External USB harddisk problem is driving me crazy

Greetings!

I am trying to make an external harddrive work on a friends PC,
but I cannot get it to work. First some data:

* The PC
- Medion PC MT5 (MED MT 115) with MD3500 mainboard (2004)
- latest Award BIOS released by Medion for this system
- 4x onboard USB 1.1 (Intel ICH2 chipset)
- 4x USB 2.0 (PCI card with VIA 5 chipset)
- Windows XP Home SP3 fully patched

* The disk #1
- Toshiba 3.5" 1TB
- USB 2.0 (USB 1.1 backward compatible)

* The disk #2
- Medion 3.5" 500GB
- USB 2.0 (USB 1.1 backward compatible)

* The symptoms
- After plugging in a disk into any USB port, windows does not
assign a drive letter
- The windows event log records many entries with NTFS error 51
while a disk is connected
- When a disk is connected for the first time, windows says that
it sees a new disk but then does nothing
- When a disk is connected for the second time, widows says that
the device is malfunctioning and classifies the disk as an
unknown device; programs like Device Manager hang until the
disk is unplugged
- USB 2.0 memory sticks work just fine on both USB 1.1 and 2.0
ports
- Both harddisks work just fine on various other PCs

At first I thought some program was interfering, so I uninstalled
third party USB drivers, etc. No luck.

Then I tried installing a clean copy of Windows XP in a second
partion. Same symptoms. So I figured that Windows was not to blame,
directing my efforts towards hardware and BIOS.

The BIOS is up to date, so nothing here that I can do.

Last thing I tried was to clear the mainboard CMOS memory (remove
battery for a minute). No improvement.

So I am now completely lost and feeling clueless...

I am wondering what is causing this (BIOS bug causing hardware to
be initialized incorrectly?) and if there is anything that I can
do to fix this (other then recommend to buy a new PC).

Any pointers are greatly appreciated!

Regards,
-Roger

On Nov 9, 7:06*pm, Roger Hünen wrote:
Greetings!

I am trying to make an external harddrive work on a friends PC,
but I cannot get it to work. First some data:

* The PC
* *- Medion PC MT5 (MED MT 115) with MD3500 mainboard (2004)
* *- latest Award BIOS released by Medion for this system
* *- 4x onboard USB 1.1 (Intel ICH2 chipset)
* *- 4x USB 2.0 (PCI card with VIA 5 chipset)
* *- Windows XP Home SP3 fully patched

* The disk #1
* *- Toshiba 3.5" 1TB
* *- USB 2.0 (USB 1.1 backward compatible)

* The disk #2
* *- Medion 3.5" 500GB
* *- USB 2.0 (USB 1.1 backward compatible)

* The symptoms
* *- After plugging in a disk into any USB port, windows does not
* * *assign a drive letter
* *- The windows event log records many entries with NTFS error 51
* * *while a disk is connected
* *- When a disk is connected for the first time, windows says that
* * *it sees a new disk but then does nothing
* *- When a disk is connected for the second time, widows says that
* * *the device is malfunctioning and classifies the disk as an
* * *unknown device; programs like Device Manager hang until the
* * *disk is unplugged
* *- USB 2.0 memory sticks work just fine on both USB 1.1 and 2.0
* * *ports
* *- Both harddisks work just fine on various other PCs

At first I thought some program was interfering, so I uninstalled
third party USB drivers, etc. No luck.

Then I tried installing a clean copy of Windows XP in a second
partion. Same symptoms. So I figured that Windows was not to blame,
directing my efforts towards hardware and BIOS.

The BIOS is up to date, so nothing here that I can do.

Last thing I tried was to clear the mainboard CMOS memory (remove
battery for a minute). No improvement.

So I am now completely lost and feeling clueless...

I am wondering what is causing this (BIOS bug causing hardware to
be initialized incorrectly?) and if there is anything that I can
do to fix this (other then recommend to buy a new PC).

Any pointers are greatly appreciated!

Regards,
-Roger

Any mapped network drives. They can sometimes hide a physical drive.

Can you see the drive using Computer Management?

Michael
www.cnwrecovery.com

Roger Hünen wrote

I am trying to make an external harddrive work on a friends PC,
but I cannot get it to work. First some data:

* The PC
- Medion PC MT5 (MED MT 115) with MD3500 mainboard (2004)
- latest Award BIOS released by Medion for this system
- 4x onboard USB 1.1 (Intel ICH2 chipset)
- 4x USB 2.0 (PCI card with VIA 5 chipset)
- Windows XP Home SP3 fully patched

* The disk #1
- Toshiba 3.5" 1TB
- USB 2.0 (USB 1.1 backward compatible)

* The disk #2
- Medion 3.5" 500GB
- USB 2.0 (USB 1.1 backward compatible)

* The symptoms
- After plugging in a disk into any USB port, windows does not
assign a drive letter
- The windows event log records many entries with NTFS error 51
while a disk is connected

Can you post the exact error log entry for one of them ?

Nothing much shows up with google with how you describe it.

And what shows up in Disk Management drive wise ?

