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How Move OS XP from Old to New HD?



 
 
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  #71  
Old January 12th 04, 12:01 AM
Rod Speed
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Nehmo Sergheyev wrote in message
...

- Nehmo -
DiscWizard is Seagate's copying program.


- Rod Speed -
No point in bothering with that now that you have ghost 2003
Start again using ghost 2003


- Nehmo -
I was eager to get things going, and the
Seagate product literature, being much better
laid out than Maxtor's, was convincing.


And you have now discovered that what appears
to be a gold nugget can in fact be a dog turd |-)

There's a message there, grasshopper.

The user interface on Seagate's software, DiscWizard,
looks more professional than that of MaxBlast too.


Sure, but its clearly deficient anyway
when the reality doesnt match the promise.

Anyway, Seagate's Ultra ATA/100 Quick Installation
guide (which mentions Windows XP, so it must have
been written after the OS came out),


True, but it clearly doesnt cover that fundamental with XP anyway.

in the section 2A third bullet
".I want to make my new Seagate drive the boot drive (master).
For this option see 'Before You Begin' to use Disc Wizard to
install your drive and convert it to a boot drive. "
'Before You Begin' explains how to install DiscWizard.


DiscWizard takes you through copying the old HD to the New.
The implication is that you are to set the jumpers as indicated
in 3, which is new=slave and old=master. The cable connecting
section says slave goes into the secondary (middle gray) connector
and the master goes into the primary (end, black) connector.


This leads to "7E: Make your new drive the boot drive (optional).
b) reconfigure the drives.. 2) change the jumpers to configure your
new Seagate drive as the master and your old drive as the slave.
4)Your computer recognizes and boots from your new hard drive..
If necessary, see step 6C for BIOS/CMOS setup instructions."


And those instructions clearly arent right for XP.

Its crucial that XP cant see both the original
and the clone during the first boot after the clone.

Those instructions deal with if the BIOS doesn't
detect the drives, but mine detects the drives all
right, it just can load the OS from the new drive.


This is all the info I have on my BIOS. I got it from
running SiSoftware Sandra http://www.sisoftware.net/ :


General Information
Manufacturer : Phoenix Technologies LTD
Version : Version 1.01
Date : 02/24/2000
Plug & Play Version : 1.00
SMBIOS/DMI Version : 2.30
(EE)PROM Size : 256kB (2Mbit)


General Capabilities
Can be Updated/Flashed : Yes
Can be Shadowed : Yes
Is Socketed : No
Supports Plug & Play : Yes
Supports ESCD : Yes
Supports Enhanced Disk Drive : Yes
NEC PC-98 Spec Compatible : No


Power Management Features
Supports APM : Yes
Supports ACPI : Yes
Supports Smart Battery : No


Boot Features
Supports Selective Booting : Yes
Supports CD/DVD Boot : Yes
Supports PCMCIA/CardBus Boot : No
Supports LS-120 Boot : Yes
Supports ZIP Boot : Yes
Supports i2o Boot : No
Supports FireWire/1394 Boot : No
Supports BIOS Boot Block : Yes
Supports Interactive Network Boot : No


This time I'm trying Ghost 2003. I currently have
Old=master & at primary position on cable
New=slave & at secondary position on cable


The position on the cable doesnt matter when
master/slave jumpering is used, thats only
important when cable select jumpering is used.

So after I use Ghost, should I change the jumpers
and the cable position to the opposite of the above?


Doesnt really matter much, any config that will allow the new
drive to be booted with the original drive not connected is fine.
But yes, the new drive jumpered as master is best, with the
old drive not connected at all for the first boot.

But that wont work with WD drives, they have a unique jumper
config when the drive is the only drive on the cable. Not relevant
to you, I've just included that for anyone who uses this thread later.

Should I try cable select on both of them this time?


Shouldnt matter, should work fine either way.


  #72  
Old January 12th 04, 04:05 AM
Nehmo Sergheyev
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Posts: n/a
Default

Success! - almost complete, I still haven't added the original drive
back on. But I'm booting off the new drive all by itself.

- Nehmo -
This time I'm trying Ghost 2003. I currently have
Old=master & at primary position on cable
New=slave & at secondary position on cable


- Rod Speed -
The position on the cable doesnt matter when
master/slave jumpering is used, thats only
important when cable select jumpering is used.


