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Adaptec 2410SA SATA Raid 5 : is it a safe choice



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 25th 04, 10:25 PM
Meurig Freeman
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Malcolm Weir wrote:
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 03:30:25 GMT, "Ron Reaugh"
wrote:

snip


In the event of a
server failure the only way to ensure the integrity of your data is have
battery backed up cache.



Toto, the following is why ignoring this Ron "character" is good
advice:


The only way to ensure that the data held at that instant in the cache(could
be none) is not lost is to have some sort of battery support. A UPS is
often sufficient. Losing some data in the cache does NOT mean that you have
lost all integrity...just a small amout of the most recent data.


snip

Without meaning to take sides, would someone mind explaining a situation
whereby a general UPS would not be sufficient to protect data integrity
in the event of a power failure? (and I don't mean things like the UPS
catching fire, though I do understand this is a very real possibility).

--
Meurig
  #12  
Old September 25th 04, 10:46 PM
Ron Reaugh
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"Meurig Freeman" wrote in message
...
Malcolm Weir wrote:
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 03:30:25 GMT, "Ron Reaugh"
wrote:

snip


In the event of a
server failure the only way to ensure the integrity of your data is

have
battery backed up cache.



Toto, the following is why ignoring this Ron "character" is good
advice:


The only way to ensure that the data held at that instant in the

cache(could
be none) is not lost is to have some sort of battery support. A UPS is
often sufficient. Losing some data in the cache does NOT mean that you

have
lost all integrity...just a small amout of the most recent data.


snip

Without meaning to take sides, would someone mind explaining a situation
whereby a general UPS would not be sufficient to protect data integrity
in the event of a power failure?


A micro Weir meteroid hits the UPS wire because its so far away from the
RAID controller maybe.



  #13  
Old September 25th 04, 11:49 PM
Meurig Freeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ron Reaugh wrote:
"Meurig Freeman" wrote in message
...

Malcolm Weir wrote:

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 03:30:25 GMT, "Ron Reaugh"
wrote:


snip


In the event of a
server failure the only way to ensure the integrity of your data is


have

battery backed up cache.


Toto, the following is why ignoring this Ron "character" is good
advice:



The only way to ensure that the data held at that instant in the


cache(could

be none) is not lost is to have some sort of battery support. A UPS is
often sufficient. Losing some data in the cache does NOT mean that you


have

lost all integrity...just a small amout of the most recent data.

snip

Without meaning to take sides, would someone mind explaining a situation
whereby a general UPS would not be sufficient to protect data integrity
in the event of a power failure?



A micro Weir meteroid hits the UPS wire because its so far away from the
RAID controller maybe.


Damn, hadn't considered that one... anyone recomend any good websites
selling meteroid sheilding?

--
Meurig
(http://xboxmods.meurig.com - modded xbox for sale)
  #14  
Old September 25th 04, 11:59 PM
Ron Reaugh
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Default


"Meurig Freeman" wrote in message
...
Ron Reaugh wrote:
"Meurig Freeman" wrote in message
...

Malcolm Weir wrote:

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 03:30:25 GMT, "Ron Reaugh"
wrote:


snip


In the event of a
server failure the only way to ensure the integrity of your data is


have

battery backed up cache.


Toto, the following is why ignoring this Ron "character" is good
advice:



The only way to ensure that the data held at that instant in the


cache(could

be none) is not lost is to have some sort of battery support. A UPS

is
often sufficient. Losing some data in the cache does NOT mean that

you

have

lost all integrity...just a small amout of the most recent data.

snip

Without meaning to take sides, would someone mind explaining a situation
whereby a general UPS would not be sufficient to protect data integrity
in the event of a power failure?



A micro Weir meteroid hits the UPS wire because its so far away from the
RAID controller maybe.


Damn, hadn't considered that one... anyone recomend any good websites
selling meteroid sheilding?


Weir-d must know one.


  #15  
Old September 26th 04, 11:42 AM
Jesper Monsted
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Posts: n/a
Default

Meurig Freeman wrote in
:

Without meaning to take sides, would someone mind explaining a
situation whereby a general UPS would not be sufficient to protect
data integrity in the event of a power failure? (and I don't mean
things like the UPS catching fire, though I do understand this is a
very real possibility).


It's always safe to take sides with the people disagreeing with Ron.

There are a lot of other things that can go wrong, besides the power
failing. UPS, PSU or cable failures (like your cleaning lady hitting the
cable with her broom) will all take out your non-battery-backed cache. In
any case, i'd always go for battery-backed (write) cache or no cache at
all.


