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#1
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Laptop boots to blank screen
Hi all,
I received a laptop to fix today .. It behaves like it is overheating but I'm not sure. When the power button is pressed the laptop fan whirs for about 2 seconds and then nothing happens the screen is left blank, no further activity. If I pull the power cable out, push it back in, then press the power button the same thing happens, However if I power down by holding the power button for 7 seconds (leaving the power cable attached); the fan whirrs for 2 seconds as before, but then the laptop appears to cut the power (as if it is overheating) ... then 2 seconds later the fan whirrs on as if the laptop is rebooting. Nothing appears on the screen .. I did manage to boot as far as the windows logo by leaving the laptop in a cold room for an hour and then trying. So you see why it points to overheating .. but on the other hand when I feel the heatsink with my finger it does not feel too hot at all! (I had another laptop overheat, and it felt hot alright) any ideas? |
#2
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Laptop boots to blank screen
"someone_else" wrote in message ... Hi all, I received a laptop to fix today .. It behaves like it is overheating but I'm not sure. When the power button is pressed the laptop fan whirs for about 2 seconds and then nothing happens the screen is left blank, no further activity. If I pull the power cable out, push it back in, then press the power button the same thing happens, However if I power down by holding the power button for 7 seconds (leaving the power cable attached); the fan whirrs for 2 seconds as before, but then the laptop appears to cut the power (as if it is overheating) ... then 2 seconds later the fan whirrs on as if the laptop is rebooting. Nothing appears on the screen .. I did manage to boot as far as the windows logo by leaving the laptop in a cold room for an hour and then trying. So you see why it points to overheating .. but on the other hand when I feel the heatsink with my finger it does not feel too hot at all! (I had another laptop overheat, and it felt hot alright) any ideas? I should add I tried the laptop with the hard drive out, then with the memory out, I also tested it with the battery and had the same results. ( I had to remove it when the laptop would not shut down during the endless rebooting) Could it be a problem with the GPU heatsink? (I've only been looking at the CPU heatsink) I'm not sure where on this thing the GPU heatsink is. (it's a Packard bell Easynote) The other thing I considered .. maybe there's a voltage problem on some component . but I don't know where to start looking .. |
#3
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Laptop boots to blank screen
"someone_else" wrote in message ... "someone_else" wrote in message ... Hi all, I received a laptop to fix today .. It behaves like it is overheating but I'm not sure. When the power button is pressed the laptop fan whirs for about 2 seconds and then nothing happens the screen is left blank, no further activity. If I pull the power cable out, push it back in, then press the power button the same thing happens, However if I power down by holding the power button for 7 seconds (leaving the power cable attached); the fan whirrs for 2 seconds as before, but then the laptop appears to cut the power (as if it is overheating) ... then 2 seconds later the fan whirrs on as if the laptop is rebooting. Nothing appears on the screen .. I did manage to boot as far as the windows logo by leaving the laptop in a cold room for an hour and then trying. So you see why it points to overheating .. but on the other hand when I feel the heatsink with my finger it does not feel too hot at all! (I had another laptop overheat, and it felt hot alright) any ideas? I should add I tried the laptop with the hard drive out, then with the memory out, I also tested it with the battery and had the same results. ( I had to remove it when the laptop would not shut down during the endless rebooting) Could it be a problem with the GPU heatsink? (I've only been looking at the CPU heatsink) I'm not sure where on this thing the GPU heatsink is. (it's a Packard bell Easynote) The other thing I considered .. maybe there's a voltage problem on some component . but I don't know where to start looking .. It's cooling down in this room now, I connected the power cable, press the power button and again it's got a far as the windows logo screen and has stopped, the logo screen is just sitting there, no activity. I add this to my report only to speculate that if the CPU or the GPU were overheating surely they would overheat even in this halted state. The CPU fan is not even blowing. So I therefore don't believe the laptop is overheating at all. any ideas? |
#4
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Laptop boots to blank screen
On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 02:13:57 +0100, "someone_else"
