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#11
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92mm vs. 90mm Case Fan
On 5/1/2011 6:52 AM, Ben Myers wrote:
On Apr 30, 11:16 pm, wrote: Ben Myers wrote: On Apr 30, 11:30 am, wrote: I'm looking to upgrade the case fan in my Studio XPS 8100. The existing case fan is a Foxconn PVA092G12M. There's scant information available from a Google search; this is either a 90mm fan or a 92mm fan. My question is: Does it matter whether I use 90mm or 92mm? It's 2 lousy millimeters. I'm only asking because there are hardly any 90mm fans on Newegg - and none with 3 pins, but there are tons of 92mm models. Daddy I don't understand "upgrade". A fan that blows more cubic feet per minute? Or simply a replacement fan for one that does not work as well any more? If the latter, just get another new one per its Dell part number... Ben Myers Lol ... I knew somebody would eventually ask me "why are you even doing this?" And the answer is: I, uh, don't really have a good reason. I guess I'm trying for a little more quiet. I replaced Dell's stock video card, and that made my computer noticeably quieter. And case fans are cheap and easy to install, so I figured give it a shot. The Foxconn blows 45 CFM. If I can find something real quiet that blows as much air, I'll try it. My next project is an upgraded power supply. In a larger sense, all this is preparation for building my first ever computer. Daddy I forgot that the Studio XPS 8100 is a tower computer, not a laptop! Your reasoning makes sense for a tower or desktop. It would be at least mildly deranged to try to replace a fan with anything other than a stock item for a LAPTOP. But pay attention to the connectors and wires for fan replacement in a Dell... Ben Myers i believe that the 90mm vs 92mm issue is simply due to how they are measured, either by the outer dimension or by the mounting holes. in other words as far as i know they are the same and mount the same. also, i think the three pin fan connector on the 8100 is industry standard with the white wire on pin three. however may dell case fans are not wired the same as generic fans resulting in and error at start up about the fan not being detected. the size is not critical but the the wiring is. |
#12
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92mm vs. 90mm Case Fan
Christopher Muto wrote:
On 5/1/2011 6:52 AM, Ben Myers wrote: On Apr 30, 11:16 pm, wrote: Ben Myers wrote: On Apr 30, 11:30 am, wrote: I'm looking to upgrade the case fan in my Studio XPS 8100. The existing case fan is a Foxconn PVA092G12M. There's scant information available from a Google search; this is either a 90mm fan or a 92mm fan. My question is: Does it matter whether I use 90mm or 92mm? It's 2 lousy millimeters. I'm only asking because there are hardly any 90mm fans on Newegg - and none with 3 pins, but there are tons of 92mm models. Daddy I don't understand "upgrade". A fan that blows more cubic feet per minute? Or simply a replacement fan for one that does not work as well any more? If the latter, just get another new one per its Dell part number... Ben Myers Lol ... I knew somebody would eventually ask me "why are you even doing this?" And the answer is: I, uh, don't really have a good reason. I guess I'm trying for a little more quiet. I replaced Dell's stock video card, and that made my computer noticeably quieter. And case fans are cheap and easy to install, so I figured give it a shot. The Foxconn blows 45 CFM. If I can find something real quiet that blows as much air, I'll try it. My next project is an upgraded power supply. In a larger sense, all this is preparation for building my first ever computer. Daddy I forgot that the Studio XPS 8100 is a tower computer, not a laptop! Your reasoning makes sense for a tower or desktop. It would be at least mildly deranged to try to replace a fan with anything other than a stock item for a LAPTOP. But pay attention to the connectors and wires for fan replacement in a Dell... Ben Myers i believe that the 90mm vs 92mm issue is simply due to how they are measured, either by the outer dimension or by the mounting holes. in other words as far as i know they are the same and mount the same. also, i think the three pin fan connector on the 8100 is industry standard with the white wire on pin three. however may dell case fans are not wired the same as generic fans resulting in and error at start up about the fan not being detected. the size is not critical but the the wiring is. I read elsewhere that the measurement (e.g., 92mm) is taken from the center of one screw to the center of either adjacent