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#11
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What's a good new ~24" monitor or even a TV (smart & 4K R OK)?
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2020-12-17 7:08 p.m., Ant wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 2020-12-17 5:55 p.m., Ant wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 2020-12-17 3:30 p.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 2020-12-17 3:00 p.m., Paul wrote: Ant wrote: What's a good new ~24" monitor or even a TV (smart and 4K are OK, but please no Roku since their RCs are awful without numbers for cable & OTA inputs) for mostly computers (Internet, meetings, Office, etc.), gaming, videos (locally and online), etc.? It will be placed on an office desk. It also needs to have old VGA (DVI adapter if needed) and HDMI. Composite and other old connections are OK. Budget isn't an issue. Anything good from Amazon, Costco, Best Buy, etc. online and in their So. CA stores? I'd like to buy it before this crazy year ends too. Thank you for reading and hopefully answering soon. Use the selector on Newegg and turn on the connector mix you want. The returned list should be short. VGA is no longer provided on video cards. This removes the incentive to have VGA on the monitor. Benq make a couple well equipped monitors, but these use a TN panel. 170/160 viewing angle. https://www.newegg.com/benq-gl2780-2...82E16824014656 This one ships from Asia, has a 178/178 screen (could be better than TN), has VGA and HDMI, no DVI. It's a bit on the expensive side for what you get. https://www.newegg.com/dark-blue-gra...9SIAHSBBJ32087 You're about two years too late for a "selection". ******* This comes pretty close. Don't know what part of China it ships from. Maybe it actually ships from Amazon ? "Philips 276E9QDSB 27" frameless monitor, Full HD IPS" HDMI, DVI-D, VGA, and audio out https://www.amazon.com/Philips-276E9.../dp/B07CLMDH3K Paul I have 2 of these, IPS 178-178 deg viewing angle.2 HDMI and one VGA port if you need it, I use HDMI on both machines, Great monitors. https://www.amazon.ca/Asus-Designo-M...239875&sr=8-52 Rene BTW forgot to mention, those are Canadian prices on Amazon.ca and they have 8 in stock, no long waits, I paid $300.00 each when I bought mine so the price has come down some. There are so many choices on Newegg and Amazon that it is hard to choose. :-) Rene Crap. I just realized 27" is too big so I revised my title and post. As for VGA, I still have very old PCs with VGA and DVI. :/ I might get https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-VS248H-P...dp/B0058UUR6E/ which I use which work well. Aren't curved screens annoying for doing editings and stuff? No one use their TVs as their computer monitors to have more features like OTA, cable, players, etc. beside computers? Looks like a great deal port wise and price, But is it a TN or IPS panel? I did not see that spec. I would never go back to a TN panel. I have no idea. What's speical about them? The one I have is LED. I tried a curved panel just for fun, Great for games but not so hot for text. OK, no curved screens for me again. Even in Arclight Cinema's Dome theater in Hollywood was annoying like cropped subtitles. The two main differences are colour fidelity and viewing angle. TN panes have a small viewing angle, you need to be nearly directly in front of them or you get drastic colour shift and fading, their viewing angle is typically 120 to 160 degrees. An IPS panel has a viewing angle of 178 in both axis, so you can view them nearly from the side without losing colour or contrast. IPS panels have a much wider colour gamut and their colours are more brilliant and true to life, Much better than TN. Do a google search for IPS versus TN panels and you will find numerous articles which go into it in far more detail than I can. Rene On my laptop, to get "sorta OK" color with TN, requires tipping the panel at a certain angle. Which is annoying. There's only one good position for your head, with respect to the panel. While my desktop display is not a Twisted Nematic and with that one, there's basically no special angle to be at. You just use that one. There are many flavors of IPS and VA, to suit the patent system. The manufacturers don't want to pay a lot of license fees, which is why they tweak the design a bit. And that means all the IPS ones, don't have to be exactly the same in terms of qualities. If you do photography, and need correct colors, the dynamic contrast in the monitor needs to be turned off. A monitor advertising 80000000:1 dynamic range and 1000:1 with it switched off, they modulate the backlight in the first case, a kind of "fake dynamic range". For photographic work, you go into the OSD and turn it off, so the "actual, stable, raw" 1000:1 behavior of the panel is at work, and the backlight stays at a constant level while you work. The silly 80000000:1 thing is supposed to be for movie playback. Paul |
#12
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What's a good new ~24" monitor or even a TV (smart & 4K R OK)?
