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#61
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Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS
On 04/06/2012 19:28, Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 04/06/2012 9:20 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , Yousuf Khan writes: On 03/06/2012 2:28 AM, DK wrote: I do. Stacker was absolutely great! But DoubleSpace was horrible. I lost a lot of data due to that one. Yousuf Khan Basically, it put all your files into one file, didn't it? So you could lose it/them all at once if that file got corrupted. And yet, people continue to use email (and possibly news) software that does that (for emails), ... Yup, not that I knew that at the time when first installing it. I just assumed that Microsoft knew what it was doing when it created DoubleSpace. Actually, is there _any_ email software (XP, 7, or even '9x) that stores each email as a separate real file? (In real folders/directories?) Thunderbird keeps all of its newsgroup messages in separate files. But email is kept in a single file. To be picky, Thunderbird keeps each e-mail folder in a pair of files. the $mailboxname.sdb file is a container for the messages, and the .msf file contains info about those messages. So, if you have a folder in the inbox per sender, then there is a file pair per sender. Newsgroups are similar, but there is also an extra file per server, telling TB which groups are on that server. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#62
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Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS
In message , John Williamson
writes: On 04/06/2012 19:28, Yousuf Khan wrote: On 04/06/2012 9:20 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , Yousuf Khan writes: On 03/06/2012 2:28 AM, DK wrote: I do. Stacker was absolutely great! But DoubleSpace was horrible. I lost a lot of data due to that one. Yousuf Khan Basically, it put all your files into one file, didn't it? So you could lose it/them all at once if that file got corrupted. And yet, people continue to use email (and possibly news) software that does that (for emails), ... Yup, not that I knew that at the time when first installing it. I just assumed that Microsoft knew what it was doing when it created DoubleSpace. Actually, is there _any_ email software (XP, 7, or even '9x) that stores each email as a separate real file? (In real folders/directories?) Thunderbird keeps all of its newsgroup messages in separate files. But email is kept in a single file. To be picky, Thunderbird keeps each e-mail folder in a pair of files. the $mailboxname.sdb file is a container for the messages, and the .msf file contains info about those messages. So, if you have a folder in the inbox per sender, then there is a file pair per sender. Newsgroups are similar, but there is also an extra file per server, telling TB which groups are on that server. Thanks, interesting. So it _still_ isn't keeping _individual emails_ (or news posts) in individual files, so several (possibly many) can be lost if a single file is corrupted. (Not that, AFAIK, _any_ email/news client does. Unless maybe a DOS or possibly a Linux/Unix one.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Herman Hollerith is buried 9 edge, face down. |
#63
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Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
... Actually, is there _any_ email software (XP, 7, or even '9x) that stores each email as a separate real file? (In real folders/directories?) Microsoft's Windows Mail (Vista) and Windows Live Mail (Win 7) store each email message as a separate .eml file and each newsgroup message as a separate .nws file, within filesystem folder/directory structures that match the structure in the email program, apart from slight truncation of email folder names when generating the corresponding filesystem folder name. It's very useful to be able to edit or annotate .eml files (using a text editor) - the only proviso is that you must not be looking at the message in WM or WLM at the time (and it may be safer to close WM/WLM altogether). The advantage of one-file-per-email is that you can edit messages and that file corruption affects only one message. The advantage of Outlook Express's (and Outlook's) approach is that it is quicker to search one .dbx file per email folder or one .pst file for all emails than it is to open and search many .eml files. Thunderbird keeps all of its newsgroup messages in separate files. But email is kept in a single file. To be picky, Thunderbird keeps each e-mail folder in a pair of files. the $mailboxname.sdb file is a container for the messages, and the .msf file contains info about those messages. So, if you have a folder in the inbox per sender, then there is a file pair per sender. Newsgroups are similar, but there is also an extra file per server, telling TB which groups are on that server. Thanks, interesting. So it _still_ isn't keeping _individual emails_ (or news posts) in individual files, so several (possibly many) can be lost if a single file is corrupted. (Not that, AFAIK, _any_ email/news client does. Unless maybe a DOS or possibly a Linux/Unix one.) See above... |
#64
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Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS
In message , Mortimer
writes: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message ... Actually, is there _any_ email software (XP, 7, or even '9x) that stores each email as a separate real file? (In real folders/directories?) Microsoft's Windows Mail (Vista) and Windows Live Mail (Win 7) store each email message as a separate .eml file and each newsgroup message as a separate .nws file, within filesystem folder/directory structures that match the structure in the email program, apart from slight truncation of email folder names when generating the corresponding filesystem folder name. It's very useful to be able to edit or annotate .eml files (using a text editor) - the only proviso is that you must not be looking at the message in WM or WLM at the time (and it may be safer to close WM/WLM altogether). Thanks for the info.! I _am_ surprised. (I'd not looked closely at the "Live" offerings, as I felt they assumed an always-on connection and smelt rather of the cloud [the name does, for a start], but maybe I should.) The advantage of one-file-per-email is that you can edit messages and that file corruption affects only one message. The advantage of Outlook That is certainly my view - especially the corruption side. Express's (and Outlook's) approach is that it is quicker to search one .dbx file per email folder or one .pst file for all emails than it is to open and search many .eml files. I guess that's why (especially in the days of slower processors and, especially, discs) things evolved to be mostly that way. [] Now howabout a news client that keeps separate files (-:? -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Veni, Vidi, Video (I came, I saw, I'll watch it again later) - Mik from S+AS Limited ), 1998 |
#65
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Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
... [] Now howabout a news client that keeps separate files (-:? Windows Mail and Windows Live Mail use separate .nws files for each newsgroup message. |
#66
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Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS
Hi, John.
