Small Office Backup Solution Required

I work in a small office environment: 6 2K Workstations, NT Network,
2K Web Server, 2K Proxy Server, 2K File Server.

Currently have a 10/20GB HP Travan (Colorado) Tape drive backing up
the File Server with Tapeware. I need a better solution than this.

Requirements:
1) I need to be able to backup at least 40GB
2) I'd like to backup files on Client machines as well as Server
machines
3) I need a solid tape rotation schedule

I really don't know too much about tape backup in general (obviously),
so any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John

ArcServe, Backup Exec, and NetVault are the products most likely to meet
your needs cost-effectively. Of these, NetVault is the best, in my opinion,
ArcServe the worst (but all will work with proper care and feeding). If you
have a FastEthernet switched network, LTO-1 would fit nicely as a tape
technology. A small 8-tape stacker will run you about $7000. If you don't
mind switching tapes, an internal HP Ultiium 215 will run about $2400.
Without any special agents, like open file support, SQL server, etc, the
software can run you as little as $1200. Throwing in tapes and a decent
SCSI card, you could do this for as little as $4500, or as much as $12000.

REgarding tape rotation, that's entirely up to you. You set how often your
tapes get re-used, though the process can be automated with the software.
If you mean tape switching, then you need a stacker as mentioned above.

--paul

"J5" wrote in message
om...
I work in a small office environment: 6 2K Workstations, NT Network,
2K Web Server, 2K Proxy Server, 2K File Server.

Currently have a 10/20GB HP Travan (Colorado) Tape drive backing up
the File Server with Tapeware. I need a better solution than this.

Requirements:
1) I need to be able to backup at least 40GB
2) I'd like to backup files on Client machines as well as Server
machines
3) I need a solid tape rotation schedule

I really don't know too much about tape backup in general (obviously),
so any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John

Veritas and a SDLT = speed and reliability

(J5) wrote:

I work in a small office environment: 6 2K Workstations, NT Network,
2K Web Server, 2K Proxy Server, 2K File Server.

Currently have a 10/20GB HP Travan (Colorado) Tape drive backing up
the File Server with Tapeware. I need a better solution than this.

Requirements:
1) I need to be able to backup at least 40GB
2) I'd like to backup files on Client machines as well as Server
machines
3) I need a solid tape rotation schedule

I really don't know too much about tape backup in general (obviously),
so any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John

Howard Huntley Jr. MCP, MCSE
MicroComputer Systems Specialist

I use Arcserve Brightstor and have been extremely happy with it. I also use
an exabyte mammoth M2 8MM tape drive. Very fast (667 MB/Min backup and 770
MB.Min restore (if local) and over 500 MB/Min if remote.). The drive and
media are not cheap, but the cost of doing all your work over again far
outweighs the cost. Not to mention the time you save doing the tape backups.

In conjunction with this you can do what I do here. I installed a large IDE
drive in the tape backup server. I then installed a nice mirroring utility
called IDEM. This makes a complete mirror of the drive. I would think you
could do this with your workstations and backup this mirror rather than the
workstations. This way the users are not slowed down while a backup is
performed and the backup will go much faster since it does not go over the
network.

Just a liitle food for thought.

you might be the only person on the face of the earth ever to have been
happy with such a setup (ArcServe w/M2 hardware). Lately I see people
running away from their Exabyte libaries screaming with their hands in the
air like a scene from "The Towering Inferno".

--paul


"I-Hate-Spam" wrote in message
...
I use Arcserve Brightstor and have been extremely happy with it. I also
use
an exabyte mammoth M2 8MM tape drive. Very fast (667 MB/Min backup and 770
MB.Min restore (if local) and over 500 MB/Min if remote.). The drive and
media are not cheap, but the cost of doing all your work over again far
outweighs the cost. Not to mention the time you save doing the tape
backups.

Thanks for the responses.

I'm trying to get my head around a couple of backup issues:

1) Can data on client machines, or other network servers be backed up
along with local data?
2) If so, how is this data accessed on an individual tape?
3) Do the client machines need any configuration to allow this data
backup?

I know these questions are probably software specific, so any software
specific discussion would be appreciated.

Thanks,
J


Howard Huntley wrote in message . ..
Veritas and a SDLT = speed and reliability

(J5) wrote:

I work in a small office environment: 6 2K Workstations, NT Network,
2K Web Server, 2K Proxy Server, 2K File Server.

