help with motherboard choice

S.Boardman wrote:
"Ben Pope" wrote in message
...
snip!

Check the price of the convertors before you dive in... They're not
simple passive devices, I think they're about £15/drive, but yes, they
will allow your P-ATA drives to run off the SATA interface... whether or
not you can keep your existing RAID partition, I don't know.

Ben
Just when I thought I had it sorted *anguish* I don't mind paying the £15
for each cable. I don't wan't to mess up the hard drives, though. Please
can you explain this?

Different RAID adapter - possibly deifferent way of configuring a partition
over two drives.

I don't know, I've never done it, but I wouldn't expect it to work, of
course... there COULD be a standard, and both parties MAY have followed it.

I would suspect that you may have to back the partition up, change
controller, repartition and then restore.

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

"Ben Pope" wrote in message
...
S.Boardman wrote:
"Ben Pope" wrote in message
...
snip!

Check the price of the convertors before you dive in... They're not
simple passive devices, I think they're about £15/drive, but yes, they
will allow your P-ATA drives to run off the SATA interface... whether
or
not you can keep your existing RAID partition, I don't know.

Ben
Just when I thought I had it sorted *anguish* I don't mind paying the
£15
for each cable. I don't wan't to mess up the hard drives, though. Please
can you explain this?

Different RAID adapter - possibly deifferent way of configuring a
partition
over two drives.

I don't know, I've never done it, but I wouldn't expect it to work, of
course... there COULD be a standard, and both parties MAY have followed
it.

I would suspect that you may have to back the partition up, change
controller, repartition and then restore.

I've never used RAID either, but from what I've heard you have a moderate
chance of success if:
(a) You aren't doing anything fancy, AND
(b) Both controller chipsets are from the same manufacturer (and ideally the
same product line)
Otherwise, it's unlikely to work (though there's always a chance).

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open

Michael Brown wrote:
I've never used RAID either, but from what I've heard you have a moderate
chance of success if:
(a) You aren't doing anything fancy, AND

Whats "fancy"?

(b) Both controller chipsets are from the same manufacturer (and ideally
the same product line)

Well yeah, that would be the best case, but I think he'll be going from
Promise to SiI

Otherwise, it's unlikely to work (though there's always a chance).

Indeed. And probably a similar chance of corruption too.

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

Ben Pope wrote:
Michael Brown wrote:
I've never used RAID either, but from what I've heard you have a
moderate chance of success if:
(a) You aren't doing anything fancy, AND

Whats "fancy"?

I may be completely wrong about this (see previous disclaimer ) but I
thought that some RAID controllers offered (non-standard) features like
dynamic load balancing (where it'd decide over time where the optimal place
to put data was, based on past usage), multiple logical drives, etc. These
obviously would not transfer well between different manufacturers.

[...]

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:16:41 +0100, "S.Boardman"
wrote:



Adaptors that allow you to use parallel ATA drives on a Serial ATA
controller. Be sure to get ones that support optical drives (ATAPI,
presumably) if you want that (which is not what you've described, but
worth
mentioning)

This looks like it will solve the problem, then... I can use the old IDE
RAID drives on a new SATA RAID motherboard, is that right?
In this case, would the MSI K7N2 Delta-FISR be a good choice? I picked it
as it's an MSI nForce2 board, has SATA RAID, and in a vain attempt to future
proof, 400MHz FSB.

At this point in time, trying to go "futureproof" on a socket A is an
attempt made in vain, there is no worthwhile upgrade course for that
motherboard after your currently-planned CPU. Eventually slighlty
faster CPUs will be more affordable, but will be much slower the the
other upgrade options at that time, and your memory isn't spec'd for
DDR400 either, so it'd also need replaced.

IMHO, the first thing you ought do is buy another PATA drive so you
can make backups of the current RAID. Odds are it will not be
transferrible to the new SATA RAID controller, you will have to back
it up, create the new array, and copy to the new array.

I'd still try upgrading your present motherboard with the new CPU.
The different between the old and new motherboard will be very little
performancewise, just running the old board at DDR333 will help, but
again it depends on whether your video card is happy, or if there's
some bios bug... could be tried with new CPU and then a new board
purchased if it didn't work properly.