- Nehmo -
I used the jumper and cable-position settings described above to do the
cloning.

Ghost 2003 first objected to the Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse,
saying it couldn't determine what USB device was there; consequently, I
would have to load something manually with the Advanced button. I wasn't
worried about that, so I skipped doing anything about it. I still have
the mouse CD and I have a corded mouse around here somewhere - if I
really needed to use it.

Next, Ghost 2003 said it couldn't defragment the virtual partition, and
recommended that I first defragment via the OS utility. I deleted stuff
and defraged. It wasn't enough, and Ghost 2003 displayed the same
objection. I deleted yet more and drfraged again. Oddly, I found I
couldn't delete Scansoft.OmniPage.Pro.14.iso . The delete refusal
warning said the 451 MB iso file was in use. I think that has something
to do with the way Daemon Tools 3.41
http://www.daemon-tools.cc/portal/portal.php "opened" (or mounted) the
file. I think the process was equivalent to making a virtual disk. This
"file" is listed in Daemon Tools as Device 0: [D:] path-to-file on C.
It's shown in My Computer next to the other dirves as OPO165001-10281
(D .

In any case, after the second defrag, Ghost 2003 began to run. It shut
down Windows and ran from DOS. After it completed, it started Windows
again - still from the old drive. Ghost 2003 then displayed a message
and Y/N buttons saying I needed to restart to get the settings for the
new hardware to establish. I pressed No because I wanted to shut down
rather than restart. Restarting wouldn't give me enough time to
disconnect the old drive and change the jumper settings. I pressed No,
and then shut down normally.

I then completely disconnected the old HD, left the new HD in its middle
position on the ATA cable, and added the jumper to make the new HD
master. I started, and Windows booted-up properly. I'm now using only
the new drive. The same message about the hardware setting came up
again, but I ignored.

Now I'm going to send this, turn off, add the old drive, then start
again. I'll see you then.

--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************



  #73  
Old January 12th 04, 05:15 AM
Timothy Daniels
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Default


"Rod Speed" wrote:
"Timothy Daniels" wrot
.......do the cloning again, but
shut down and disconnect the old hard drive before booting
up with the new copy. As our beloved R. Speed said, that
hiding of the old OS is *crucial*.


Different symptoms tho. If you dont do that, it should boot fine,
and only have a problem when the old drive is disconnected
because the boot will use stuff off both drives.



With Drive Image 2002, I don't get a bootable drive on
the new disk if I don't disconnect the old disk before the 1st
bootup. All the files and the file structure are there except
for (I guess) the master boot record. It's great for archiving
files, but not for making a bootable backup system or a
replacement system.


As for changing around the jumpers - that may not
really be necessary unless you move the new HD
to the end of the cable and remove the old HD.


Thats comprehensively mangled too. You can EITHER
use master/slave jumpers in which case the connector
used is irrelevant, OR you can jumper the drives for
cable select, use a cable select cable, which any new
cable 80 conductor cable should be, and THEN the drive
priority is determined by the connector its plugged into.



If one disconnects just the power plug from the old drive,
leaving the data plug connected to the disk drive to prevent
signal reflections, I believe the new drive may be left jumpered
as Slave and left at the intermediate connector and it will
boot up despite not being Master and not being at the end
connector. (I haven't yet tried this.) As I understand Master/
Slave, though, it is to implement data collision avoidance at the
IDE channel level, and the rest of the system just sees 2 drives
without any reference to Master/Slave attributes. Thus my
comment about the jumpering not mattering for the solo first
bootup of the new drive.



With Windows XP, if you re-connect the old HD, the OS
will detect the other OS at some point and exercise its
multi-boot capability, giving you the option of choosing
the old OS or the new OS to boot up each boot time.


Thats utterly mangled in spades. It wont automatically
setup an auto boot config if you say install XP on a
drive, and then plug in say a bootable SE drive. You
have to have the SE drive visible at install time for
XP to automatically include the multiboot capabilty.



