Verify Problems with kHyperion Drive

I am fixing up an old computer for a friend.

He purchased a kHyperion CD writer, model KHCRW482448, from OfficeMax (free
after rebate) to replace the dinosaur that was in the computer.
Installation was straightforward with no problems noted.

I installed Exact Audio Copy version 0.9 ?4 and Click'N Burn Pro version 2.0
so that he can write audio CDs and backups. I did need to download an
upgrade to CNB so that it would recognize this new CD drive. Both utilities
appeared to work correctly. I have written a couple of backup CD-RW data
discs with no problems.

As a final test, I attempted to copy two audio CDs.
EAC extracted the contents of both CDs to the hard drive with no errors and
track quality numbers from 99.8% to 100%.

I then used CNB to write one of the CDs, using "Record and Verify" as I
always do and the speed set to Min. I used a Verbatim DataLifePlus
80-minute blank CD-R. The record phase went smoothly but the verify stage
terminated with an error about 5 minutes in. I tried the verify again
("Verify Only" mode) and again it terminated with an error, but at around 7
minutes in (not the same location).

Thinking that maybe I got a bad blank disc, I tried to record the second CD
source with everything the same except I used a Fuji (T-Y) blank CD-R. I
got the same results: no problems during writing, but verify terminated
with an error.

I then used the CD writer to write the two WAV files to a CD-RW as data
files. No problems, and the verify phase had no errors. I copied the two
WAV files onto my computer (which has EAC and CNB that I use regularly). I
did a CNB "Verify Only" on both discs and in both cases the verify completed
with no errors.

Since the discs verified correctly on my computer, I assume that they were
written correctly.

I even exchanged the kHyperion drive for another of the same model, tried
the verifies again, and again got errors.

So, what can I conclude? That the kHyperion drives can't read the discs
they writes, even quality blanks such as Fuji and Verbatim? Or did we just
get what we paid for?

The computer specs a

Pionex computer, AMD-K6-2 300 MHz CPU, 160 MB RAM
kHyperion drive as secondary master with no secondary slave (jumper is
correctly set to master)
Hard drives: 4 GB as primary master (about 1.2 MB used), 800 MB as primary
slave
Windows 98
Exact Audio Copy version 0.9 ?4
Click'N Burn Pro version 2.0 (with upgrade to allow drive to be recognized)

Thanks for any suggestions that may be provided.

I don't know exactly what the "verify" in Click 'n Burn does, but the
concept of doing a verify on an audio CD is somewhat dodgy, considering the
difficulty of doing an exact read of audio with the exact same offset, etc.
If a verify succeeds on a data CD, I'd say there's likely not a problem.

Also, burning the discs with the speed set to "min" (whatever speed that
picks, exactly) is likely not a great idea, as the writing quality on most
newer drives and discs is worse at the lowest speeds.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/


"Brian O" wrote in message
news:3f47c5db_1@newsfeed...
I am fixing up an old computer for a friend.

He purchased a kHyperion CD writer, model KHCRW482448, from OfficeMax
(free
after rebate) to replace the dinosaur that was in the computer.
Installation was straightforward with no problems noted.

I installed Exact Audio Copy version 0.9 ?4 and Click'N Burn Pro version
2.0
so that he can write audio CDs and backups. I did need to download an
upgrade to CNB so that it would recognize this new CD drive. Both
utilities
appeared to work correctly. I have written a couple of backup CD-RW data
discs with no problems.

As a final test, I attempted to copy two audio CDs.
EAC extracted the contents of both CDs to the hard drive with no errors
and
track quality numbers from 99.8% to 100%.

I then used CNB to write one of the CDs, using "Record and Verify" as I
always do and the speed set to Min. I used a Verbatim DataLifePlus
80-minute blank CD-R. The record phase went smoothly but the verify stage
terminated with an error about 5 minutes in. I tried the verify again
("Verify Only" mode) and again it terminated with an error, but at around
7
minutes in (not the same location).

Thinking that maybe I got a bad blank disc, I tried to record the second
CD
source with everything the same except I used a Fuji (T-Y) blank CD-R. I
got the same results: no problems during writing, but verify terminated
with an error.

I then used the CD writer to write the two WAV files to a CD-RW as data
files. No problems, and the verify phase had no errors. I copied the two
WAV files onto my computer (which has EAC and CNB that I use regularly).
I
did a CNB "Verify Only" on both discs and in both cases the verify
completed
with no errors.