Dave

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:08:02 +0100, S.Boardman wrote:

I want to upgrade my cpu to an XP2800+. I've double checked and found that I
can't use my current board MSI KT3 Ultra.

You can most certainly run a 2800+ (or faster) on the board. you just have
to know how.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html

"Wes Newell" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:08:02 +0100, S.Boardman wrote:

I want to upgrade my cpu to an XP2800+. I've double checked and found
that I
can't use my current board MSI KT3 Ultra.

You can most certainly run a 2800+ (or faster) on the board. you just have
to know how.

Unfortunately, I'm not that technical, and didn't understand most of what it
was going on about (assuming you're talking about the link given early on
in the thread). When I got my current setup, I used the MSI overclocking
tool, but ending up reducing to just one step up (FSB 134? =1681Mhz
XP2000+) because it caused the machine to hang, and it was getting too hot.
I've left it like that because the memory wasn't the best.
If it's simple, I'll give it a go :-)
--
Susan

"kony" wrote in message
...
snip!

At this point in time, trying to go "futureproof" on a socket A is an
attempt made in vain, there is no worthwhile upgrade course for that
motherboard after your currently-planned CPU. Eventually slighlty
faster CPUs will be more affordable, but will be much slower the the
other upgrade options at that time, and your memory isn't spec'd for
DDR400 either, so it'd also need replaced.

IMHO, the first thing you ought do is buy another PATA drive so you
can make backups of the current RAID. Odds are it will not be
transferrible to the new SATA RAID controller, you will have to back
it up, create the new array, and copy to the new array.

I'd still try upgrading your present motherboard with the new CPU.
The different between the old and new motherboard will be very little
performancewise, just running the old board at DDR333 will help, but
again it depends on whether your video card is happy, or if there's
some bios bug... could be tried with new CPU and then a new board
purchased if it didn't work properly.


I can't do anything with the HDs until I get a new hs/fan. I'm not looking
forward to having to take the machine apart to put that in. Unless making a
XP2800+ work in my current m/board is easy, I'll get the XP2600+ which is
supposed to be the maximum it will take.

I also want to change the striping I've got now to mirroring, how do I do
that? I currently have 2 x 20Gb identical drives, as far as I can see each
on a different channel. How do I change it to the other?
I think I'd need to get a three 40Gb drives. One to copy the current data
to, and set the other two up as mirrored, and copy the data back.
Can I use the same drives for SATA RAID later, or are they special ones? I
have seen SATA drives listed to buy seperately from ATA. If I can use them
again, I might get 60Gb instead.
When partitioning mirrored drives, is it done both at the same time, or each
one seperately? I use Partition Magic.
--
Susan

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:56:43 +0100, "S.Boardman"
wrote:


"kony" wrote in message
.. .
snip!

At this point in time, trying to go "futureproof" on a socket A is an
attempt made in vain, there is no worthwhile upgrade course for that
motherboard after your currently-planned CPU. Eventually slighlty
faster CPUs will be more affordable, but will be much slower the the
other upgrade options at that time, and your memory isn't spec'd for
DDR400 either, so it'd also need replaced.

IMHO, the first thing you ought do is buy another PATA drive so you
can make backups of the current RAID. Odds are it will not be
transferrible to the new SATA RAID controller, you will have to back
it up, create the new array, and copy to the new array.

I'd still try upgrading your present motherboard with the new CPU.
The different between the old and new motherboard will be very little
performancewise, just running the old board at DDR333 will help, but
again it depends on whether your video card is happy, or if there's
some bios bug... could be tried with new CPU and then a new board
purchased if it didn't work properly.


I can't do anything with the HDs until I get a new hs/fan. I'm not looking
forward to having to take the machine apart to put that in.

If your power supply has long enough leads, you might be able to
unscrew it at the back and sort-of hang it off to the side or prop it
up, then be able to access the heatsink clip to remove it and install
the new one. It's your call, it's a bit more difficult to do it that
way but certainly possible, it was how I usually did it before I made
that mangled-screwdriver tool I mentioned in a previous post. The
main thing is to take your time, be able to see what you're doing.


