Sale Of Goods Act

I recently purchased a laser printer for my small business. After using it
for 10 days it stopped working and displayed an error message. I contacted
the supplier and was passed onto the printer manufacturer.

The manufacturer insisted that the printer needed to be registered (by fax)
before it could speak to me. This I duly did and the manufacturer then
diagnosed a fault which would require the printer to be returned for repair.
I explained that this would not be acceptable as my business needed the
printer and could not wait 7 to 10 days for a repair. Neither was I happy
with a printer that failed after 10 days.

So I wrote to the supplier, advised that I was rejecting the printer as
unfit for purpsoe and asked for a refund. This morning, 14 days later, the
supplier phoned to explain that I cannot have a refund because the
manufactuer will only allow refunds for printers returned within the first 7
days. My only option is to send the printer back to the manufacturer for
repair or try and sort the matter direct with the manufacturer.

I explained that my contract is with the supplier, not the manufacturer.
Also that the Sale Of Goods Act refers to faults within a reasonable period
and that 10 days cannot be a reasonable period of use for a printer which
should last for years. I requested that the supplier explain to me why the
Sale Of Goods Act does not apply; but it cannot!

The printer has been boxed-up and sits in my office. I have had to purchase
a replacement which works fine.

Is my understanding of the situation correct or does the Sale Of Goods Act
not apply to the IT industry? Should I go to the Small Claims Court of
challenge my credit card company?

Grateful for some advice.

Chris (Hampshire)

PS: You only find-out how good a company is when something goes wrong.

In article ,
"cbjroms" wrote:

Is my understanding of the situation correct or does the Sale Of Goods Act
not apply to the IT industry? Should I go to the Small Claims Court of
challenge my credit card company?


I think SOGA doesn't apply, to business purchases, regardless of the
purchase.

Either that or the terms are different - sorry I can't actually help but
I'd be interested to read the posts that I'm sure will follow.

cheers,
Paul
--
paul at spamcop dot net

cbjroms wrote:

Grateful for some advice.

Chris (Hampshire)

PS: You only find-out how good a company is when something goes wrong.



If it is for business, consumer protection legislation does not apply.


--
Remove stars for email
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"cbjroms" wrote in message
...
I recently purchased a laser printer for my small business. After using it
for 10 days it stopped working and displayed an error message. I contacted
the supplier and was passed onto the printer manufacturer.

The manufacturer insisted that the printer needed to be registered (by
fax)
before it could speak to me. This I duly did and the manufacturer then
diagnosed a fault which would require the printer to be returned for
repair.
I explained that this would not be acceptable as my business needed the
printer and could not wait 7 to 10 days for a repair. Neither was I happy
with a printer that failed after 10 days.

It's also best buying the support that suits your needs, i.e. next-day
swap-out!

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 18:29:39 GMT, "cbjroms"
wrote:

I recently purchased a laser printer for my small business. After using it
for 10 days it stopped working and displayed an error message. I contacted
the supplier and was passed onto the printer manufacturer.

[snipped]

Is my understanding of the situation correct or does the Sale Of Goods Act
not apply to the IT industry? Should I go to the Small Claims Court of
challenge my credit card company?

The IT industry believes, incorrectly, that SOGA does not apply to it.

The difference between business and consumer purchase is that some
rights *MAY* be excluded in contracts between businesses, so the T&C's
of the seller become more critical. Have a look he

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg...mId=1074405660

It would be worth posting in uk.legal.moderated to get more detailed
advice. What you have done and said so far is correct, it's the seller
that is wrong, subject to the T&C's.

I would get a recorded delivery off to the seller confirming your
position pretty quickly while you investigate further.

--
Jeff Gaines

Gary writes:

If it is for business, consumer protection legislation does not apply.

True, but does the SOGA not still apply to goods which are faulty even
for business purchases?

"Graham Murray" wrote in message
...
Gary writes:

If it is for business, consumer protection legislation does not apply.

True, but does the SOGA not still apply to goods which are faulty even
for business purchases?

No as its part of the consumers act. Business can set there own contracts
before purchase. But if you buy a printer from a retailer to use for your
business then your a consumer.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 18:29:39 GMT, "cbjroms"
wrote:

I explained that my contract is with the supplier, not the manufacturer.
Also that the Sale Of Goods Act refers to faults within a reasonable period
and that 10 days cannot be a reasonable period of use for a printer which
should last for years. I requested that the supplier explain to me why the
Sale Of Goods Act does not apply; but it cannot!