wrote: "someone_else" wrote in message ... I should add I tried the laptop with the hard drive out, then with the memory out, I also tested it with the battery and had the same results. ( I had to remove it when the laptop would not shut down during the endless rebooting) You won't be able to get it to do anything without the memory installed. Next time you are able to get it to POST and attempt to boot, boot to a Memtest86+ CDR and run memtest86+ for a half hour noting whether it locks up or produces any errors. Could it be a problem with the GPU heatsink? (I've only been looking at the CPU heatsink) I'm not sure where on this thing the GPU heatsink is. (it's a Packard bell Easynote) If it has integrated chipset video then the GPU is built into the northbridge, which is often cooled by the same heatpipe assembly that cools the CPU, so look around for another smaller chip under the heatpipe. A separate discrete GPU could also be under the same heatsink, or if you see a 2nd heatsink that's more likely where it would be if 2nd 'sink isn't southbridge. Seek a service manual for it which may list component location, and you might seek a similar model mainboard on ebay or a laptop parts store online to see if you can find a picture of the mainboard large enough to make out components on it. The other thing I considered .. maybe there's a voltage problem on some component . but I don't know where to start looking .. If there is a voltage problem that is not due to malfunctioning AC adapter, it seems beyond your ability to find and fix a mainboard problem so that would suggest needing a new mainboard. Memory, like mainboard can have bad solder joints that break open when they get warm so if you have different memory or another system to test the memory in, that might rule it out. It's cooling down in this room now, I connected the power cable, press the power button and again it's got a far as the windows logo screen and has stopped, the logo screen is just sitting there, no activity. I add this to my report only to speculate that if the CPU or the GPU were overheating surely they would overheat even in this halted state. The CPU fan is not even blowing. So I therefore don't believe the laptop is overheating at all. any ideas? Usually if/when a fan fails, it's due to the bearing being shot. Push on the fan blades, use something long and thin like a straw or small paint brush if it's hard to access the fan, and see if the fan spins freely when you give it a little nudge, or if it seems stiff like the bearing has failed. However, this seems unlikely as you previously reported it was spinning, but some fans become problematic when they get warmer causing different tolerance in the bearing... I'm just trying to rule a few things out since only you can see the laptop and I don't know if it is designed to totally turn the fan off when it's not very hot or only spin it at low RPM. Best guess failing any further evidence from comments above is that the mainboard has failed. You could pull it out and inspect it in case anything is visually obvious, but otherwise you are left deciding what whole laptop would be worth if it worked again and weighing that against replacement mainboard cost if it's no longer under warranty. |
#5
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Laptop boots to blank screen
someone_else wrote:
Hi all, I received a laptop to fix today .. It behaves like it is overheating but I'm not sure. When the power button is pressed the laptop fan whirs for about 2 seconds and then nothing happens the screen is left blank, no further activity. If I pull the power cable out, push it back in, then press the power button the same thing happens, However if I power down by holding the power button for 7 seconds (leaving the power cable attached); the fan whirrs for 2 seconds as before, but then the laptop appears to cut the power (as if it is overheating) ... then 2 seconds later the fan whirrs on as if the laptop is rebooting. Nothing appears on the screen .. I did manage to boot as far as the windows logo by leaving the laptop in a cold room for an hour and then trying. So you see why it points to overheating .. but on the other hand when I feel the heatsink with my finger it does not feel too hot at all! (I had another laptop overheat, and it felt hot alright) any ideas? A heatsink can be cold for two reasons. 1) It can be so well cooled, for the level of power being dissipated, that it ends up having a low temperature. 