My comments, and this thread, are about the 2 WinXP
systems which result from the cloning of a WinXP system.
In my experience in using Drive Image 2002 to clone a
Windows XP Pro drive I've been unable to *avoid*
generating a dual-boot option. What I get repeatedly is
a boot.ini file which names both WinXP OSes as options
for a dual boot. At some point, I don't know exactly when,
the 2nd WinXP is seen by the first, and the dual boot option
is implemented. I have to go back into the boot.ini files in
both OSes and comment out the 2nd WinXP name (by
surrounding it with square brackets) to avoid the dual boot
option dialog each time I boot one or the other drive.



There isnt any easy way to add multiboot capability
later, after the install. It can be done, but not auto.

And XP wont automatically setup multiboots between
a number of XP installs on different drives either.



As I said, I can't *avoid* it. That's pretty much auto.


You can either use this feature


There is no such 'feature'



You coulda fooled *me*!


or you can adjust the OS names list in the OS's boot.ini
files (making 2 single-boot systems) and select the OS
to boot by changing the boot sequence list in the BIOS.


And you can tell XP to scan for other installed OSs and setup
a multiboot for that, but not between multiple installs of XP.



I didn't mention multiple installs. I've been referring to
cloning of a WinXP OS from one drive to another.



If you choose the multi-boot feature, it helps to change the
OS names in the boot.ini files to something like "WinXP old"
and WinXP new" to help you in selecting the right OS to boot up.


And a multiboot config with multiple XP boots has to be setup
manually by manually edititing boot.ini anyway, quite apart from
the naming.



Somehow the multi-boot feature gets enabled everytime I clone
my WinXP system.



It also helps to put a folder on the desktop having
a name which indicates which OS is running or to
select a desktop background to indicate that.


And he doesnt even want multibooting between XP installs anyway.



Neither do I, but somehow the cloning of WinXP gives it to me.


*TimDaniels*

  #74  
Old January 12th 04, 06:29 AM
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
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Default


Timothy Daniels wrote in
message ...
Rod Speed wrote
Timothy Daniels wrote
Nehmo Sergheyev wrote


When I get to step 5, starting up again, I get, "Error loading OS".


...do the cloning again, but shut down and disconnect the
old hard drive before booting up with the new copy. As our
beloved R. Speed said, that hiding of the old OS is *crucial*.


Different symptoms tho. If you dont do that, it should boot fine,
and only have a problem when the old drive is disconnected
because the boot will use stuff off both drives.


With Drive Image 2002, I don't get a bootable drive
on the new disk if I don't disconnect the old disk
before the 1st bootup. All the files and the file structure
are there except for (I guess) the master boot record.


Presumably you cloned the partition, not the physical drive.

Works fine for me with DI 2002 when cloning the physical drive.

It's great for archiving files, but not for making a
bootable backup system or a replacement system.


Works fine for me, tho I normally do it when putting a bigger
physical drive in place of a too small one, rather than for
backup. I prefer to do image backups, mainly so I can keep
more than just the latest so I can step back gracefully if a
significant change turns out to have operational downsides.

And I normally clone the physical drive in the drive upgrade
situation because its a lot faster than restoring the image
across the lan and I have to have the system open anyway.

As for changing around the jumpers - that may not
really be necessary unless you move the new HD
to the end of the cable and remove the old HD.


Thats comprehensively mangled too. You can EITHER
use master/slave jumpers in which case the connector
used is irrelevant, OR you can jumper the drives for
cable select, use a cable select cable, which any new
cable 80 conductor cable should be, and THEN the drive
priority is determined by the connector its plugged into.


If one disconnects just the power plug from
the old drive, leaving the data plug connected
to the disk drive to prevent signal reflections,


Thats never a good idea. And you wont prevent reflections
by having the drive connected but not powered anyway.

I believe the new drive may be left jumpered
as Slave and left at the intermediate connector
and it will boot up despite not being Master


That varys with the drive. Some drives are happy to be
the only drive on a ribbon cable jumpered as slave, and
some arent. That flouts the ATA standard anyway.

and not being at the end connector.


Doesnt matter if its the end connector with a
temporary config, just the first boot after the clone.

(I haven't yet tried this.)


Thats obvious.

As I understand Master/Slave, though, it is to implement
data collision avoidance at the IDE channel level,


Nope, nothing to do with collision avoidance
whatever. There are no collisions with ATA.

and the rest of the system just sees 2 drives
without any reference to Master/Slave attributes.


