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Should I go Athlon64 or Barton?
Franklin ) wrote...
Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700 MHz Duron system and now want something new. I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio editing. I just surf and do some small office activities. So what app is giving you the urge to upgrade? I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will build a new system instead. OK. A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than for Barton. Whatever you buy, you are buying into obsolescence. It's guaranteed with computers. All you can vary is how long before it is reached. If you keep this machine as long as you have presumably kept your Duron 700, then the difference in used value will be pretty negligible, IMHO. What's the difference between a Duron 700 and Athlon 1200 (say) today? Not a lot.... Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other than that? Umm. It's faster. If you have the urge to try a 64-bit OS then you can. It's good for bragging rights. Your hair will start to grow thicker, and more luxurient. Women will find you strangely attractive. Sorry. I've been reading too much marketing material. Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos for athlon64? more expensive memory? The whole system will cost a fair bit more, as you suggest. Mobos and memory will be pricier. My advice is to set some parameters for the upgrade. Either set a performance goal (I want it X times faster than current) and then investigate acheiving that for the minimum outlay, or set a financial limit (no more than UKP 500, say), and buy the fastest you can for that. Without a real idea of what you want you may end up disappointed, broke, or both. Ian -- Ian Riches Bedford, UK |
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In article ,
Ian Riches wrote: Franklin ) wrote... Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700 MHz Duron system and now want something new. I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio editing. I just surf and do some small office activities. So what app is giving you the urge to upgrade? I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will build a new system instead. OK. A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than for Barton. Whatever you buy, you are buying into obsolescence. It's guaranteed with computers. All you can vary is how long before it is reached. If you keep this machine as long as you have presumably kept your Duron 700, then the difference in used value will be pretty negligible, IMHO. What's the difference between a Duron 700 and Athlon 1200 (say) today? Not a lot.... What I've heard of Longhorn, the next full new release of Windows (2006?) will require a machine comparable to a dual Opteron in today's terms. In 2006 that machine will probably cost $500. (all of this is vapor, so don't hold me to it. Billy can shange hos mind at any time.) Buy a machine in the "sweet spot" for price performance today, which might be a midrange Athlon on a NIC/SOund/Video the motherboard machine. Spend the money you save on the system on a nice big LCD screen, and good sound. You'll be able to buy a "Longhorn Inside" machine 3 years from now for less than the cheap machine you buy today. It will probbaly be 64 bits, but why do you care ? My $0.02. Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other than that? Umm. It's faster. If you have the urge to try a 64-bit OS then you can. It's good for bragging rights. Your hair will start to grow thicker, and more luxurient. Women will find you strangely attractive. Sorry. I've been reading too much marketing material. Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos for athlon64? more expensive memory? The whole system will cost a fair bit more, as you suggest. Mobos and memory will be pricier. My advice is to set some parameters for the upgrade. Either set a performance goal (I want it X times faster than current) and then investigate acheiving that for the minimum outlay, or set a financial limit (no more than UKP 500, say), and buy the fastest you can for that. Without a real idea of what you want you may end up disappointed, broke, or both. Ian -- Ian Riches Bedford, UK -- Al Dykes ----------- adykes at p a n i x . c o m |
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Paul Hopwood wrote:
(Al Dykes) wrote: Buy a machine in the "sweet spot" for price performance today, which might be a midrange Athlon on a NIC/SOund/Video the motherboard machine. I'd agree with that. Look for price/performance rather than latest and greatest. The difference in performance between middle and top of the range will hardly be noticeable in most applications and for the difference in price you could probably afford to throw the PC away in a year and buy another, which will undoubtedly be more powerful than top-of-the-range today. If you just want something for word processing or to surf the 'Web get the cheapest you can find; even todays entry level is more than capable for business applications and Internet use. If you're a bit more demanding then head for somewhere just above mid-range, where the best price performance is typically a couple of options beneath the top level. Spend the money you save on the system on a nice big LCD screen, and good sound. Or save the money you'd spend a horrible big LCD screen, get a good CRT screen and get p*ssed on the spare change. yes - like I did this summer. upgrade from a 750 athlon to a 2500 athlon barton, with 256vidram nvidia 5700, 1 gig ram, dvd-burner/cd-burner, 22 inch Sony refurb CRT.............800 bucks. 200 for the monitor 600 bucks for a midrange computer is cheap. 64-bit will remain irrelvant for another 5 yrs. (or more). The on board memory controller of the athlon64 is nice (20-percent faster than barton on all things). But I suggest you buy cheap Barton now - then in three yrs you can buy cheap again, only that cheap will be a 3.5 Ghz Athlon64 with 4 gigs ram and 1-gig vid ram, blueray-burner. -- http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air -- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75) "It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law may say," Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense Department Lawyer Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo. If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or vote for the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the Republican Party. Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine "But I believe in torture and I will torture you." -An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with an Iraqi prisoner. "My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed, our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the freedom of our country. -Iraqi Mahdi fighter "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came. One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried, the soldier said: "'No, stop," -Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding. "the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian Zionists and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy." -Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister "Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said." Houston Chronicle 4/9/99 "Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to destabilize their country." Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004 "The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized to deal with this?'" - Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001. "On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because "diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor." Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey Bergner, Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman, William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had Baghdad on their minds." -philip (usenet) "I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam," -Richard Cheney, Kerry critic. "I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up and running - to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given back, if I can put it that way, or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they are going to allow us to exercise on their behalf and with their permission." - Powell 4/27/04 "We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days." On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good moments." - Rumsfeld 4/6/04 "I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread of freedom." ~ Bush the Crusader RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose? BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose. RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do? BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to do for the country. See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got changing times here in America, too., 2/8/04 "And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where I'm coming from, to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with war on my mind. - pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04 "Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." - Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03 "I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the Iraqis had nuclear weapons." - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03 "I think in this case international law stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)." - Richard Perle "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours." - Colin Powell February 24 2001 "We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful." "He threatens not the United States." "But I also thought that we had pretty much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have." 'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying "look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.' - Colin Powell February 26 2001 |
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I say hold out and wait for A64 price drop, and when the new 939 mobo's do
down in price, If you want try a XP-mobile 2500 pair it up with NFS-7 get that baby oced to 2500 MHZ , get dual channel ddr 400 ( you can also use it in you later A64 rig) these chips are known to par with P4 3.2 EE at that config and you can use the extra money for a better vid card or larger hardrive (maybe SATA Raptor@ 10000k RPM ) :P just my 2 cents. "gaffo" wrote in message m... Paul Hopwood wrote: (Al Dykes) wrote: Buy a machine in the "sweet spot" for price performance today, which might be a midrange Athlon on a NIC/SOund/Video the motherboard machine. I'd agree with that. Look for price/performance rather than latest and greatest. The difference in performance between middle and top of the range will hardly be noticeable in most applications and for the difference in price you could probably afford to throw the PC away in a year and buy another, which will undoubtedly be more powerful than top-of-the-range today. If you just want something for word processing or to surf the 'Web get the cheapest you can find; even todays entry level is more than capable for business applications and Internet use. If you're a bit more demanding then head for somewhere just above mid-range, where the best price performance is typically a couple of options beneath the top level. Spend the money you save on the system on a nice big LCD screen, and good sound. Or save the money you'd spend a horrible big LCD screen, get a good CRT screen and get p*ssed on the spare change. yes - like I did this summer. upgrade from a 750 athlon to a 2500 athlon barton, with 256vidram nvidia 5700, 1 gig ram, dvd-burner/cd-burner, 22 inch Sony refurb CRT.............800 bucks. 200 for the monitor 600 bucks for a midrange computer is cheap. 64-bit will remain irrelvant for another 5 yrs. (or more). The on board memory controller of the athlon64 is nice (20-percent faster than barton on all things). But I suggest you buy cheap Barton now - then in three yrs you can buy cheap again, only that cheap will be a 3.5 Ghz Athlon64 with 4 gigs ram and 1-gig vid ram, blueray-burner. -- http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air -- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75) "It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law may say," Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense Department Lawyer Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo. If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or vote for the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the Republican Party. Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine "But I believe in torture and I will torture you." -An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with an Iraqi prisoner. "My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed, our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the freedom of our country. -Iraqi Mahdi fighter "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came. One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried, the soldier said: "'No, stop," -Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding. "the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian Zionists and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy." -Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister "Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said." Houston Chronicle 4/9/99 "Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to destabilize their country." Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004 "The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized to deal with this?'" - Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001. "On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because "diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor." Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey Bergner, Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman, William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had Baghdad on their minds." -philip (usenet) "I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam," -Richard Cheney, Kerry critic. "I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up and running - to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given back, if I can put it that way, or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they are going to allow us to exercise on their behalf and with their permission." - Powell 4/27/04 "We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days." On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good moments." - Rumsfeld 4/6/04 "I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread of freedom." ~ Bush the Crusader RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose? BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose. RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do? BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to do for the country. See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got changing times here in America, too., 2/8/04 "And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where I'm coming from, to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with war on my mind. - pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04 "Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." - Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03 "I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the Iraqis had nuclear weapons." - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03 "I think in this case international law stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)." - Richard Perle "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours." - Colin Powell February 24 2001 "We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful." "He threatens not the United States." "But I also thought that we had pretty much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have." 'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying "look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.' - Colin Powell February 26 2001 |
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On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 04:15:13 -0600, "Raj" wrote:
I say hold out and wait for A64 price drop, and when the new 939 mobo's do down in price, If you want try a XP-mobile 2500 pair it up with NFS-7 get that baby oced to 2500 MHZ , get dual channel ddr 400 ( you can also use it in you later A64 rig) these chips are known to par with P4 3.2 EE at that config and you can use the extra money for a better vid card or larger hardrive (maybe SATA Raptor@ 10000k RPM ) :P just my 2 cents. *'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``' ΈτΆσ - Cull the O/T ****e '``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'* |
