Stonewalling: ( Ooops... Nvidia was and is cheating on 3dmark03 after all)

John Russell wrote:


So why should you believe a test program? Nvidia's arguement is that the
coding of this test does not reflect the advice given by Nvidia on how to
code for their cards. With only 2 major GPU makers it's rediculous to
argue that real games wouldn't use Nvidia's advice. I want games to run as
fast as possible by using both Nvidia and ATI's advice. I'm not interested
in how a
few Finns decide to code a benchmark So many people feel they can't trust
Nvidia. Believing that does not make 3dmark a decent test of how cards
play games!
If you don't want time and effort wasted on 3dmark, then campaign for real
games to be used for tests. It's the fact people place so much importance
on 3dmark results which is creating this situation.

I agree with 100% of that. It's not that I even care about 3dmark scores, I
always skip over them in the reviews. They have to be taken with a strong
pinch of salt at the best of times.
If the Detonator drivers had refused to run 3dmark, saying instead:

"3dmark detected. nVidia do not believe this to be a representative test for
benchmarking and comparison, please run something else."

- well, that would have been OK by me. It's awkward, but it's honest. If
they'd run with their "optimisations" but popped up a window explaining
what they'd done - that would have been OK too.
Whereas instead they cheated. They took the exam, but they sneakily altered
the questions to make them easier.
So I do agree with you that nVidia have a legitimate grievance, but they
still acted dishonestly and deceitfully under pressure.

"with the deliberate intention to deceive consumers and reviewers about
the performance of an entire product line"

The opposite was true. It is futuremark who are decieving everyone as to
how
good cards are at running games. Nvidia intent was to make the test
reflect
how nvidia advise coders to code games

John, this statement makes it clear that you are not aware of what
Nvidia was doing with these cheats. One example: one major cheat was to
introduce clipping planes that cut out everything in the scene not covered
by the camera. This only works when the camera path is fixed and known
beforehand, in other words, it will not work in actual gameplay! It's only
possible purpose is to deliberately cheat on the benchmark.

Nvidia intent was to make the test reflect
how nvidia advise coders to code games, and hence how fast their cards
would
be running games.

There is now some evidence that Nvidia is cheating on the builtin
timedemos that games contain. This is not optimizing real gameplay, but
cheating for artificially high benchmark scores. I hope to see articles
soon on hardware websites investigating this non-3dmark cheating further.

rms

"ZOD" wrote in message
news
Prove it.

Prove they didn't....hehe


Hot damn, you got me. Actually, I'm glad I don't. I don't want to defend
their behavior, but the sky isn't falling on nvidia, not over this issue at
least.

Derek Wildstar wrote:
"ZOD" wrote in message
news
Prove it.

Prove they didn't....hehe


Hot damn, you got me. Actually, I'm glad I don't. I don't want to
defend their behavior, but the sky isn't falling on nvidia, not over
this issue at least.

Thats 'cos the sky has been clipped away!!

:-P

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a string...

"ZOD" wrote in message
news
Prove it.

Prove they didn't....hehe


Hot damn, you got me. Actually, I'm glad I don't. I don't want to defend
their behavior, but the sky isn't falling on nvidia, not over this issue at
least.

really...the Fx 5900 are selling as fast as they get in stock.

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:48:05 +0100, "John Russell"
wrote:

They did when they left the 3dmark support group. No one listened.
You can't be up front after you're caught. No one will listen.

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:29:53 GMT, "Derek Wildstar"
wrote:

More effort should be put into innovation and optimization, the leading
players are too busy dicking around with 3dmark, and they are both guilty of
disappointing their customers.

Problem is, in the enthusiast press arena, those companies live and
die by benchmark results. So what are they to do? Both ATI and
Nvidia would be dumb to simply ignore 3DMark, so they spend time
optimizing for it. If review sites would ignore the synthetic
benchmarks, and gauge performance based on actual games, then we would
all benefit.

Thats 'cos the sky has been clipped away!!
:-P

OH man, Quake3 bad quality sky flashback...hehe

Hot damn, you got me. Actually, I'm glad I don't. I don't want to
defend
their behavior, but the sky isn't falling on nvidia, not over this issue
at
least.

Hey...it never hurt ATI in the long run...hehe

really...the Fx 5900 are selling as fast as they get in stock.

All 7 of them?
Hehe....