Paul wrote:
.... Crap. I just realized 27" is too big so I revised my title and post. As for VGA, I still have very old PCs with VGA and DVI. :/ I might get https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-VS248H-P...dp/B0058UUR6E/ which I used which work well from its older model (VS2474H). Aren't curved screens annoying for doing editings and stuff? No one use their TVs as their computer monitors to have more features like OTA, cable, players, etc. beside computers? Looks like a great deal port wise and price, But is it a TN or IPS panel? I did not see that spec. I would never go back to a TN panel. I have no idea. What's special about them? The one I have is LED. It doesn't look like the old monitor has it. Mine was from the end of 2014. The two main differences are colour fidelity and viewing angle. TN panes have a small viewing angle, you need to be nearly directly in front of them or you get drastic colour shift and fading, their viewing angle is typically 120 to 160 degrees. An IPS panel has a viewing angle of 178 in both axis, so you can view them nearly from the side without losing colour or contrast. IPS panels have a much wider colour gamut and their colours are more brilliant and true to life, Much better than TN. Do a google search for IPS versus TN panels and you will find numerous articles which go into it in far more detail than I can. On my laptop, to get "sorta OK" color with TN, requires tipping the panel at a certain angle. Which is annoying. There's only one good position for your head, with respect to the panel. While my desktop display is not a Twisted Nematic and with that one, there's basically no special angle to be at. You just use that one. There are many flavors of IPS and VA, to suit the patent system. The manufacturers don't want to pay a lot of license fees, which is why they tweak the design a bit. And that means all the IPS ones, don't have to be exactly the same in terms of qualities. Ugh!! What's VA? Is it me or do IPS have higher response rates like 5-8 ms compared to 1-2 ms for non-IPS? Aren't those still important today? I hated the old LCDs that showed trails. Same for pure blackness, etc. Hence, why I preferred CRTS back then. If you do photography, and need correct colors, the dynamic contrast in the monitor needs to be turned off. A monitor advertising 80000000:1 dynamic range and 1000:1 with it switched off, they modulate the backlight in the first case, a kind of "fake dynamic range". For photographic work, you go into the OSD and turn it off, so the "actual, stable, raw" 1000:1 behavior of the panel is at work, and the backlight stays at a constant level while you work. The silly 80000000:1 thing is supposed to be for movie playback. I don't do graphic, photography, gaming, etc. a lot like I used to like back in the 90 and early 2000s when I did web designs and developments. It's mostly for viewing these days. Heh, 2014 monitor can do 50,000,000:1 for its high contrast. It seems fine to me. I also still use old VGA+DVI for my over decade old PCs and their video cards (DVI-VGA adapters) with their OmniCube KVM from Y2K (still work!). :P I'm still struggling to find a good display (TV/monitor) to meet my requirements. -- Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays / Season's Greetings! Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org. / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. | |o o| | \ _ / ( ) |
#13
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What's a good new ~24" monitor or even a TV (smart & 4K R OK)?
