Quiet mid-tower case supporting Corsair H105 cooler

I've notice some discounts in computer hardware recently,
and that has me searching for a "Quiet" mid-tower case which would
support the Corsair H105 CPU cooler (for an Intel i7-4790K CPU). As I
understand it, this 240mm cooler require 38mm+25mm(fan) = 63mm of
space. I am draw to this CPU fan because it has PWM, which means, I
think, that it will be very quiet when the system is not under load. I
am not a gamer, and rarely ever put my system under a heavy load for
more than a minute or so at a time (when I am using heavy-duty math
software).

I noticed that the Antec P100 may meet my requirements, but reviews
indicated it might be of lesser quality than I would choose, if I had a
choice. I thought I would see if you folks might have any case
suggestions. Thanks,

Bill

Bill wrote:
I've notice some discounts in computer hardware recently,
and that has me searching for a "Quiet" mid-tower case which would
support the Corsair H105 CPU cooler (for an Intel i7-4790K CPU). As I
understand it, this 240mm cooler require 38mm+25mm(fan) = 63mm of
space. I am draw to this CPU fan because it has PWM, which means, I
think, that it will be very quiet when the system is not under load. I
am not a gamer, and rarely ever put my system under a heavy load for
more than a minute or so at a time (when I am using heavy-duty math
software).

I noticed that the Antec P100 may meet my requirements, but reviews
indicated it might be of lesser quality than I would choose, if I had a
choice. I thought I would see if you folks might have any case
suggestions. Thanks,

Bill

Start with the Newegg page. Scroll down.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835181060

There are some Corsair-branded "compatible" computer cases shown.
Have a look at those, see how they intend the radiator to be
installed. Then take the dimensions of the case, and look for
cases that are as large as those.

You can also look in the customer comment section, for a
mention of what computer case the buyer has fitted the thing.

At any one time, there can be 1000+ models of computer cases
out there, and the search/examination time for those is
infinite. Only the person shopping, is going to be suited
to the task, because they must fit so many compromises
into the choice.

Paul

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:21:37 -0500, Bill
wrote:

I noticed that the Antec P100 may meet my requirements, but reviews
indicated it might be of lesser quality than I would choose, if I had a
choice.

More likely the reviewers have their own considerations that needn't
be taken as cheapening Antec products, not without a further
justification to hone what specifics are indicative of Antec has
fallen from the grade. Antec has done enough well in my book.
....Typing now from an Antec all-aluminum case that's as light as a
beer can, as a matter of fact, I've owned probably going on ten years.
Hate to admit it, but when I'm scanning through too many reviews, I've
a technique I use based on subjective and grammatical considerations;-
I'm, personally, certainly not an angel when it comes to sending out
public messages immaculately composed;- in fact, I never write reviews
to consider worth submitting into any formal medium, so composed to
receive them.

I can quickly note a level of complexity or stylistic intent in how a
person puts together their words. I combine that between a balance of
verbiage and actual content for spotting those whom better exhibit a
chance of delivering pertinence with efficacy.

Something of art, in my opinion, but given the major purveyors of
reviews may admit a page, at one time, of ten reviews, for my eyes
rapidly to scan through, subsequent, to identify vapid subjectivity --
references to one's wife, say, among trite or one-sentence
expositions, guised attempts of emulation -- in looking for certain
stylistic, grammatical "tells," which combine both pertinence with a
consideration for focus into a manner that convey information as a
mature sense of assurances, quite naturally, some do possess.

Another important facet to reviews, I find, is a helpful index of
reviewers within reviews, and those "grades" given, judged by
reviewers, to the greatest reviews considered, ceded among their
ranks, as most of all outstanding;- questions generated upon a review,
as well, may be pertinent and revealing and needn't necessarily be
ignored for byproducts of superfluous nor ancillary import.

-
'Please, do excuse me. I would have made this shorter but I haven't
the time.' -Blaise Pascal

Flasherly wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:21:37 -0500, Bill
wrote:

I noticed that the Antec P100 may meet my requirements, but reviews
indicated it might be of lesser quality than I would choose, if I had a
choice.
More likely the reviewers have their own considerations that needn't
be taken as cheapening Antec products, not without a further
justification to hone what specifics are indicative of Antec has
fallen from the grade. Antec has done enough well in my book.
...Typing now from an Antec all-aluminum case that's as light as a
beer can, as a matter of fact, I've owned probably going on ten years.