Utterly mangled all over again.

Thus my comment about the jumpering not
mattering for the solo first bootup of the new drive.


You're wrong. If the new drive is a WD, it
just plain wont work jumpered as slave and
the only drive on the cable in most systems.

Its not just a problem with WD drives either.

With Windows XP, if you re-connect the old HD, the OS
will detect the other OS at some point and exercise its
multi-boot capability, giving you the option of choosing
the old OS or the new OS to boot up each boot time.


Thats utterly mangled in spades. It wont automatically
setup an auto boot config if you say install XP on a
drive, and then plug in say a bootable SE drive. You
have to have the SE drive visible at install time for
XP to automatically include the multiboot capabilty.


My comments, and this thread, are about the 2 WinXP
systems which result from the cloning of a WinXP system.


You will never see XP automatically setup
a multiboot config however you clone XP.

If the original drive is visible to XP on the first boot,
and you tell the bios to boot the clone, XP will get
seriously confused and will boot from the clone and
use quite a bit of the XP basics from the original drive.
That will boot fine, BUT you'll find that if you disconnect
or reformat the original drive later, the boot will fail,
because XP configured the boot to use XP components
from both physical drives and that stuff will be gone
when the original drive is gone.

In my experience in using Drive Image 2002 to
clone a Windows XP Pro drive I've been unable
to *avoid* generating a dual-boot option.


God knows what you were doing, presumably you got
that result when thrashing around after you didnt clone
the physical drive but cloned the XP boot partition to the
new drive instead, and you then manually ran one of the
utes thats will repair a broken XP boot.

You certainly wont get a multiboot config if you clone
the physical drive, disconnect the original drive for
the first XP boot after the cloning, have the clone
boot fine, and comment that its seen new hardware,
request a reboot because of that, allow that reboot,
boot off the clone again, turn the system off, plug the
original drive back in again and boot of the clone again.

You still have the simple XP boot and the original
drive is visible at the XP level and can be formatted
etc and the clone will still boot fine after you have
formatted the original drive.

What I get repeatedly is a boot.ini file which
names both WinXP OSes as options for a dual boot.


Only if you use one of the utes that scans
for other than the XP you've booted from.
You'll never get that auto just by plugging
the original drive back in again.

At some point, I don't know exactly when, the 2nd WinXP
is seen by the first, and the dual boot option is implemented.


Likely because you told it to scan for
other OSs and add them to the boot config.

I have to go back into the boot.ini files in both OSes
and comment out the 2nd WinXP name (by surrounding
it with square brackets) to avoid the dual boot option
dialog each time I boot one or the other drive.


Only if you tell it to scan for other OSs.

And for completeness, that will only find other OSs
from the NT/2K/WP family, it wont find say a 98SE
bootable drive thats been plugged back in later.

There isnt any easy way to add multiboot capability
later, after the install. It can be done, but not auto.


And XP wont automatically setup multiboots between
a number of XP installs on different drives either.


As I said, I can't *avoid* it.


Only because you clone wouldnt boot because you cloned
the partition and not the physical drive and you had to
repair the boot using one of the available ways to do that.

That's pretty much auto.


Nope, nothing auto about it.

You can either use this feature


There is no such 'feature'


You coulda fooled *me*!


You've fooled yourself.

or you can adjust the OS names list in the OS's boot.ini
files (making 2 single-boot systems) and select the OS
to boot by changing the boot sequence list in the BIOS.


And you can tell XP to scan for other installed OSs and setup
a multiboot for that, but not between multiple installs of XP.


I didn't mention multiple installs. I've been referring to
cloning of a WinXP OS from one drive to another.


Which produces multiple installs.

If you choose the multi-boot feature, it helps to change the
OS names in the boot.ini files to something like "WinXP old"
and WinXP new" to help you in selecting the right OS to boot up.


And a multiboot config with multiple XP boots
has to be setup manually by manually edititing
boot.ini anyway, quite apart from the naming.


Somehow the multi-boot feature gets
enabled everytime I clone my WinXP system.


Because you have to repair the boot of the clone when it wont
boot, because you cloned the partition, not the physical drive.