Since the discs verified correctly on my computer, I assume that they were
written correctly.

I even exchanged the kHyperion drive for another of the same model, tried
the verifies again, and again got errors.

So, what can I conclude? That the kHyperion drives can't read the discs
they writes, even quality blanks such as Fuji and Verbatim? Or did we
just
get what we paid for?

The computer specs a

Pionex computer, AMD-K6-2 300 MHz CPU, 160 MB RAM
kHyperion drive as secondary master with no secondary slave (jumper is
correctly set to master)
Hard drives: 4 GB as primary master (about 1.2 MB used), 800 MB as
primary
slave
Windows 98
Exact Audio Copy version 0.9 ?4
Click'N Burn Pro version 2.0 (with upgrade to allow drive to be
recognized)

Thanks for any suggestions that may be provided.

Have you tried playing them in a CD payer? Do they work?
BN

I don't know exactly what the "verify" in Click 'n Burn does, but the
concept of doing a verify on an audio CD is somewhat dodgy, considering
the
difficulty of doing an exact read of audio with the exact same offset,
etc.
If a verify succeeds on a data CD, I'd say there's likely not a problem.

Also, burning the discs with the speed set to "min" (whatever speed that
picks, exactly) is likely not a great idea, as the writing quality on most
newer drives and discs is worse at the lowest speeds.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/


"Brian O" wrote in message
news:3f47c5db_1@newsfeed...
I am fixing up an old computer for a friend.

He purchased a kHyperion CD writer, model KHCRW482448, from OfficeMax
(free
after rebate) to replace the dinosaur that was in the computer.
Installation was straightforward with no problems noted.

I installed Exact Audio Copy version 0.9 ?4 and Click'N Burn Pro version
2.0
so that he can write audio CDs and backups. I did need to download an
upgrade to CNB so that it would recognize this new CD drive. Both
utilities
appeared to work correctly. I have written a couple of backup CD-RW
data
discs with no problems.

As a final test, I attempted to copy two audio CDs.
EAC extracted the contents of both CDs to the hard drive with no errors
and
track quality numbers from 99.8% to 100%.

I then used CNB to write one of the CDs, using "Record and Verify" as I
always do and the speed set to Min. I used a Verbatim DataLifePlus
80-minute blank CD-R. The record phase went smoothly but the verify
stage
terminated with an error about 5 minutes in. I tried the verify again
("Verify Only" mode) and again it terminated with an error, but at
around
7
minutes in (not the same location).

Thinking that maybe I got a bad blank disc, I tried to record the second
CD
source with everything the same except I used a Fuji (T-Y) blank CD-R.
I
got the same results: no problems during writing, but verify terminated
with an error.

I then used the CD writer to write the two WAV files to a CD-RW as data
files. No problems, and the verify phase had no errors. I copied the
two
WAV files onto my computer (which has EAC and CNB that I use regularly).
I
did a CNB "Verify Only" on both discs and in both cases the verify
completed
with no errors.

Since the discs verified correctly on my computer, I assume that they
were
written correctly.

I even exchanged the kHyperion drive for another of the same model,
tried
the verifies again, and again got errors.

So, what can I conclude? That the kHyperion drives can't read the discs
they writes, even quality blanks such as Fuji and Verbatim? Or did we
just
get what we paid for?

The computer specs a

Pionex computer, AMD-K6-2 300 MHz CPU, 160 MB RAM
kHyperion drive as secondary master with no secondary slave (jumper is
correctly set to master)
Hard drives: 4 GB as primary master (about 1.2 MB used), 800 MB as
primary
slave
Windows 98
Exact Audio Copy version 0.9 ?4
Click'N Burn Pro version 2.0 (with upgrade to allow drive to be
recognized)

Thanks for any suggestions that may be provided.


Thanks for your reply, Robert.

I have always used "Record and Verify" with CNB with both data and audio
discs. I think the only time I had a verify fail (for data or audio) before
this was when I could see a physical flaw on the disc. I believe the choice
of Min/Med/Max is determined by the drive's firmware. On my computer (with
my HP CD writer) my choices are nX numbers. The record and verify seemed to
go at about 8X when "Min" was selected. I'm not sure this old computer can
send the data to the writer at whatever speed "Max" is. It doesn't seem to
allow DMA to be selected.