Unless making a
XP2800+ work in my current m/board is easy, I'll get the XP2600+ which is
supposed to be the maximum it will take.

I don't have experience with that particular board, but in general a
KT333 board will run a CPU with 166MHz, DDR333 FSB. Basically it's
just a matter of leaving the FSB at 133MHz, installing the new CPU,
then going into the BIOS and upping the FSB speed (or by jumper,
whichever applies), AND making sure the memory is set to same,
synchronous speed, not "+33". Just now I researched your board and
saw reports of it working even with the Bartons... you might as well
max out the board with a Barton then. See he
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W16036346


I also want to change the striping I've got now to mirroring, how do I do
that?

You can't really change it. You have to copy off the data, then
delete the array, change to mirroring, effectively erasing it, then on
your fresh/empty mirror, copy back the data. Once you set up a RAID 0
there's nothing that can or should be done to it, which is part of the
reason why they're such a PITA unless you have plenty of backup
storage too.


I currently have 2 x 20Gb identical drives, as far as I can see each
on a different channel. How do I change it to the other?
I think I'd need to get a three 40Gb drives. One to copy the current data
to, and set the other two up as mirrored, and copy the data back.

You'd only need two new drives for the array... copy the data from the
old drives to one of the new... Not moving it, just copy it. Now,
depending on the abilities of the RAID controller (and it's bios-code)
you may be able to assign the new drive as one of a mirrored-set, and
choose to "rebuild" the array onto the second new drive, and you're
done. If you can't rebuild the array onto a second drive, or define
the array without wiping out the data, then you'd need to copy the
data again if necessary, making sure the new drive has the data
intact, and erase the old drives' array, then create a new array on
them as a span (if you want to reuse the present motherboard then
create a single volume spanning both old drives) or if you want a new
motherboard, create two single-drive spans, one on each drive. Either
way, you then have 40GB of space to copy back the data. Single-drive
spans are, AFAIK, transferrible to any other IDE controller the same
as if it weren't RAID-related at all, meaning it could be attached to
a new board's IDE port to copy the data to the larger drive array.

After confirming that the data is now again intact on the 2 old drives
as a span(s), you have both new drives available to create the
mirrored array on them.

Can I use the same drives for SATA RAID later, or are they special ones?

There's nothign special about SATA RAID, you just need the SATA
adapter another poster mentioned previously.

I
have seen SATA drives listed to buy seperately from ATA. If I can use them
again, I might get 60Gb instead.

You need at least one PATA drive, to be able to copy off your data
from the array on your current motherboard, then to use that new PATA
drive on a SATA controller, you'll need an adapter. The second drive
could be SATA.

When partitioning mirrored drives, is it done both at the same time, or each
one seperately? I use Partition Magic.

Once you have defined the drive-set as a mirror, that array is treated
as a single drive.


Dave

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:38:49 +0100, S.Boardman wrote:


"Wes Newell" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:08:02 +0100, S.Boardman wrote:

I want to upgrade my cpu to an XP2800+. I've double checked and found
that I
can't use my current board MSI KT3 Ultra.

You can most certainly run a 2800+ (or faster) on the board. you just have
to know how.

Unfortunately, I'm not that technical, and didn't understand most of what it
was going on about (assuming you're talking about the link given early on
in the thread). When I got my current setup, I used the MSI overclocking
tool, but ending up reducing to just one step up (FSB 134? =1681Mhz
XP2000+) because it caused the machine to hang, and it was getting too hot.
I've left it like that because the memory wasn't the best.
If it's simple, I'll give it a go :-)

Then your best choice would probably be a 2500+ (barton core). It has a
derfault 11 multiplier and your FSB should be set to 166Mhz. You will need
ram capable of PC2700 speeds to run in sync with the FSB. All said and
done, you should be able to run it at 12.5x166. There are many people
running Barton core AMD cpu's in KT333 chipset boards. No mods should be
required, but you need PC2700 capable ram and a 5:2:1 bus divisor (should
be setting in bios) to run a 166MHz FSB. A Google groups search for kt3
2500+ will also get you info that KT3 board will run a 2500+ - 3000+
Barton.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html