screw (not diagonally adjacent.) In any event, I am presuming that the tolerances here do not measure down to one or two millimeters, so I will buy 90mm or 92mm, whichever is the more suitable fan for me. The case fan in my Studio XPS 8100 uses a three pin connector. This means it reports its RPMs to the BIOS, but the fan speed cannot be controlled by the BIOS; that's where a fourth wire comes in. Something I've learned about replacing parts in an OEM computer: Most consumers who buy individual parts (beyond RAM or a hard drive) are either building their own gaming PC or doing substantial modding and/or overclocking, so replacement parts are largely marketed to this crowd: Power supplies have long connectors, case fans have bright LEDs, RAM has heat spreaders, etc. If all you want is to kick up your performance a notch or two, prepare to be overwhelmed. Anisotropic filtering? Sheesh! Daddy |
#13
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92mm vs. 90mm Case Fan
"Daddy" wrote in message ... Christopher Muto wrote: On 5/1/2011 6:52 AM, Ben Myers wrote: On Apr 30, 11:16 pm, wrote: Ben Myers wrote: On Apr 30, 11:30 am, wrote: I'm looking to upgrade the case fan in my Studio XPS 8100. The existing case fan is a Foxconn PVA092G12M. There's scant information available from a Google search; this is either a 90mm fan or a 92mm fan. My question is: Does it matter whether I use 90mm or 92mm? It's 2 lousy millimeters. I'm only asking because there are hardly any 90mm fans on Newegg - and none with 3 pins, but there are tons of 92mm models. Daddy I don't understand "upgrade". A fan that blows more cubic feet per minute? Or simply a replacement fan for one that does not work as well any more? If the latter, just get another new one per its Dell part number... Ben Myers Lol ... I knew somebody would eventually ask me "why are you even doing this?" And the answer is: I, uh, don't really have a good reason. I guess I'm trying for a little more quiet. I replaced Dell's stock video card, and that made my computer noticeably quieter. And case fans are cheap and easy to install, so I figured give it a shot. The Foxconn blows 45 CFM. If I can find something real quiet that blows as much air, I'll try it. My next project is an upgraded power supply. In a larger sense, all this is preparation for building my first ever computer. Daddy I forgot that the Studio XPS 8100 is a tower computer, not a laptop! Your reasoning makes sense for a tower or desktop. It would be at least mildly deranged to try to replace a fan with anything other than a stock item for a LAPTOP. But pay attention to the connectors and wires for fan replacement in a Dell... Ben Myers i believe that the 90mm vs 92mm issue is simply due to how they are measured, either by the outer dimension or by the mounting holes. in other words as far as i know they are the same and mount the same. also, i think the three pin fan connector on the 8100 is industry standard with the white wire on pin three. however may dell case fans are not wired the same as generic fans resulting in and error at start up about the fan not being detected. the size is not critical but the the wiring is. I read elsewhere that the measurement (e.g., 92mm) is taken from the center of one screw to the center of either adjacent screw (not diagonally adjacent.) In any event, I am presuming that the tolerances here do not measure down to one or two millimeters, so I will buy 90mm or 92mm, whichever is the more suitable fan for me. The case fan in my Studio XPS 8100 uses a three pin connector. This means it reports its RPMs to the BIOS, but the fan speed cannot be controlled by the BIOS; that's where a fourth wire comes in. Something I've learned about replacing parts in an OEM computer: Most consumers who buy individual parts (beyond RAM or a hard drive) are either building their own gaming PC or doing substantial modding and/or overclocking, so replacement parts are largely marketed to this crowd: Power supplies have long connectors, case fans have bright LEDs, RAM has heat spreaders, etc. If all you want is to kick up your performance a notch or two, prepare to be overwhelmed. Anisotropic filtering? Sheesh! Daddy I replaced the case - processor fan in my xps 8100 with this one from Amazon. Sorry for the large text just pasted it from their site. Perfect fit, just cut the wires and used the old MB plug that lets the fan sensor work. Wire color matches, so it was no trouble. Sam Antec TriCool 92mm DBB Case Fan with 3-Spd Switch 3/4-Pin & 3-Pin Monitoring |
#14
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92mm vs. 90mm Case Fan
Hi!