I've owed some Antec cases too, but that's exactly what a review
said--that the aluminum was so thin that it
barely blocked the noise of the drives inside. Same review said that
the buttons were cheap. Case was about $95
I think.

Bill


Hate to admit it, but when I'm scanning through too many reviews, I've
a technique I use based on subjective and grammatical considerations;-
I'm, personally, certainly not an angel when it comes to sending out
public messages immaculately composed;- in fact, I never write reviews
to consider worth submitting into any formal medium, so composed to
receive them.

I can quickly note a level of complexity or stylistic intent in how a
person puts together their words. I combine that between a balance of
verbiage and actual content for spotting those whom better exhibit a
chance of delivering pertinence with efficacy.

Something of art, in my opinion, but given the major purveyors of
reviews may admit a page, at one time, of ten reviews, for my eyes
rapidly to scan through, subsequent, to identify vapid subjectivity --
references to one's wife, say, among trite or one-sentence
expositions, guised attempts of emulation -- in looking for certain
stylistic, grammatical "tells," which combine both pertinence with a
consideration for focus into a manner that convey information as a
mature sense of assurances, quite naturally, some do possess.

Another important facet to reviews, I find, is a helpful index of
reviewers within reviews, and those "grades" given, judged by
reviewers, to the greatest reviews considered, ceded among their
ranks, as most of all outstanding;- questions generated upon a review,
as well, may be pertinent and revealing and needn't necessarily be
ignored for byproducts of superfluous nor ancillary import.

-
'Please, do excuse me. I would have made this shorter but I haven't
the time.' -Blaise Pascal

Paul wrote:
Bill wrote:
I've notice some discounts in computer hardware recently,
and that has me searching for a "Quiet" mid-tower case which would
support the Corsair H105 CPU cooler (for an Intel i7-4790K CPU). As I
understand it, this 240mm cooler require 38mm+25mm(fan) = 63mm of
space. I am draw to this CPU fan because it has PWM, which means, I
think, that it will be very quiet when the system is not under load.
I am not a gamer, and rarely ever put my system under a heavy load
for more than a minute or so at a time (when I am using heavy-duty
math software).

I noticed that the Antec P100 may meet my requirements, but reviews
indicated it might be of lesser quality than I would choose, if I had
a choice. I thought I would see if you folks might have any case
suggestions. Thanks,

Bill

Start with the Newegg page. Scroll down.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835181060

There are some Corsair-branded "compatible" computer cases shown.
Have a look at those, see how they intend the radiator to be
installed. Then take the dimensions of the case, and look for
cases that are as large as those.

You can also look in the customer comment section, for a
mention of what computer case the buyer has fitted the thing.

At any one time, there can be 1000+ models of computer cases
out there, and the search/examination time for those is
infinite. Only the person shopping, is going to be suited
to the task, because they must fit so many compromises
into the choice.

Paul

This 63mm thing is such a strange size that there don't appear to be
many. Especially, not
many that are designed as quiet cases--I generally try to choose all
quiet components..I hope
this H105 CPU cooler doesn't disappoint in that regard. I thought
someone might be able to
enlighten me. Looking at ASUS Z-97-Pro board, so PWM should help...

Bill

On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:46:08 -0500, Bill
wrote:

I've owed some Antec cases too, but that's exactly what a review
said--that the aluminum was so thin that it
barely blocked the noise of the drives inside. Same review said that
the buttons were cheap. Case was about $95
I think.

Bill

Of course. Nothing quiet about this case (LanBoy). I've even pulled
one of the sides (opposite the MB standoffs). It's not meant to be
anything but beer-can light, at least for me. Nor quiet, especially,
nor outrageously noisy. There's a large front-case fan over the
oddball Antec drive-case rack, and another suitably mated CPU fan for
a grapefruit monster heatsink/pipewick sitting ontop a dualcore
Conroe/Intel setup.

Nothing at all like the regard I initially gave it upon purchase. Now
it's something that grown on me, over ten years, that I flip summarily
on its side to reach inside its guts and do most anything I want.
Pronto Tonto.

