Screen Resolution

Modern cards and displays don't use "drivers" (which as someone
correctly noted, are not drivers at all).

The "modern" system is to use a DVI interface, which includes a two-way
DATA channel between the video card and the monitor called the DDC
(display data channel). On startup, the monitor and the video card
"talk" to each other, and the monitor tells the video card what
resolutions and refresh rates it supports.

Unfortunately, the analog VGA interface has no such capability.

* Barry Watzman:

1990's would include cards from 1990 to 1999

Ok, I now see how it was meant. In this term you're right of course...

Benjamin

* The Kat:

Wrong. Of course your card "did know" about widescreen resolutions. But
the drivers from ATI and also Nvidia only list them when the gfx(!)
driver recognizes a widescreen display...

The card DIDN'T know, the drivers that came WITH the display did.

There are no monitor drivers. Period.

The card could HANDLE the new resolution,
but the ATI drivers didn't offer it

The ATI drivers of course CAN handle it. But it does not list wide
screen resolutions when it doesn't detect a widescreen monitor. The
driver usually gets this information told by the monitor over the DDC
channel, and as soon as the monitor tells the ATI driver all resolutions
it supports then they are available in the display properties...

I happen to have a display with 1680x1050 myself (Dell 2005FPW), and I
have connected dozens of newer and older cards which includes Radeon
9700, 9600, 9200, 9000, 8500, 7500, 7300 and 7000. ALL of them worked
fine in 1680x1050 WITHOUT any "monitor driver", because the ATI drivers
DO support widescreen resolution out of the box...

Yes, an .inf file. and the one with the display offered resolutions
the ATI setup didn't, and doesn't.

Again, that's wrong. The Catalyst drivers do know about widescreen
resolutions for ages (if it wouldn't know them then it simply wouldn't
be able to display these resolution, inf file or not). The inf file is
only necessary when the driver can't get the monitor information over
the DDC channel for some reason (i.e. crappy monitor that doesn't
provide correct DDC informations, some hardware problem with video
cable/gfx card, some software problem like incorrectly deinstalled
drivers etc). In this case the ATI drivers relies on the monitor inf
file to decide which resolutions the monitor supports and which to
offer. The inf file does NOT (and can not!) add new resolutions to the
driver.

BTW: this question ("why are no widescreen modes listed in the display
properties") has been asked dozens of times in the past, and also has
been explained often enough, too. It would have have taken just a few
seconds to do a search with groups.google.com for you to find out about
how this really works...

The person who started this thread said he doesn't play 3D games,
and 2D performance isn't going to gain much, if anything, when
putting a new video card into an older system.

Since 2D functions are almost completely done by the GPU for almost 10
years now the amount of performance increase in 2D is not dependend on
how fast the system is...

Benjamin

* Barry Watzman:

The "modern" system is to use a DVI interface, which includes a two-way
DATA channel between the video card and the monitor called the DDC
(display data channel). On startup, the monitor and the video card
"talk" to each other, and the monitor tells the video card what
resolutions and refresh rates it supports.

Right...

Unfortunately, the analog VGA interface has no such capability.

Of course it has. DDC exists also on VGA and is supported by all gfx
cards at least since the Matrox Millenium PCI, and by most better CRTs
for almost 10 years now...

Benjamin

Canid wrote:
I just bought a new monitor and the recommended screen resolution is
1680x1050
This is not on the list when I try to change the resolution.
I have a "ATI 3D Rage Pro AGP 2X (GT-C2U2)" graphics card, what can I
do about this problem?

Latest driver for the Rage Pro:
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/...uestionID=1298

If that doesn't work, try to make a 'custom resolution' with a program like
'Powerstrip':
http://entechtaiwan.net/util/ps.shtm

Good luck!

--
Grtz, Thomas.

Ok, on which of the 15 pins is the DDC implemented?

[you can get a list of the VGA connector pinout he
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_VGA_PinOuts.html]

There are 4 bits for "monitor ID", but the standard interface doesn't
have a DDC communication channel as far as I know.


Benjamin Gawert wrote:

* Barry Watzman:

The "modern" system is to use a DVI interface, which includes a
two-way DATA channel between the video card and the monitor called the
DDC (display data channel). On startup, the monitor and the video
card "talk" to each other, and the monitor tells the video card what
resolutions and refresh rates it supports.


Right...

Unfortunately, the analog VGA interface has no such capability.


Of course it has. DDC exists also on VGA and is supported by all gfx
cards at least since the Matrox Millenium PCI, and by most better CRTs
for almost 10 years now...

Benjamin

* Barry Watzman:

Ok, on which of the 15 pins is the DDC implemented?

[you can get a list of the VGA connector pinout he
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_VGA_PinOuts.html]

This listing is way outdated, it only lists the pinout of the original
IBM VGA adapter almost 20 years ago...