The case fan in my Studio XPS 8100 uses a three pin connector. This means it reports its RPMs to the BIOS, but the fan speed cannot be controlled by the BIOS; that's where a fourth wire comes in. Actually, it can. The age-old trick (from the time that PCs started to include hardware capable of such things) is to drive the fan from a pulse-width-modulation controller. This works by varying the ratio of on time to off time...longer "on" pulses let the fan spin faster, while longer off pulses slow it down. Do this frequently enough and the illusion of "smooth" fan speed control can be maintained across the board. Dell doesn't do that *in most cases*. Instead, the Dell fans typically have a thermal sensing bulb poking out somewhere around the hub. This means the fan itself--and not any other part of the computer--controls its own operating speed. The newer four wire fans do things a little differently. The first three wires do as they've always done and serve to provide voltage input and tachometer output signals. The fourth wire actually accepts input data from the fan controller on the computer's mainboard and then the fan's electronics figure out how best to arrive at the desired rotational speed. The newest Dell systems (basically anything that is built around a BTX motherboard design) forgo the thermal sensing bulb and instead gather temperature from some point on the motherboard. Exactly where that is would be rather hard to say--apparently Dell uses custom chips (the function itself is embedded in the LPCIO IC) and apparently the internal workings of such chips are Great Secrets. (I actually asked SMsC about these chips and was told that they are protected under a nondisclosure agreement. Even their own employees cannot look up information on them. Evidently Dell--or whoever does the logic design of Dell's motherboards--thinks that a part used in basically every type of PC made in the recent past--is really something to keep a tight lid on. Whatever.) There are no obvious thermal sensors on the board. Most boards don't even seem to have places for them--the Dimension E521 board is a notable exception to this. It has solder spots for sensors. People who have managed to get some data on the SMsC LPCIO chips that Dell uses say that hardware monitoring and fan control aren't supported. That leaves me to guess that Dell uses the core temperature from the CPU to decide how hot the rest of the system is and then adjusts the fan speed accordingly, possibly by just writing the desired speed control data to the fan's control electronics over the fourth wire. I'd really like to know for sure. I've been contacted by people within Dell in times past--I wish someone would pick up on one of my posts along this subject and tell me what I'd like to know without all the red tape. William |
#15
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92mm vs. 90mm Case Fan
William R. Walsh wrote:
Hi! The case fan in my Studio XPS 8100 uses a three pin connector. This means it reports its RPMs to the BIOS, but the fan speed cannot be controlled by the BIOS; that's where a fourth wire comes in. Actually, it can. The age-old trick (from the time that PCs started to include hardware capable of such things) is to drive the fan from a pulse-width-modulation controller. This works by varying the ratio of on time to off time...longer "on" pulses let the fan spin faster, while longer off pulses slow it down. Do this frequently enough and the illusion of "smooth" fan speed control can be maintained across the board. Dell doesn't do that *in most cases*. Instead, the Dell fans typically have a thermal sensing bulb poking out somewhere around the hub. This means the fan itself--and not any other part of the computer--controls its own operating speed. The newer four wire fans do things a little differently. The first three wires do as they've always done and serve to provide voltage input and tachometer output signals. The fourth wire actually accepts input data from the fan controller on the computer's mainboard and then the fan's electronics figure out how best to arrive at the desired rotational speed. The newest Dell systems (basically anything that is built around a BTX motherboard design) forgo the thermal sensing bulb and instead gather temperature from some point on the motherboard. Exactly where that is would be rather hard to say--apparently Dell uses custom chips (the function itself is embedded in the LPCIO IC) and apparently the internal workings of such chips are Great Secrets. (I actually asked SMsC about these chips and was told that they are protected under a nondisclosure agreement. Even their own employees cannot look up information on them. Evidently Dell--or whoever does