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Real-world ink longevity test



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 20th 07, 05:35 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Michael Johnson
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Posts: 403
Default Real-world ink longevity test

NotMe wrote:
"measekite" wrote in message
t...
|
|
| Michael Johnson wrote:
| TJ wrote:
| I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for
| his funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color
| photo. I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper,
| and HP ink cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with
| aftermarket ink. Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our
| living room wall, framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass.
| While it is a bright room, the spot where the print hangs does not
| receive direct sunlight at any time.
|
| So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print
| looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully
| expect it to look good for years to come.
|
| Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines
| would have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically
| before it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth.
| With just a moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good,
| long, time. With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.
|
| We have hundreds upon hundreds of photos printed with after market ink
| and they ALL look as good as the day they were printed. Based on my
| personal experience, any difference that exists between OEM and after
| market ink used in Canon printers is inconsequential to the average
user.
|
| That is not true.

And you know this how?


He knows I speak the truth but is too stubborn to admit it. People that
buy OEM ink insure that I will pay a very low price for my next printer.
He does serve a useful purpose because I like inexpensive inkjet
printers.
  #22  
Old August 20th 07, 05:36 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Michael Johnson
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Posts: 403
Default Real-world ink longevity test

wrote:
On Aug 19, 10:40 pm, Michael Johnson wrote:
DK wrote:
TJ wrote:
I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his
funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo.
I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink
cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink.
Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall,
framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright
room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at
any time.
So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks
as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to
look good for years to come.
Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a
moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time.
With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.
Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there is
anyhting wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am aware
of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster,
sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson,
Canon).

Every single print I have produced using after market ink has not faded
at all. Now I don't store them on the dash board of my truck but I also
don't hermetically seal them either. The problem with the tests I have
reviewed is they usually don't test the better after market inks. Also,
many of these tests are done to have a predetermined outcome which is
why they use the more inferior after market inks to test against the OEM
inks. Besides, if I ever do have a print that fades then all I need to
do is print another one. I am willing to get 95%+ of durability of OEM
ink to save 85% of its cost. A good trade, IMO.


I just responded on a different post the price difference-

$2.17 in ink for a borderless 8.5x11 vs .17¢.

How is that for saving? (using a continuous ink system)


Refillers save even more than I do.
  #23  
Old August 20th 07, 05:53 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Michael Johnson
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Posts: 403
Default Real-world ink longevity test

DK wrote:
Michael Johnson wrote:
DK wrote:
TJ wrote:
I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his
funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo.
I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink
cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink.
Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall,
framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright
room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at
any time.

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks
as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to
look good for years to come.

Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a
moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time.
With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.
Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there is
anyhting wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am aware
of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster,
sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson,
Canon).

Every single print I have produced using after market ink has not faded
at all. Now I don't store them on the dash board of my truck but I also
don't hermetically seal them either. The problem with the tests I have
reviewed is they usually don't test the better after market inks. Also,
many of these tests are done to have a predetermined outcome which is
why they use the more inferior after market inks to test against the OEM
inks.


Not true when it comes to nifty-stuff.com user tests.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading.php
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading1.php


I didn't say all tests were bad just most of them. Any test of anything
printed in a magazine is subject to scrutiny, IMO.

Besides, if I ever do have a print that fades then all I need to
do is print another one. I am willing to get 95%+ of durability of OEM
ink to save 85% of its cost. A good trade, IMO.


Totally agree. That's why I refill, too. But the fact remains - for some
reason imitators thus far can never get it right.


I can only go on what my own personal experience is with after market
ink that I actually use. I have never had a print that faded. Maybe I
would if I kept them in a different environment. Also, any prints I
make have a digital copy on hard drive and DVD backups which never
degrade. Fading just isn't an issue for me and I am probably no
different than 95% of the population. The touting of longevity is more
for marketing bragging rights than real world usefulness for the at home
inkjet printer user, IMO.
  #24  
Old August 20th 07, 06:20 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
measekite
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,433
Default Real-world ink longevity test



NotMe wrote:
"DK" wrote in message
...
| TJ wrote:

| I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his
| funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo.
| I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink
| cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink.
| Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall,
| framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright
| room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at
| any time.
|
| So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks
| as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to
| look good for years to come.
|
| Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
| have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
| it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a
| moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time.
| With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.
|
| Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there is
| anything wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am aware
| of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster,
| sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson,
| Canon).

I would question the test. Recall that the tobacco companies published
studies out the kazoo that smoking was not harmful.
They even had physicians offering personal endorsements.

FWIW even hand painted oils deteriorate, the rate depends on the more on the
environment and care than on the materials used.


Sounds like you are concerned that aftermarket ink will give you cancer
if you smoke it.


  #25  
Old August 20th 07, 06:23 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
measekite
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,433
Default Real-world ink longevity test



wrote:

On Aug 19, 11:18 pm, "NotMe"
wrote:



"DK"
wrote in message ... | TJ wrote: | >I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his | >funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo. | >I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink | >cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink. | >Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall, | >framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright | >room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at | >any time. | > | >So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks | >as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to | >look good for years to come. | > | >Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would | >have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before | >it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a | >moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time. | >With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly. | | Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there is | anything wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am aware | of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster, | sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson, | Canon). I would question the test. Recall that the tobacco companies published studies out the kazoo that smoking was not harmful. They even had physicians offering personal endorsements. FWIW even hand painted oils deteriorate, the rate depends on the more on the environment and care than on the materials used.