2) If the heatsink is not making contact with the hot object, then the heatsink will remain cold. That is my suspicion in your case. When a heatsink is attached to a processor, usually a thermal interface material (TIM) of some sort, is applied between the heatsink and the processor, to promote good heat conduction. On my current computer for example, the heatsink and the top of the CPU are not flat, so there isn't contact over the entire area. I use thermal paste, to bridge the gap. Only a little is needed, a thin film, enough to fill surface irregularities - if you apply too much, it gushes out and gets into the processor socket. Which can upset the electrical connections. I usually "calibrate" by first applying a very small dot of paste (half a rice grain). Then squish it into place with the heatsink. Now, take it apart, and estimate how much larger the next application would have to be, for the paste to reach the edge of the mating surfaces. Add a little more, because you want the gap to be "wet" and be showing some paste. But not so much, that it drips down on stuff. Between applications, you clean off all the loose material, before applying fresh paste. I use isopropyl alcohol, which isn't really the correct solvent. There is a kit, which does a better job if you want something that really dissolves the paste. After cleaning, you want to allow the thing to dry, before applying the paste. Any material which dilutes the paste, even fibers from a cleaning rag, can reduce the cooling efficiency a bit. (Cleaner, for rich people) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835100010 (Ceramique - a thermal paste) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835100009 There are other materials besides paste. There are thermal pads of various sorts. There are phase change materials, which are sometimes screen-printed onto the surfaces, by the manufacturer. But paste is the thing which consumers have the easiest time buying. That doesn't mean it is the best, from the end user point of view, because paste occasionally needs to be reapplied (it can dry out or squeeze out, of the gap). I still have my original tube of AS3, and that stuff lasts a long time. Mine has actually started to separate in the tube. That is how old it is. Everything inside a laptop, breaks easily. Take care. Good luck, Paul |
#6
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Laptop boots to blank screen
On Apr 4, 9:49*pm, Paul wrote:
someone_else wrote: Hi all, I received a laptop to fix today .. It behaves like it is overheating but I'm not sure. When the power button is pressed the laptop fan whirs for about 2 seconds and then nothing happens the screen is left blank, no further activity. If I pull the power cable out, push it back in, then press the power button the same thing happens, However if I power down by holding the power button for 7 seconds (leaving the power cable attached); the fan whirrs for 2 seconds as before, but then the laptop appears to cut the power (as if it is overheating) ... then 2 seconds later the fan whirrs on as if the laptop is rebooting. Nothing appears on the screen .. I did manage to boot as far as the windows logo by leaving the laptop in *a cold room for an hour and then trying. So you see why it points to overheating .. but on the other hand when I feel the heatsink with my finger it does not feel too hot at all! (I had another laptop overheat, and it felt hot alright) any ideas? A heatsink can be cold for two reasons. 1) It can be so well cooled, for the level of power being dissipated, * * that it ends up having a low temperature. 2) If the heatsink is not making contact with the hot object, then * * the heatsink will remain cold. That is my suspicion in your case. Thanks for replying! If the heatsink is not making contact would it not shut down in all cases? At the moment, the laptop does remain powered up, (but only after I disconnect and reconnect the power), and with a blank screen. Yesterday it got as far as the windows logo screen before it froze. If it was overheating would it not shut down in that case? I really need to try thermal paste in any case, there is nothing to lose. cheers! |
#7
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Laptop boots to blank screen
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#9
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Laptop boots to blank screen
someone_else wrote:
I tried Memtest boot disk, Knoppix live cd and Windows XP install disk. Nothing appeared on screen, they all spun in the drive for a second but nothing seemed to happen after that. I tried pressing a key or two (return for example) to see if any seeks were initiated but no joy, no noises from the CD drive. Any ideas on why the laptop no longer makes it to the windows logo screen, when a couple of days ago it made it into windows, once, and then froze? Here's a theory: Maybe there was a loose wire/connection to the GPU/LCD, maybe it came loose (er) and caused a short, causing the laptop to refuse to continue the POST. Think I'll take it apart again, this time I'll look at the connections to the LCD, they are not easy to follow unless it's completely disassembled. On a desktop, I'd use a "beep test" as a test case. Removing the RAM on a desktop, causes the processor to beep the PC speaker. It proves two things. The computer realizes it doesn't have any RAM. But the beep sound is made under program control, and when you hear the "beep", you know the processor went down through the Northbrdge and Southbridge, and read code from the BIOS EEPROM. So