The kHyperion drive does have buffer underrun protection (by whatever name
they use). Maybe that kicked in and those small gaps are what is causing
the verify to fail. I always reboot before recording an audio disc and
don't touch the computer while the record is going on. I'll try the same
job again with a CD-RW and see if there is any indication of buffer underrun
activity.

"Brian O" wrote in message news:3f49863c_2@newsfeed...
I don't know exactly what the "verify" in Click 'n Burn does, but the
concept of doing a verify on an audio CD is somewhat dodgy, considering
the
difficulty of doing an exact read of audio with the exact same offset,
etc.
If a verify succeeds on a data CD, I'd say there's likely not a problem.

Also, burning the discs with the speed set to "min" (whatever speed that
picks, exactly) is likely not a great idea, as the writing quality on most
newer drives and discs is worse at the lowest speeds.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/


"Brian O" wrote in message
news:3f47c5db_1@newsfeed...
I am fixing up an old computer for a friend.

He purchased a kHyperion CD writer, model KHCRW482448, from OfficeMax
(free
after rebate) to replace the dinosaur that was in the computer.
Installation was straightforward with no problems noted.

I installed Exact Audio Copy version 0.9 ?4 and Click'N Burn Pro version
2.0
so that he can write audio CDs and backups. I did need to download an
upgrade to CNB so that it would recognize this new CD drive. Both
utilities
appeared to work correctly. I have written a couple of backup CD-RW
data
discs with no problems.

As a final test, I attempted to copy two audio CDs.
EAC extracted the contents of both CDs to the hard drive with no errors
and
track quality numbers from 99.8% to 100%.

I then used CNB to write one of the CDs, using "Record and Verify" as I
always do and the speed set to Min. I used a Verbatim DataLifePlus
80-minute blank CD-R. The record phase went smoothly but the verify
stage
terminated with an error about 5 minutes in. I tried the verify again
("Verify Only" mode) and again it terminated with an error, but at
around
7
minutes in (not the same location).

Thinking that maybe I got a bad blank disc, I tried to record the second
CD
source with everything the same except I used a Fuji (T-Y) blank CD-R.
I
got the same results: no problems during writing, but verify terminated
with an error.

I then used the CD writer to write the two WAV files to a CD-RW as data
files. No problems, and the verify phase had no errors. I copied the
two
WAV files onto my computer (which has EAC and CNB that I use regularly).
I
did a CNB "Verify Only" on both discs and in both cases the verify
completed
with no errors.

Since the discs verified correctly on my computer, I assume that they
were
written correctly.

I even exchanged the kHyperion drive for another of the same model,
tried
the verifies again, and again got errors.

So, what can I conclude? That the kHyperion drives can't read the discs
they writes, even quality blanks such as Fuji and Verbatim? Or did we
just
get what we paid for?

The computer specs a

Pionex computer, AMD-K6-2 300 MHz CPU, 160 MB RAM
kHyperion drive as secondary master with no secondary slave (jumper is
correctly set to master)
Hard drives: 4 GB as primary master (about 1.2 MB used), 800 MB as
primary
slave
Windows 98
Exact Audio Copy version 0.9 ?4
Click'N Burn Pro version 2.0 (with upgrade to allow drive to be
recognized)

Thanks for any suggestions that may be provided.


Thanks for your reply, Robert.

I have always used "Record and Verify" with CNB with both data and audio
discs. I think the only time I had a verify fail (for data or audio) before
this was when I could see a physical flaw on the disc. I believe the choice
of Min/Med/Max is determined by the drive's firmware. On my computer (with
my HP CD writer) my choices are nX numbers. The record and verify seemed to
go at about 8X when "Min" was selected. I'm not sure this old computer can
send the data to the writer at whatever speed "Max" is. It doesn't seem to
allow DMA to be selected.

The kHyperion drive does have buffer underrun protection (by whatever name
they use). Maybe that kicked in and those small gaps are what is causing
the verify to fail. I always reboot before recording an audio disc and
don't touch the computer while the record is going on. I'll try the same
job again with a CD-RW and see if there is any indication of buffer underrun
activity.

If it's an audio cd why not just play the bloody thing.
Dave Cohen

On 26 Aug 2003 17:10:40 -0700, (David Cohen) wrote:

If it's an audio cd why not just play the bloody thing.
Dave Cohen

Because he's testing the reliability of the system he's trying to fix
and playback of the audio on a CD player will simply conceal any
errors on the disc?

He'd probably better test burning data instead of audio, however.

--
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