If its your livelyhood, and you are selling your work- buy original ink cartridges (unless you are sure you are doing the right thing with reliable ink, of course)

There is no reliable ink other than OEM.  You never know because they do not tell you and when they change suppliers you do not know.


Otherwise for those of us who print as a hobby- Screw the printer companies- ask some of us who feel the ink is reliable for a recommendation on where to buy. And if someone tells you you will loose your warranty on your brand new $69 printer-


And what about those who print real photographs that are 11x14 and up where the printer costs between $500 and $2500.


ask him to buy the next set of cartridges at $80 or ask him if he doesnt mind if you throw the printer in his back yard, (as the land fill sites are too full of cartridges and printers) when it is out of ink so you can buy a new one at $69 and save $20. Printers are not like cell phones- you have a choice!


I chose my phone and chose my carrier.


Please vote for a choice!

  #26  
Old August 20th 07, 06:27 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
measekite
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,433
Default Real-world ink longevity test



DK wrote:

snip
The basic result in all tests
has been very consistent: third party inks, even the better ones like
Image Specialists (e.g., apparently = MIS and Fromulabs),
suck in comparison to OEM when it comes to fade resistance.

That is correct. Those who say otherwise either cannot see or their
photos are so bad to begin with they cannot tell the difference.
Mind you, I refill. If anything, I am *very* surprised why big OEM
companies so consistently come ahead of less known. Obviously,
Canon does not make its inks...


But they do. They design, engineer, formulate and monitor quality of
all ink that bears their name and they make sure it is produced to their
specifications. They have QA people making sure of this.
DK

  #27  
Old August 20th 07, 06:37 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
measekite
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,433
Default Real-world ink longevity test



Michael Johnson wrote:
DK wrote:
Michael Johnson wrote:
DK wrote:
TJ wrote:
I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father
for his funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and
a color photo. I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium
Picture Paper, and HP ink cartridges that I had refilled numerous
times with aftermarket ink. Since the funeral, the print has been
hanging on our living room wall, framed in a dollar store frame
and behind glass. While it is a bright room, the spot where the
print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at any time.

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print
looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully
expect it to look good for years to come.

Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines
would have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading
practically before it finishes drying. Nothing could be further
from the truth. With just a moderate amount of care, aftermarket
ink can last a good, long, time. With poor care, even OEM ink will
fade quickly.
Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there
is anyhting wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I
am aware of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade
faster, sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors
(Epson, Canon).
Every single print I have produced using after market ink has not
faded at all. Now I don't store them on the dash board of my truck
but I also don't hermetically seal them either. The problem with
the tests I have reviewed is they usually don't test the better
after market inks. Also, many of these tests are done to have a
predetermined outcome which is why they use the more inferior after
market inks to test against the OEM inks.


Not true when it comes to nifty-stuff.com user tests.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading.php
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading1.php


I didn't say all tests were bad just most of them. Any test of
anything printed in a magazine is subject to scrutiny, IMO.

Besides, if I ever do have a print that fades then all I need to do
is print another one. I am willing to get 95%+ of durability of OEM
ink to save 85% of its cost. A good trade, IMO.


Totally agree. That's why I refill, too. But the fact remains - for
some reason imitators thus far can never get it right.


I can only go on what my own personal experience is with after market
ink that I actually use. I have never had a print that faded. Maybe
I would if I kept them in a different environment. Also, any prints I
make have a digital copy on hard drive and DVD backups which never
degrade.


It is very obvious that you are totally misinformed. DVD, CD, and any
other electronic media degrades over time. The dye on this media does
degrade and every 5 to 10 years it is pudent to recopy and thing that
has worth. Maybe you say this because nothing you have has any worth.
I do not know. But do not post this misinformation. Do some research
on Google and you will find these facts out.
Fading just isn't an issue for me and I am probably no different than
95% of the population. The touting of longevity is more for marketing
bragging rights than real world usefulness for the at home inkjet
printer user, IMO.

  #28  
Old August 20th 07, 07:48 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Barry Watzman
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Posts: 2,148
Default Real-world ink longevity test

One of the problems with "aftermarket inks" is that you can't make any
statements about them. There are so many of them, and they are so
different (from as good as (perhaps in a few cases even better than) OEM
to pure junk) that no meaningful statement applies to all of them. So
you can't really say something like "tests ... would have you believe
that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before it finishes
drying. Nothing could be further from the truth." That may be a true
statement for the particular aftermarket ink that you used, but it's
definitely not true of all aftermarket inks. And therein likes one of
the problems: You don't know what you are getting or what it's
characteristics are.

TJ wrote:
I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his
funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo.
I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink
cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink.
Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall,
framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright
room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at
any time.

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks
as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to
look good for years to come.

Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a
moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time.
With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.

TJ

  #29  
Old August 21st 07, 02:01 AM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Frank
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Posts: 68
Default Real-world ink longevity test

Michael Johnson wrote:

TJ wrote:

I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for
his funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color
photo. I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and
HP ink cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket
ink. Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room
wall, framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a
bright room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct
sunlight at any time.

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print
looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully
expect it to look good for years to come.

Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just
a moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long,
time. With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.



We have hundreds upon hundreds of photos printed with after market ink
and they ALL look as good as the day they were printed. Based on my
personal experience, any difference that exists between OEM and after
market ink used in Canon printers is inconsequential to the average user.


This is all true.
Frank
  #30  
Old August 21st 07, 02:01 AM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Frank
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default Real-world ink longevity test

measekite wrote:


That is not true.

---------------------------
You are a liar!
Frank
 




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