Ant wrote:
Paul wrote: ... Crap. I just realized 27" is too big so I revised my title and post. As for VGA, I still have very old PCs with VGA and DVI. :/ I might get https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-VS248H-P...dp/B0058UUR6E/ which I used which work well from its older model (VS2474H). Aren't curved screens annoying for doing editings and stuff? No one use their TVs as their computer monitors to have more features like OTA, cable, players, etc. beside computers? Looks like a great deal port wise and price, But is it a TN or IPS panel? I did not see that spec. I would never go back to a TN panel. I have no idea. What's special about them? The one I have is LED. It doesn't look like the old monitor has it. Mine was from the end of 2014. The two main differences are colour fidelity and viewing angle. TN panes have a small viewing angle, you need to be nearly directly in front of them or you get drastic colour shift and fading, their viewing angle is typically 120 to 160 degrees. An IPS panel has a viewing angle of 178 in both axis, so you can view them nearly from the side without losing colour or contrast. IPS panels have a much wider colour gamut and their colours are more brilliant and true to life, Much better than TN. Do a google search for IPS versus TN panels and you will find numerous articles which go into it in far more detail than I can. On my laptop, to get "sorta OK" color with TN, requires tipping the panel at a certain angle. Which is annoying. There's only one good position for your head, with respect to the panel. While my desktop display is not a Twisted Nematic and with that one, there's basically no special angle to be at. You just use that one. There are many flavors of IPS and VA, to suit the patent system. The manufacturers don't want to pay a lot of license fees, which is why they tweak the design a bit. And that means all the IPS ones, don't have to be exactly the same in terms of qualities. Ugh!! What's VA? Is it me or do IPS have higher response rates like 5-8 ms compared to 1-2 ms for non-IPS? Aren't those still important today? I hated the old LCDs that showed trails. Same for pure blackness, etc. Hence, why I preferred CRTS back then. Only the VA gets a failing grade here on ghosting. https://www.howtogeek.com/658701/tn-...el-technology/ Paul |
#14
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What's a good new ~24" monitor or even a TV (smart & 4K R OK)?
Paul wrote:
Ant wrote: Paul wrote: ... Crap. I just realized 27" is too big so I revised my title and post. As for VGA, I still have very old PCs with VGA and DVI. :/ I might get https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-VS248H-P...dp/B0058UUR6E/ which I used which work well from its older model (VS2474H). Aren't curved screens annoying for doing editings and stuff? No one use their TVs as their computer monitors to have more features like OTA, cable, players, etc. beside computers? Looks like a great deal port wise and price, But is it a TN or IPS panel? I did not see that spec. I would never go back to a TN panel. I have no idea. What's special about them? The one I have is LED. It doesn't look like the old monitor has it. Mine was from the end of 2014. The two main differences are colour fidelity and viewing angle. TN panes have a small viewing angle, you need to be nearly directly in front of them or you get drastic colour shift and fading, their viewing angle is typically 120 to 160 degrees. An IPS panel has a viewing angle of 178 in both axis, so you can view them nearly from the side without losing colour or contrast. IPS panels have a much wider colour gamut and their colours are more brilliant and true to life, Much better than TN. Do a google search for IPS versus TN panels and you will find numerous articles which go into it in far more detail than I can. On my laptop, to get "sorta OK" color with TN, requires tipping the panel at a certain angle. Which is annoying. There's only one good position for your head, with respect to the panel. While my desktop display is not a Twisted Nematic and with that one, there's basically no special angle to be at. You just use that one. There are many flavors of IPS and VA, to suit the patent system. The manufacturers don't want to pay a lot of license fees, which is why they tweak the design a bit. And that means all the IPS ones, don't have to be exactly the same in terms of qualities. Ugh!! What's VA? Is it me or do IPS have higher response rates like 5-8 ms compared to 1-2 ms for non-IPS? Aren't those still important today? I hated the old LCDs that showed trails. Same for pure blackness, etc. Hence, why I preferred CRTS back then. Only the VA gets a failing grade here on ghosting. https://www.howtogeek.com/658701/tn-...el-technology/ Interesting old TN is best for lowest response rate. VA is the worse for it. -- Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays / Season's Greetings! Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org. / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. | |o o| | \ _ / ( ) |
#15
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What's a good new ~24" monitor or even a TV (smart & 4K R OK)?