- When a disk is connected for the first time, windows says that
it sees a new disk but then does nothing
- When a disk is connected for the second time, widows says that
the device is malfunctioning and classifies the disk as an unknown device; programs like Device Manager hang until
the disk is unplugged

Thats a real worry if you get that effect with both drives and the clean XP install.

- USB 2.0 memory sticks work just fine on both USB 1.1 and 2.0 ports
- Both harddisks work just fine on various other PCs

Does any external USB hard drive ever work at all ?

At first I thought some program was interfering, so I uninstalled
third party USB drivers, etc. No luck.

Then I tried installing a clean copy of Windows XP in a second
partion. Same symptoms. So I figured that Windows was not to blame,
directing my efforts towards hardware and BIOS.

The BIOS is up to date, so nothing here that I can do.

Last thing I tried was to clear the mainboard CMOS memory (remove
battery for a minute). No improvement.

So I am now completely lost and feeling clueless...

I am wondering what is causing this (BIOS bug causing hardware to be initialized incorrectly?)

Never seen that.

What happens with a linux live CD, can you see the drive in that config ?

That would eliminate one obvious possibility that there is some
combination of chipset/external drive and XP thats the problem.

and if there is anything that I can do to fix this

I'd ask Medion about it.

(other then recommend to buy a new PC).

On 2011/11/10 00:28, wrote:
On Nov 9, 7:06 pm, Roger wrote:
I am trying to make an external harddrive work on a friends PC,
but I cannot get it to work. First some data:

* The PC
- Medion PC MT5 (MED MT 115) with MD3500 mainboard (2004)
- latest Award BIOS released by Medion for this system
- 4x onboard USB 1.1 (Intel ICH2 chipset)
- 4x USB 2.0 (PCI card with VIA 5 chipset)
- Windows XP Home SP3 fully patched

* The disk #1
- Toshiba 3.5" 1TB
- USB 2.0 (USB 1.1 backward compatible)

* The disk #2
- Medion 3.5" 500GB
- USB 2.0 (USB 1.1 backward compatible)

* The symptoms
- After plugging in a disk into any USB port, windows does not
assign a drive letter
- The windows event log records many entries with NTFS error 51
while a disk is connected
- When a disk is connected for the first time, windows says that
it sees a new disk but then does nothing
- When a disk is connected for the second time, widows says that
the device is malfunctioning and classifies the disk as an
unknown device; programs like Device Manager hang until the
disk is unplugged
- USB 2.0 memory sticks work just fine on both USB 1.1 and 2.0
ports
- Both harddisks work just fine on various other PCs

At first I thought some program was interfering, so I uninstalled
third party USB drivers, etc. No luck.

Then I tried installing a clean copy of Windows XP in a second
partion. Same symptoms. So I figured that Windows was not to blame,
directing my efforts towards hardware and BIOS.

The BIOS is up to date, so nothing here that I can do.

Last thing I tried was to clear the mainboard CMOS memory (remove
battery for a minute). No improvement.

So I am now completely lost and feeling clueless...

I am wondering what is causing this (BIOS bug causing hardware to
be initialized incorrectly?) and if there is anything that I can
do to fix this (other then recommend to buy a new PC).

Any pointers are greatly appreciated!

Any mapped network drives. They can sometimes hide a physical drive.

Not the problem here.

Can you see the drive using Computer Management?

No.

Regards,
-Roger

On 2011/11/10 03:48, Rod Speed wrote:
Roger Hünen wrote

[snip]

Can you post the exact error log entry for one of them ?

Event ID: 51
Event Type: Warning
Event Source: Disk
Description: An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\DR1
during a paging operation.

There is no pagefile on this drive, but I have seen this event type
before in similar cases when there are communiation issues with the
disk.

Nothing much shows up with google with how you describe it.

That is why I am asking here

And what shows up in Disk Management drive wise ?

The disk does not show up in Disk Management. It simply doesn't seem
to get this far.

- When a disk is connected for the first time, windows says that
it sees a new disk but then does nothing
- When a disk is connected for the second time, widows says that
the device is malfunctioning and classifies the disk as an unknown device; programs like Device Manager hang until
the disk is unplugged

Thats a real worry if you get that effect with both drives and the clean XP install.

Yup.

- USB 2.0 memory sticks work just fine on both USB 1.1 and 2.0 ports
- Both harddisks work just fine on various other PCs

Does any external USB hard drive ever work at all ?

I have tried with 2 different external harddisks. Unfortunately I don't
have another one at hand for testing.

At first I thought some program was interfering, so I uninstalled
third party USB drivers, etc. No luck.

Then I tried installing a clean copy of Windows XP in a second
partion. Same symptoms. So I figured that Windows was not to blame,
directing my efforts towards hardware and BIOS.

The BIOS is up to date, so nothing here that I can do.

Last thing I tried was to clear the mainboard CMOS memory (remove
battery for a minute). No improvement.

So I am now completely lost and feeling clueless...

I am wondering what is causing this (BIOS bug causing hardware to be initialized incorrectly?)