Be sorely missed, though, if I didn't have it. In any subjective
sense. Nor, of course, are all models of Antec the same...sold a real
beasty of an all-steel Antec, unless it's in the next room, where I
keep a wall of spare if not old, sometimes useless computer parts.

Bill wrote:
Paul wrote:
Bill wrote:
I've notice some discounts in computer hardware recently,
and that has me searching for a "Quiet" mid-tower case which would
support the Corsair H105 CPU cooler (for an Intel i7-4790K CPU). As I
understand it, this 240mm cooler require 38mm+25mm(fan) = 63mm of
space. I am draw to this CPU fan because it has PWM, which means, I
think, that it will be very quiet when the system is not under load.
I am not a gamer, and rarely ever put my system under a heavy load
for more than a minute or so at a time (when I am using heavy-duty
math software).

I noticed that the Antec P100 may meet my requirements, but reviews
indicated it might be of lesser quality than I would choose, if I had
a choice. I thought I would see if you folks might have any case
suggestions. Thanks,

Bill

Start with the Newegg page. Scroll down.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835181060

There are some Corsair-branded "compatible" computer cases shown.
Have a look at those, see how they intend the radiator to be
installed. Then take the dimensions of the case, and look for
cases that are as large as those.

You can also look in the customer comment section, for a
mention of what computer case the buyer has fitted the thing.

At any one time, there can be 1000+ models of computer cases
out there, and the search/examination time for those is
infinite. Only the person shopping, is going to be suited
to the task, because they must fit so many compromises
into the choice.

Paul

This 63mm thing is such a strange size that there don't appear to be
many. Especially, not
many that are designed as quiet cases--I generally try to choose all
quiet components..I hope
this H105 CPU cooler doesn't disappoint in that regard. I thought
someone might be able to
enlighten me. Looking at ASUS Z-97-Pro board, so PWM should help...

Bill

My personal preference is for fixed fan speed, even if a little
noisy. I tend to forget about it after a while. When a fan
wanders around speed wise, it tends to attract unwanted
attention.

If the PWM signal is not connected to anything (it is left
floating), the fan would run at 100% speed. So if you were
to connect the four pin fan to a three pin header, the fourth
signal which is PWM, hangs in the air and is not connected. And
that's one way to get 100% fixed fan speed.

And with the usage of bog-standard square fans with
standard sized screw holes, you also have the option
of changing fans if you want. For example, the fan on my
Coolermaster CPU heatsink broke (while I was cleaning it),
and I replaced it with a Vantec Stealth. And since that's
a relatively quiet fan, that one could run at 100% no
problem. No need for speed control on that one at all.
Fans come in Low, Medium, High, Ultra, where Low and
Media tend to be 30dBa or lower. A High or an Ultra
is too loud for computer use. I have an Ultra that
I run at 7V, and that's still pretty loud. It was
an impulse buy - the fan is made from metal instead
of plastic, so I just had to buy it :-) But it sounds
like a vacuum cleaner if you run it with full 12V.

Paul

My personal preference is for fixed fan speed, even if a little
noisy. I tend to forget about it after a while. When a fan
wanders around speed wise, it tends to attract unwanted
attention.

If the PWM signal is not connected to anything (it is left
floating), the fan would run at 100% speed. So if you were
to connect the four pin fan to a three pin header, the fourth
signal which is PWM, hangs in the air and is not connected. And
that's one way to get 100% fixed fan speed.
On my current Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4P motherboard, I ended up
having to disable the "CPU Smart Fan Control", because otherwise the
audio was detecting my mouse movement and making very annoying noises
(sort of "following me around").
I assume that this feature is the same as PWM. If there is anyone here
who could
possibly explain that phenonema, I expect it is you or Flasherly! If it
happens again,
then PWM is just a waste of money... FWIW, I have a Logitech corded
mouse, but, IIRC, I tried another mouse too.

Bill




And with the usage of bog-standard square fans with
standard sized screw holes, you also have the option
of changing fans if you want. For example, the fan on my
Coolermaster CPU heatsink broke (while I was cleaning it),
and I replaced it with a Vantec Stealth. And since that's
a relatively quiet fan, that one could run at 100% no
problem. No need for speed control on that one at all.
Fans come in Low, Medium, High, Ultra, where Low and
Media tend to be 30dBa or lower. A High or an Ultra
is too loud for computer use. I have an Ultra that
I run at 7V, and that's still pretty loud. It was
an impulse buy - the fan is made from metal instead
of plastic, so I just had to buy it :-) But it sounds
like a vacuum cleaner if you run it with full 12V.

