Filesystem for a Time Capsule

On Jul 15, 7:46*pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
Justin wrote:
No, not Apple Time Machine, but an actual time capsule.
I have been asked to put together an external USB hard drive; format
it and put a bunch of pictures, videos - you name it on there.
It, along with other trinkets will be sealed in a container and buried.

I'd go FAT32 as long as the videos arent too big to fit on that.

Even if they are, I'd split those that are.

At first I was thinking ext4 since it is non proprietary. *Or
ext2 for the same reason and the fact it is non-journaling.

Too likely that they will be long gone by the time someone wasnt to read the stick.

NTFS? *Maybe but I don't know what form M$ will be in circa 2110.
Fat16/32 - out of the question since some files will be bigger than 4GB..

Just split the ones that are too big. It will be obvious that
you have done that if the file names are chosen properly.

What about fat64/exFAT?

No guarantee that it will survive for as long as you need.



Is there a utility to format a *hard drive* to fat64?
I'm not even considering Apple's HFS+.
Since most of us (myself included) won't be around when this thing
is opened this is more of a thought exercise than actual task.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not worry to much about file system as long as the files are
sequential, and not compressed.

I would also possible make sure that file structure was RAW., JPEG
will be about for a long time, but maybe not more than 50 years.

I would worry more about being able to read USB-2 in 100 years times.
It is currently difficult to find hardware to interface to 20 year old
hard drives. USB wil be fine for the next 20-30 years, but I am not
sure how much longer.

Michael
www.cnwrecovery.com

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Justin wrote

No, not Apple Time Machine, but an actual time capsule.

I have been asked to put together an external USB hard drive;
format it and put a bunch of pictures, videos - you name it on there.
It, along with other trinkets will be sealed in a container and buried.

I'd go FAT32 as long as the videos arent too big to fit on that.

Even if they are, I'd split those that are.

At first I was thinking ext4 since it is non proprietary. Or
ext2 for the same reason and the fact it is non-journaling.

Too likely that they will be long gone by the time someone wasnt to read the stick.

NTFS? Maybe but I don't know what form M$ will be in circa 2110.
Fat16/32 - out of the question since some files will be bigger than 4GB.

Just split the ones that are too big. It will be obvious that
you have done that if the file names are chosen properly.

What about fat64/exFAT?

No guarantee that it will survive for as long as you need.

Is there a utility to format a *hard drive* to fat64?
I'm not even considering Apple's HFS+.
Since most of us (myself included) won't be around when this thing
is opened this is more of a thought exercise than actual task.-

I would not worry to much about file system as long
as the files are sequential, and not compressed.

Makes more sense to use FAT32 and ensure the files are sequential.

That way if FAT32 is still around, and it should be, it can be used and the
stick accessed independantly of the file system if it is no longer used much.

I would also possible make sure that file structure was RAW., JPEG
will be about for a long time, but maybe not more than 50 years.

I'd include the specs for JPEG in a simple text file.
Mainly because the file sizes are so much better.

I would worry more about being able to read USB-2 in 100 years times.
It is currently difficult to find hardware to interface to 20 year old hard drives.

But easy enough with LP records and what was used before that.

USB wil be fine for the next 20-30 years, but I am not sure how much longer.

That's true of any electronic format.

The only real alternative is a non electronic format and has
some real downsides of its own with videos and audio files.

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 04:27:59 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

wrote
That's true of any electronic format.

The only real alternative is a non electronic format and has some real
downsides of its own with videos and audio files.

I have done some research and discussed this issue with my old boss from
college.
Back in 2005, we came across some old, old IBM PC Jrs with 5 or so MB
hard drives. We were able to read the data off them with no problems.
The drives were dates 1981 to 1983.
Right now I'm thinking ext2 - the drive will be labeled on the outside
with the type of filesystem.
If anything it should give computer science students in 100 years a good
exercise in data recovery.

On 7/17/2010 1:32 PM, Justin wrote:

Right now I'm thinking ext2 - the drive will be labeled on the outside
with the type of filesystem.
If anything it should give computer science students in 100 years a good
exercise in data recovery.

Might as well do a partition each of common file systems. Set one as the
active one.