Currently have a 10/20GB HP Travan (Colorado) Tape drive backing up
the File Server with Tapeware. I need a better solution than this.

Requirements:
1) I need to be able to backup at least 40GB
2) I'd like to backup files on Client machines as well as Server
machines
3) I need a solid tape rotation schedule

I really don't know too much about tape backup in general (obviously),
so any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John

Howard Huntley Jr. MCP, MCSE
MicroComputer Systems Specialist

In article ,
J5 wrote:
Thanks for the responses.

I'm trying to get my head around a couple of backup issues:

1) Can data on client machines, or other network servers be backed up
along with local data?
2) If so, how is this data accessed on an individual tape?
3) Do the client machines need any configuration to allow this data
backup?

I know these questions are probably software specific, so any software
specific discussion would be appreciated.


If you've got a server you _really_ should be set up so that the
client machines use the server for My Documents, and whatever
constitutes business data in your company. Then you backup the user'd
data when you backup the server disk. If a client PC dies you have to
fix it, but meanwhile the user can do their work from another machine.

For reasone that are obviously marketing-driven, MS doesn't support
Outlook.PST files on network drives, but there are add-ons that copy
outlook.pst data to the server so it can also be backed up.

NTback.exe is a fine backup tool if you buy a decent tape drive.
(hint; Travan drives need not apply.) Look for DLT or LTO drives.

You should also invest in software that makes a server crash recovery
CD which restored enough of WIndows to allow you to restore everything
from tape.

Also look at Raid 1 mirroring for your server disk, so you can take a
vacation, but I ramble. :-)


Thanks,
J


Howard Huntley wrote in message
. ..
Veritas and a SDLT = speed and reliability

(J5) wrote:

I work in a small office environment: 6 2K Workstations, NT Network,
2K Web Server, 2K Proxy Server, 2K File Server.

Currently have a 10/20GB HP Travan (Colorado) Tape drive backing up
the File Server with Tapeware. I need a better solution than this.

Requirements:
1) I need to be able to backup at least 40GB
2) I'd like to backup files on Client machines as well as Server
machines
3) I need a solid tape rotation schedule

I really don't know too much about tape backup in general (obviously),
so any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John

Howard Huntley Jr. MCP, MCSE
MicroComputer Systems Specialist


--
Al Dykes
-----------

1) Can data on client machines, or other network servers be backed up
along with local data?

Any backup product that you have to buy will support backing up over the
network.

2) If so, how is this data accessed on an individual tape?

There are two data streams associated with a backup. The largest stream is
the actual data being backed up. The smaller stream has information about
the data being backed up (the client name, the directory name, the file
name, last mod date, where the data is on the tape, etc). This information
gets entered into a database, which can be queried to locate specific files,
directories and versions thereof to restore.

The second data stream can be rebuilt if lost by reading the tape's
contents. Since that stream can be resource intensive (it can turn into a
lot of database entries), some backup products allow you to turn off that
detailed cataloging that goes on by default.

Backup products usually back up clients one at a time (per tape device). So
a backup session of a client usually resides in a specific range of the
tape. But that doesn't matter. Backup products keep information regarding
the location of specific files in their catalogs.


3) Do the client machines need any configuration to allow this data
backup?

Yes, but client configuration is usually very simple. Many products have
"push" installs, where you don't even have to log in to the remote machine.
But some good ones don't, and for small sites it's a non-issue.


I know these questions are probably software specific, so any software
specific discussion would be appreciated.

If you could mention some backup products you're thinking about, I could
answer these questions specifically (how clients are installed, how backup
catalogs are managed, etc.)

Thanks,
J


Howard Huntley wrote in message
. ..
Veritas and a SDLT = speed and reliability

(J5) wrote:

I work in a small office environment: 6 2K Workstations, NT Network,
2K Web Server, 2K Proxy Server, 2K File Server.

Currently have a 10/20GB HP Travan (Colorado) Tape drive backing up
the File Server with Tapeware. I need a better solution than this.

Requirements:
1) I need to be able to backup at least 40GB
2) I'd like to backup files on Client machines as well as Server
machines
3) I need a solid tape rotation schedule

I really don't know too much about tape backup in general (obviously),
so any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John

Howard Huntley Jr. MCP, MCSE
MicroComputer Systems Specialist

Thanks for info. You are correct, as far as the client machines, I am
mainly concerned about PST files, as we are in no position to setup an
Exchange Server.