Actually, is there _any_ email software (XP, 7, or even '9x) that stores each email as a separate real file? (In real folders/directories?) Yes! As pointed out by Mortimer a few posts down... Windows Mail, OE's successor that was integrated into Windows Vista over 5 years ago, discarded OE's All-In-One humongous DBX file approach and introduced a new scheme. Other more-techie users can describe the details better than I can, but in WM, each email message is saved in a separate .eml file, and each newsgroup post in its own .nws file. Windows Live Mail continues this new scheme. A DBX file was very efficient use of storage: 1,000 messages of 1 K bytes (including overhead) each would use only 1,000 KB on the disk. But, as you noted, one bad bit in the 1 MB file could lose all 1,000 messages. In the WM/WLM scheme, each of the 1,000 small files would take its own 4 KB cluster, for a total of 4 MB, but one bad file would leave the other 999 messages unscathed. And, each message can be individually accessed and edited by programs other than WM/WLM. As I'm sure you know, OE was an integral part of WinXP/9x; WM was an integral part of Vista; but Win7 contains NO mail or news app at all. WLM was never an integral part of any Windows OS, but can be downloaded and installed into WinXP/Vista/Win7 - and I'm now using it in the Win8 Release Preview. (WinXP can run 2009 and prior versions of WLM, but not 2011. Some users have installed WM into Win7, but that is not supported by Microsoft.) RC -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010) Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win8 (Release Preview) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message ... In message , Yousuf Khan writes: On 03/06/2012 2:28 AM, DK wrote: In , wrote: On 6/2/2012 8:54 PM PT, Ant typed: Nah, we haven't touched QEMM, Extended vs. Expanded RAM ;-) No no! XMS, EMS, conventional memory (EVIL!!), config.sys, autoexec.bat, etc. Oh remember, DoubleSpace, Stacker, etc.? I do. Stacker was absolutely great! But DoubleSpace was horrible. I lost a lot of data due to that one. Yousuf Khan Basically, it put all your files into one file, didn't it? So you could lose it/them all at once if that file got corrupted. And yet, people continue to use email (and possibly news) software that does that (for emails), ... Actually, is there _any_ email software (XP, 7, or even '9x) that stores each email as a separate real file? (In real folders/directories?) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Won't you come into the garden? I would like my roses to see you. -Richard |
#67
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Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS
"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom... As I'm sure you know, OE was an integral part of WinXP/9x; WM was an integral part of Vista; but Win7 contains NO mail or news app at all. WLM was never an integral part of any Windows OS, but can be downloaded and installed into WinXP/Vista/Win7 - and I'm now using it in the Win8 Release Preview. (WinXP can run 2009 and prior versions of WLM, but not 2011. Some users have installed WM into Win7, but that is not supported by Microsoft.) Every Windows 7 PC that I've seen has had Windows Live Mail already installed. It may be that a lot of PC vendors who supply their PCs pre-installed with Win 7 add it to the customised builds of Win 7 that they install (along with manufacturer-specific bloatware that they "helpfully" supply). I'm not sure about an installation from Microsoft's Win 7 CD. Does anyone have any instructions which actually work for installing WM on Win 7? I've seen instructions on various web sites but they assume that you have the same "bitness" of Vista and Win 7, whereas most people have 32-bit Vista and 64-bit Win 7. I still have a (32-bit) Vista PC that I could copy the c:\program files folder from. I even found a site which claimed to have instructions for running 32-bit WM on 64-bit Win 7, but they didn't work: despite following the instructions to the letter, the exe file crashed (I forget the precise details - it was a while ago). The UI of WLM, especially the 2011 rather than 2009 version, with its ribbon interface, is a real backward step and I wish I could go back to the UI of WM. |
#69
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Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS
On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:10:06 -0500, "R. C. White"
wrote: The transition to Win8 is going to be interesting! Win8 includes its own Mail app, but it is much different from Windows Live Mail. Even here in Win8 RP, I'm using WLM, not Win8's Mail. It's not clear yet whether that will still be possible in the final version of Win8. RC, how did you get the s in your reply? Did you add them manually? |
#70
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Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS
Hi, Ken.
Yes, I had to add the ""'s manually. For a single line, it's easy. For a multi-line quote, I have to remove the internal line breaks, then add just a single "" in front of the first line. When WLM reformats the paragraph, it adds "" to the beginning of each reformatted line. RC -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010) Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win8 (Release Preview) "Ken Blake" wrote in message ... On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:10:06 -0500, "R. C. White" wrote: The transition to Win8 is going to be interesting! Win8 includes its own Mail app, but it is much different from Windows Live Mail. Even here in Win8 RP, I'm using WLM, not Win8's Mail. It's not clear yet whether that will still be possible in the final version of Win8. RC, how did you get the s in your reply? Did you add them manually? |
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