Maybe include a laptop to use to read it. Maybe they will still have the
same line current.
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Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.

Justin wrote:
Rod Speed wrote

That's true of any electronic format.

The only real alternative is a non electronic format and has
some real downsides of its own with videos and audio files.

I have done some research and discussed this issue with my old boss from college.

Back in 2005, we came across some old, old IBM PC Jrs with 5 or so MB
hard drives. We were able to read the data off them with no problems.
The drives were dates 1981 to 1983.

It wouldnt have been that easy with some older drives.

Right now I'm thinking ext2

Makes more sense to have more than one, say FAT32 and ext2.

- the drive will be labeled on the outside with the type of filesystem.

If anything it should give computer science students in 100 years a good exercise in data recovery.

There should still be the equivalent of wikipedia etc around.

On Jul 18, 4:02*am, "Rod Speed" wrote:
Justin wrote:
I have done some research and discussed this issue with my old boss from college.
Back in 2005, we came across some old, old IBM PC Jrs with 5 or so MB
hard drives. *We were able to read the data off them with no problems..
The drives were dates 1981 to 1983.

Did you read these drives in the IBM PC, or did you find an interface
to read them on a current PC?

One solution may be to put a complete memory and reader in your time
capsule. All you will need then is a clear indicator of what voltage
should be applied where. I will personally you drink if if 5V, or 9
volts can not be found somewhere, this is asssuming my credit card
still works.

Michael

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 04:22:21 -0700, wrote:

On Jul 18, 4:02Â*am, "Rod Speed" wrote:
Justin wrote:
I have done some research and discussed this issue with my old boss
from college. Back in 2005, we came across some old, old IBM PC Jrs
with 5 or so MB hard drives. Â*We were able to read the data off them
with no problems. The drives were dates 1981 to 1983.

Did you read these drives in the IBM PC, or did you find an interface to
read them on a current PC?

One solution may be to put a complete memory and reader in your time
capsule. All you will need then is a clear indicator of what voltage
should be applied where. I will personally you drink if if 5V, or 9
volts can not be found somewhere, this is asssuming my credit card still
works.

Michael

I'm not sure how he did it. When I was there he booted the PCs and used
a serial connection to transfer the files off. Apparently students back
in the early 1980's saved their work on the hard drives of those PCs even
though they weren't supposed to. It was interesting reading papers dates
1983.
I know they contacted a few of the writers via the alumni association and
printed an article in the college newspaper about it.

On Jul 18, 9:39*pm, Justin wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 04:22:21 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 18, 4:02*am, "Rod Speed" wrote:
Justin wrote:
I have done some research and discussed this issue with my old boss
from college. Back in 2005, we came across some old, old IBM PC Jrs
with 5 or so MB hard drives. *We were able to read the data off them
with no problems. The drives were dates 1981 to 1983.

Did you read these drives in the IBM PC, or did you find an interface to
read them on a current PC?

One solution may be to put a complete memory and reader in your time
capsule. *All you will need then is a clear indicator of what voltage
should be applied where. *I will personally you drink if if 5V, or *9
volts can not be found somewhere, this is asssuming my credit card still
works.

Michael

I'm not sure how he did it. *When I was there he booted the PCs and used
a serial connection to transfer the files off. *Apparently students back
in the early 1980's saved their work on the hard drives of those PCs even
though they weren't supposed to. *It was interesting reading papers dates
1983.
I know they contacted a few of the writers via the alumni association and
printed an article in the college newspaper about it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So you used the original hardware, and not just the hard drive as an
external device.

Michael
www.cnwrecovery.com

John Turco wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Justin wrote

No, not Apple Time Machine, but an actual time capsule.

I have been asked to put together an external USB hard drive;
format it and put a bunch of pictures, videos - you name it on
there. It, along with other trinkets will be sealed in a
container and buried.

I'd go FAT32 as long as the videos arent too big to fit on that.

Even if they are, I'd split those that are.

At first I was thinking ext4 since it is non proprietary. Or
ext2 for the same reason and the fact it is non-journaling.

Too likely that they will be long gone by the time someone wasnt to read the stick.

NTFS? Maybe but I don't know what form M$ will be in circa 2110.
Fat16/32 - out of the question since some files will be bigger than 4GB.