On 2020-12-18 3:05 a.m., Ant wrote:
Paul wrote: Ant wrote: Paul wrote: ... Crap. I just realized 27" is too big so I revised my title and post. As for VGA, I still have very old PCs with VGA and DVI. :/ I might get https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-VS248H-P...dp/B0058UUR6E/ which I used which work well from its older model (VS2474H). Aren't curved screens annoying for doing editings and stuff? No one use their TVs as their computer monitors to have more features like OTA, cable, players, etc. beside computers? Looks like a great deal port wise and price, But is it a TN or IPS panel? I did not see that spec. I would never go back to a TN panel. I have no idea. What's special about them? The one I have is LED. It doesn't look like the old monitor has it. Mine was from the end of 2014. The two main differences are colour fidelity and viewing angle. TN panes have a small viewing angle, you need to be nearly directly in front of them or you get drastic colour shift and fading, their viewing angle is typically 120 to 160 degrees. An IPS panel has a viewing angle of 178 in both axis, so you can view them nearly from the side without losing colour or contrast. IPS panels have a much wider colour gamut and their colours are more brilliant and true to life, Much better than TN. Do a google search for IPS versus TN panels and you will find numerous articles which go into it in far more detail than I can. On my laptop, to get "sorta OK" color with TN, requires tipping the panel at a certain angle. Which is annoying. There's only one good position for your head, with respect to the panel. While my desktop display is not a Twisted Nematic and with that one, there's basically no special angle to be at. You just use that one. There are many flavors of IPS and VA, to suit the patent system. The manufacturers don't want to pay a lot of license fees, which is why they tweak the design a bit. And that means all the IPS ones, don't have to be exactly the same in terms of qualities. Ugh!! What's VA? Is it me or do IPS have higher response rates like 5-8 ms compared to 1-2 ms for non-IPS? Aren't those still important today? I hated the old LCDs that showed trails. Same for pure blackness, etc. Hence, why I preferred CRTS back then. Only the VA gets a failing grade here on ghosting. https://www.howtogeek.com/658701/tn-...el-technology/ Interesting old TN is best for lowest response rate. VA is the worse for it. Anything below 4 or 5 ms GtoG seems quite adequate even for gaming, My 27 inch Asus units are 5 ms GtoG and their is no trailing or ghosting. Rene |
#16
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What's a good new 24"+ monitor or even a TV (smart & 4K R OK)?
Ant wrote:
What's a good new 24"+ monitor or even a TV (smart and 4K are OK, but please no Roku since their RCs are awful without numbers for cable & OTA inputs) for mostly computers (Internet, meetings, Office, etc.), gaming, videos (locally and online), etc.? It will be placed on an office desk. It also needs to have old VGA (DVI adapter if needed) and HDMI. Composite and other old connections are OK. Budget isn't an issue. Anything good from Amazon, Costco, Best Buy, etc. online and in their So. CA stores? I'd like to buy it before this crazy year ends too. Thank you for reading and hopefully answering soon. After doing quite a lot of research, I bought a Dell Ultrasharp monitor and I have been really pleased with it (it's over 10 years old now). I appreciate "crisp-ness"--nice sharp characters. I see they come in more "flavors" now, with 4K being over $600. 27" one is $378 and 24" one is $158 at Amazon right now. Read some of the reviews. Note: These aren't really "gaming monitors" (i.e. not highly-responsive, I think). I am not an expert, and their may be better deals out there, but I don't think you would be disappointed if you went with this monitor. I will likely buy it again. Best of luck with your decision! Question for the experts: What is the significant advantage of the 4k model (I will investigate this for myself). Seems to be 50% higher resolution than the other comparable 27" version. I might call Dell can see if there was a place I could view the monitors in person. They had a temporary space in our local mall once. I'd drive 50 miles to see with my own eyes before spending $600! : ) |
#17
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What's a good new 24"+ monitor or even a TV (smart & 4K R OK)?
