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Why are HDD platters harder than the floppy/ZIP discs?



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 21st 09, 10:38 PM posted to alt.computer,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.computer.security,alt.privacy,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
[email protected]
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Posts: 96
Default Why are HDD platters harder than the floppy/ZIP discs?

"Rod Speed" wrote:

Whatever you like to call it. It has nothing to do with head
calibration, it's the zone of the disk under the ramp where the heads approach the disk and establish a stable flying
height.


Wrong. There was no ramp initially, that came later to avoid
stiction which happens due to the very smooth platter and head


No, it was the glue (used to keep the magnetic media on the aluminum
platters), would get sticky when hot, when the heads parked
themselves, the glue would cool down and the heads would become stuck.
Mostly a Seagate problem.

and the heads never ever deliberately contact the platter anymore,
because the heads dont get anywhere hear the platter from the
ramp until the platters are up to rotation speed and so the last
thing you want is a head crash. They certainly dont ever
deliberately 'the head hits the disk in order to find it'.


You should take the cover off a hard drive and watch how the heads
operate, you turn off the HD the heads move very quickly to the inner
sector, where they sit, as the heads need air to float or lift
themselves up - can't remember the effect that causes this - but it
was used on those old 8" floppies (in plastic cases).

The floppies would sag at the outside edge, and this effect would
bring the edges up and the floppy even. (No, not centrifugal force)

I've never seen a ramp, when I take a HD apart it's always the same
the heads are as close to the spindle as they can get, and all the
heads are sitting on the platters.

--

Amazing Street Basketball Tricks
http://www.youtube.com/v/fYlTrl6Cwwc
  #22  
Old June 22nd 09, 02:52 AM posted to alt.computer,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.computer.security,alt.privacy,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Rod Speed
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Default Why are HDD platters harder than the floppy/ZIP discs?

wrote
Rod Speed wrote


Whatever you like to call it. It has nothing to do with head
calibration, it's the zone of the disk under the ramp where the
heads approach the disk and establish a stable flying height.


Wrong. There was no ramp initially, that came later to avoid
stiction which happens due to the very smooth platter and head


No, it was the glue (used to keep the magnetic media on the aluminum
platters), would get sticky when hot, when the heads parked themselves,
the glue would cool down and the heads would become stuck.


Utterly mangled all over again. There was never any 'glue
(used to keep the magnetic media on the aluminum platters)'

Mostly a Seagate problem.


and the heads never ever deliberately contact the platter anymore,
because the heads dont get anywhere hear the platter from the
ramp until the platters are up to rotation speed and so the last
thing you want is a head crash. They certainly dont ever
deliberately 'the head hits the disk in order to find it'.


You should take the cover off a hard drive and watch how the heads operate,


You should with a modern drive.

you turn off the HD the heads move very quickly to the inner sector,


Not anymore.

where they sit, as the heads need air to float or lift themselves up


The heads actually fly.

- can't remember the effect that causes this


The heads are flying.

- but it was used on those old 8" floppies (in plastic cases).


Wrong again. 8" floppys were not in plastic cases,
they were just bigger versions of 51/4" floppy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fl...sk_2009_G1.jpg

The floppies would sag at the outside edge, and this
effect would bring the edges up and the floppy even.


Utterly mangled all over again. they were just bigger versions of 51/4" floppys.

(No, not centrifugal force)


They just rotate inside the jacket, just like 51/4" floppys do.

I've never seen a ramp,


You need to try a modern drive.

when I take a HD apart it's always the same the heads are as close to
the spindle as they can get, and all the heads are sitting on the platters.


You need to try a modern drive.


  #23  
Old June 22nd 09, 05:08 AM posted to alt.computer,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.computer.security,alt.privacy,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
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Posts: 96
Default Why are HDD platters harder than the floppy/ZIP discs?

"Rod Speed" wrote:

Wrong. There was no ramp initially, that came later to avoid
stiction which happens due to the very smooth platter and head


No, it was the glue (used to keep the magnetic media on the aluminum
platters), would get sticky when hot, when the heads parked themselves,
the glue would cool down and the heads would become stuck.