Paul

Bill wrote:

My personal preference is for fixed fan speed, even if a little
noisy. I tend to forget about it after a while. When a fan
wanders around speed wise, it tends to attract unwanted
attention.

If the PWM signal is not connected to anything (it is left
floating), the fan would run at 100% speed. So if you were
to connect the four pin fan to a three pin header, the fourth
signal which is PWM, hangs in the air and is not connected. And
that's one way to get 100% fixed fan speed.
On my current Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4P motherboard, I ended up
having to disable the "CPU Smart Fan Control", because otherwise the
audio was detecting my mouse movement and making very annoying noises
(sort of "following me around").
I assume that this feature is the same as PWM. If there is anyone here
who could
possibly explain that phenonema, I expect it is you or Flasherly! If it
happens again,
then PWM is just a waste of money... FWIW, I have a Logitech corded
mouse, but, IIRC, I tried another mouse too.

Bill


PWM (Intel style) operates at 25KHz. The pulse width of
the square wave signal varies, as an indicator of how fast
the fan is to go.

The 25KHz was selected specifically tn not be in the audio band.
While it is possible to alias an out of band signal down into
the audible range, you would need a suitable signal to do that.

Similarly, the CCFL tubes on your LCD monitor, run at 25KHz. And
that's another attempt to prevent things like coil noise from
an inverter, being heard by the user.

I've not read any posts, tracing noise to PWM. But of course
stranger things have happened.

*******

Motherboard audio doesn't have a particularly clean noise floor.
The quickest fix, is reach for a $10 PCI sound card and use that
in a PCI slot. Alternately, you can also get a USB dongle that
looks like a flash stick, with a couple 1/8" connectors on the
bottom, and the green connector on that is Line Out. That's another
way to potentially replace motherboard audio.

If the motherboard audio (HDAudio or AC'97) runs in parallel with
NIC drive wires (to the motherboard side of the Ethernet
isolation transformer0, the audio can pick that up. That gives
noises in response to packets on the NIC.

The motherboard audio must be powered with something. If it
were to run off +5VSB say, and the mouse runs off +5VSB, perhaps
the sound of the mouse leaks through that way. You may notice
a three terminal regulator on the motherboard, next to the
HDAudio chip, which is an attempt to provide "clean" unshared
power to the HDAudio chip. That might take +12V and make
+5V for the audio. No other circuit should use that power.

Some motherboards now, have decent audio performance. Older
motherboards, audio was an afterthought. It was the appearance
of RightMark, and audio testing, that perhaps alerted motherboard
makers to the need to clean up their act (bad PR). Now, you can find
pretty strange attempts at shielding. Some of which are mainly
for show (random strips of metal with branding printed on them).
Some of the effective solutions, are just layout changes in the
PCB, to route audio signals away from noise sources. But bulk
shielding has been known to buy 10dB in noise floor, so there
is some evidence that such helps. My current audio solution
(came with motherboard), is in a shielded box. Presumably so
it wouldn't look like an unshielded solution.

Another mechanism you might look into, is the CDROM audio cable.
Some people still connect the CDROM audio cable to the white
four pin header on their motherboard. The cable has four wires,
and the intent was for differential transmission and reception.
But on the motherboard end, the reception might be single ended,
and do a poor job at common mode noise removal.

So for that one, there are two possibilities. You listen to a
CD, and pick up all manner of "digital" beeps and boops in
the background. Removing the audio cable, and switching to
digital audio extraction (packet audio from the CD drive),
eliminated that as a source.

But even if you weren't listening to a CD, that white connector
could pick up noise. On the "Recording" audio interface,
remember to "mute" all recording inputs you are not using. For
example, any path with sensitive input (microphone in), might be
a source of noise pickup. Right now, I'm using the
Line In (1V RMS levels) from an external source. Which
doesn't amplify much. And my background audio is quiet.
My audio likely doesn't have -110dB performance figure,
but at least it isn't beeping and booping while I work.
Everything but Line In is muted.