the logic design of Dell's motherboards--thinks that a part used in basically every type of PC made in the recent past--is really something to keep a tight lid on. Whatever.) There are no obvious thermal sensors on the board. Most boards don't even seem to have places for them--the Dimension E521 board is a notable exception to this. It has solder spots for sensors. People who have managed to get some data on the SMsC LPCIO chips that Dell uses say that hardware monitoring and fan control aren't supported. That leaves me to guess that Dell uses the core temperature from the CPU to decide how hot the rest of the system is and then adjusts the fan speed accordingly, possibly by just writing the desired speed control data to the fan's control electronics over the fourth wire. I'd really like to know for sure. I've been contacted by people within Dell in times past--I wish someone would pick up on one of my posts along this subject and tell me what I'd like to know without all the red tape. William You analysis is very interesting, as usual. This is just anecdotal - based on my observations - but I do not sense that my case fan is varying in speed. But then, I don't really rock out my hardware in the first place. Daddy |
#16
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92mm vs. 90mm Case Fan
On Wed, 04 May 2011 15:01:41 -0400, Daddy wrote:
William R. Walsh wrote: Hi! The case fan in my Studio XPS 8100 uses a three pin connector. This means it reports its RPMs to the BIOS, but the fan speed cannot be controlled by the BIOS; that's where a fourth wire comes in. Actually, it can. The age-old trick (from the time that PCs started to include hardware capable of such things) is to drive the fan from a pulse-width-modulation controller. This works by varying the ratio of on time to off time...longer "on" pulses let the fan spin faster, while longer off pulses slow it down. Do this frequently enough and the illusion of "smooth" fan speed control can be maintained across the board. Dell doesn't do that *in most cases*. Instead, the Dell fans typically have a thermal sensing bulb poking out somewhere around the hub. This means the fan itself--and not any other part of the computer--controls its own operating speed. The newer four wire fans do things a little differently. The first three wires do as they've always done and serve to provide voltage input and tachometer output signals. The fourth wire actually accepts input data from the fan controller on the computer's mainboard and then the fan's electronics figure out how best to arrive at the desired rotational speed. The newest Dell systems (basically anything that is built around a BTX motherboard design) forgo the thermal sensing bulb and instead gather temperature from some point on the motherboard. Exactly where that is would be rather hard to say--apparently Dell uses custom chips (the function itself is embedded in the LPCIO IC) and apparently the internal workings of such chips are Great Secrets. (I actually asked SMsC about these chips and was told that they are protected under a nondisclosure agreement. Even their own employees cannot look up information on them. Evidently Dell--or whoever does the logic design of Dell's motherboards--thinks that a part used in basically every type of PC made in the recent past--is really something to keep a tight lid on. Whatever.) There are no obvious thermal sensors on the board. Most boards don't even seem to have places for them--the Dimension E521 board is a notable exception to this. It has solder spots for sensors. People who have managed to get some data on the SMsC LPCIO chips that Dell uses say that hardware monitoring and fan control aren't supported. That leaves me to guess that Dell uses the core temperature from the CPU to decide how hot the rest of the system is and then adjusts the fan speed accordingly, possibly by just writing the desired speed control data to the fan's control electronics over the fourth wire. I'd really like to know for sure. I've been contacted by people within Dell in times past--I wish someone would pick up on one of my posts along this subject and tell me what I'd like to know without all the red tape. William You analysis is very interesting, as usual. This is just anecdotal - based on my observations - but I do not sense that my case fan is varying in speed. But then, I don't really rock out my hardware in the first place. If you have the Dell utilities (which I can get to by doing F12 on startup, and choosing utilities), one or more of them varies the fan speed. It says "running at slow speed", "running at high speed" and you can hear the difference. At least I can. Daddy |
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