The SOGA does apply, but for business to business transactions is, in
most cases, over ridden by the suppliers terms and conditions so you
need to read those first if you have not already done so. The T&C's
may be challenged under unfair contracts legislation but this isn't
cheap (or easy).

Your right to rejection is linked to inspection - not longevity - so
once you have "accepted" the goods by taking them into use you lose
any right to reject the goods. Past court cases have determined that
the period in which you can reject the item is small. It isn't a
fixed period but 10 days is pushing things.

Basically after acceptance your right if a fault occurs is to
"compensation" which usually means a free repair. It might also
cover rental of a new machine but almost certainly the suppliers
T&C's will exclude consequential loss so you won't be able to claim
this. You can have the machine fixed and that's it.

Is my understanding of the situation correct

No.

or does the Sale Of Goods Act not apply to the IT industry?

Yes it does.

Should I go to the Small Claims Court

You can, but it is difficult to see how you could succeed.

or challenge my credit card company?

For what?



--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"cbjroms" wrote:

The manufacturer insisted that the printer needed to be registered (by fax)
before it could speak to me. This I duly did and the manufacturer then
diagnosed a fault which would require the printer to be returned for repair.
I explained that this would not be acceptable as my business needed the
printer and could not wait 7 to 10 days for a repair. Neither was I happy
with a printer that failed after 10 days.

Firstly, if the equipment is business critical even the best level of
protection afforded by the law and under most warranty terms will be
woefully inadequate.

If you depend on the printer you should consider taking out a
maintenance agreement with a service level appropriate to the risk and
business impact of failure or at least have a contingency plan to make
alternative arrangements (which you've effectively done by purchasing
another printer anyway) - all of which are *your* responsibility.
While the supplier may have certain obligations they're unlikely to be
liable for your business continuity.

I explained that my contract is with the supplier, not the manufacturer.
Also that the Sale Of Goods Act refers to faults within a reasonable period
and that 10 days cannot be a reasonable period of use for a printer which
should last for years. I requested that the supplier explain to me why the
Sale Of Goods Act does not apply; but it cannot!

You are absolutely correct that the contract is with the supplier and
the manufacturer has little or no liability.

However, while the supplier may not have sufficient grasp of SOGA to
explain why it does not apply (which may work in your favour),
nonetheless it probably does NOT. When purchasing as a consumer you
can reliably quote SOGA as a supplier cannot write anything into their
T&Cs which affect your statutory rights but when in B2B transactions
any contract formed between the two parties takes precedent. Thus the
suppliers T&Cs of sale will override SOGA and any protection afford to
you under SOGA will be limited to clauses specifically *not* covered
by the T&Cs, which may well mean you have absolutely NO remedy under
SOGA.

In any event, if the printer worked for 10 days this is likely to
exceed the "reasonable period" in which you had the right to reject
the goods for a full refund. While a printer might arguably be
expected to give service for some years, any remedy under SOGA is
limited to either a repair or replacement at the suppliers discretion.
Only after such a remedy has been offered and been unsuccessful are
you entitled to compensation, which will not necessarily be a full
refund.

Is my understanding of the situation correct or does the Sale Of Goods Act
not apply to the IT industry? Should I go to the Small Claims Court of
challenge my credit card company?

SOGA applies to the IT Industry as much as any other but is a Consumer
Protection instrument and rarely applies, in it's entirety at least,
to B2B transactions.


--
iv Paul iv

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:34:37 +0000, Paul Hopwood
wrote:

expected to give service for some years, any remedy under SOGA is
limited to either a repair or replacement at the suppliers discretion.
Only after such a remedy has been offered and been unsuccessful are
you entitled to compensation, which will not necessarily be a full
refund.

This is not strictly correct.

A Consumer has the right to ' alternatively request a repair or
replacement' but the basic right is damages for breach of contract,
i.e. refund of costs including carriage. It is the Consumer's choice
as to which route to go.

Since there is no equivalent right for somebody who is not purchasing
as a Consumer then the only remedy is damages. However, as has been
pointed out several times by you and others, this is not a Consumer
transaction so the T&C's are going to drive this.


--
Jeff Gaines