now that I don't see the old "glory" days coming
back. Well, my daughter-in-law went into the hospital at 10am so I expect to
be a granddad today for the first time so a trip down to S. TX will be
forthcoming......probably around the first of April. All of this will
probably put a Nehalem system back to about this Fall sometime.


Grandpa Ed