I am also concerned about the SQL databases and website data sitting
on other 2K Servers.

I really don't have the budget to couple a a tape drive with each
server!

John

(Al Dykes) wrote in message ...
In article ,
J5 wrote:
Thanks for the responses.

I'm trying to get my head around a couple of backup issues:

1) Can data on client machines, or other network servers be backed up
along with local data?
2) If so, how is this data accessed on an individual tape?
3) Do the client machines need any configuration to allow this data
backup?

I know these questions are probably software specific, so any software
specific discussion would be appreciated.


If you've got a server you _really_ should be set up so that the
client machines use the server for My Documents, and whatever
constitutes business data in your company. Then you backup the user'd
data when you backup the server disk. If a client PC dies you have to
fix it, but meanwhile the user can do their work from another machine.

For reasone that are obviously marketing-driven, MS doesn't support
Outlook.PST files on network drives, but there are add-ons that copy
outlook.pst data to the server so it can also be backed up.

NTback.exe is a fine backup tool if you buy a decent tape drive.
(hint; Travan drives need not apply.) Look for DLT or LTO drives.

You should also invest in software that makes a server crash recovery
CD which restored enough of WIndows to allow you to restore everything
from tape.

Also look at Raid 1 mirroring for your server disk, so you can take a
vacation, but I ramble. :-)


Thanks,
J


Howard Huntley wrote in message
. ..
Veritas and a SDLT = speed and reliability

(J5) wrote:

I work in a small office environment: 6 2K Workstations, NT Network,
2K Web Server, 2K Proxy Server, 2K File Server.

Currently have a 10/20GB HP Travan (Colorado) Tape drive backing up
the File Server with Tapeware. I need a better solution than this.

Requirements:
1) I need to be able to backup at least 40GB
2) I'd like to backup files on Client machines as well as Server
machines
3) I need a solid tape rotation schedule

I really don't know too much about tape backup in general (obviously),
so any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John

Howard Huntley Jr. MCP, MCSE
MicroComputer Systems Specialist

Thanks - I suppose I was trying to over analyse the process.

To be honest, I'm not sure what software, as I haven't even decided on
the tape technology yet!

Recommendations have been DDS4, LTO, DLT & AIT. I'm trying to
determine which is the best for my situation. I want something
economical, yet robust, but as a newbie to backup technology,
everything seems quite expensive.

I'm assuming (hoping) that any hardware solution that I choose, will
come with some type of backup software. Although, i've been warned
that these are usually stripped down versions of the full retail
packages.

Veritas Backup Exec & ArcServe Brightstor Backup have been recommended
to me over and over again, so I would definitely consider these.

I am finding it difficult to pin down solid information on backup
software/hardware. Can anyone recommend any recent reviews, or
discussions on this topic.

Thanks again,

John



"Paul" wrote in message news:lmZRb.2454$CJ1.178@lakeread01...
1) Can data on client machines, or other network servers be backed up
along with local data?

Any backup product that you have to buy will support backing up over the
network.

2) If so, how is this data accessed on an individual tape?

There are two data streams associated with a backup. The largest stream is
the actual data being backed up. The smaller stream has information about
the data being backed up (the client name, the directory name, the file
name, last mod date, where the data is on the tape, etc). This information
gets entered into a database, which can be queried to locate specific files,
directories and versions thereof to restore.

The second data stream can be rebuilt if lost by reading the tape's
contents. Since that stream can be resource intensive (it can turn into a
lot of database entries), some backup products allow you to turn off that
detailed cataloging that goes on by default.

Backup products usually back up clients one at a time (per tape device). So
a backup session of a client usually resides in a specific range of the
tape. But that doesn't matter. Backup products keep information regarding
the location of specific files in their catalogs.


3) Do the client machines need any configuration to allow this data
backup?

Yes, but client configuration is usually very simple. Many products have
"push" installs, where you don't even have to log in to the remote machine.
But some good ones don't, and for small sites it's a non-issue.


I know these questions are probably software specific, so any software
specific discussion would be appreciated.

If you could mention some backup products you're thinking about, I could
answer these questions specifically (how clients are installed, how backup
catalogs are managed, etc.)

Thanks,
J