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gaffo wrote:
snip all Dude, your sig is a bummer, man. As much as I agree with your political views and frustrations entirely, your sig as it stands simply has no place on Usenet...it's very unpolite (meaning WAY too large). Also, at least in this NG (.chips) your political statements are falling more or less on deaf ears as this group is populated with a large number of SWM (stupid white men) and even a few VSWM (V = very). Get my drift? J. |
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jack wrote:
gaffo wrote: snip all Dude, your sig is a bummer, man. As much as I agree with your political views and frustrations entirely, your sig as it stands simply has no place on Usenet...it's very unpolite (meaning WAY too large). Also, at least in this NG (.chips) your political statements are falling more or less on deaf ears as this group is populated with a large number of SWM (stupid white men) and even a few VSWM (V = very). Get my drift? J. I understand. Tony Hill said same. Since you seem to be in agreement in my political views - then you may understand that these are Dark Times - not just for some of us but for the every existance of Liberty and America as we know it. I see Germany 1933, and as such I have a compulsion as an American Citizen and Patriot to speak out in any and all ways. A duty if you will. Feel free to *plonk* me it my sign offends. After Nov2 it won't matter - the sig will go then - regardless of if Liberty dies that day or lives. That sig started small two yrs ago and with each lie it grow like Pinocios nose. Now it is an obscenely obese sig. Sorry, if there were less lying from the WH and that Regime, the sig would be alot smaller......... peace be with you. -- http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air -- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75) "It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law may say," Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense Department Lawyer Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo. If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or vote for the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the Republican Party. Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine "But I believe in torture and I will torture you." -An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with an Iraqi prisoner. "My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed, our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the freedom of our country. -Iraqi Mahdi fighter "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came. One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried, the soldier said: "'No, stop," -Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding. "the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian Zionists and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy." -Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister "Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said." Houston Chronicle 4/9/99 "Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to destabilize their country." Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004 "The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized to deal with this?'" - Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001. "On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because "diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor." Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey Bergner, Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman, William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had Baghdad on their minds." -philip (usenet) "I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam," -Richard Cheney, Kerry critic. "I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up and running - to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given back, if I can put it that way, or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they are going to allow us to exercise on their behalf and with their permission." - Powell 4/27/04 "We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days." On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good moments." - Rumsfeld 4/6/04 "I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread of freedom." ~ Bush the Crusader RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose? BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose. RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do? BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to do for the country. See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got changing times here in America, too., 2/8/04 "And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where I'm coming from, to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with war on my mind. - pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04 "Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." - Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03 "I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the Iraqis had nuclear weapons." - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03 "I think in this case international law stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)." - Richard Perle "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours." - Colin Powell February 24 2001 "We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful." "He threatens not the United States." "But I also thought that we had pretty much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have." 'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying "look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.' - Colin Powell February 26 2001 |
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On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:58:07 +0200, "jack" wrote:
gaffo wrote: snip all Dude, your sig is a bummer, man. As much as I agree with your political views and frustrations entirely, your sig as it stands simply has no place on Usenet...it's very unpolite (meaning WAY too large). What's new - another left-wing windbag! Also, at least in this NG (.chips) your political statements are falling more or less on deaf ears as this group is populated with a large number of SWM (stupid white men) and even a few VSWM (V = very). Get my drift? One of those days, Jack (gaffo I dunno), you're going to waken up to discover that all your liberal politicians are really just right-wingers pretending to err, take care of you... as they umm, liberally dip their hand in your pocket.:-) C.F. New Jersey McGreevey - another corrupt little "liberal" **** gets caught err, dipping.guffaw Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
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In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips jack wrote:
Dude, your sig is a bummer, man. As much as I agree with your political views and frustrations entirely, A number of posters equate leftism with pacifism. Why? Kerry's desire to get [re]elected is stronger than any personal conviction he might hold. Unfortunately for him, the Republican Party has assumed the mantle of "law&order". So he has the task of proving himself strong, and very likely would be _more_ bellicose than Bush. Nixon could pull out of Vietnam and visit China. Americans _will not_ tolerate a weak leader. Look how Jimmy Carter, one of the most well-intentioned and intelligent presidents ever, lost to Ronald Reagan. He appeared weak on Iran and the economy. GWHBush lost on the same ground. your sig as it stands simply has no place on Usenet...it's very unpolite (meaning WAY too large). Also, at least Agreed. in this NG (.chips) your political statements are falling more or less on deaf ears as this group is populated with a large number of SWM (stupid white men) and even a few VSWM (V = very). "Sufficiently advanced technology gets mistaken for magic" [Clarke?] Sufficiently profound thinking is similarly feared. -- Robert |
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