Utterly mangled all over again. There was never any 'glue
(used to keep the magnetic media on the aluminum platters)


I had read and been informed that it was the glue, apparently it was
due to "lubricants used to coat the platters"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiction#Hard_disk_drives

And you are right about the Ramps they are addressed in the link as
well - I do need to open up a new HD, but don't have a bad one; lot's
of old drives, less than 2gigs mostly
--

Amazing Street Basketball Tricks
http://www.youtube.com/v/fYlTrl6Cwwc
  #24  
Old June 22nd 09, 07:04 AM posted to alt.computer,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.computer.security,alt.privacy,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Rod Speed
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Posts: 8,559
Default Why are HDD platters harder than the floppy/ZIP discs?

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote


Wrong. There was no ramp initially, that came later to avoid
stiction which happens due to the very smooth platter and head


No, it was the glue (used to keep the magnetic media on the aluminum
platters), would get sticky when hot, when the heads parked themselves,
the glue would cool down and the heads would become stuck.


Utterly mangled all over again. There was never any 'glue
(used to keep the magnetic media on the aluminum platters)


I had read and been informed that it was the glue,


And you're so stupid that you cant work out what is mindless silly **** and what isnt.

apparently it was due to "lubricants used to coat the platters"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiction#Hard_disk_drives

Yep, for when the heads did land on the platters. They dont anymore.

And you are right about the Ramps they are addressed in
the link as well - I do need to open up a new HD, but don't
have a bad one; lot's of old drives, less than 2gigs mostly


Yeah, tho the newest of those may well have the ramps.

No point tho, wikepedia is right on that and you can find plenty of
documentation on them from the hard drive manufacturers too like
http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/9076679E3EE4003E86256FAB005825FB/$file/LoadUnload_white_paper_FINAL.pdf


  #25  
Old June 22nd 09, 04:16 PM posted to alt.computer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
- Bobb -
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Posts: 179
Default Why are HDD platters harder than the floppy/ZIP discs?

wrote in message
...
Here's something I found of interest (same link):
"The platters of a common hard drive are not completely sealed off
from the outside as many people think. Therefore, you can damage an
HDD by running it at too high of an altitude where there is less air
pressure; since the heads may stay in contact with the platters or
skip up and down!" (the same force is involved or lacking due to air
pressure)

Most drives have a warning on drive - like he
http://www.sg2buy.com/productpic/hdd251.jpg
look lower left corner - to the right of the circle is a warning - "do not
block breather hole"


  #26  
Old June 22nd 09, 05:16 PM posted to alt.computer,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.computer.security,alt.privacy,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
[email protected]
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Posts: 96
Default Why are HDD platters harder than the floppy/ZIP discs?

"Rod Speed" wrote:

I had read and been informed that it was the glue,


And you cant work out what is mindless silly **** and what isnt.


Nope, it was the answer for years on stiction, I am one of many who
accepted that.
--

Amazing Street Basketball Tricks
http://www.youtube.com/v/fYlTrl6Cwwc
  #28  
Old June 23rd 09, 06:40 AM posted to alt.computer,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.computer.security,alt.privacy,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
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Posts: 96
Default Why are HDD platters harder than the floppy/ZIP discs?

"Rod Speed" wrote:


you didnt even notice that hard drive
platters dont have the magnetic material glued to the platters at all.


The heads use lead to write to the platters? Your kind of a jerk and
I'm done with your replies I have followed your post and did have a
bit of respect for you, but man that's gone.

I noticed your one of those to stupid to use a spell checker.

Take the last word, I won't be seeing it.






--

Amazing Street Basketball Tricks
http://www.youtube.com/v/fYlTrl6Cwwc
  #29  
Old June 23rd 09, 07:11 AM posted to alt.computer,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.computer.security,alt.privacy,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
JK Jones
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Posts: 5
Default Why are HDD platters harder than the floppy/ZIP discs?

wrote
Rod Speed wrote


you didnt even notice that hard drive platters dont
have the magnetic material glued to the platters at all.


The heads use lead to write to the platters?


The magnetic material isnt glued to the substrate, ****wit.

Its vaccuum deposited onto the substrate instead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_platter

reams of your puerile **** flushed where it belongs

Take the last word, I won't be seeing it.


Only in your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasyland, ****wit child.


  #30  
Old June 23rd 09, 10:21 AM posted to alt.computer,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.computer.security,alt.privacy,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
JK Jones
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Posts: 5
Default Why are HDD platters harder than the floppy/ZIP discs?

wrote
Rod Speed wrote


I noticed your one of those to stupid to use a spell checker.


Fat lot of good yours does, ****wit child.


 




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