--
/Jesper Monsted
  #16  
Old September 26th 04, 11:43 AM
Jesper Monsted
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Meurig Freeman wrote in
:

Damn, hadn't considered that one... anyone recomend any good websites
selling meteroid sheilding?


Try the people who sold Ron his tin foil hats.

--
/Jesper Monsted
  #17  
Old September 26th 04, 06:12 PM
Thor Lancelot Simon
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
Meurig Freeman wrote:
Malcolm Weir wrote:
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 03:30:25 GMT, "Ron Reaugh"
wrote:

snip


In the event of a
server failure the only way to ensure the integrity of your data is have
battery backed up cache.



Toto, the following is why ignoring this Ron "character" is good
advice:


The only way to ensure that the data held at that instant in the cache(could
be none) is not lost is to have some sort of battery support. A UPS is
often sufficient. Losing some data in the cache does NOT mean that you have
lost all integrity...just a small amout of the most recent data.


snip

Without meaning to take sides, would someone mind explaining a situation
whereby a general UPS would not be sufficient to protect data integrity
in the event of a power failure? (and I don't mean things like the UPS
catching fire, though I do understand this is a very real possibility).


Your system power supply fails (not uncommon, actually).

Some bozo knocks the system power cord loose.

Someone hits the reset switch or power switch on the front of the
machine, whether accidentally or through lack of understanding.

The operating system crashes and reboots the machine without politely
telling the RAID card to flush its cache.

A UPS won't save your butt in any of these cases. Battery backup on
the RAID card will.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon
But as he knew no bad language, he had called him all the names of common
objects that he could think of, and had screamed: "You lamp! You towel! You
plate!" and so on. --Sigmund Freud
  #18  
Old September 26th 04, 08:08 PM
Bill Todd
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Meurig Freeman" wrote in message
...

....

Without meaning to take sides, would someone mind explaining a situation
whereby a general UPS would not be sufficient to protect data integrity
in the event of a power failure? (and I don't mean things like the UPS
catching fire, though I do understand this is a very real possibility).


Ever seen your PC reboot on a power glitch that your
more-than-adequately-sized home UPS should have ridden through without
notice? I have. And this doesn't happen only with home units: it has been
known to happen with server-room UPSs (though of course should be far less
common there).

The bottom line is that if you're going to use RAID-style redundancy, any
non-disk elements of the system that are trusted to hold supposedly 'stable'
data should be just as reliable as the redundant disks themselves. This
means that you'd need to mirror cached data in double ECC caches, using
separate power supplies and UPSs (or cache-level batteries), to obtain
similar levels of availability.

- bill



  #19  
Old September 26th 04, 09:53 PM
Ron Reaugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Jesper Monsted" wrote in message
4.163...
Meurig Freeman wrote in
:

Without meaning to take sides, would someone mind explaining a
situation whereby a general UPS would not be sufficient to protect
data integrity in the event of a power failure? (and I don't mean
things like the UPS catching fire, though I do understand this is a
very real possibility).


It's always safe to take sides with the people disagreeing with Ron.


Only for the trolls.

There are a lot of other things that can go wrong, besides the power
failing. UPS, PSU or cable failures (like your cleaning lady hitting the
cable with her broom)


Sounds like a Weir micrometeroite...rumor has it that they ride brooms.


  #20  
Old September 26th 04, 09:53 PM
Ron Reaugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Thor Lancelot Simon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Meurig Freeman wrote:
Malcolm Weir wrote:
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 03:30:25 GMT, "Ron Reaugh"
wrote:

snip


In the event of a
server failure the only way to ensure the integrity of your data is

have
battery backed up cache.


Toto, the following is why ignoring this Ron "character" is good
advice:


The only way to ensure that the data held at that instant in the

cache(could
be none) is not lost is to have some sort of battery support. A UPS is
often sufficient. Losing some data in the cache does NOT mean that you

have
lost all integrity...just a small amout of the most recent data.

snip

Without meaning to take sides, would someone mind explaining a situation
whereby a general UPS would not be sufficient to protect data integrity
in the event of a power failure? (and I don't mean things like the UPS
catching fire, though I do understand this is a very real possibility).


Your system power supply fails (not uncommon, actually).

Some bozo knocks the system power cord loose.

Someone hits the reset switch or power switch on the front of the
machine, whether accidentally or through lack of understanding.

The operating system crashes and reboots the machine without politely
telling the RAID card to flush its cache.

A UPS won't save your butt in any of these cases. Battery backup on
the RAID card will.


Clueless jibber. So batteries on the cached controller suddenly make the OS
polite?
Where's the one about space aliens in your list? It's so easy to dismiss
these zealots.


 




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