Just split the ones that are too big. It will be obvious that
you have done that if the file names are chosen properly.

What about fat64/exFAT?

No guarantee that it will survive for as long as you need.

Is there a utility to format a *hard drive* to fat64?
I'm not even considering Apple's HFS+.
Since most of us (myself included) won't be around when this thing
is opened this is more of a thought exercise than actual task.-

I would not worry to much about file system as long
as the files are sequential, and not compressed.

Makes more sense to use FAT32 and ensure the files are sequential.

Why not simply place a netbook, in the capsule?

I doubt they would be able to work out how to use it 100 years from now.

Bet you wouldnt be able to work out how to use a boot rom PDP11 if
I had included one of those in a time capsule, even only 20 years later.

That way if FAT32 is still around, and it should be, it can be used
and the stick accessed independantly of the file system if it is no
longer used much.

I would also possible make sure that file structure was RAW., JPEG
will be about for a long time, but maybe not more than 50 years.

I'd include the specs for JPEG in a simple text file.
Mainly because the file sizes are so much better.

Furthermore, each digital camera manufacturer has its own proprietary RAW format.

Indeed.

I would worry more about being able to read USB-2 in 100 years
times. It is currently difficult to find hardware to interface to
20 year old hard drives.

But easy enough with LP records and what was used before that.

USB wil be fine for the next 20-30 years, but I am not sure how much longer.

That's true of any electronic format.

The only real alternative is a non electronic format and has
some real downsides of its own with videos and audio files.

Such long-term archival storage issues are always fraught with peril, alas.

Yeah, even chiselled stone and clay tablets turned out to have real problems.

On Jul 22, 8:19*am, "Rod Speed" wrote:
John Turco wrote





Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Justin wrote
No, not Apple Time Machine, but an actual time capsule.
I have been asked to put together an external USB hard drive;
format it and put a bunch of pictures, videos - you name it on
there. It, along with other trinkets will be sealed in a
container and buried.
I'd go FAT32 as long as the videos arent too big to fit on that.
Even if they are, I'd split those that are.
At first I was thinking ext4 since it is non proprietary. Or
ext2 for the same reason and the fact it is non-journaling.
Too likely that they will be long gone by the time someone wasnt to read the stick.
NTFS? Maybe but I don't know what form M$ will be in circa 2110.
Fat16/32 - out of the question since some files will be bigger than 4GB.
Just split the ones that are too big. It will be obvious that
you have done that if the file names are chosen properly.
What about fat64/exFAT?
No guarantee that it will survive for as long as you need.
Is there a utility to format a *hard drive* to fat64?
I'm not even considering Apple's HFS+.
Since most of us (myself included) won't be around when this thing
is opened this is more of a thought exercise than actual task.-
I would not worry to much about file system as long
as the files are sequential, and not compressed.
Makes more sense to use FAT32 and ensure the files are sequential.
Why not simply place a netbook, in the capsule?

I doubt they would be able to work out how to use it 100 years from now.

Bet you wouldnt be able to work out how to use a boot rom PDP11 if
I had included one of those in a time capsule, even only 20 years later.

That way if FAT32 is still around, and it should be, it can be used
and the stick accessed independantly of the file system if it is no
longer used much.
I would also possible make sure that file structure was RAW., JPEG
will be about for a long time, but maybe not more than 50 years.
I'd include the specs for JPEG in a simple text file.
Mainly because the file sizes are so much better.
Furthermore, each digital camera manufacturer has its own proprietary RAW format.

Indeed.

I would worry more about being able to read USB-2 in 100 years
times. It is currently difficult to find hardware to interface to
20 year old hard drives.
But easy enough with LP records and what was used before that.
USB wil be fine for the next 20-30 years, but I am not sure how much longer.
That's true of any electronic format.
The only real alternative is a non electronic format and has
some real downsides of its own with videos and audio files.
Such long-term archival storage issues are always fraught with peril, alas.

Yeah, even chiselled stone and clay tablets turned out to have real problems.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

By RAW format I really meant just a bitmap, without compression. A
BMP only has a short header followed by normally 3 bytes per pixel.
No compression is important.

Agreed, camera 'RAW' covers an enourmous range of non standards.

Michael