It also helps to put a folder on the desktop having
a name which indicates which OS is running or to
select a desktop background to indicate that.


And he doesnt even want multibooting between XP installs anyway.


Neither do I, but somehow the cloning of WinXP gives it to me.


Not the cloning didnt, that was the repair
you had to do when the clone wouldnt boot.



  #75  
Old January 12th 04, 06:43 AM
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Nehmo Sergheyev wrote in message
...

Success! - almost complete,


Dangerous business bragging before its all home and hosed |-)

I still haven't added the original drive back on.
But I'm booting off the new drive all by itself.


One small step for Nehmokind |-)

- Nehmo -
This time I'm trying Ghost 2003. I currently have
Old=master & at primary position on cable
New=slave & at secondary position on cable


- Rod Speed -
The position on the cable doesnt matter when
master/slave jumpering is used, thats only
important when cable select jumpering is used.


- Nehmo -
I used the jumper and cable-position settings
described above to do the cloning.


Ghost 2003 first objected to the Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse,
saying it couldn't determine what USB device was there; consequently,
I would have to load something manually with the Advanced button.
I wasn't worried about that, so I skipped doing anything about it.


Yeah, thats fine, it rabbits on about my Logitech wireless optical too.

I still have the mouse CD and I have a corded mouse
around here somewhere - if I really needed to use it.


Yeah, me too, in fact its in the mess of cables, just needs to
be plugged in. You may not have noticed that you can actually
have both plugged in and they'll both work fine simultaneously.

Next, Ghost 2003 said it couldn't defragment the virtual partition,
and recommended that I first defragment via the OS utility.


Yeah, thats one real quirk with Ghost, it writes
its DOS boot virtual partition rather crudely and
needs contiguous space to write that into.

I deleted stuff and defraged. It wasn't enough,
and Ghost 2003 displayed the same objection.
I deleted yet more and drfraged again.


You could have written the rescue floppy and booted off that too
or have booted off the distribution CD if you had had one of those.
Or just booted off an image file written to CD by Ghost too.

Oddly, I found I couldn't delete Scansoft.OmniPage.Pro.14.iso .
The delete refusal warning said the 451 MB iso file was in use.
I think that has something to do with the way Daemon Tools 3.41
http://www.daemon-tools.cc/portal/portal.php "opened" (or mounted)
the file. I think the process was equivalent to making a virtual disk.
This "file" is listed in Daemon Tools as Device 0: [D:] path-to-file on C.
It's shown in My Computer next to the other dirves as OPO165001-10281 (D .


In any case, after the second defrag, Ghost 2003 began to run.


Yeah, I had to give it a good kicking before it was happy to
find the space for the virtual dos boot on one system, same
problem, just lack of space. Rather silly really when you'd often
be using ghost to clone a hard drive that you are replacing with
a new big drive. Drive Image does that much better.

It shut down Windows and ran from DOS. After it completed,
it started Windows again - still from the old drive. Ghost 2003
then displayed a message and Y/N buttons saying I needed to
restart to get the settings for the new hardware to establish.
I pressed No because I wanted to shut down rather than
restart. Restarting wouldn't give me enough time to disconnect
the old drive and change the jumper settings. I pressed No,
and then shut down normally.


Yeah, thats one reason for running ghost from the bootable
rescue floppy, it wont auto restart into XP in that situation
and thats a bit safer, the user cant select the wrong option.

Forgot to mention that after you had bought a floppy drive.

I then completely disconnected the old HD, left the new HD
in its middle position on the ATA cable, and added the jumper
to make the new HD master. I started, and Windows booted-up
properly. I'm now using only the new drive. The same message
about the hardware setting came up again, but I ignored.


XP should have asked for a reboot with a message
about new hardware. That can take some time to see tho.

Now I'm going to send this, turn off, add the
old drive, then start again. I'll see you then.


And then a week's drunken celebration after all those hassles |-)

Just dont try sleeping it off in a snow drift, you'll likely never wake up.