Bill wrote:
Ant wrote: What's a good new 24"+ monitor or even a TV (smart and 4K are OK, but please no Roku since their RCs are awful without numbers for cable & OTA inputs) for mostly computers (Internet, meetings, Office, etc.), gaming, videos (locally and online), etc.? It will be placed on an office desk. It also needs to have old VGA (DVI adapter if needed) and HDMI. Composite and other old connections are OK. Budget isn't an issue. Anything good from Amazon, Costco, Best Buy, etc. online and in their So. CA stores? I'd like to buy it before this crazy year ends too. Thank you for reading and hopefully answering soon. After doing quite a lot of research, I bought a Dell Ultrasharp monitor and I have been really pleased with it (it's over 10 years old now). I appreciate "crisp-ness"--nice sharp characters. I see they come in more "flavors" now, with 4K being over $600. 27" one is $378 and 24" one is $158 at Amazon right now. Read some of the reviews. Note: These aren't really "gaming monitors" (i.e. not highly-responsive, I think). I am not an expert, and their may be better deals out there, but I don't think you would be disappointed if you went with this monitor. I will likely buy it again. Best of luck with your decision! Question for the experts: What is the significant advantage of the 4k model (I will investigate this for myself). Seems to be 50% higher resolution than the other comparable 27" version. I might call Dell can see if there was a place I could view the monitors in person. They had a temporary space in our local mall once. I'd drive 50 miles to see with my own eyes before spending $600! : ) Typically, 4K guinea pigs have to solve all sorts of HiDPI situations. Maybe this is solved by now, but in the past there were challenges for the adventurous. Windows 10 would have HiDPI support. WinXP would not. Applications can have HiDPI support (a modern enough Firefox might). I would have games here that don't have suitable textures for 4K operation. It's bound to be a learning experience, even today. Just not as bad as it used to be. I'm sure the very first 4K owner, felt like a "victim". You might also find policing of HDCP is more precise. That's encryption on the cable, of the screen image. This only tends to bite you, if using HDMI buffer boxes or something. A direct computer to monitor connection should "just work". A certain level of HDCP was cracked, but HDCP 2.0 or 2.1 or so, is more secure. And you may see mention of a certain HDCP level (and support) as a requirement for some of these monitors. Security has also extended to the video card. The video card can have an enclave for decoding, a section of memory that "cannot be copied". This is to prevent copying of frame buffers to get around HDCP. Does this prevent "Print Screen" from working ? You got me there. No idea. Windows 10 has removed pan and scan mode. To compare, I can still do this on Linux. I can use a 1440x900 monitor, set Xorg to 4096x4096 resolution, and as the mouse cursor "bangs against" the side of the screen, the 1440x900 viewing window into the 4096x4096 surface moves its origin. This feature also used to work on Windows, and it was as simple as defining a custom resolution in the NVidia control panel. If the res was larger than the terminal, it could pan and scan as a result. Maybe the first graphics to support this, was some SIS thing, as someone reported doing that years ago. And I have done a screen capture, in that higher res environment (not that anyone cares). It's probably too large to post to my image sharing site. Paul |
#18
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What's a good new 24"+ monitor or even a TV (smart & 4K R OK)?
Paul wrote:
Bill wrote: Ant wrote: What's a good new 24"+ monitor or even a TV (smart and 4K are OK, but please no Roku since their RCs are awful without numbers for cable & OTA inputs) for mostly computers (Internet, meetings, Office, etc.), gaming, videos (locally and online), etc.? It will be placed on an office desk. It also needs to have old VGA (DVI adapter if needed) and HDMI. Composite and other old connections are OK. Budget isn't an issue. Anything good from Amazon, Costco, Best Buy, etc. online and in their So. CA stores? I'd like to buy it before this crazy year ends too. Thank you for reading and hopefully answering soon. After doing quite a lot of research, I bought a Dell Ultrasharp monitor and I have been really pleased with it (it's over 10 years old now). I appreciate "crisp-ness"--nice sharp characters. I see they come in more "flavors" now, with 4K being over $600. 27" one is $378 and 24" one is $158 at Amazon right now. Read some of the reviews. Note: These aren't really "gaming monitors" (i.e. not highly-responsive, I think). I am not an expert, and their may be better deals out there, but I don't think you would be disappointed if you went with this monitor. I will likely buy it again. Best of luck with your decision! Question for the experts: What is the significant advantage of the 4k model (I will investigate this for myself). Seems to be 50% higher resolution than the other comparable 27" version. I might call Dell can see if there was a place I could view the monitors in person. They had a temporary space in our local mall once. I'd drive 50 miles to see with my own eyes before spending $600! : ) One other thing. Make sure your video card can put out 4K resolution at 60Hz. Some of the HDMI/DP standards don't work at full screen rate. You can do, say, 24Hz for movie playback (should look great), but a 24Hz setup would suck for every other purpose. Check the Wikipedia articles on HDMI and DisplayPort, for more info on "decent minimum spec" levels for the video card end to be delivering. When you buy the monitor, don't forget to buy a cable. Some cheapskates don't put cables in the box for you. Maybe an HDMI and no DP. Or vice versa. There are many possibilities. At least (most of the time), there's a power cord :-) Paul |
#19
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What's a good new 24"+ monitor or even a TV (smart & 4K R OK)?