HTH,
Paul

Paul wrote:
Bill wrote:

My personal preference is for fixed fan speed, even if a little
noisy. I tend to forget about it after a while. When a fan
wanders around speed wise, it tends to attract unwanted
attention.

If the PWM signal is not connected to anything (it is left
floating), the fan would run at 100% speed. So if you were
to connect the four pin fan to a three pin header, the fourth
signal which is PWM, hangs in the air and is not connected. And
that's one way to get 100% fixed fan speed.
On my current Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4P motherboard, I ended up
having to disable the "CPU Smart Fan Control", because otherwise the
audio was detecting my mouse movement and making very annoying noises
(sort of "following me around").
I assume that this feature is the same as PWM. If there is anyone
here who could
possibly explain that phenonema, I expect it is you or Flasherly! If
it happens again,
then PWM is just a waste of money... FWIW, I have a Logitech corded
mouse, but, IIRC, I tried another mouse too.

Bill


PWM (Intel style) operates at 25KHz. The pulse width of
the square wave signal varies, as an indicator of how fast
the fan is to go.

The 25KHz was selected specifically tn not be in the audio band.
While it is possible to alias an out of band signal down into
the audible range, you would need a suitable signal to do that.

Similarly, the CCFL tubes on your LCD monitor, run at 25KHz. And
that's another attempt to prevent things like coil noise from
an inverter, being heard by the user.

I've not read any posts, tracing noise to PWM. But of course
stranger things have happened.

*******

Motherboard audio doesn't have a particularly clean noise floor.
The quickest fix, is reach for a $10 PCI sound card and use that
in a PCI slot. Alternately, you can also get a USB dongle that
looks like a flash stick, with a couple 1/8" connectors on the
bottom, and the green connector on that is Line Out. That's another
way to potentially replace motherboard audio.

If the motherboard audio (HDAudio or AC'97) runs in parallel with
NIC drive wires (to the motherboard side of the Ethernet
isolation transformer0, the audio can pick that up. That gives
noises in response to packets on the NIC.

The motherboard audio must be powered with something. If it
were to run off +5VSB say, and the mouse runs off +5VSB, perhaps
the sound of the mouse leaks through that way. You may notice
a three terminal regulator on the motherboard, next to the
HDAudio chip, which is an attempt to provide "clean" unshared
power to the HDAudio chip. That might take +12V and make
+5V for the audio. No other circuit should use that power.

Some motherboards now, have decent audio performance. Older
motherboards, audio was an afterthought. It was the appearance
of RightMark, and audio testing, that perhaps alerted motherboard
makers to the need to clean up their act (bad PR). Now, you can find
pretty strange attempts at shielding. Some of which are mainly
for show (random strips of metal with branding printed on them).
Some of the effective solutions, are just layout changes in the
PCB, to route audio signals away from noise sources. But bulk
shielding has been known to buy 10dB in noise floor, so there
is some evidence that such helps. My current audio solution
(came with motherboard), is in a shielded box. Presumably so
it wouldn't look like an unshielded solution.

Another mechanism you might look into, is the CDROM audio cable.
Some people still connect the CDROM audio cable to the white
four pin header on their motherboard. The cable has four wires,
and the intent was for differential transmission and reception.
But on the motherboard end, the reception might be single ended,
and do a poor job at common mode noise removal.

So for that one, there are two possibilities. You listen to a
CD, and pick up all manner of "digital" beeps and boops in
the background. Removing the audio cable, and switching to
digital audio extraction (packet audio from the CD drive),
eliminated that as a source.

But even if you weren't listening to a CD, that white connector
could pick up noise. On the "Recording" audio interface,
remember to "mute" all recording inputs you are not using. For
example, any path with sensitive input (microphone in), might be
a source of noise pickup. Right now, I'm using the
Line In (1V RMS levels) from an external source. Which
doesn't amplify much. And my background audio is quiet.
My audio likely doesn't have -110dB performance figure,
but at least it isn't beeping and booping while I work.
Everything but Line In is muted.

HTH,
Paul
Your post was very interesting. However recall that disabling "CPU
Smart Fan Control"
completely eliminated the problem (I got the solution from an online
forum). Does my problem suggest that the circuit which helped provide PWM
created some sort of interfering electric field on the board, somehow
allowing the audio to detect mouse action events?
Obviously, I am not an EE but I am still interested in how the problem
manifested itself.

Bill