Here is a more up2date link:
http://www.technick.net/public/code/cp_dpage.php?aiocp_dp=pinconvid_vga_vesa_ddc
This is what all somewhat newer gfx cards (i.e. most VESA Localbus and
MCA cards, all PCI/AGP/PCIe gfx cards) use...

But it also would have been enough if you'd at least read the page you
reffered to because on the bottom it refers to SVGA with what also DDC
has been introduced...

There are 4 bits for "monitor ID", but the standard interface doesn't
have a DDC communication channel as far as I know.

It does.

BTW: would you please STOP SENDING EMAIL COPIES of your usenet postings?
Discussion starts here and takes place here and not by mail. Sending
email copies is regarded as very rude behavior, especially when there is
absolutely no reason to do so. So please stop doing that. Thanks!

Benjamin

I'd argue with you that since we both found different pinouts for the
VGA connector, and since your own reference for the later pinout then
goes on to state that "There are 3 different protocols defined for DDC"
......

That the only real conclusion is that DDC on a VGA analog display system
(monitor and video card) is simply not fully standardized and therefore
cannot be assumed or expected with a random monitor (many of which are
5+ years old) and a random video card (probably newer, but not
guaranteed to be 2006 new). Sure there may be combinations of some
monitors and some display cards where it's implemented and works in a
compatible manner, but there are probably a lot more where it doesn't
work due to not being implemented (or being implemented differently) on
either the monitor or the card.


Benjamin Gawert wrote:

* Barry Watzman:

Ok, on which of the 15 pins is the DDC implemented?

[you can get a list of the VGA connector pinout he
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_VGA_PinOuts.html]


This listing is way outdated, it only lists the pinout of the original
IBM VGA adapter almost 20 years ago...

Here is a more up2date link:
http://www.technick.net/public/code/cp_dpage.php?aiocp_dp=pinconvid_vga_vesa_ddc

This is what all somewhat newer gfx cards (i.e. most VESA Localbus and
MCA cards, all PCI/AGP/PCIe gfx cards) use...

But it also would have been enough if you'd at least read the page you
reffered to because on the bottom it refers to SVGA with what also DDC
has been introduced...

There are 4 bits for "monitor ID", but the standard interface doesn't
have a DDC communication channel as far as I know.


It does.

BTW: would you please STOP SENDING EMAIL COPIES of your usenet postings?
Discussion starts here and takes place here and not by mail. Sending
email copies is regarded as very rude behavior, especially when there is
absolutely no reason to do so. So please stop doing that. Thanks!

Benjamin

"Canid" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'd consider it if it would make a real difference.
I have no intention of hooking up our computer as a television/dvd
player and I'm not a gamer. I browse the net and paint in photoshop.
Would updating my graphics card make a difference to those activities?

Regarding the other option though, would downloading this diver solve
my problem?
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/...uestionID=1298

Thank-you everyone for your continuing help here.


Barry Watzman wrote:
I understand the principle of your post, but that card is really, really
ancient, I think it's from the 1990's. In this case, you really should
replace the card (and not just because of the resolution). Look, you
can buy a used 32 or 64 megabyte ATI Radeon 7500 or something like that
for probabaly $10 to $20 and you will have a somewhat modern card, with
DVI and analog dual outputs, that has a chance of supporting your new
modern display. To continue using a card THAT old is nuts.

My oldest PC has a Rage Pro. It has 4MB video ram. On the next computer I
started with a Xpert98 which has 8MB video ram, then went to a 128pro. The
speed up from 8 to the 32MB cards was significant displaying pictures from
my scanner.
These are P2 & P3 systems respectively. At some point, upgrading to better
video cards, the rest of your system becomes the bottleneck. I think chances
of getting bang for the buck are high though.

That listing is for the original VGA pinout [from 20 years ago]. There
are other pages on the site which list a more up-dated pinout. The page
called SVGA lists the most up-to-date pinout.

I've corrected the wording so people don't think the VGA pinout is
being used these days.

Leroy


Benjamin Gawert wrote:
* Barry Watzman:

Ok, on which of the 15 pins is the DDC implemented?

[you can get a list of the VGA connector pinout he
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_VGA_PinOuts.html]

This listing is way outdated, it only lists the pinout of the original
IBM VGA adapter almost 20 years ago...

Here is a more up2date link:
http://www.technick.net/public/code/cp_dpage.php?aiocp_dp=pinconvid_vga_vesa_ddc
This is what all somewhat newer gfx cards (i.e. most VESA Localbus and
MCA cards, all PCI/AGP/PCIe gfx cards) use...

But it also would have been enough if you'd at least read the page you
reffered to because on the bottom it refers to SVGA with what also DDC
has been introduced...

There are 4 bits for "monitor ID", but the standard interface doesn't
have a DDC communication channel as far as I know.

It does.

BTW: would you please STOP SENDING EMAIL COPIES of your usenet postings?
Discussion starts here and takes place here and not by mail. Sending
email copies is regarded as very rude behavior, especially when there is
absolutely no reason to do so. So please stop doing that. Thanks!

Benjamin