Paul wrote:
When you buy the monitor, don't forget to buy a cable. Some cheapskates don't put cables in the box for you. Maybe an HDMI and no DP. Or vice versa. Since you brought it up: Is one of HDMI or DP better? My "wild-guess" would be that DP is better since it appears more-sophisticated. But that's not much to stand on... |
#20
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What's a good new 24"+ monitor or even a TV (smart & 4K R OK)?
Bill wrote:
Paul wrote: When you buy the monitor, don't forget to buy a cable. Some cheapskates don't put cables in the box for you. Maybe an HDMI and no DP. Or vice versa. Since you brought it up: Is one of HDMI or DP better? My "wild-guess" would be that DP is better since it appears more-sophisticated. But that's not much to stand on... DP has the edge on whizzy display size/rate. I don't know if there is a significant difference in cable drive on the two standards. They tend not to spec max cable length either. I don't know how the customer figures out what cable is good enough. The clock rate on the cable, is a function of resolution, so a 1280x720 signal might go 50 feet, while an 8K resolution might go 6 feet, on the same type of cable. You'll see colored snow, if there is a bit error rate present. If HDCP is running, I don't know if there is an error multiplier effect there or not. ******* One thing you should know, is that the video card is kinda booby-trapped. I learned this the hard way. You would think that the termination detection, would make computer startup easy. Say a port has a cable and a monitor connected. There are 100 ohm diff terminations on each color gun. The transmitter (video card end) can sense that a termination is present. There's no reflection coming back, for one thing. However, the video card firmware has other ideas. The video card might look like this. DVI-D HDMI miniDP --- Paul connects his monitor here miniDP miniDP miniDP Now the BIOS starts, and the damn screen is black. This is what the video card is doing. DVI-D HDMI ----- Signal shoots out here :-/ miniDP --- Paul connects his monitor here miniDP miniDP miniDP What the video card is telling you is, "you should have connected your monitor to HDMI, stupid". And I thought that was pretty funny. Now, I drew that faceplate like that on purpose. Two connectors are "primary", and are part of the "dual head" traditional video card design. The four DP connectors (or miniDP) have a different status. Yes, they're on the crossbar, yes, signal can be routed to them, but the "dual head" part of the picture is a bit overpowering at startup, and the video card just loves to pamper those two. That's why the DP gets the shaft. I keep both DP to VGA and HDMI to VGA adapters here, so I'm ready for this sort of thing. My LCD monitors are ancient (and one is cheep). And VGA is all they got. By all means, pretend you have a choice and everything works properly. But, you'll probably be surprised like Paul was, when signal comes out where it was not expected. Now that I keep my monitor on HDMI (HDMI to VGA), no more problems. It never jerks me around by putting the signal on DP, when the cable is on HDMI. Study your video card, and see if the faceplate is making any hints about preferred ports. It never occurred to me at the time. And a number of times, the card managed to start and drive out on DP. But then, when the screen goes black on you every once in a while, it will eventually dawn on you, that just maybe, the dual head notion wins, and the card really doesn't want to start reliably on a secondary port. Paul |
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