Never seen that.

Neither have I. This is totally weird.

What happens with a linux live CD, can you see the drive in that config ?

That would eliminate one obvious possibility that there is some
combination of chipset/external drive and XP thats the problem.

That is a very good suggestion. I will give it a try (takes a few days).

and if there is anything that I can do to fix this

I'd ask Medion about it.

I did. They don't support those old systems anymore and suggest to
reinstall from the recovery media. Which is of course not going to
work.

Regards,
-Roger

On 10/11/2011 06:32, Roger Hünen wrote:
On 2011/11/10 03:48, Rod Speed wrote:

What happens with a linux live CD, can you see the drive in that config ?


You didn't answer this one - but it is /definitely/ the next step to
try. Download and burn something like Knoppix or Linux Mint live CDs
(or System Rescue CD, if you are familiar with Linux). Alternatively,
you can get live CDs/DVDs with many Linux magazines.

Roger Hünen wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Roger Hünen wrote

Can you post the exact error log entry for one of them ?

Event ID: 51
Event Type: Warning
Event Source: Disk
Description: An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\DR1 during a paging operation.

Yeah,. assumed it was that one, just wanted to check.

Basically that provides no useful information, you can
get that with a USB DVD drive that is working fine.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/244780

There is no pagefile on this drive, but I have seen this event type before in similar cases when there are
communiation issues with the disk.

In this case it appears to be because they drive doesnt mount properly so it doesnt show up in Disk Management.

And what shows up in Disk Management drive wise ?

The disk does not show up in Disk Management. It simply doesn't seem to get this far.

Yeah, thats noit unexpected.

- When a disk is connected for the first time, windows says that
it sees a new disk but then does nothing
- When a disk is connected for the second time, widows says that
the device is malfunctioning and classifies the disk as an unknown device; programs like Device Manager hang
until the disk is unplugged

Thats a real worry if you get that effect with both drives and the clean XP install.

Yup.

Yeah, looking more and more like some quirk where XP doesnt like the
motherboard chipset and so doesnt mount any USB hard drive properly.

The obvious proof of that possibility is the linux live CD mentioned below.

- USB 2.0 memory sticks work just fine on both USB 1.1 and 2.0 ports - Both harddisks work just fine on various
other PCs

Does any external USB hard drive ever work at all ?

I have tried with 2 different external harddisks. Unfortunately I don't have another one at hand for testing.

Yeah, but pretty conclusive with two very different ones, both with the same result.

At first I thought some program was interfering, so I uninstalled third party USB drivers, etc. No luck.

Then I tried installing a clean copy of Windows XP in a second
partion. Same symptoms. So I figured that Windows was not to blame, directing my efforts towards hardware and BIOS.

The BIOS is up to date, so nothing here that I can do.

Last thing I tried was to clear the mainboard CMOS memory (remove battery for a minute). No improvement.

So I am now completely lost and feeling clueless...

I am wondering what is causing this (BIOS bug causing hardware to be initialized incorrectly?)

Never seen that.

Neither have I. This is totally weird.

Yeah, its either some problem that XP has with the USB chipset on
that motherboard, or its failed. Pity we dont know if it ever did work.

What happens with a linux live CD, can you see the drive in that config ?

That would eliminate one obvious possibility that there is some
combination of chipset/external drive and XP thats the problem.

That is a very good suggestion. I will give it a try (takes a few days).

Its the only really useful thing to try now.

and if there is anything that I can do to fix this

I'd ask Medion about it.

I did. They don't support those old systems anymore and suggest to
reinstall from the recovery media. Which is of course not going to work.

Not clear if they even bothered to check if its a known problem with that system.

Pity.

On 2011/11/10 09:14, David Brown wrote:
On 10/11/2011 06:32, Roger Hünen wrote:
On 2011/11/10 03:48, Rod Speed wrote:

What happens with a linux live CD, can you see the drive in that config ?


You didn't answer this one - but it is /definitely/ the next step to try.

I answered that I'd give it a try...

Download and burn something like Knoppix

Already done (Knoppix 6.7.1)

I have access to the PC again over the weekend. I will post the results.

Regards,
-Roger

On 10/11/2011 10:45, Roger Hünen wrote:
On 2011/11/10 09:14, David Brown wrote:
On 10/11/2011 06:32, Roger Hünen wrote:
On 2011/11/10 03:48, Rod Speed wrote:

What happens with a linux live CD, can you see the drive in that
config ?


You didn't answer this one - but it is /definitely/ the next step to try.

I answered that I'd give it a try...

Download and burn something like Knoppix

Already done (Knoppix 6.7.1)

I have access to the PC again over the weekend. I will post the results.


Another thing to try from the CD is memtest. Memory problems can
manifest themselves in all sorts of weird ways, so it is good to
eliminate them as a possible cause.

On 2011/11/10 12:44, David Brown wrote:
Another thing to try from the CD is memtest. Memory problems can manifest
themselves in all sorts of weird ways, so it is good to eliminate them as
a possible cause.

Good point. Will test this too!

Regards,
-Roger