it executed some BIOS code, in order to know how to beep. Sometimes, bad RAM will cause the BIOS program to get stuck, and it cannot beep even though the RAM is bad. If removing the RAM, gives a beep, then you'd suspect bad RAM was holding it hostage. You need to concentrate on some lower level tests, and give up on Windows for now. Simplify the setup. Disconnect the hard drive and optical drive cabling. Experiment with removing the memory. A laptop may have an LCD display, but it also has a VGA or DVI connector on the back. You can try plugging a monitor in there, if you suspect the LCD is no longer working. The most likely cause of a "black" LCD screen, is a backlight failure. There is a CCFL tube behind the screen, that provides the light. The tube is driven by a small board called an inverter. It converts 12VDC to 1000 VAC at low current. That is what causes the CCFL gas filled tube to light up. The CCFL draws about 3 watts of power, so is not a strong light source. The "LCD" part of the display is more reliable than the light source. But just as easily, a failure to execute BIOS code, will also cause a black screen (GPU not programmed etc). So you cannot for certain, associate a black screen, with a bad backlight. It could be black for other reasons. I see no reason to play with the LCD at the moment. If you know your laptop beeps at startup, work with that to start with. And if you really think the display is busted, use an external LCD monitor and a VGA cable. There is probably some key you press, to get into the BIOS. On the machines here, the two different keys they use, are the Delete key and F2. Different brands of computers choose to use a different key, so check the user manual to know for sure. "Fn F5" might change the display, to use the external VGA, but that would only work if some software is there to intercept the key press. As far as I know, switching to the VGA connector is not a direct hardware type feature. Getting into the BIOS is an even lower level check than trying to run Windows. Seeing the name of the hard drive and of the optical drive, in the BIOS, would be proof of a little bit of communications working with them. The inside of the laptop contains power conversion circuits. They convert battery voltage, into lower voltages that run the logic. Your symptoms are also consistent with a failure in those circuits. Even bad capacitors could do it (give variable startup results, run for a short period of time and so on). It isn't necessarily a logic failure - it could be related to how things are powered internally. Good luck, Paul |
#10
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Laptop boots to blank screen
On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 01:48:08 +0100, "someone_else"
wrote: Hi all, I received a laptop to fix today .. It behaves like it is overheating but I'm not sure. It's always good to start out mentioning the specific make, model, spec of the hardware. When the power button is pressed the laptop fan whirs for about 2 seconds and then nothing happens the screen is left blank, no further activity. But the laptop remains powered, LEDs lit at least? If I pull the power cable out, push it back in, then press the power button the same thing happens, However if I power down by holding the power button for 7 seconds (leaving the power cable attached); the fan whirrs for 2 seconds as before, but then the laptop appears to cut the power (as if it is overheating) ... then 2 seconds later the fan whirrs on as if the laptop is rebooting. Nothing appears on the screen .. You mean when you try to turn it on again after holding down the power button for 7 seconds, or that it tries to start on it's own without your having pressed the button? Is the battery still installed at this point or you have no battery or it won't hold a charge, or ?? I did manage to boot as far as the windows logo by leaving the laptop in a cold room for an hour and then trying. So you see why it points to overheating .. but on the other hand when I feel the heatsink with my finger it does not feel too hot at all! (I had another laptop overheat, and it felt hot alright) Not necessarily overheating, it might be or it could be a bad solder joint or crack elsewhere on the PCB, especially considering laptops are subject to a lot more stress than a desktop. What is the history of the system? Has anyone else mucked around inside it? Generally speaking the heatsink interface won't go bad all by itself, it would require someone to take the 'sink off and try to reuse the thermal interface material again if it's a phase-change waxy pad instead of a silicone rubber pad. When it feels cool, is this always when it shows no response on-screen or does it also feel cool when you are able to get it to start booting windows? If it has had the battery installed all this time, try it without the battery, and vice-versa, if you'd been using the AC adapter try charging the battery and using only battery power. |
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