  #76  
Old January 12th 04, 07:59 AM
Nehmo Sergheyev
external usenet poster
 
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Default

- Nehmo -
Success! - almost complete,


- Rod Speed -
Dangerous business bragging before its all home and hosed |-)


- Nehmo -
So I got to thinking...Why should I reinstall the old drive at all? I
now have 62 GB of free space. I can store a n y t h i n g ! The old
drive is only 15GB, which was glorious its day, but that glory fleeted
away. It has XP on it matched to this machine - maybe I should keep it
unconnected and on a shelf. Then if someday I run into some malicious
code that turns the working drive into mush, well, then I have an
instant recourse. Somebody could even steal the whole computer (and if
they didn't take the stuff on the shelf too), and I'd *still* have not
lost a lot of my data - at least to the point of what I had earlier
today.

I'm convinced the old drive'll go in easily. And I might do it just for
the accomplishment. But I'm gonna sleep on it.

Anyway, Rod, _thank you_.


--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************



  #77  
Old January 12th 04, 08:17 AM
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Nehmo Sergheyev wrote in message
...

- Nehmo -
Success! - almost complete,


- Rod Speed -
Dangerous business bragging before its all home and hosed |-)


- Nehmo -
So I got to thinking...Why should I reinstall the old drive at all?


Why indeed with an old drive that small.

I now have 62 GB of free space. I can store a n y t h i n g !


Wont hold my magnum opus, or the HD video of
my latest exploits with sheep goats and camels.

And dont try claiming that you dont want either of them,
we can here the panting on the other side of the world.

The old drive is only 15GB, which was
glorious its day, but that glory fleeted away.


Yep, time to pension it off.

It has XP on it matched to this machine - maybe
I should keep it unconnected and on a shelf.


Yeah, I always do that for while with a
new drive, just in case it dies an early death.

Then if someday I run into some malicious code that turns the
working drive into mush, well, then I have an instant recourse.


Corse by then it will have got the sulks and killed itself...

Somebody could even steal the whole computer
(and if they didn't take the stuff on the shelf too),
and I'd *still* have not lost a lot of my data - at
least to the point of what I had earlier today.


And if the new drive dies very quickly too.

I'm convinced the old drive'll go in easily. And I might do
it just for the accomplishment. But I'm gonna sleep on it.


Yeah, I'd leave it out myself.

Anyway, Rod, _thank you_.


No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are all about.




  #78  
Old January 12th 04, 09:29 AM
Timothy Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

1) I have never used a "ute" other than MS's Disk Manager (to remove
partitions) and Drive Image (to clone a drive). Multi-boot is an optional
feature of Windows XP, and it appeared without the intervention of
any "utes" and without my direction.

2) How does one tell Drive Image to clone a partition and not a physical
drive? The user interface says it's copying a designated logical
drive to a designated physical disk. The procedure is referred to by
Drive Image as "copy drive". It's purpose is to make a bootable copy
of a active partition. Perhaps you are using terminology and procedures
peculiar to Norton Ghost and not to Drive Image.

*TimDaniels*



  #79  
Old January 12th 04, 10:04 AM
Rod Speed
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Default


Timothy Daniels wrote in
message ...

1) I have never used a "ute" other than MS's Disk Manager
(to remove partitions) and Drive Image (to clone a drive).


What did you do when the clone wouldnt boot ?

Multi-boot is an optional feature of Windows XP, and it appeared
without the intervention of any "utes" and without my direction.


Cant see that you didnt use anything at all when the clone wouldnt boot.

2) How does one tell Drive Image to clone a partition and not a physical drive?


You basically select a logical drive which is another way of
describing a partition, instead of a physical drive, as the source.

The user interface says it's copying a designated logical drive


Which isnt a physical drive.

to a designated physical disk. The procedure is
referred to by Drive Image as "copy drive". It's
purpose is to make a bootable copy of a active partition.


It can copy both a partition and a physical drive.

Perhaps you are using terminology and procedures
peculiar to Norton Ghost and not to Drive Image.


Nope. I mostly use DI because its got a better user interface.


  #80  
Old January 12th 04, 02:58 PM
chrisv
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"Rod Speed" wrote:

I now have 62 GB of free space. I can store a n y t h i n g !


Wont hold my magnum opus, or the HD video of
my latest exploits with sheep goats and camels.


Ahh... Now the truth comes out.

And dont try claiming that you dont want either of them,
we can here the panting on the other side of the world.


Or the de-panting.

 




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